Mental vs. Physical

[CutieMouse]

Geez, H, by that definition, I'M a brat. Not so much on the needing punishment part, but in the "are you going to do what you say you're going to do?" sense. Hmm. Must think.

I'm sorry love, but if "expecting people to follow through" = brat, by that definition *I* am a brat. And I am about as non-brat as a human being can get.

Please please please in the journey of labeling things, please do not confuse honest to god needs and boundaries with "bratty behavior".

And I agree Homburg's description was thorough and well done. It actually helped me identify what I don't like about the "brat" dynamic - it reminds me too much of BPD. I'm not saying brats have BPD, or are BDP, but it reminds me of growing up in a BPD household, where the rules were never quite as solid as I needed them to be... it was an interesting revelation.

 

[KoPilot]

I just googled BDP and all I got was "Boogie Down Productions".

 

[VelvetSin]

Hot.

I liked it.

Have you or anyone else reading this known someone who's gotten off on being penetrated by an enormous cock? I only hear how inconvenient they actually are because it makes sex really uncomfortable, and I never hear about masos getting off on that kind of pain.

I can't help there. I've only ever seen/"experienced" maybe a little over average in size "down there." I don't think that would be something I'd be into though. I imagine it would be too distracting.

 

[Soumis]

I just googled BDP and all I got was "Boogie Down Productions".

She typed BPD at first, so I'm going with bipolar disorder.

 

[vintage63]

She typed BPD at first, so I'm going with bipolar disorder.

I was thinking Borderline...

 

[SmallRabbit]

I'm a brat.

But only my Dom would know that. I get bratty as a direct result of what? Insecurity. I'm insecure about a whole mess of things, which I won't list, but "acting out" as so many have lovingly referred to it is a primary means of communication when I break down. In my social (or public) life I don't come off as insecure or bratty, perhaps willful and bitchy sometimes but not really that reactive misbehavior I find myself doing when I think I'm losing. Heh, not very submissive of me, huh?

But that's how I am. I used to entertain the idea of acting out in order to receive punishment but have recently gotten to have experiences with a Dom who actually knows how to punish, so that's currently a bad idea. Acting out with him has NEVER earned me a thorough spanking, just punishment that makes me feel little and think he's mean. I don't want punishment. I want leniency, understanding, compassion...but not really. I really desire a firm hand and swift correction that I'm not allowed to talk my way out of. Because this is how I grow. My insecurities are what I want to have manipulated and shaped because I clearly don't deal with them, for me submissiveness is as much about psychological dynamics and rewards as it is sex, or moreso.

I just realized this post is a little scatterbrained, I hope I made any sense at all. I'm sure there were points in there somewhere... I didn't feel like "brats" were being represented very completely and wanted to share my personal experiences.

That's funny about bratty submissives teaching more obedient ones bad behavior, for some reason it reminds me of dogs and makes me chuckle. I've never considered being bratty with a Dom in public, and least not my most recent. I would be too embarrassed or ashamed. I really do want to please.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm sorry love, but if "expecting people to follow through" = brat, by that definition *I* am a brat. And I am about as non-brat as a human being can get.

Please please please in the journey of labeling things, please do not confuse honest to god needs and boundaries with "bratty behavior".

And I agree Homburg's description was thorough and well done. It actually helped me identify what I don't like about the "brat" dynamic - it reminds me too much of BPD. I'm not saying brats have BPD, or are BDP, but it reminds me of growing up in a BPD household, where the rules were never quite as solid as I needed them to be... it was an interesting revelation.

I turn into a raving bitch when my needs aren't met, though. So I suppose I could very well be a brat.

And I know about the BPD household. God, do I know. NPD, too. Crazy, crazy woman.

 

[where]

Drunk posting=Bad Ky.

I know... *hangs head in hangover shame*

anyway... found this...

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3a/f6/06f8228348a0da8b4de48110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and a bit from a book about it...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...old graphic novel&pg=PA27#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[CutieMouse]

Yeah hi typo... Sorry.

BPD= borderline personality disorder

 

[JMohegan]

Brat, when used to describe a subset of submissives (both by me, and in the elusive goddamned article that I can't find, but was endlessly revelatory), refers to a set of behaviours, attitudes, and personality quirks.

The big one is a desire for punishment/correction (a beating, in short), but a corresponding inability to ask for it in a functional manner. viv is perfectly comfortable with bending over and sticking her ass up if she wants a spanking. She doesn't do this often, but she can, and has. MIS will do likewise, and even ask. A brat, in this context, simply cannot.

There may be all sorts of underlying reasons, but the net effect is that the brat won't ask. But they need that correction. They need that strong hand guiding them. Feelings of insecurity, worthlessness, etc can be abated by a firm correction, but they can't ask outright, so they will act out. It is less of a matter of manipulation of topping from the bottom (a phrase I've come to despise because it is bandied about in such an asinine and accusatory fashion), and more a matter of flawed communication.

