Mental stages of a scene?

[YinandYang]

Last night when we were playing, my SO started to use the crop, for me this is the worst and the best, mixed emotion about this one. So far its the only form of pain that tips me into a strange place. All the other times we have gotten to the point where I couldn't really take much more, although never said the safe word, but SO realises and stops. Then the strange feeling hits, after its all stopped. Everything goes millions of miles away, I can't really speak or react to what he says. He will ask me if I am ok, but my reaction time is way behind what it should be. I then have a HUGE need to just be in his arms, would climb inside him if it were possible. Anyway....always this has happened after the playing has stopped. But last night it happened during. One minute I was jerking around feeling the pain, my body was reacting, next minute I was just still. Then everything faded, my awareness of the situation diminished and basically I got to a 'couldn't give a shit' stage.

He stopped a while after he realised I was not reacting....and then did the aftercare thing. But my worry is....what happens if you are in this state and unable to communicate that enough is enough, or even worse not know when enough is enough. Is it completely up to the Dom/me to look out for this and react accordingly?

I am also wondering about the various stages, and if they occur like clockwork or if everyone is different? What is the next stage to this feeling, does it carry on or do you get to another level? I realise everyone is different, and that I am just really finding out about these things, but it worries me that the communication is not paramount for me at these times.

The bottom line is, I like being there and the feeling it brings and with hindsight I know I could go further. But, and a huge but, I don't have the ability to say the safeword at those times, which really should be the most important times to say it!

So....how do you handle it? Do you have to put total trust in your SO and hope that they read the signs well enough to know when to stop? Or is it generally safe to carry on, but slower. Are there various mental stages that a sub goes through as a matter of course?

 

[Kajira Callista]

Last night when we were playing, my SO started to use the crop, for me this is the worst and the best, mixed emotion about this one. So far its the only form of pain that tips me into a strange place. All the other times we have gotten to the point where I couldn't really take much more, although never said the safe word, but SO realizes and stops. Then the strange feeling hits, after its all stopped. Everything goes millions of miles away, I can't really speak or react to what he says. He will ask me if I am ok, but my reaction time is way behind what it should be. I then have a HUGE need to just be in his arms, would climb inside him if it were possible. Anyway....always this has happened after the playing has stopped. But last night it happened during. One minute I was jerking around feeling the pain, my body was reacting, next minute I was just still. Then everything faded, my awareness of the situation diminished and basically I got to a 'couldn't give a shit' stage.

He stopped a while after he realized I was not reacting....and then did the aftercare thing. But my worry is....what happens if you are in this state and unable to communicate that enough is enough, or even worse not know when enough is enough. Is it completely up to the Dom/me to look out for this and react accordingly?

I am also wondering about the various stages, and if they occur like clockwork or if everyone is different? What is the next stage to this feeling, does it carry on or do you get to another level? I realize everyone is different, and that I am just really finding out about these things, but it worries me that the communication is not paramount for me at these times.

The bottom line is, I like being there and the feeling it brings and with hindsight I know I could go further. But, and a huge but, I don't have the ability to say the safe word at those times, which really should be the most important times to say it!

So....how do you handle it? Do you have to put total trust in your SO and hope that they read the signs well enough to know when to stop? Or is it generally safe to carry on, but slower. Are there various mental stages that a sub goes through as a matter of course?

My opinion would be that if you cant speak during that stage of things go slow, he has to read you to know when its too much and he has to get used to doing it if you haven't been there before. I found that in the beginning when i would get there (another one who loses the ability to speak) and it felt so good, i never wanted it to end. And when he would end it because he felt it was enough i would get mad lol. After a while i realized that i would get there again an accepted that he knew better then me and if it was time to stop i wouldn't be upset by it.

 

[SueJ]

One minute I was jerking around feeling the pain, my body was reacting, next minute I was just still. Then everything faded, my awareness of the situation diminished and basically I got to a 'couldn't give a shit' stage.

He stopped a while after he realised I was not reacting....and then did the aftercare thing. But my worry is....what happens if you are in this state and unable to communicate that enough is enough, or even worse not know when enough is enough.

Thank you so much for bringing this up. I too wanted to discuss this topic, but had a tough time with the idea of starting a thread about it.

This happened to me too recently, in some morning love-play before my husband went to work. It scared me nearly to death and honestly, I hope to never go there again. It happened totally by accident. He left the room just for a minute when I was bound, but I was doing okay. Intense pain set in fast---in just a few seconds while he was in the bathroom. I became disoriented very quickly and couldn't react to call him in; also, I didn't want him to panic needlessly, or to think that I had. Then my mind seemed to separate from my body once the pain went well past my limit, and I mentally disengaged from the scene and remember nothing. Next thing I knew, bindings were gone and he was sitting beside me and stroking my hair, asking if I was okay. I smiled at him and said everything was fine. I felt no pain. (In fact, I felt nothing at all----totally numb, like a casual observer on the scene.) He smiled back and said he was leaving for work, kissed me goodbye, and was gone. I was alone.

