Michael Jackson: Victim or child molester?

[WriterDom]

I think he is guilty, but will beat the rap. I think they should have waited until they had a smoking gun. Or penis in this case.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I think he is guilty, but will beat the rap. I think they should have waited until they had a smoking gun. Or penis in this case.

He is definitely guilty of something. On the other hand, a shakedown is not out of the question. That's been happening more and more often these days. Look at Kobe!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting thing is I heard a woman on US television talking about how she sleeps in the bed with her 3 children and has since the first was born 8 years ago, and no matter how hard her husband and others try and move her back to the marital bedroom, she admits she prefers sleeping with her children simply because she wants to be with them every minute she can. She also admitted it has placed strain on her relationship and that she is not avoiding her husband or sex with him. Now I think if it were a father saying the same thing he would be in a similar place to MJ right now. I think the biggest problem is other people's minds and how they interpret things from their own perspective, often one corrupted by the society we live in. For my own self I think a society which has problems with sex and sexuality, but sees nothing wrong with citizens bearing arms and violence in more movies and TV shows than not, has a serious problem. No wonder they cannot understand love and compassion without corruption.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Michael Jackson Jokes

Funny you should mention that considering what i got in email lately.

Late-Night Jokes About Michael Jackson and the Child Molestation Case

Compiled by Daniel Kurtzman

"The judge in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial selected 250 candidates for the jury pool, which Jackson himself has selected 20 for the kiddie pool." --Amy Poehler, Saturday Night Live's "Weekend Update"

"According to a Gallup poll, 17% of those asked still have a favorable opinion of Michael Jackson. That may not sound like much, but it's still more than any of the Democratic candidates running for president." —Jay Leno

"Michael Jackson now using the internet to communicate with his fans. Which makes sense, that’s how he met most of 'em." —Jay Leno

"After turning himself in yesterday, Michael Jackson was placed in handcuffs. I think he helped his case when he asked 'These are neat, do they come in smaller sizes?" —Jay Leno

"Michael Jackson announced this week that the Neverland Ranch is no longer home to him. He said he can’t go back there. Which of course is really bad news for the kids locked in the crawlspace." —Jay Leno

"Now he is out on bail — again he still doesn't get it. When a reporter asked him what he is going to do now, he said, 'I'm going to Disneyland.'" —Jay Leno

"Early today Michael met with his priest — not for spiritual advice, they went on a double date." —Jay Leno

"Michael Jackson turned himself into authorities today and now the court may take away his kids. Don't worry, Michael's working on a deal where he can dangle them on the weekends." —Craig Kilborn

"The saddest part of this Michael Jackson scandal is that all of this could have been avoided if he just stuck to grabbing his own crotch." —Craig Kilborn

"Michael Jackson was arrested yesterday. According to the Santa Barbara Police, Michael Jackson is 5'11 and only weighs 120 pounds. Michael is able to keep his weight down because he only orders off the children's menu." —Conan O'Brien

"Michael says he is going to fight these charges tooth and nail — because those are the only real body parts he has left." —Jay Leno

"Several celebrities have stepped forward to defend Michael Jackson — Woody Harrelson, Roman Polanski, Pete Townsend." —Craig Kilborn

"I can sum up Michael Jackson's legal defense in three words: dead man moonwalking." —Craig Kilborn

"Yesterday an arrest warrant was issued for Michael Jackson and today by mistake cops picked up Diana Ross." —Jay Leno

" I guess they got Michael on that new law — 3 tykes and you're out." —Jay Leno

"Did you hear who Michael Jackson's lawyer is? He hired Scott Peterson's attorney Mark Geragos. Geragos' slogan is 'no client too sleazy.' See Michael's smart cause he knows that next to Scott Peterson he looks innocent." —Jay Leno

"Police swarmed all over the Neverland Ranch for 12 hours, about 60 investigators and found a lot of items that needed explaining. Like the wedding photo with Lisa Marie Presley." —David Letterman

"His bail was set at $3 million dollars because he is considered a flight risk. Cause, you know, he could run off anywhere and blend right in." —David Letterman

"If you've been watching television today, so it begins, the Michael Jackson mini-series kicked off. The glee, the salivation in the news people. The CNN logo had an erection. If you looked closely, the 'N' was standing tall. ... By God people, there is a Medicare bill to debate! If only the Senate molested the Medicare bill." —Jon Stewart

"Yesterday federal agents raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara. This isn't good. People are gonna start saying this guy is peculiar. Apparently Michael Jackson was so upset he contacted Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper to get some sedatives." —David Letterman

"I guess they had 60 federal investigators going over the Neverland Ranch property for 12 hours and didn't find anything. But they did turn up OJ's knife." —David Letterman

"Earlier today, police raided the Neverland ranch. Michael Jackson was so upset he dangled himself over a balcony." —Craig Kilbor

 

[graceanne]

I actually approve of bed sharing between children and parents. If I found out someone else was taking my children to bed with them I'd have a big ass cow.

