Martial Arts

[Nomadic Lady]

I would like to send my three year old son to a Martial Arts School but would like to go prepared on what question's to ask them. So are there any folks here that may be able to please help me with what questions I should ask.

THANX

 

[mritsme]

make sure they are strong on teaching only for self defence strongly and not just fighting

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Ask what their atitude to Martial Arts is. If they just say it is gaining skills to defend themselves and they don't mention strengthening the inner soul and bring peace to the inner self look closely at the school.

Karate is just not about learning to fight.

 

[Lost Cause]

question...

What form of Martial Arts are you enrolling them in? Some are bogus, and only teach rigid "katas" or moves. Kung fu and it's styles are more flowing in movement, and require more self-awareness, and control. You also have the mainstream diciplines, Karate/Aikido/Tai-Kwon-Do/Judo/Hapkido and some offshoot of those. One question to ask the "instructors" is if they emphasis the development of "Chi." (Chee) That is the foundation of all forms of self-defense from the Orient.
The student practicing chi finds more pleasure in controlling it and channeling it, than actual combat exercises. Tai Chi is the exercise that thousands of people are finding beneficial in mind-body harmony, and it's emphasis is on the flowing chi.
Reevaluate your motives for the school, is it to develop mental dicipline? Is it for your child to be able to defend themselves and others? Is it the result of seeing someone in the movies use it? (Karate Kid/Steven Segal/Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan/Jet Li)
Schooling in the right art requires a great deal of time from the student, it is not like band practice. It is not for "bragging rights." Choose carefully! Good luck!

 

[SweetCherry]

When I was in High School and babysitting all the time, one family I babysat for had a rather hyperactive son. They enrolled him in Tae Kwon Do (or how ever it's spelled) when he was about 6. It made a remarkable change in him. He became more in control of himself and more respectful and obedient of his parents. Some kids I think need it to properly focus theirr minds on self control. Just MHO.

 

[Guest]

Forget martial arts.
Just give your kid fully loaded Uzi-sub machine gun!

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

I would like to send my three year old son to a Martial Arts School but would like to go prepared on what question's to ask them. So are there any folks here that may be able to please help me with what questions I should ask.

THANX

I cannot agree more with the suggestions I have seen so far. In addition, I would recommend a dojo that allows you to "try it out" for at least two weeks at a minimum or no charge. A reputable dojo will do this. Watching the conduct of the classes will also help you in making your decision.


Three sounds a little young though. Most schools in my area wait until at least age five before taking on a student, mostly due to instruction and coordination issues.

 

[70/30]

Forget martial arts.
Just give your kid fully loaded Uzi-sub machine gun!

No shit where I come from "self defence" is just for the pussified knob polishers. The Uzi is an idea but it can still get jammed, you need several kill moves to survive over the long haul.

 

[Susano]

Everybody above me has brought up very good points, even Chilled Vodka--Make sure your child understands that if he shows any of what he's learned at school, even just demonstrating to friends, he could be suspended or expelled in today's climate. If he shows it outside school, he could become the target of a bully who "wants to see how well it works."

Decide your primary objective. Japan has two martial categories: Martial arts, or jutsu, and martial ways, or budo. The former focus on fighting, the latter on spiritual development through the form of the former.
Lost Cause gave a good survey of Oriental arts; but keep in mind if you have any religious reservations about chi or meditation you might want to choose a newer, more self-defense oriented style like Israel's Krav Maja, Russia's Systema, or the American S.C.A.R.S. combat system.

If not, you have a vast array of choices.
The Japanese and Chinese arts Lost Cause covered have Chi. There's a huge number of arts known collectively as Pentjak Silat that come from a Muslim tradition. You might not want to start out a 3 year old on Filipino Martial arts such as Kali or Escrima, since they start teaching with weapons before moving on to barehanded techniques, but they have their mystic side as well. Even La Savate has an intangible quality/technique they call "panache" (a little different from the standard definition).

Once you've found the art and are looking for the teacher, I'd suggest asking questions based on what you'd like your son to get out of his learning, plus one more: If they have any kind of guarantee like "Black Belt in under 5 years" I'd look for another school. That school isn't interested in teaching him budo or jutsu.

 

[Aootkast]

Like the one person said earlier, look at why you are putting your child in the class. If it is to learn self-defense then you have to be really careful of the school and style you choose for him. Most schools that I’ve seen tell you they are teaching self-defense but all they really teach is sport fighting for tournaments. Some styles are more aggressive and shouldn’t be taught to smaller children. If you are enrolling your son for health and dexterity reasons then most any style will do.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Martial Arts

I cannot agree more with the suggestions I have seen so far.