The idea being that communication of threat, or even verbal correction, has little weight in the emotional build of the brat. "Deeds, not words," is the rule in this situation. A strongly physical reminder is the communication that the brat craves.

Further, brats will often struggle, resist, and just flat not be all" lay back and suffer in dignified (and severely turned-on) silence" like the 'classic' submissive. They will fight you, they will act out more, and they can be an active pain. The reason being, is that they need that show of strength from the person they are with. They need to be reminded that this person is bigger, stronger, or simply more willful.

There can be a lot of playful fun to it, but there is just as likely to be a frenzied, dark, obsessive demand fueling the acting out.

A brat is a handful. They can be difficult as hell, and a whole lot of dominants have no desire to fuss with that much muss. But the ones that do enjoy an utterly different dynamic that, I would guess, satisfies a need. If I were to use an example, I would point to ataxia girl's descriptions of her relationship with Bigbill (I think that's his name. If not, my apologies). In many ways, I would say that 00syd probably fits it too.

What bugs me is how derogatory the label can be for many people.

The label is often derogatory because so many self-identified brats act out in front of other people.

I don't give a fuck what people do in the privacy of their own homes with consenting partners. But a brat, who either can't or won't control him/herself around others, is not someone most people want to hang out with. Not all self-identified brats do this, but the ones who do act out in public become the face of the persona.

 

[KoPilot]

But only my Dom would know that. I get bratty as a direct result of what? Insecurity. I'm insecure about a whole mess of things, which I won't list, but "acting out" as so many have lovingly referred to it is a primary means of communication when I break down. In my social (or public) life I don't come off as insecure or bratty, perhaps willful and bitchy sometimes but not really that reactive misbehavior I find myself doing when I think I'm losing. Heh, not very submissive of me, huh?

Basically this.

 

[KoPilot]

I know... *hangs head in hangover shame*

anyway... found this...

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3a/f6/06f8228348a0da8b4de48110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and a bit from a book about it...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...old graphic novel&pg=PA27#v=onepage&q&f=false

Ooooh! Must add it to my comic collection someday...

 

[KoPilot]

Yeah hi typo... Sorry.

BPD= borderline personality disorder

Oh. Sorry to hear about that. Having come from an... "unbalanced" household myself, I can definitely relate.

 

[VelvetSin]

Okay, so the last few days of everyone's posts have me thinking. The Domination Motivation thread was enlightening so far and I posted this.

Sometimes I do have trouble letting the public "assertive, give me what I want now" mask slip, but I don't see (or intentionally see) it as "acting out" for correction, it just happens. Is that "bratty"? He's joked about me being a brat but never in a serious tone, and doesn't seem to mind doing what needs doing to help peel away that exterior packaging. He seems to like it. I'll have to ask, soon. Either way, it's just "me" and I don't see how I could change it other than just settling into the role more comfortably (still new, so maybe that will come with time).

I'm not looking for a hard label, I'm just not sure if that's normal and am curious where the difference lies.

 

[SmallRabbit]

I'm certainly not qualified to make a determination on what's normal, but for me brattiness is exhibited by a number of behaviors including refusal or pleading out of a command or punishment (I have limited negotiation privileges but I mean when I say things like "I just can't!"), talking back, feeling so upset that I say things like "That's not fair!" or "You're just being mean!", etc.

 

[the captians wench]

Okay, so the last few days of everyone's posts have me thinking. The Domination Motivation thread was enlightening so far and I posted this.

Sometimes I do have trouble letting the public "assertive, give me what I want now" mask slip, but I don't see (or intentionally see) it as "acting out" for correction, it just happens. Is that "bratty"? He's joked about me being a brat but never in a serious tone, and doesn't seem to mind doing what needs doing to help peel away that exterior packaging. He seems to like it. I'll have to ask, soon. Either way, it's just "me" and I don't see how I could change it other than just settling into the role more comfortably (still new, so maybe that will come with time).

I'm not looking for a hard label, I'm just not sure if that's normal and am curious where the difference lies.

First of all, don't fall into the lable trap. It happens a lot to new people, including myself. It's this over whelming feeling like you need to be put into a box. I think it comes from years of being labled. We're labled from the day we're born and always try to fit one lable or another. "Brain", "Jock", "Nerd", "Hot" and so on. The truth of the matter is, we're all a little bit of everything.

Jounar used to call me his "cheeky bitch", for the longest time. I would smart off and get a playful scolding. He would some times "punish" me for very silly reasons.

As our relationship delevoped, we moved away from using "games" to let the other know what we want. It took a couple years, but eventually we grew comfortable with the fact that I like pain, hard pain, and he likes inflicting it. It opened up a whole new level for us, and was another way he got me to ask for things I want and need, both from him and from others in my life.

Now that's not to say every relationship will evolve that way, but for us "brat" was a good starting point for us to grow on. Some people are happy to stay in that mode, and some are happy to never be in that mode.

