#metoo

[ToPleaseHim]

No no no.
Define "Assaulted"

Were all of those women RAPED or escaped an attempted rape? And to be clear, let's not call an overenthusiastic teenage boy trying to pick you up and not knowing when to fuck off, or being too careless with his hands on a first date - an attempted rape.
Again, you CAN NOT group any form of assault with rape statistics and then go about saying how almost all women experience it.

I can actually say the same about men. Most men I know were assaulted or abused by women at some point in their lives. It's true. But it really does sound stupid when you say that, see? Because it's not specific enough and too vague. You are using those phrases in scope of specifically rape discussion.

Your lumping up rape with assault (and a broad definition of assault at that) makes everything you say after that look completely uncredible, even if your motivations are correct. You are hurting your cause by exaggeration.

You are looking like a major asshole here and digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

Regarding the bolded line: what the actual fuck. As long as she escaped that attempted rape then no harm no foul?!?

Calm down and do some research. Listen to the women here who are telling you what every woman I know knows. This is all too common, and hushed, and not believed. My first assault (yes assault) also happened at a far too young age. Nearly every women I have opened up to has a story to tell about men harassing them, stalking them, touching them, raping them. And I know some men who’ve been victimized too (mostly by men). And I know women who’ve been assaulted by women. Are you saying that as long as a dick didn’t enter a vagina then it’s A-okay? Are you fucking serious? What is so fucking hard to understand about consent? Why do we live in a world where 1 in 6 women WILL experience this? Why are there people still getting mad at those speaking out against sexual assault? Get mad that it still happens so much! Get mad that people blame the victims! Get mad that men are too upset and #notallmen that they can’t step back and recognize their power to shut down rape jokes, to tell men they’re going too far, to get consent 100% of the time. Yes = yes. Ask! It’s 2018 for fuck’s sake.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

 

[Farawyn]

You are looking like a major asshole here and digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

Regarding the bolded line: what the actual fuck. As long as she escaped that attempted rape then no harm no foul?!?

Calm down and do some research. Listen to the women here who are telling you what every woman I know knows. This is all too common, and hushed, and not believed. My first assault (yes assault) also happened at a far too young age. Nearly every women I have opened up to has a story to tell about men harassing them, stalking them, touching them, raping them. And I know some men who’ve been victimized too (mostly by men). And I know women who’ve been assaulted by women. Are you saying that as long as a dick didn’t enter a vagina then it’s A-okay? Are you fucking serious? What is so fucking hard to understand about consent? Why do we live in a world where 1 in 6 women WILL experience this? Why are there people still getting mad at those speaking out against sexual assault? Get mad that it still happens so much! Get mad that people blame the victims! Get mad that men are too upset and #notallmen that they can’t step back and recognize their power to shut down rape jokes, to tell men they’re going too far, to get consent 100% of the time. Yes = yes. Ask! It’s 2018 for fuck’s sake.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

Love.

 

[LostGirlTink]

You are looking like a major asshole here and digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

Regarding the bolded line: what the actual fuck. As long as she escaped that attempted rape then no harm no foul?!?

Calm down and do some research. Listen to the women here who are telling you what every woman I know knows. This is all too common, and hushed, and not believed. My first assault (yes assault) also happened at a far too young age. Nearly every women I have opened up to has a story to tell about men harassing them, stalking them, touching them, raping them. And I know some men who’ve been victimized too (mostly by men). And I know women who’ve been assaulted by women. Are you saying that as long as a dick didn’t enter a vagina then it’s A-okay? Are you fucking serious? What is so fucking hard to understand about consent? Why do we live in a world where 1 in 6 women WILL experience this? Why are there people still getting mad at those speaking out against sexual assault? Get mad that it still happens so much! Get mad that people blame the victims! Get mad that men are too upset and #notallmen that they can’t step back and recognize their power to shut down rape jokes, to tell men they’re going too far, to get consent 100% of the time. Yes = yes. Ask! It’s 2018 for fuck’s sake.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

 

[Nezhul]

Which of those do you deem acceptable or does a penis have to enter a vagina for you to consider it “real rape”

None of them is acceptable and no, you can rape someone without penetration, but (in case of men raping women) I would say that direct rubbing of a man's dick over some part of woman's body without consent, or any unwanted stimulation of her genitails is the minimum of what makes it rape. There are a lot of details and special cases, of course, and I'm not going to make a list here.
Something like ripping someone's shirt off and/or grabbing her tits would be serious abuse and indeed sexual assault, but NOT a rape.