Who I think should be shot is the parents. I can't imagine allowing my child to spend the night with some guy, just cause he's famous. His house in itself would give me the royal screaming creeps. But then I'm picky, I only let my children spend the night at the house's of family and VERY close friends. The last thing in the world I am going to risk is exposing any of my chilren to a pedophile.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Who I think should be shot is the parents. I can't imagine allowing my child to spend the night with some guy, just cause he's famous ... The last thing in the world I am going to risk is exposing any of my chilren to a pedophile.

You forgot the obligatory "accused" before the label.

i agree with shooting the parents first, or at least charging them with what ... pandering? MJ, whether true or not, has issues. At least two other cases existed in the not too recent past where charges got dropped in exchange for cash. You don't pay off people unless a) you have something to hide, or b) have so much money you just want the issue to go away.

How does that old Scottish saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you ..."

 

[Caitlynne]

I tend to view this case (and cases like it) in terms of power. Who had the power?

While the public might say 'it is a shakedown', it's also the most obvious response, AND the one any good PR person would put in motion in order to sway public opinion.

The truth usually is in answering the question "Who had the power?" That's the person most likely to have crossed the line. "Absolute power corrupts, yada yada yada"

I believe people like Michael Jackson, Kobe, etc., have a sense of entitlement that the rest of us just can't comprehend. I believe that sense of entitlement allows them to live by a set of rules the rest of us don't understand.

I believe that at the bottom of this particular case is a man who is seriously out of touch with reality. His money and power allowed him to construct a world where he never had to account to the same 'powers that be' that you or I might.

I believe this is at the bottom of many cases like this; entitlement and enough money to enable that entitlement.

Simple as that.

~ cait

 

[Wolf of Mibu 69]

I admit that it's not unlikely that someone would try to take advantage of him, but when you have repeated rumors and accusations over the years, you have to wonder. I say he's guilty, but I also think they'll be able to get away with it because he's also obviously not sane either.

 

[GirlMidnite]

I tend to view this case (and cases like it) in terms of power. Who had the power?

While the public might say 'it is a shakedown', it's also the most obvious response, AND the one any good PR person would put in motion in order to sway public opinion.

The truth usually is in answering the question "Who had the power?" That's the person most likely to have crossed the line. "Absolute power corrupts, yada yada yada"

I believe people like Michael Jackson, Kobe, etc., have a sense of entitlement that the rest of us just can't comprehend. I believe that sense of entitlement allows them to live by a set of rules the rest of us don't understand.

I believe that at the bottom of this particular case is a man who is seriously out of touch with reality. His money and power allowed him to construct a world where he never had to account to the same 'powers that be' that you or I might.

I believe this is at the bottom of many cases like this; entitlement and enough money to enable that entitlement.

Simple as that.

~ cait

Your explanation is an excellent one. I also think, considering that he was not brought up to be a balanced individual (nor really, were his siblings), but rather to be purely an entertaining exterior, his personality developed in the vacuum of child stars who find themselves controlled by their parents to the point of child abuse and at the paradox liberty of using money, status and material goods to compensate for sound inter-personal skills and relationships. This is where someone like Michael Jackson jars with the reality that most of us share to some degree.

 

[hamiJJ]

Hmmmm

Change my view on this every time i think about it

Media will makew things as bad as possible

Authoritys are bad at looking at common sense

Michael has some serious issues but would he hurt a child

Where there is smoke there fire!

In short ! clueless

JJ

 

[DVS]

I think MJ is guilty of something, but it's possible that charges have been slightly enhanced by people looking for money, because of his seemingly unhealthy facination with kids. He's left himself open to that sort of thing. Still, parents did allow sleep overs, and they did allow them to go ALONE. Even MJ's PR people should have stopped that. It was only a matter of time before this would come to the surface. He's too famous for it not to. His PR advisors failed him or he did this against their better judgement.

MJ hasn't done a good job of stopping any fingerpointing, with his ADMITTED sleeping with the kids in the same bed, his secretive lifestlye and the ranch. It seems that only adds to his problems. He created a complete ranch and carnival atmosphere that only caters to KIDS. But, even with that, it was OK to invite kids to the ranch, but it's not OK to invite JUST the kids. This man in his 40s likes kids that much, and in a HEALTHY way? Please...