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'm a brat.
But only my Dom would know that. I get bratty as a direct result of what? Insecurity. I'm insecure about a whole mess of things, which I won't list, but "acting out" as so many have lovingly referred to it is a primary means of communication when I break down. In my social (or public) life I don't come off as insecure or bratty, perhaps willful and bitchy sometimes but not really that reactive misbehavior I find myself doing when I think I'm losing. Heh, not very submissive of me, huh?

Most of the time, I'm fairly well behaved. But on a few occasions, I have acted out badly, and out of character.

But the times I have, have pretty much been for these reasons. It's like I need a reminding of how things are, to make me feel safe and secure again. The one time I lost my shit with Mister, he basically controlled my tantrum so I didn't damage either of us, and let me go till I was exhausted. And then he pretty much dismissed it for the time being, and carried on with his original plan.

Then, he talked to me about it.

And it felt good, to know that I was safe.

I'm working on realising when I'm getting like that though, so I can kind of head it off at the pass. I don't enjoy carrying on like a 5 year old.

 

[SmallRabbit]

Aw...how kind of him!
Sometimes I feel like he's trying to trick me, because he makes me tell him just how mad I am at him and how scared I feel... But then it ends up feeling so wonderful emotionally and I end up stronger and more even keel at the end.

 

[KoPilot]

I do my very best to avoid acting badly, whether unintentionally or otherwise. If I'm feeling any kind of negative emotion that could cause me to lash out or even just be a bad conversationalist, I'll tell him exactly how I feel in plain, polite english, and apologize. If he did something that made me feel that way, then it's doubly important that I let him know.

I really only turn into a smart-ass when I know we're both in good spirits. My biggest fear is becoming a burden to him in any way, so the idea of giving him a hard time when he's in anything but the best of moods makes me balk.

 

[VelvetSin]

First of all, don't fall into the lable trap. It happens a lot to new people, including myself.

I'm trying not to, but it is helpful to know what they mean and how they translate since people use them so frequently, and not always in the same context. Just trying to learn.

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

Oh, definitely that! I know we'll eventually hit a rough spot, it just makes sense that we will since every relationship does (and we've had a few normal relationship ones before now), but after four years together it's been so eye opening. He never hid his interest and involvement but I never realized how integral it was to Who and What He is and it just made me more grateful that He was willing to wait for *me* until I was ready. I could go on about what a sexy man it makes him, but I'll leave it with I've never laughed (and done many other things!) so much in my life as I have recently.

 

[Homburg]

And I agree Homburg's description was thorough and well done. It actually helped me identify what I don't like about the "brat" dynamic - it reminds me too much of BPD. I'm not saying brats have BPD, or are BDP, but it reminds me of growing up in a BPD household, where the rules were never quite as solid as I needed them to be... it was an interesting revelation.

Interesting connection.

--

I just googled BDP and all I got was "Boogie Down Productions".

An excellent old school East Coast hip hop act fronted by the Teacher, KRS-One.

But, to quote Alton Brown, that's a topic for another show...

--

But only my Dom would know that. I get bratty as a direct result of what? Insecurity. I'm insecure about a whole mess of things, which I won't list, but "acting out" as so many have lovingly referred to it is a primary means of communication when I break down. In my social (or public) life I don't come off as insecure or bratty, perhaps willful and bitchy sometimes but not really that reactive misbehavior I find myself doing when I think I'm losing. Heh, not very submissive of me, huh?

But that's how I am. I used to entertain the idea of acting out in order to receive punishment but have recently gotten to have experiences with a Dom who actually knows how to punish, so that's currently a bad idea. Acting out with him has NEVER earned me a thorough spanking, just punishment that makes me feel little and think he's mean. I don't want punishment. I want leniency, understanding, compassion...but not really. I really desire a firm hand and swift correction that I'm not allowed to talk my way out of. Because this is how I grow. My insecurities are what I want to have manipulated and shaped because I clearly don't deal with them, for me submissiveness is as much about psychological dynamics and rewards as it is sex, or moreso.

I just realized this post is a little scatterbrained, I hope I made any sense at all. I'm sure there were points in there somewhere... I didn't feel like "brats" were being represented very completely and wanted to share my personal experiences.

This was the exact idea I was trying to relate. The mentality really is one that shows some very consistent traits across many different people.

Thank you for sharing.

--

The label is often derogatory because so many self-identified brats act out in front of other people.

I don't give a fuck what people do in the privacy of their own homes with consenting partners. But a brat, who either can't or won't control him/herself around others, is not someone most people want to hang out with. Not all self-identified brats do this, but the ones who do act out in public become the face of the persona.

Just like Bin Ladin became the public face of Islam by acting out, right? And of course the actions of the misbehaving few justify the application of derision across the entire demographic.

 

[JMohegan]

Just like Bin Ladin became the public face of Islam by acting out, right? And of course the actions of the misbehaving few justify the application of derision across the entire demographic.

Comparing bratty behavior to mass murder seems unnecessarily inflammatory to me.

What's your best guess as to the percentage of self-identified brats who confine bratty behavior solely to private encounters between the brat and his/her partner?