Still, your little list proves how spread apart and vague the term of sexual assault is. On a scale of one to ten, unwanted touching would be one, where rape would be ten, while both are technically sexual assaults.
And many of those points are NOT a women-only problem as you are trying to sell here. In this context it's inappropriate to say that "Most women experience assault", because most men experience it too. Then why do you separate it by gender then? From your words, it looks like assaulting men is fine, not a big deal, but for women it's a huge problem.

You are being sexist.

Were all of those women RAPED or escaped an attempted rape?

Regarding the bolded line: what the actual fuck. As long as she escaped that attempted rape then no harm no foul?!?

How the fuck did you real it like that?
The bolded line explicitly equates a failed rape attempt to rape in this case.
I'm saying here that it's OK to count serious rape attempts (both failed and sucessful), but it is wrong to lump it up with things like a teenager grabbing a girl's ass because he's a dick with raging hormones and no brain to reign them in. Or even things like cat-calling which are bad too, but they CAN'T be lumped up with rape - which is exactly what Tink does.
She takes a broad definition of sexual assault and lumps it all together in a rape conversation, then says that most women experience it (which implies rape)

Again, you can NOT lump this broad term together and at the same time make it look gender-specific. Because when it's viewed broadly like that - it's not. It's a problem that boys and men face just the same.

I would agree with you any day that rape is mostly a problem for females, at least in a civilian setting. But I will never, ever, EVER going to agree that sexual assault is.

That's why I will never tolerate phrases like "Most women suffer from sexual assault or harassment", because it can not be attributed to women only. NAd if it can't, then it shouldn't be presented as a gender problem - it should be discussed as a broad human society problem.
The fact that you do shows that you only care for your own perspective, which is female.

Either you change it to "Most people suffer from sexual assault or harassment at some point in their lives" or at least "Women suffer more sexual assaults and harassment." which I will be inclined to agree with.

My original issue is with someone who had said that men should stop whining about fake rape accusations, because rape itself is a bigger issue.
And then you all went to support that point of view, implying that women have much more sex-related issues than men, so it's wrong to discuss men's problems.
Which is plainly and frankly not accurate. Which is actually being just as offensive and sexist towards men as you think they (we, I) are towards you.

What I can't understand about discussions like this, is the contingent of men who, instead of being concerned about the clear and obvious problem women face, are far more concerned about how gaining consent might impact their sex lives and land them with false rape allegations.

This is what started it, and you are just supporting this point of view. OP is concerned for his safety, perhaps the concern is misguided but it's certainly not unjustified. Courts are strange, and wrong precedents can be very dangerous.
Instead, you all went on supporting this stance that laughs and mocks the man's concern as "wanting to get laid".
You are committing the same fallacy as those men who say that women are just being whimsical when they say "no". Those same rapists that you criticise.
Can't yous see it?

Or do you actually feel that only men can be sexist, while women can only be defensive? Because you ARE being real bitches right now by saying that female problems mean that men don't get to discuss theirs. You obviously have it worse, so it's your problems that should be discussed, not some mythical and made-up male problems.
How do you even have sons without shaming them for being male?

 

[snexxer]

But did you tell him he was a fucking slob for saying that?

That's how we are going to get REAL change.
When a man says something like that and all his friends call him out on it and are willing to denounce the friendship over it.

Sorry ladies I had gone to bed here in the UK.

This was a work colleague who said this when I was visiting the office the other day.
I told him it was that kind of opinion that made me sick. I made sure to tell one of the managers also that I was disgusted by the joke.

As a descent human, husband and father it disgusts me when anyone defends any action or comment regarding rape.

 

[KimGordon67]

None of them is acceptable and no, you can rape someone without penetration, but (in case of men raping women) I would say that direct rubbing of a man's dick over some part of woman's body without consent, or any unwanted stimulation of her genitails is the minimum of what makes it rape. There are a lot of details and special cases, of course, and I'm not going to make a list here.
Something like ripping someone's shirt off and/or grabbing her tits would be serious abuse and indeed sexual assault, but NOT a rape.