Well, I can agree and disagree: so far a number of people have suggested to go to those schools that also teach the philosophical side of martial arts, including chi. As a Christian I would say that depending on what you want taught to your child you may or may not want a school to teach such philosophical aspects of martial arts.

I am not going to get into a debate about whether these are good philosophies/ideas/etc. to be teaching your child - the thing I am trying to point out is that many schools do indeed teach these things, and that for some people such as myself, these teachings conflict with our religious beliefs, and we may not want these things taught to our children.

You may wish to learn just what these beliefs are first before submitting your child to their teachings. Maybe not.

Can martial arts be effectively taught without such philosophies? Most assuredly, the military and various law enforcement agencies do it all the time (this is mostly where I have learned). The physical aspects of martial arts are just as effective without the belief systems many schools teach behind them. My daughter has been taught martial arts, as have I, without the philosophical teachings and the physical principles alone do work. I am not as skilled or as practiced as Lost Cause, but then I never really had the need to be.

Three sounds a little young though. Most schools in my area wait until at least age five before taking on a student, mostly due to instruction and coordination issues.

I would agree with this, besides instructional and coordination issues, there are also issues with regards to bone and muscle growth for young children.

 

[Lost Cause]

A complex question..

Mediation is a common form of all religions, it is said that it provides the practioner a "center" for their awareness. We have biofeedback being taught for medical treatment. In combat training you are taught to "separate" yourself from your injuries, in birthing classes, mother's are taught breathing and focus exercises. The meta-physical aspects of humans are still under investigation, with some remarkable feats performed in the "right mind". I don't see a conflict with Western religion.

Ch'i or qi (pronounced "chee" and henceforth spelled "chi") is the Chinese word used to describe "the natural energy of the Universe." This energy, though called "natural," is spiritual or supernatural, and is part of a metaphysical, not an empirical, belief system. Chi is thought to permeate all things, including the human body. Such metaphysical systems are generally referred to as types of vitalism. One of the key concepts related to chi is the concept of harmony. Trouble, whether in the universe or in the body, is a function of disharmony, of things being out of balance and in need of restoration to equilibrium.

Vitalism is a popular philosophy in many cultures. Thus, chi has many counterparts: prana (India and therapeutic touch), ki (Japan); Wilhelm Reich's orgone, Bergson's élan vital (vital force), to name just a few.

Where do you think Lucas came up with the definition of the "force?"

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Re: Re: Re: Martial Arts

Well, I can agree and disagree: so far a number of people have suggested to go to those schools that also teach the philosophical side of martial arts, including chi. As a Christian I would say that depending on what you want taught to your child you may or may not want a school to teach such philosophical aspects of martial arts.

I am not going to get into a debate about whether these are good philosophies/ideas/etc. to be teaching your child - the thing I am trying to point out is that many schools do indeed teach these things, and that for some people such as myself, these teachings conflict with our religious beliefs, and we may not want these things taught to our children.

You may wish to learn just what these beliefs are first before submitting your child to their teachings. Maybe not.

Can martial arts be effectively taught without such philosophies? Most assuredly, the military and various law enforcement agencies do it all the time (this is mostly where I have learned). The physical aspects of martial arts are just as effective without the belief systems many schools teach behind them. My daughter has been taught martial arts, as have I, without the philosophical teachings and the physical principles alone do work. I am not as skilled or as practiced as Lost Cause, but then I never really had the need to be.

I would agree with this, besides instructional and coordination issues, there are also issues with regards to bone and muscle growth for young children.

I beleive that philosophy, spiituality, and religion are three distinct things. That being said, I will agree that religious teachings are best left out of the dojo.

I do not think that holding up the military and law enforcement teaching of martial arts are an appropriate example here for the simple reason that they invovle teaching combat skills to adults, who presumably already possesss the requisite code of conduct necessary to avoid abusing the knowledge.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Martial Arts

I beleive that philosophy, spiituality, and religion are three distinct things.

You believe - right there you are diverging with what other people believe. I believe that religion, for many people, myself included, is a form of philosophy, and spirituality how many people practice religion. Obviously they are different words, but they are related. All I am saying is that some martial arts schools teach philosophies which may conflict with some religious teachings - especially mine. I am very careful about exposing children to philosophical teachings I do not agree with. OTOH, this may not be an issue with NL - I was just raising the issue for awareness.