Within a few minutes, pain started returning and my body got very cold. The pain became mean and throbbing, and I was shivering like crazy, with the room temp up to 74 and the heat blasting. I was in a head space that was unbearable to tackle alone and hard to describe. I had to handle the after-care myself, and being alone at that time was perhaps the most painful part.

I never did tell him what happened. He would feel terrible, and I can't bear to bring that on him; it wasn't his fault. I don't really think it would be a good thing for him to know. But I know for sure that I'll NEVER let myself be left bound and alone again, even for a minute. A minute can be like an eternity if things go wrong.

Like you, when I reached that point where I mentally disconnected from the scene, I was unable to utter a safe word or anything else. I wasn't even really present at that point. That's a pretty scary thought. I have no desire to return to that head space ever again.

I am also wondering about the various stages, and if they occur like clockwork or if everyone is different?

Yes, I wonder this too, and hope others will respond.

The bottom line is, I like being there and the feeling it brings and with hindsight I know I could go further. But, and a huge but, I don't have the ability to say the safeword at those times, which really should be the most important times to say it!

Right. I don't let myself go past the point where I could say it anymore. Like you, I could have let somebody kill me at that point. <shudder> In my case, it was a total accident that the scene brought me there by his absence, but perhaps it was an important lesson for me to learn. I hope I remember it!

 

[YinandYang]

This happened to me too recently, in some morning love-play before my husband went to work. It scared me nearly to death and honestly, I hope to never go there again. It happened totally by accident. He left the room just for a minute when I was bound, but I was doing okay. Intense pain set in fast---in just a few seconds while he was in the bathroom. I became disoriented very quickly and couldn't react to call him in; also, I didn't want him to panic needlessly, or to think that I had. Then my mind seemed to separate from my body once the pain went well past my limit, and I mentally disengaged from the scene and remember nothing. Next thing I knew, bindings were gone and he was sitting beside me and stroking my hair, asking if I was okay. I smiled at him and said everything was fine. I felt no pain. (In fact, I felt nothing at all----totally numb, like a casual observer on the scene.) He smiled back and said he was leaving for work, kissed me goodbye, and was gone. I was alone.

Thanks for sharing your experience Sue, I can imagine how horrible it must have been to be in that 'state' and have to cope with it alone. I think if that ever happened to me, it would flip the nice sensation into something bad. I have never taken drugs voluntarily, but have been spiked in the past (E's I beleive)....and I remember the sensation well, from being fun and spaced out to feeling terrible. I liken this experience to that, although because my SO is there I do feel protected and looked after.

Maybe you should have a sit down with your SO and discuss what happened, tell him it wasn't his fault, but if it happens again he can be prepared for it. Communication I think is paramount, because when times hit like the situation above, and its hard to communicate, thats when its needed most.

I am finding that with certain ways of playing, mostly when the routine is the same I am getting to that point of strangeness quicker and deeper. Because of this reason we have made it a rule only to play when we know we will be spending the night together, the deeper it gets the longer I seem to need to come back. I couldn't do it without the trust thats for sure

Edited to say.... thanks kajira, I have showed my SO your reply and we will be taking on board about going slowly. He has a very good intuition, and is good at reading me, so I think that will help loads.

 

[Quint]

I think I've gone through that sensation you described. I disconnect and just sit and stare for a long time. It does happen after play that pushed me a little too far, physically or mentally, and it's really troubling. I guess I just assumed I wasn't dealing with it well or something. Nice to know I'm not the only one that's done it.

 

[Kajira Callista]

you all know that what you all are describing is a physical/chemical reaction to play......dontcha?

 

[YinandYang]

you all know that what you all are describing is a physical/chemical reaction to play......dontcha?

Yes....I haven't had a bad reaction from it, but felt amazing, not scared paraniod or lost or anything. Just very protected, content and wow lol

 

[vacant]

you all know that what you all are describing is a physical/chemical reaction to play......dontcha?

Bingo! Thank you. *chuckles*

Ladies and gents, welcome to subspace…or being subbed out…or dissociating…etc., etc.. Call it what you want, its basically your mind's way of dealing with what your body is going through. Take the physical response and the mind fuck that always (for me, at least) goes with it, and add in all the adrenaline, endorphins, and such that kick in, particularly with pain play, and your mind is likely gonna take off. I love this effect. If I could get it in pill form, I'd be the happiest addict y'ever did see.