Still, your little list proves how spread apart and vague the term of sexual assault is. On a scale of one to ten, unwanted touching would be one, where rape would be ten, while both are technically sexual assaults.
And many of those points are NOT a women-only problem as you are trying to sell here. In this context it's inappropriate to say that "Most women experience assault", because most men experience it too. Then why do you separate it by gender then? From your words, it looks like assaulting men is fine, not a big deal, but for women it's a huge problem.

You are being sexist.

How the fuck did you real it like that?
The bolded line explicitly equates a failed rape attempt to rape in this case.
I'm saying here that it's OK to count serious rape attempts (both failed and sucessful), but it is wrong to lump it up with things like a teenager grabbing a girl's ass because he's a dick with raging hormones and no brain to reign them in. Or even things like cat-calling which are bad too, but they CAN'T be lumped up with rape - which is exactly what Tink does.
She takes a broad definition of sexual assault and lumps it all together in a rape conversation, then says that most women experience it (which implies rape)

Again, you can NOT lump this broad term together and at the same time make it look gender-specific. Because when it's viewed broadly like that - it's not. It's a problem that boys and men face just the same.

I would agree with you any day that rape is mostly a problem for females, at least in a civilian setting. But I will never, ever, EVER going to agree that sexual assault is.

That's why I will never tolerate phrases like "Most women suffer from sexual assault or harassment", because it can not be attributed to women only. NAd if it can't, then it shouldn't be presented as a gender problem - it should be discussed as a broad human society problem.
The fact that you do shows that you only care for your own perspective, which is female.

Either you change it to "Most people suffer from sexual assault or harassment at some point in their lives" or at least "Women suffer more sexual assaults and harassment." which I will be inclined to agree with.

My original issue is with someone who had said that men should stop whining about fake rape accusations, because rape itself is a bigger issue.
And then you all went to support that point of view, implying that women have much more sex-related issues than men, so it's wrong to discuss men's problems.
Which is plainly and frankly not accurate. Which is actually being just as offensive and sexist towards men as you think they (we, I) are towards you.

This is what started it, and you are just supporting this point of view. OP is concerned for his safety, perhaps the concern is misguided but it's certainly not unjustified. Courts are strange, and wrong precedents can be very dangerous.
Instead, you all went on supporting this stance that laughs and mocks the man's concern as "wanting to get laid".
You are committing the same fallacy as those men who say that women are just being whimsical when they say "no". Those same rapists that you criticise.
Can't yous see it?

Or do you actually feel that only men can be sexist, while women can only be defensive? Because you ARE being real bitches right now by saying that female problems mean that men don't get to discuss theirs. You obviously have it worse, so it's your problems that should be discussed, not some mythical and made-up male problems.
How do you even have sons without shaming them for being male?

"On a scale of one to ten, unwanted touching would be one, where rape would be ten, while both are technically sexual assaults."
I think is sort of our point ... although not that they're 'technically' sexual assaults, they ARE sexual assaults.

Trying to suggest that these are problems for men JUST AS MUCH as they are for women is patently stupid. I don't think anyone (other than you) has said 'only' women are sexually assaulted, nor that 'only' men sexually assault, but you can't see that this is a gendered issue, then there's really no helping you.

 

[snexxer]

None of them is acceptable and no, you can rape someone without penetration, but (in case of men raping women) I would say that direct rubbing of a man's dick over some part of woman's body without consent, or any unwanted stimulation of her genitails is the minimum of what makes it rape. There are a lot of details and special cases, of course, and I'm not going to make a list here.
Something like ripping someone's shirt off and/or grabbing her tits would be serious abuse and indeed sexual assault, but NOT a rape.

Still, your little list proves how spread apart and vague the term of sexual assault is. On a scale of one to ten, unwanted touching would be one, where rape would be ten, while both are technically sexual assaults.
And many of those points are NOT a women-only problem as you are trying to sell here. In this context it's inappropriate to say that "Most women experience assault", because most men experience it too. Then why do you separate it by gender then? From your words, it looks like assaulting men is fine, not a big deal, but for women it's a huge problem.