I do not think that holding up the military and law enforcement teaching of martial arts are an appropriate example here for the simple reason that they invovle teaching combat skills to adults, who presumably already possesss the requisite code of conduct necessary to avoid abusing the knowledge.

Well, whether most adults have that "requisite code of conduct" or not is debatable, but this code of conduct can be taught to children without getting into eastern philosophies.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: A complex question..

Where do you think Lucas came up with the definition of the "force?"

I am well aware of where such teachings come from and what they consist of. I am also aware that they conflict with my religious beliefs and do not wish them taught to any children that I am responsible for before those children are taught Critical Thinking and how to discriminate between different religious teachings.

 

[Rambrat]

ask how long it should take to KICK someones ASS!


Lol...I'm kidding...

 

[Lost Cause]

To teach one to channel their inner energy, or produce higher willpower is the essential of what I was instructed. We were never asked to pray to Chinese gods or spirits. My Master was careful to explain the differences between Chi and religion, most of us were Christians, and brought up that question. Chi develops the inner self, like the energy you create when running a marathon and continue when everything says you can't. It's almost a self-hypnosis of awareness of where you are at that split second. I still use that awareness when going about my daily business. I do believe that everything has some sort of energy, as we are bombarded with it all the time. I think in the future, the more we discover about Chi, people will relax their religious objections to it.

 

[Tap-Out]

I think 3 is a little young for children to be enrolled in any martial arts school. A lot of kids that age do not have the attention span, or dicipline to follow the instructor, and you would probably end up wasteing your money. You should wait a couple more years (5 or 6) and see if they are ineterestd then.

If you are going to enroll them anyway you should ask how ofton they meet, will they be put with children their own age, what is the instructor's qualifications (teaching, not how many tournaments he/she may have won), how long they have been teaching, have they ever taught any other children that age (but if you walk in and there are all kinds of 3yos in gis then you probably already know the answer to that one).

That's about all I can think of.

 

[Susano]

ask how long it should take to KICK someones ASS!


Lol...I'm kidding...

"Tae Kwon Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever toward the horizon"

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I think in the future, the more we discover about Chi, people will relax their religious objections to it.

Or increase their objections to it. There are "Christians" who believe many different things do not conflict with their "Christianity" - things from believe that AIDS is a punishment of gays by God, that only white people are human, to believing that each and everyone of us is a God or Goddess, to believing that God is an impersonal force, to believing that Christ was only a prophet and not a Messiah. That is their right to believe what they wish.

Look, suffice it to say that there are people who are well aware of what the basics of different teachings are, and that they find they do not agree with those teachings, and they do not want them taught to their children before they are old enough to differentiate the different teachings for themselves.

I said I didn't want to get into whether these teachings were valid or not, as that is really irrelevant to the purpose of this thread. My only purpose was to raise an issue that some may or may not have been aware of. If you find that it doesn't conflict with your religious beliefs then that is for you to decide, I in turn find that they do conflict with my religious beliefs and do not want them taught to my children. That is the issue.

 

[Susano]

Don't forget; for many Christians it's not just Chi, it's the whole kit 'n kaboodle.

MARTIAL ARTS

THE TRUTH BEHIND IT

DECEPTION
Martial arts is not just a harmless method of exercising or ‘letting of steam’ as in sport or keep-fit but is in reality a highly dangerous occult deception and one so cleverly disguised, that even many practitioners have little or no idea of the dangers and risks involved.

LET THEM THAT HAVE EARS TO HEAR….HEAR!

The word ‘MARTIAL’ means ‘ OF WARFARE’ or ‘SUITABLE FOR WARFARE’. Martial Arts techniques were developed in India, China and later in Korea and Japan.

They are all forms of combat (usually unarmed) and are grouped together under names such as "KUNG-FU" (China), "TAEKWONDO" (Korea), AIKIDO, KARATE, JUDO (Japan).

The word ‘ARTS’ indicates that they are not just forms of combat but expressions of EASTERN ‘SPIRITUAL’ Philosophies and it is this ‘SPIRITUAL LINK’ which lights the fuse to a deadly keg of ‘SPIRITUAL, PHYSICAL AND MENTAL DYNAMITE!