On the woman who still sleeps with her kids? I don't see that much wrong with it, although it is strange. I'd say she has issues she needs to deal with. I don't see a father sleeping with is kids that bad, either, but also a little strange. I would like to make sure both situations were legit and healthy.

As for anyone else sleeping with kids...that's just too weird. Although I see it as strange for parents to do it, after the kids reach a certain age, they at least have a connection with the kids that nobody else has. Anybody else sleeping with the kids and I'd seriously like to know what's going on.

 

[Miss Diva]

Interesting why are the prosecutors charging the parents with abandonment of the their child to a stranger? I mean the rumours regarding MJ have been around long enough...just a thought

On another note. My 11 year old niece sometimes wants her dad to sleep with her and just because and I am trying to figure out a way to let her parents know that this might be trouble if the authorites (teachers) ever found out. But what I do not understand is that it is probably ok for her mom to sleep with her.

 

[graceanne]

There is an entire group of people who believe in something called 'community beds' or 'community sleeping' or something like that, where the whole family sleeps in one bed. I personally don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be, but supposedly it makes the children more secure. Frankly, I think it's gotta play hell on the sex life, but I can see how some families would go for it. Also, my children like to sleep in me and K's bed, and if one of us is going to bed early, we let them (then move them after they go to sleep), and it matters little if it's me or him. The only difference between when they're in bed with us, and when we sleep together is that when they're in bed with us, we put on jammies. And I doubt there's one family here who hasn't had a child in bed with them after a nightmare.

That said, I still wouldn't let my children sleep with someone else. Especially someone like MJ. Whether he's a pedophile or not is beside the point, he's got a very unhealthy obsession with children and childhood. It's weird, and flat out gross. Not to mention that he's been accused before of sexual abuse before. I mean, why risk your child's like that? I think the parents are neglectful, stupid, and naive.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[graceanne]

Family bed. Or co-sleeping. Pick your phraseology. 4 of our 5 slept in our bed and transitioned out in their toddler years (around 2-3 years old). As for hurting a sex life... there are SO many other places to have sex other than a bed. Or infants and toddlers can be put somewhere else while mom and dad are playing in bed then brought to bed. Or if they are sound sleepers they won't know the difference (as infants especially). So co-sleeping/family bed/etc doesn't bother me really as long as it's working for the family.

Someone other than siblings/mom/dad in a bed with an infant or toddler? Issue. And for me, family bed beyond the age of 4-5 is a bit "off". (and I'm a family bed advocate. LOL)

That's right. I was drawing a blank on what it's called. Me and K discussed it and decided against it, cause we're both such heavy sleepers. I can't sleep with babies in our bed, cause I'm scared to death I'll roll over and smother them, so I don't sleep. lol

 

[PhillyMouse]

victim!!

I've always seen MJ as a sad case of arrested development and, as such, interacts with kids more easily than with adults. I think these sleepovers may be nothing more than big pajama parties, just like he says. Since the sleeping-in-the-same-bed has become such an issue, I can't imagine he would persist in that behavior (and be so damn vocal about it) if his purpose were sexual abuse -- why not just do it on the floor? He seems to be trying to make the point that sleeping in the same bed can be innocent, kids do it all the time and he's just a big kid (or thinks he is).

And as far as his own sexual orientation goes, I think he's asexual.

 

[arctic-stranger]

I've always seen MJ as a sad case of arrested development and, as such, interacts with kids more easily than with adults. I think these sleepovers may be nothing more than big pajama parties, just like he says. Since the sleeping-in-the-same-bed has become such an issue, I can't imagine he would persist in that behavior (and be so damn vocal about it) if his purpose were sexual abuse -- why not just do it on the floor? He seems to be trying to make the point that sleeping in the same bed can be innocent, kids do it all the time and he's just a big kid (or thinks he is).

And as far as his own sexual orientation goes, I think he's asexual.

Only in America can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich white woman....

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Only in America can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich white woman....

Try again ... a rich black woman ... i.e. Diana Ross.

 

[Desdemona]

MJ is creepy in the extreme. I agree he had a dysfunctional childhood, but he's an adult now and needs to act like one. He should not have other people's children in his bed. The parent's who allow this are idiots and not doing a very good job of protecting their kids.