You are being sexist.

How the fuck did you real it like that?
The bolded line explicitly equates a failed rape attempt to rape in this case.
I'm saying here that it's OK to count serious rape attempts (both failed and sucessful), but it is wrong to lump it up with things like a teenager grabbing a girl's ass because he's a dick with raging hormones and no brain to reign them in. Or even things like cat-calling which are bad too, but they CAN'T be lumped up with rape - which is exactly what Tink does.
She takes a broad definition of sexual assault and lumps it all together in a rape conversation, then says that most women experience it (which implies rape)

Again, you can NOT lump this broad term together and at the same time make it look gender-specific. Because when it's viewed broadly like that - it's not. It's a problem that boys and men face just the same.

I would agree with you any day that rape is mostly a problem for females, at least in a civilian setting. But I will never, ever, EVER going to agree that sexual assault is.

That's why I will never tolerate phrases like "Most women suffer from sexual assault or harassment", because it can not be attributed to women only. NAd if it can't, then it shouldn't be presented as a gender problem - it should be discussed as a broad human society problem.
The fact that you do shows that you only care for your own perspective, which is female.

Either you change it to "Most people suffer from sexual assault or harassment at some point in their lives" or at least "Women suffer more sexual assaults and harassment." which I will be inclined to agree with.

My original issue is with someone who had said that men should stop whining about fake rape accusations, because rape itself is a bigger issue.
And then you all went to support that point of view, implying that women have much more sex-related issues than men, so it's wrong to discuss men's problems.
Which is plainly and frankly not accurate. Which is actually being just as offensive and sexist towards men as you think they (we, I) are towards you.

This is what started it, and you are just supporting this point of view. OP is concerned for his safety, perhaps the concern is misguided but it's certainly not unjustified. Courts are strange, and wrong precedents can be very dangerous.
Instead, you all went on supporting this stance that laughs and mocks the man's concern as "wanting to get laid".
You are committing the same fallacy as those men who say that women are just being whimsical when they say "no". Those same rapists that you criticise.
Can't yous see it?

Or do you actually feel that only men can be sexist, while women can only be defensive? Because you ARE being real bitches right now by saying that female problems mean that men don't get to discuss theirs. You obviously have it worse, so it's your problems that should be discussed, not some mythical and made-up male problems.
How do you even have sons without shaming them for being male?

I'm not going to argue any of your points because they being spouted by someone who is talking bollocks.

Everyone should check consent before sex. Even if you've been married 30 years. FACT.

Rapes are predominantly committed by men. Women do commit rape also. FACT

The rapist is the person who is committing the crime not the victim. FACT

Defending a rapist with lines like, "Did you see what she was wearing", "She was asking for it", "She was a cock tease". Etc. Is so wrong it disgusts me.

Jokes about rape are immoral and disgusting.

The people who should be shamed by rape are people who tell the jokes, say the lines or make light in any way the actions of rape.

I am saddened and angry by the actions of rapists, but I'm not ashamed to be a man because I know that consent must be given not taken.

Oh and as the husband of a rape victim, I know the effects it has.

 

[KimGordon67]

You've made a double standard there, and an argument through implication that I doubt you meant to make.
We're talking specifically about rape, not harassment. Obviously harassment shouldn't happen but it's hardly comparable with rape, rape is on a way higher tier of 'bad' than unwanted remarks or touching, but even if they were it would still be dishonest to say men are responsible for preventing X because not all men do X, and in the case of rape; extraordinarily few men commit rape, men also make up the majority of barfight instigators, murderers, drug pushers and suicides but you would never say that just because the times those harms occur men are generally the perpetrators - (to a comparable percentage that rape occurs at might I add, 96% worldwide for murders) - then that makes men collectively responsible to any degree for their perpetration. Simply because at least in those cases you accept that it's not reflective of the entire male demographic. Which is the double standard.

Btw I am not saying men should avoid preventing unequal treatment/illegalities/whatever else, I think everybody should chip in to prevent such things, my problem is in that by saying men are responsible for preventing rape you're leading onto that implied argument I mentioned: it implies that every guy bears an amount of responsibility for any rapes that do occur because we as a demographic didn't do enough to prevent it, even if we individually couldn't. If you translated that into a courtroom it would mean we would have to find not only the perpetrator of the assault guilty, but every man in the vicinity/city/country/planet somewhat culpable too and punish them also.