Do you have to completely trust your SO/Dom/me/whip wielder/whathaveyou? *twitches* YES! What the hell are you doin' putting yourself in such a position if you don't? If you're gonna put your ass on the line (literally or otherwise), put it in the hands of someone you trust. And when in such a vulnerable position, your partner's gotta be able to read your reactions and know when enough is enough. Otherwise, it can be pretty traumatic. Nothing ruins a perfectly good session than a panic attack.

And if things're moving too fast, speak! Its not a race, and if you're worried about the guilt he/she may feel over one bad session…imagine the guilt after two, three, ten bad sessions.

Didn't intend to get all preachy, but there y'go.

 

[grace9]

Yinandyang

Y&Y....This is such an excellent thread....thanks for bringing it up. I was wondering about this myself. Had my first experiences with subspace the last few weeks. Didn't know WHAT was happening...felt like I was on some amazing drug! Boy, to bottle that feeling and make a million!!!

I'm new to this and what got me there was pretty light physically and I thought it wasn't possible with so little and at times no physical contact to actually achieve the sensation....then I disengaged...my partner (had to tell me later what happened) got very concerned but was patient and loving and made sure I was all right. I couldn't speak...think...or care....just kind of checked out to a "happy" place and didn't want to come back.

Y&Y WROTE:
"He stopped a while after he realised I was not reacting....and then did the aftercare thing. But my worry is....what happens if you are in this state and unable to communicate that enough is enough, or even worse not know when enough is enough. Is it completely up to the Dom/me to look out for this and react accordingly?"

Though I've just started I think it was up to him at that point. It's part of where the whole trust issue for me comes in to play in the first place. Why would I need to trust him so much if there was little to put in his care, right? In that moment, it is where I truly "belonged" to him in every way, my safety literally in the palm of his hand. In hindsight this is part of the beauty of the experience and of what mentally allowed my "travel" so to speak. Like sleeping in the passenger seat when you know you've got a good driver at the wheel (but a LOT more fun LOL). You've got to trust them to watch for the bumps in the road....

Neither of us expected my head to pop off....roll under the table...fill with ether and float away....LOL...but it did. And I was sure in no position to do anything about it. I am very pleased that he handled the situation so well. Since we are still new to each other his watchfulness over me and tender care only deepened the trust I already had in him.

The only thing I could think of the next day was the title of Milan Kundera's novel to describe it..."The Unbearable Lightness of Being"...kind of summed up the sensation for me...not sure completely why but it just fit.

If he wasn't as much of a guardian in that moment I don't know if I would have wanted to go back to that out of body experience. It made me more comfortable to know he was watching the store while I went "fishin'..."

Grace~

 

[YinandYang]

Bingo! Thank you. *chuckles*

Ladies and gents, welcome to subspace…or being subbed out…or dissociating…etc., etc.. Call it what you want, its basically your mind's way of dealing with what your body is going through. Take the physical response and the mind fuck that always (for me, at least) goes with it, and add in all the adrenaline, endorphins, and such that kick in, particularly with pain play, and your mind is likely gonna take off. I love this effect. If I could get it in pill form, I'd be the happiest addict y'ever did see.

Do you have to completely trust your SO/Dom/me/whip wielder/whathaveyou? *twitches* YES! What the hell are you doin' putting yourself in such a position if you don't? If you're gonna put your ass on the line (literally or otherwise), put it in the hands of someone you trust. And when in such a vulnerable position, your partner's gotta be able to read your reactions and know when enough is enough. Otherwise, it can be pretty traumatic. Nothing ruins a perfectly good session than a panic attack.

And if things're moving too fast, speak! Its not a race, and if you're worried about the guilt he/she may feel over one bad session…imagine the guilt after two, three, ten bad sessions.

Didn't intend to get all preachy, but there y'go.

Its not a question of trust for me, I trust my partner implicitly...its the experience factor. It takes time for experience to grow, that can't be gained after one session (or months of in my case). My point is that subspace or whatever anyone wants to call it has always happened after the scene has stopped. For the first time the other night it happened during . Thats what my question is about, if you carry on, say at a slower pace....is their another step or space that is attained?

My SO is interested to know if playtime should be stopped once 'subspace' has been attained, or whether its safe to carry on, in general terms, of course as I know everyone is different.

As for the speaking bit....thats exactly why I am asking this question, because I don't speak coherently at those times! And by the looks of it, nor do many people that have answered the thread.

I am aware of the chemical reactions involved during playtime, its the things that come after, if at all...and whether playtime should be slowed or stopped at that point.