 

[MastrJ]

I've always seen MJ as a sad case of arrested development and, as such, interacts with kids more easily than with adults. I think these sleepovers may be nothing more than big pajama parties, just like he says. Since the sleeping-in-the-same-bed has become such an issue, I can't imagine he would persist in that behavior (and be so damn vocal about it) if his purpose were sexual abuse -- why not just do it on the floor? He seems to be trying to make the point that sleeping in the same bed can be innocent, kids do it all the time and he's just a big kid (or thinks he is).

And as far as his own sexual orientation goes, I think he's asexual.

I think he's likely guilty, but if he's not it will be because of what this poster has said. Even though I think he did do it, I think he IS suffering from a severe case of arrested development. Look at Paris Hilton. She has it too, but because she didn't have to deal with being famous most of her life it shows as a general lack of maturity and a seeming inability to think of anyone but herself.

No matter what else happens with the case, I really hope that the court orders MJ to have some sort of court-ordered/required psychological evals and treatment. I'm not offering his arrested development as an excuse or reason for him to be found innocent. Even a kid knows to hide "playing Doctor" from adults. Unfortunately, I don't have any confidence that our justice system will actually convict him.



On the topic of family sleeping. I'm not too big on the idea. I don't have children, so this is from the perspective of a single, childless guy, but it doesn't seem right. Keeping the crib in the same room, fine. I don't think I would want to, but I can see good reasons for it. Kids climbing into bed with mommy and daddy after a nightmare, yeah. I know I did it when I was little. Once the child is old enough/big enough to sleep in a bed, I kind of think it's time that they should generally sleep in their own room or a room shared with siblings. But that's just my two cents. I'm not crying foul at those who believe differently.

 

[catalina_francisco]

MJ hasn't done a good job of stopping any fingerpointing, with his ADMITTED sleeping with the kids in the same bed, his secretive lifestlye and the ranch. It seems that only adds to his problems. He created a complete ranch and carnival atmosphere that only caters to KIDS. But, even with that, it was OK to invite kids to the ranch, but it's not OK to invite JUST the kids. This man in his 40s likes kids that much, and in a HEALTHY way? Please...

This is where the problem begins because from what I have seen of interviews and statements by MJ he has repeatedly said he did NOT sleep in the same bed, but slept on the floor and allowed them to use the bed.....this has also been verified by other people, some who were not his supporters....but it makes good copy to keep trying to sell he slept in the same bed, and it also is the way people's minds tend to naturally assume it must have been. He also has had many terminally and seriously ill children to the ranch to enjoy an experience they would never have confined in their hospital wards like they are....and brought their medical staff along to ensure their care, as well as equipped his theatre etc., with expensive medical equipment so this was possible. He also has had whole families stay on the ranch with him, and adults from various walks of life. In this day I admit, this is very suspect because most people are not inclined to give anything unless they are guaranteed something in return, usually of a monetary manner.

And yes, he has explained often that he loves children because they are innocent and not corrupt like the majority of society, and I am with him on that. It is sad it has become suspect to adore children, and equally sad that some vocations can find support for choosing to work in areas they do because of a love of children they openly admit, and yet someone who puts time and money into giving to children because he feels so strongly about their welfare, their happiness, and providing a space for them to play safely and experience a fantasy that many can not afford the Disneyland price to do, is seen as evil and obviously out to get his end in. I don't imagine he would find it possible to become a pre-school teacher or such as society just would not allow him that freedom.

Personally, I don't see MJ having sex with anyone because I strongly suspect he is either asexual or isn't prepared to risk the difficulties and risks associated with intimate relationships. I tend to go with the first though and that has in part also been demonstrated by Tatum O'Neale's account of her attempts to seduce him and his reaction to the idea os sexual intimacy. It is interesting that the majority of 'smoke' in this long saga has needed to be coaxed, coerced, and repeatedly pursued (dare we say harrassed?) by people who have vowed to get MJ for personal reasons, before it has suddenly become an accusation.....or it has come from people who have had a history of making a variety of claims requiring monetary compensation to make them go away. IME, people who have genuinely been sexually molested or abused, no amount of money is going to make it all better to the extent they are satisfied to zip their lips....quite the opposite, it would normally make them more determined to see justice done. But people do tend to like to think the worst of others, and it has long been the case that once you become a public figure and/or taste success, there is a human compulsion from others to bring you down at whatever cost. I will never understand that waste of energy which would be better spent on improving themselves instead of tearing down those who have already gotten off their butts to do something with their life.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've always seen MJ as a sad case of arrested development and, as such, interacts with kids more easily than with adults. I think these sleepovers may be nothing more than big pajama parties, just like he says. Since the sleeping-in-the-same-bed has become such an issue, I can't imagine he would persist in that behavior (and be so damn vocal about it) if his purpose were sexual abuse -- why not just do it on the floor? He seems to be trying to make the point that sleeping in the same bed can be innocent, kids do it all the time and he's just a big kid (or thinks he is).