We all hear it, and nobody believes it and it doesn't translate into actual actions because we propagate the idea that people are responsible for their actions way more. See bramblethorn's corrections of my previous post for proof.

Unless we're talking about Saudi Arabia and other Islamic fundamentalist countries where they actually do have that. I imagine I'm telling you what you already know here but the religious justifications for Burkas, Niqabs, Hijabs, women not being allowed out in public alone, etc is based on this idea that it is to protect women from men who 'cant control themselves' and will obviously attack a woman when he sees a bit of ankle. Which is also why they persecute female victims of sexual assault, they presume the woman was at fault for not being modest enough and so invited the attack. That's a rape culture for you.

You're equating not enjoying sex with rape.

The bolded comment was a response, in part, to my suggestions that the 'male sex drive' discourse is fairly embedded in cultural responses to male sexuality.

From Nezhul's post only a couple of pages later:
"... but it is wrong to lump it up with things like a teenager grabbing a girl's ass because he's a dick with raging hormones and no brain to reign them in."

Ahem.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'm not going to argue any of your points because they being spouted by someone who is talking bollocks.

Everyone should check consent before sex. Even if you've been married 30 years. FACT.

Rapes are predominantly committed by men. FACT

The rapist is the person who is committing the crime not the victim. FACT

Defending a rapist with lines like, "Did you see what she was wearing", "She was asking for it", "She was a cock tease". Etc. Is so wrong it disgusts me.

Jokes about rape are immoral and disgusting.

The people who should be shamed by rape are people who tell the jokes, say the lines or make light in any way the actions of rape.

I am saddened and angry by the actions of rapists, but I'm not ashamed to be a man because I know that consent must be given not taken.

Oh and as the husband of a rape victim, I know the effects it has.

And there we have it. Instead of throwing up your hands in victimised despair that women are asking you to take some responsibility for something, actually listen to them. Actually take them seriously. When they get frustrated and angry, don't call them 'pseudo-victims'. When they say 'We want some freaking help and understanding here', don't say 'but I'm not a rapist - how is this my problem?' Because you know what - we're fucking sick of it being OUR problem when we haven't actually done anything wrong.

What won't change the fact that women are frequently subject to sexual assault - women altering their behaviour in some way.
What will change the fact that women are frequently subject to sexual assault - men changing their behaviour in some, and yes, most freaking men, because the current model of hegemonic masculinity is carried by most of you, and most of you benefit from it in some way.

Thanks snexxer ... and thanks for caring for your wife.

 

[Zionisacat]

How the fuck did you real it like that?

When 3 people have misinterpreted what you've said, perhaps the problem lies not with their reading comprehension, but with your articulation?

 

[Nezhul]

The bolded comment was a response, in part, to my suggestions that the 'male sex drive' discourse is fairly embedded in cultural responses to male sexuality.

From Nezhul's post only a couple of pages later:
"... but it is wrong to lump it up with things like a teenager grabbing a girl's ass because he's a dick with raging hormones and no brain to reign them in."

Ahem.

Erm, so? Yeah I said that. Did I say that he's not responsible for it? No. I said it was a problem of an entirely different magnitude than rape. It's like comparing sun to lightbulbs. Yes grabbing girls is bad, but if you put it against rape - on any scale - it will be WAY below.

As always Kim, you are reading some words, then put them through the dirty old tubes of your consciousness, and then replying to what you THOUGHT has been said.
You never change.

 

[Nezhul]

When 3 people have misinterpreted what you've said, perhaps the problem lies not with their reading comprehension, but with your articulation?

Please, do explain me where said particular bolded sentence was vaguely articulated?

No really, here, I quote it for you.

Were all of those women RAPED or escaped an attempted rape? Again, you CAN NOT group any form of assault with rape statistics

p.s. Your argument put into perspective: if 3 out of 4 people say the Earth is flat - then it obviously is.

 

[Nezhul]

I'm not going to argue any of your points because they being spouted by someone who is talking bollocks.