In the words of Fred Neff (Author of "Hand Fighting Manual"),

"UNDERSTANDING OF BOTH THE PHYSICAL AND THE PHILOSOPHICAL PRINCIPLES IS REQUIRED OF EVERY MARTIAL ARTS STUDENT."

In these days of growing spiritual darkness and confusion with "Everyman doing that which is right IN HIS OWN EYES", (Judges, 21:25) we ask you to compare what you are about to read, with the LIGHT and TRUTH of God’s word – the Bible – and in particular, the words of Jesus Christ himself who said, "Resist NOT evil; whosoever smites you on your right cheek, TURN TO HIM THE OTHER ALSO" and – "all they that take the sword, SHALL PERISH WITH THE SWORD." "Know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall make you FREE". Judge for yourself, our task is to warn you – the rest is you to you….

May the truth set YOU free.

THE SPIRIT WORLD

It is believed ;by ‘MARTIAL ARTS’ instructors, that through a series of repetitive physical exercises, access can be gained to a realm known as the "SPIRIT WORLD", where tremendous power is available to the practitioner.

NOTE: This belief is common to all Occult Philosophy, including Yoga, T.M., Taoism, Spiritism, Zen (Buddhism), etc and it is the height of foolishness to think that a person can engage in just the physical aspects (branches) of 'Martial Arts’, (Judo, Yoga and so on) without being drawn into the deeper Spiritual Realm (The Root).

THE BRANCHES CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM THE ROOT!

As he enters this ‘ Spirit World; the practitioner believes that this dynamic power, known as ‘Ki’ is actually a force within HIM and that HE is in control. In reality he has entered a realm expressly forbidden by ALMIGHTY GOD, who declares in HIS WORD – THE BIBLE – that this is the realm of demonic power over which Satan – The devil reigns!

HERE SATAN IS IN CONTROL!

Everything to do with ‘Martial Arts’ will lead further and further into demonic bondage and deception –SO BE WARNED –

GOD SAYS, "THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME." (Exodus 20:3).

We are told by one female expert for self defence (Black belt) that "The techniques of ‘Martial Arts’ (including Judo) have their origin in the SPIRITS OF ANIMALS, such as Tigers, Cobras, Monkeys, Bears etc and the student is encouraged to TAKE ON THE SPIRIT UNDERLYING THE TECHNIQUE IE BECOME A COBRA, TIGER etc. In the same book, the author encourages women to fight back by "Pressing their attacker’s eyes into their brains" OR "Paralyzing them with a kick in the groin" OR "Making them dance with the threat of breaking a little finger" (Kaleghl Quinn – "Stand Your Ground’).

"Even the voice" she says, can be used to damage an ear drum."

ANTI-CHRIST

IF ALL THIS WERE NOT ENOUGH – JUDGE AGAIN FOR YOURSELF

AIKIDO – A coupling of ‘Martial Arts’ and Buddhist Meditation.

HAPKIDO – Combined traditional ‘ Arts’ used by warriors of feudal Korea.

KARATE – Meaning ‘Open Hand’, the ‘CHOP’ can kill, a victim instantly!

TAI-CHI – or ‘Great Ultimate Fist’ – develops inner power and Relaxation (?)

It can be seen at a glance that ‘Martial Arts’ is nothing short of a filthy Satanic deception, totally anti-Christ and one which is under the curse and judgement of Almighty God!

PARENTS – Will you encourage your children on the broad way to hell? Martial Arts will help lead to damnation – Yes, Damnation!

This is no game – it is time you knew the truth.

CHURCH GROUPS – Are you encouraging ‘harmless’ Judo, Karate etc in church or village halls? REPENT! IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO GOD!

TO ALL CHRISTIANS –"Touch not the unclean thing – Come ye out from among them!" (II Corinthians 6) HOW DARE YOU TOUCH WHAT GOD CONDEMNS.

NOTE – The man who was responsible for the development of Judo. (Dr Jigoro Kano) found a school in Tokyo called the KODOKAN which means "The Way". This final insult in the face of the Son of God and Saviour of the world JESUS CHRIST who said, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" (John 14:6).

Will you choose the Kodokan? (The way to hell and damnation) OR Will you choose the SAVIOUR – JESUS CHRIST? (THE ONLY WAY TO ETERNAL LIFE.)

If you are willing to heed this message and turn from the evil of Martial Arts (and ALL sin) the BLOOD OF JESUS, SHED ON THE CROSS FOR YOU WILL CLEANSE YOU AND GIVE YOU RIGHT STANDING WITH GOD – FOR ALL TIME!

ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE YOU – WILL YOU ASK HIM TO?

http://www.bible-truths.org/tracts/martia~1.htm

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Don't forget; for many Christians it's not just Chi, it's the whole kit 'n kaboodle.

http://www.bible-truths.org/tracts/martia~1.htm

A bit on the hyperbole side (as in way over ), but it does make my point; some have objections to what is taught in martial arts classes - whether the objections are valid or not, it is their belief system and their right to determine what is taught to their children.

 

[Nomadic Lady]

Mritsme you said: make sure they are strong on teaching only for self defence strongly and not just fighting.

Yes, self defense is what I am mainly looking for.
------------------------
Lost Cause, to answer your questions:

""What form of Martial Arts are you enrolling them in?""

A couple of friends suggested Kung Fu.

""Reevaluate your motives for the school, is it to develop mental dicipline? ""

Actually, I was hoping to enroll him for self-defense reasons (I was raped and if it ever happens to my son, god forbid, I want him prepared.) but if mental discipline is part of what they teach then all the better, I would think.

""Is it the result of seeing someone in the movies use it? ""

Movies have nothing to do with it. Although I have watched documentaries on the Shaolin Martial Arts but it was not my reasoning for wanting him into a program.

""Schooling in the right art requires a great deal of time from the student, it is not like band practice. It is not for "bragging rights." Choose carefully! Good luck! ""

Completely agree with you that it is not for "bragging rights". I think it would be preferably once he attends a martial arts program that he not tell anyone that he is.
-------------------------

RosevilleCAguy you said: Three sounds a little young though. Most schools in my area wait until at least age five before taking on a student, mostly due to instruction and coordination issues.

I haven't called a school yet (not until I have questions ready to ask) so I do not know what is the youngest age they take students at.
-------------------------

Susano you said: If they have any kind of guarantee like "Black Belt in under 5 years" I'd look for another school. That school isn't interested in teaching him budo or jutsu.

That is good to know.
------------------------

Shy Tall Guy you said: As a Christian I would say that depending on what you want taught to your child you may or may not want a school to teach such philosophical aspects of martial arts.

Haven't even thought of that, thanks for bringing it to my attention, more to think about now. Personally I do not follow any kind of religious doctrine but it is still something to think about.
---------------------------

Rambrat you said: ask how long it should take to KICK someones ASS! Lol...I'm kidding...

LOL....Yikes! Scared they may give me a kick to the side of my head just to answer that question.
---------------------------

Tap-Out you said: I think 3 is a little young for children to be enrolled in any martial arts school. A lot of kids that age do not have the attention span, or dicipline to follow the instructor, and you would probably end up wasteing your money. You should wait a couple more years (5 or 6) and see if they are ineterestd then.

Yes, I starting to think the same thing that three may be too young. My son has the attention span of a gnat (not that I know what the attention span of a gnat is... ) so it sounds like I may till he is five now.
-----------------------------
There is much to think about now with all the responses. Never would of thought to check out some of the thing many of you posted.

Thanks each and every one of you for your help, you have all raised good points and issues to look for and be aware of.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

My husband is a Karate Instructor and they tend to put them off until the age of five... but having said that there is one 4 year old girl who is a natural.... it depends a lot the childs abitlity to concentrate.

 

[SINthysist]

Don't take your three-year old to any school that will accept a three year old. Beware that most "commercially successful" schools operate using stratagisms and hidden fee structures to maximize the amount of discretionary income that they can extract from each family. I get at least three trade journals a month telling me "How to maximize profits and increase enrollment." Tiny Tot Programs and After-School programs are how they capitalize on the "latch-key" market. (And NOBODY watches them unless you, the parent, decide to be there for every second of your child's instruction - WHICH I HIGHLY RECOMMEND!)



Shy Tall Guy. Who's more Christian than the Quakers? Did you know they, the Shakers (even the Jews, I've been told), and many, many other sects practice meditation to get in touch with their "inner god" and achieve enlightenment?

Nor do ANY buddhist philosophies really counter anything in Christianity, unless you are a fundamentalist from one of the stricter sects. Nor do any Daoist or Confucian systems. Most Okinawan/Japanese styles are steeped in Cultural Practices which are permeated by Zen (Chan Buddhism) in a way that has become indistinguishable from daily life, much like the Protestant "Work" ethic in America.