And as far as his own sexual orientation goes, I think he's asexual.

LOL, didn't see this before my post....nice to see I am not the only one to think he is devoid of sexual interest in anyone or anything, adult or child. He is in my opinion an innocent soul, and in times past, people would have celebrated this quality. Geez, I am just happy my ancestor was born in the time he was because he gave his castle and fortune to providing a means for educating children (both male and female) of the poorer classes. In his time it was unusual to do, and his castle is now a college which still holds the same ethics he promoted in the 1600's, but if he were here today he would likely be seen as a possible deviant using the education and betterment of poor children as a front to get his rocks off....which he didn't.

Catalina

 

[DVS]

This is where the problem begins because from what I have seen of interviews and statements by MJ he has repeatedly said he did NOT sleep in the same bed, but slept on the floor and allowed them to use the bed.....this has also been verified by other people, some who were not his supporters....but it makes good copy to keep trying to sell he slept in the same bed, and it also is the way people's minds tend to naturally assume it must have been. He also has had many terminally and seriously ill children to the ranch to enjoy an experience they would never have confined in their hospital wards like they are....and brought their medical staff along to ensure their care, as well as equipped his theatre etc., with expensive medical equipment so this was possible. He also has had whole families stay on the ranch with him, and adults from various walks of life. In this day I admit, this is very suspect because most people are not inclined to give anything unless they are guaranteed something in return, usually of a monetary manner.

And yes, he has explained often that he loves children because they are innocent and not corrupt like the majority of society, and I am with him on that. It is sad it has become suspect to adore children, and equally sad that some vocations can find support for choosing to work in areas they do because of a love of children they openly admit, and yet someone who puts time and money into giving to children because he feels so strongly about their welfare, their happiness, and providing a space for them to play safely and experience a fantasy that many can not afford the Disneyland price to do, is seen as evil and obviously out to get his end in. I don't imagine he would find it possible to become a pre-school teacher or such as society just would not allow him that freedom.

Personally, I don't see MJ having sex with anyone because I strongly suspect he is either asexual or isn't prepared to risk the difficulties and risks associated with intimate relationships. I tend to go with the first though and that has in part also been demonstrated by Tatum O'Neale's account of her attempts to seduce him and his reaction to the idea os sexual intimacy. It is interesting that the majority of 'smoke' in this long saga has needed to be coaxed, coerced, and repeatedly pursued (dare we say harrassed?) by people who have vowed to get MJ for personal reasons, before it has suddenly become an accusation.....or it has come from people who have had a history of making a variety of claims requiring monetary compensation to make them go away. IME, people who have genuinely been sexually molested or abused, no amount of money is going to make it all better to the extent they are satisfied to zip their lips....quite the opposite, it would normally make them more determined to see justice done. But people do tend to like to think the worst of others, and it has long been the case that once you become a public figure and/or taste success, there is a human compulsion from others to bring you down at whatever cost. I will never understand that waste of energy which would be better spent on improving themselves instead of tearing down those who have already gotten off their butts to do something with their life.

Catalina

I'm not one to judge him before the courts do, but accusations in the media of the past occurances have taken the road against him. True, that's always going to be how it goes, innocent or guilty.

He's lived a very difficult life. I know he's not secure within himself, or he wouldn't have had so much plastic surgery. He doesn't seem like he has grown up, mentally. Even his voice is still adolesant (OK, just kidding on that).

He's a very talented singer and dancer, and I love the album "Thriller". That is saying a lot, because I don't care for the Jacksons as a singing group, but I know millions do. My sister (56 year old retired music teacher) is one of them. And, I don't care for Janet's style either, but the whole family is very talented.

I do hope something is finally decided as real and considered the truth by all in the trial. If not, accusations will only continue to fester. If he's guilty, he needs professional help. If he's innocent, he deserves to be left alone.

 

[WriterDom]

SANTA MARIA, Calif. (March 7) - The brother of Michael Jackson's accuser testified at the singer's child molestation trial Monday that Jackson showed them Internet sex sites.

Michael could be here and we wouldn't even know it. But would he visit bdsm?

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Ya never know ...

... Michael could be here and we wouldn't even know it. But would he visit bdsm?

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