Everyone should check consent before sex. Even if you've been married 30 years. FACT.

Rapes are predominantly committed by men. Women do commit rape also. FACT

The rapist is the person who is committing the crime not the victim. FACT

Defending a rapist with lines like, "Did you see what she was wearing", "She was asking for it", "She was a cock tease". Etc. Is so wrong it disgusts me.

Jokes about rape are immoral and disgusting.

The people who should be shamed by rape are people who tell the jokes, say the lines or make light in any way the actions of rape.

I am saddened and angry by the actions of rapists, but I'm not ashamed to be a man because I know that consent must be given not taken.

Oh and as the husband of a rape victim, I know the effects it has.

Excuse me, but where did I argue even once ANY of those points? Where? You quote my post, tell me I'm wrong (just because), and then correct me on things I never even said once, and on which I agreed with your stances openly on numerous occasions even in this thread.

Are you fucking idiot or what?

The funny thing that no one's going to actually respond and defend your post now. People will just move on, as if never happened, and attack some other point in my post. If I argument against said attack - move along and attack another angle.

You people are not even debating anymore. You are throwing shit at my posts, like monkeys in a zoo, and when you have nothing to say to one thing - you pretend you heard no arguments and find something else to gnaw on.

Learn to defend your stance instead of just finding a new thing to latch onto.

 

[KimGordon67]

Erm, so? Yeah I said that. Did I say that he's not responsible for it? No. I said it was a problem of an entirely different magnitude than rape. It's like comparing sun to lightbulbs. Yes grabbing girls is bad, but if you put it against rape - on any scale - it will be WAY below.

As always Kim, you are reading some words, then put them through the dirty old tubes of your consciousness, and then replying to what you THOUGHT has been said.
You never change.

I wasn't actually responding to what you said - I was responding to Blue, using your words as evidence of my point.

But yeah, using terms like 'raging hormones' to explain the shitty behaviour of hypothetical young men is the male sex drive discourse in action. And it's the same discourse that's used to explain why men rape - because they supposedly 'can't help themselves' once 'sexually provoked' ... because hormones or whatever. It's a stupid argument, but it's the argument you were making.

You'll also note that I seldom use the term 'rape'. I try to refer to sexual assault. (I did say 'rape' earlier in the thread, but in the context I was assuming we were taking it as read that that included all sexual assault ... but apparently, no.) Rape legally (and in some people's heads, including yours) has a ridiculously constrained definition that means a whole lot of stuff gets excluded and hence positioned as 'not so bad'. But seriously, why the fuck should women have to put up with this shit just because it's 'not as bad as rape'?

 

[KimGordon67]

Excuse me, but where did I argue even once ANY of those points? Where? You quote my post, tell me I'm wrong (just because), and then correct me on things I never even said once, and on which I agreed with your stances openly on numerous occasions even in this thread.

Are you fucking idiot or what?

The funny thing that no one's going to actually respond and defend your post now. People will just move on, as if never happened, and attack some other point in my post. If I argument against said attack - move along and attack another angle.

You people are not even debating anymore. You are throwing shit at my posts, like monkeys in a zoo, and when you have nothing to say to one thing - you pretend you heard no arguments and find something else to gnaw on.

Learn to defend your stance instead of just finding a new thing to latch onto.

He quite categorically said he wasn't correcting you.

People aren't responding to your actual posts because they're inane, and because you're incapable of hearing anyone's voice other than your own. Whenever one of these threads starts, you leap in saying 'oh, but it's not that bad'. If it's not that bad, where are the numerous female posters saying 'oh, it's not that bad' ... the only people who come up with that rhetoric are guys. The women who contribute just consistently say 'yes, it really is that bad'. Maybe fucking listen to them. You can bollocks me all you want - I never cared - but I'm quite clearly not the only woman saying this.

(Actually, I also often respond to things you say - see post #110 as an example. You just ignore it, because apparently any woman who disagrees with you is a man-hating bitch.)

 

[snexxer]

Excuse me, but where did I argue even once ANY of those points? Where? You quote my post, tell me I'm wrong (just because), and then correct me on things I never even said once, and on which I agreed with your stances openly on numerous occasions even in this thread.