 

[vacant]

Its not a question of trust for me, I trust my partner implicitly...its the experience factor. It takes time for experience to grow, that can't be gained after one session (or months of in my case). My point is that subspace or whatever anyone wants to call it has always happened after the scene has stopped. For the first time the other night it happened during . Thats what my question is about, if you carry on, say at a slower pace....is their another step or space that is attained?

My SO is interested to know if playtime should be stopped once 'subspace' has been attained, or whether its safe to carry on, in general terms, of course as I know everyone is different.

As for the speaking bit....thats exactly why I am asking this question, because I don't speak coherently at those times! And by the looks of it, nor do many people that have answered the thread.

I am aware of the chemical reactions involved during playtime, its the things that come after, if at all...and whether playtime should be slowed or stopped at that point.

D'oh! My bad. I should've been more specific in my reply, as I was replying to a number of posts.

If there's another space/stage that comes after 'subspace', I haven't been there. Save for unconsciousness, I can't imagine what it'd be. LOL I have what I guess I'd call different levels of subspace, which vary depending on the intensity and length of the scene, but thats me.

As for the inability to communicate, are you just unable to speak, or are you just completely gone? If you're able, you might try coming up with a different signal to be used in lieu of your safeword when you're unable to speak (i.e., a chain in your hand that you can drop if it gets to be too much, snap your fingers, etc.). When I first started exploring this feeling myself, this worked to a point (I was given a length of chain), but once I reached the deeper "levels", I wasn't present enough to do any signaling of any kind. Hell, I couldn't even hang on to the chain, and was quite pissed when he stopped after I'd accidentally dropped it. LOL But after I'd been through it a few times and knew (kinda) what was happening, I loved the experiences of my mind going off to its happy place, so I didn't care, and soon gave up the chain.

Whether its safe to continue I'd say depends on you, and whether you enjoy it or not. Given your reply to another post,

Yes....I haven't had a bad reaction from it, but felt amazing, not scared paraniod or lost or anything. Just very protected, content and wow lol

…I'd go for it! LOL

When I said to speak up, I meant after the fact. I know its difficult to do so during a scene, as I also become completely incoherent. The comment I made was in reference to SueJ's post.

I never did tell him what happened. He would feel terrible, and I can't bear to bring that on him; it wasn't his fault. I don't really think it would be a good thing for him to know. But I know for sure that I'll NEVER let myself be left bound and alone again, even for a minute. A minute can be like an eternity if things go wrong.

 

[SueJ]

When I said to speak up, I meant after the fact. I know its difficult to do so during a scene, as I also become completely incoherent. The comment I made was in reference to SueJ's post.

Yes, I suspected that you were referring to my post, and actually, I wasn't going to reply. However, since it's been brought up again and the finger pointed.....

After 21 blissfully happy years with the same Master, I think I've got a pretty good grip on when it's best to speak up and when it's not a productive thing to do in our relationship. Knowing your partner very well in these situations is very important specifically for the reason that what is right to do for a particular person or a particular situation may not be the right thing to do for a different person/situation.

You said:

if you're worried about the guilt he/she may feel over one bad session…imagine the guilt after two, three, ten bad sessions.

How many bad sessions do you think we've had in over 21 years? lol...Plenty. They are inevitable. They happen. You learn over time how best to deal with them with each other. That method of 'dealing' will not be the same unilaterally from couple to couple; each couple/scene is different.

And as for this:

And when in such a vulnerable position, your partner's gotta be able to read your reactions and know when enough is enough.

If you think there's anybody who can read your mind 100% of the time, you are wrong. Even the most trusted, loving and communicative partners experience the small percentage of times where they have misread each other. Granted, I am speaking from my own experience. I can honestly say that after all these years together, my husband cannot read my mind 100% of the time, nor can I read his. So when you get into that zone where you are unable to communicate, things can go wrong, and on rare occasions, do go awry. It doesn't mean that you can't trust your partner; it just means that the partner is not perfect nor a mind-reader every single time. You take what you've learned from the situation, deal with it in the best way you know how based on your experience with that partner, and move onto the next. Expecting anybody to be able to read your mind 100% of the time is, IMO, a mistake. There will always be some margin of error in mind-reading.

In that particular situation, with my particular partner, I have no doubt that I did the right thing by not discussing it. This one is something for me to fix, not him.

Sue

 

[YinandYang]

The only thing I could think of the next day was the title of Milan Kundera's novel to describe it..."The Unbearable Lightness of Being"...kind of summed up the sensation for me...not sure completely why but it just fit.

If he wasn't as much of a guardian in that moment I don't know if I would have wanted to go back to that out of body experience. It made me more comfortable to know he was watching the store while I went "fishin'..."

Grace~

I understand completely those feelings....think I now know what it is to really crave something and someone ... ...it runs so much deeper than any nilla relationship I ever had for sure, very spiritual