Are you fucking idiot or what?

The funny thing that no one's going to actually respond and defend your post now. People will just move on, as if never happened, and attack some other point in my post. If I argument against said attack - move along and attack another angle.

You people are not even debating anymore. You are throwing shit at my posts, like monkeys in a zoo, and when you have nothing to say to one thing - you pretend you heard no arguments and find something else to gnaw on.

Learn to defend your stance instead of just finding a new thing to latch onto.

Firstly read the first line of my post.
I'm not going to argue any of your points because they being spouted by someone who is talking bollocks.

Second, I didn't tell you that you were wrong. I said you're talking bollocks.

Thirdly, I then stated points and my opinions.

I didn't attack you, just like I didn't pick apart the rhetoric you are spouting and prove what you are stating is wrong.

You got one thing right though, I'm not debating. I'm saying that I think the shit you are spouting is utter bollocks.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Schneiderman seemed to enjoy playing around in the noncon grey area...an inherently risky activity, especially for a pol with a public image as a white knight.

Add in alcohol-impaired judgement and the likelihood that he was thinking with his balls AND the probability that he is not an especially well-integrated man (cf Hugo Schwyzer or Anthony Weiner) and what could go wrong?

Noncon did not just start being risky in current year. You go there, you better own it.

 

[Nezhul]

Kim, you read posts with your ass.

I explicitly stated that nothing is a justification for a teenage guy grabbing what he shouldn't - and in the very next post you are going on about how I'm justifying his behaviour by raging hormones.

Like, seriously, have you ever been checked for being a bit ADD?

 

[Farawyn]

Such a beta male whiner. ^

 

[Farawyn]

When 3 people have misinterpreted what you've said, perhaps the problem lies not with their reading comprehension, but with your articulation?

This.

 

[Angedesoleil]

All due respect to those in here, I appreciate and respect the importance of the conversation. I've read *parts* and I really don't want to drudge up my own life right now...BUT
Without calling anyone out... Would those who feel it appropriate to make vast sweeping comments about religious motivations they clearly know *nothing* about please knock it off?
Hijab means modesty. It has not hide nor hair to do with what it *causes* men to do. That ain't it kid, that ain't it. If you'd like to discuss the fiq ( reason/ wisdom) behind hijab I welcome you to my inbox. In any which case, hijab as a statement of faith is very different from that which is culturally expected. I'm not defending culture, I WILL argue religion with you. I'll tell you this: I'm a hijabi Muslim woman. I am not opressed in the middle east, I'm respected. I'm not harassed, I'm protected. I'm not shamed or hidden, ridiculed, cat called or judged. I've never felt afraid for my safety.
When I lived in the US as a non hijabi non Muslim I was at moments in my life: raped repeatedly by a family member, raped by a stranger, cat called, harassed, and on more than a few occasions felt afraid for my safety.
Hijab does not "protect me" lack of it did not cause any of that. I'm aware of this. Women are assaulted and raped here, but I can count on ONE HAND the number of women who have been that I know. Cat calling is the worst most of us get ( we are hijabi not niqabi or wearing burka).

Back to the point: the reason for the belief in hijab has nothing to do with ? Preventing men from not bring able to help themselves?? If you misunderstand the phrase " guard the gaze" I'll gladly explain it and provide references as well.

Peace.

Because the song says it way better than I can
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xg_8-LPq5qY

 

[KimGordon67]

All due respect to those in here, I appreciate and respect the importance of the conversation. I've read *parts* and I really don't want to drudge up my own life right now...BUT
Without calling anyone out... Would those who feel it appropriate to make vast sweeping comments about religious motivations they clearly know *nothing* about please knock it off?
Hijab means modesty. It has not hide nor hair to do with what it *causes* men to do. That ain't it kid, that ain't it. If you'd like to discuss the fiq ( reason/ wisdom) behind hijab I welcome you to my inbox. In any which case, hijab as a statement of faith is very different from that which is culturally expected. I'm not defending culture, I WILL argue religion with you. I'll tell you this: I'm a hijabi Muslim woman. I am not opressed in the middle east, I'm respected. I'm not harassed, I'm protected. I'm not shamed or hidden, ridiculed, cat called or judged. I've never felt afraid for my safety.
When I lived in the US as a non hijabi non Muslim I was at moments in my life: raped repeatedly by a family member, raped by a stranger, cat called, harassed, and on more than a few occasions felt afraid for my safety.
Hijab does not "protect me" lack of it did not cause any of that. I'm aware of this. Women are assaulted and raped here, but I can count on ONE HAND the number of women who have been that I know. Cat calling is the worst most of us get ( we are hijabi not niqabi or wearing burka).

Back to the point: the reason for the belief in hijab has nothing to do with ? Preventing men from not bring able to help themselves?? If you misunderstand the phrase " guard the gaze" I'll gladly explain it and provide references as well.

Peace.

Because the song says it way better than I can
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xg_8-LPq5qY

Thanks for this ... I couldn't even be bothered addressing the Islamaphobia in Blue's comment, but I'm glad someone else did.

I sure some dude'll be along momentarily to explain to you why you're wrong though.

 

[KimGordon67]

Kim, you read posts with your ass.

I explicitly stated that nothing is a justification for a teenage guy grabbing what he shouldn't - and in the very next post you are going on about how I'm justifying his behaviour by raging hormones.

Like, seriously, have you ever been checked for being a bit ADD?

Then why mention the 'raging hormones' at all?

 

[Nezhul]

Then why mention the 'raging hormones' at all?

It is a factual thing that does cause behavioral changes, you know?
It is FACT that all teenagers, both men AND women are more unhinged during puberty, and make a lot of dumb things.

No, this is not an excuse. But it's a valid part of cause. And the point was never about hormones or age. Let's replace the teenager with a 30-year-old idiot who thinks he can grab things he should not. The point stands - you CAN NOT lump him in with rapists, or the act with experiencing actual rape for a woman. While this is extremely unpleasant, this is still FAR from being as traumatizing as rape.

Also, while there is no completely symmetrical problem for men, there are other types of abuse that men suffer from women that would be equally unpleasant and traumatizing as molesting. The difference is - we aren't supposed to talk about it. And we normally don't - I only do this in scope of this discussion to bring perspective that your side lacks. I'm not here to complain to you how hard the man's life is made by women. I keep quiet about it exactly because I know that women in general don't have it any better than me.
But because most men are never complaining, you get the impression that only one gender suffers from another, and not vice versa.
Then you come here with claims how tough woman's toll is, and how men can't understand anything. While completely, completely failing to see that intergender abuse is far from one-sided.

Again, due to the difference in gender psychology the problems are not symmetrical. Women suffer more physical abuse, while men much more often fail victim to psychological or cultural. But you are being hypocritical if you say that no bruises means no foul play.

You aren't even thinking about things. You are concentrated on the problems that are close you you, and you turn a complete blind eye on the others. To be clear, I'm not saying that you shouldn't complain or try to change things - but you shouldn't present it by only victimizing one gender while shaming the other.

Your entire line in this argument boils down to women suffering greatly from abuse from men, while men are clearly much better off and have no right to over-dramatize their problems. Let alone compare our made-up issues to woman's.

I do not try and make woman's problems smaller than they are.
What I ask in return is merely the same courtesy from you, women. Instead you have completely derailed this thread and made it about YOU, while mocking and shaming that the OP had an audacity to be concerned about male side in an inter-gender problem.
You don't even want to accept that men have issues and women have faults, because YOU are the only heavily abused gender.

You are completely one-dimensional, Kim.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Another way for guys to think about this...

2.7 million American soldiers served in Vietnam. Of those: about 60,000 were killed, and another 150,000 were injured badly enough to require hospitalisation.

So do we tell Vietnam vets "that wasn't so bad, more than 90% of you came home unharmed"?

Of course we fucking don't. Because we understand that even for the "lucky" 90%, it's seriously damaging to see friends killed or injured, trying to maintain constant alertness for months and years in case this is the day that your lucky streak ends. The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study estimated that about one million soldiers experienced PTSD at some point in their life as a result of the war.

So maybe apply that kind of thinking to sexual assault?

Not every woman has been or will be sexually assaulted. Probably less than half. But it's a significant threat in EVERY woman's life, and even the women who never get assaulted still pay a price for it.