Malicious voting

[nygayguy]

Have you been seeing clearly malicious down-voting? Is it just me, or is someone on a campaign against lots of us?

If someone doesn't like what I write, fine, but in the past couple of weeks, I'm getting what appears to be a campaign of 1-votes. The clearest is one chapter of a series of mine where it had a 4.9 average on 302 votes. In the past couple of weeks, it has kept dropping, now down to 4.83. And it's being done across everything I've written.

I had a smaller issue like this once before, reported it, and the admins fixed it. This time, I've reported it repeatedly, but so far no action. I guess they'll get around to it, but this is really frustrating. What's wrong with someone that they'd spend time doing something like this?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

My, you are a virgin.

Yes, malicious downvotes were invented approximately seven nanoseconds after the first story was published on lit and are a rampant thing. You will undoubtedly see multiple replies to this thread, stating "(yawn) another 1-bomb thread".

So, short answer, yup, they happen. Lots. Fucking lots. Constantly. In fact if you never get any you're probably doing something wrong. : P

Why do they happen?

1 ~ Someone hates the themes in your story on principle (ie: "you didn't write this the way that I wanted you to and I'm pissed!!).

2 ~ You write a controversial topic, half the folks will love it and half will hate it on principle (again ie: nothing to do with your actual writing).

3 ~ You have a very high score (especially in a contest) and through either competitiveness or sheer jealousy they vote it down (at 4.9 this is likely what happened to yours in this particular case).

4 ~ You piss people off in the forums or chat.

5 ~ Who knows what other stupid reasons drive people to be spiteful? (and who the fuck cares?)

If I've missed any reasons, anyone else please feel free to add.

What to do about it?

1 ~ Wait for a site sweep to remove suspicious votes (it works but not perfectly).

2 ~ Request the admin for a specific sweep of your story.

3 ~ Shake it off. Get over it.

Oh, and welcome to lit.

 

[Bamagan]

Stories rated that highly do sometimes become targets for malicious voters, but they also become targets for a broader audience, such as those who check the top-lists for the 'highly recommended' stories there. Most of the early votes on a story will be from people who sought it out based on category, topic, tags, or because they're fans/followers of the author. If a story does well enough with that crowd, it tends to draw the attention of a more varied group of readers, some of whom will in fact vote less than five non-maliciously. It doesn't take a lot of 3s to make a 4.9 drop precipitously. For example, if the next twelve votes on that story averaged out to 3, the result is a 4.83 score.
I'm not saying that you aren't being trolled, but a 0.07 point wobble in a score isn't huge, and there might not be anything going on that the site can identify as malice. If you reach a wide enough audience, that kind of reaction is not uncommon.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Yeah, it sucks, but it's a thing. It's literally the way of the internet world.

Quite a few writers have a "fan club" whose sole purpose is to wait for a new story, then carpet bomb it.

 

[12oclocktales]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I had a story at 4.38 for several months when I noticed the number of votes had suddenly gone down and the score increased to 4.6 with a red H waving next to it. Go figure. (Of course, next week I could get a “Oops, sorry” indication and the score is 3.6, which would kind of be more like the story of my life.)

 

[nygayguy]

Stories rated that highly do sometimes become targets for malicious voters, but they also become targets for a broader audience, such as those who check the top-lists for the 'highly recommended' stories there. Most of the early votes on a story will be from people who sought it out based on category, topic, tags, or because they're fans/followers of the author. If a story does well enough with that crowd, it tends to draw the attention of a more varied group of readers, some of whom will in fact vote less than five non-maliciously. It doesn't take a lot of 3s to make a 4.9 drop precipitously. For example, if the next twelve votes on that story averaged out to 3, the result is a 4.83 score.
I'm not saying that you aren't being trolled, but a 0.07 point wobble in a score isn't huge, and there might not be anything going on that the site can identify as malice. If you reach a wide enough audience, that kind of reaction is not uncommon.

Maybe, but it hasn't happened like this before (and it would have to be several low votes all of a sudden) and across virtually all the chapters? If someone genuinely didn't like them, why would they read a 23-chapter series? I realize I'm not competing for anything, but it pisses me off, since it looks like others just being dicks, probably because their own stories aren't score as high.

It was done on a smaller scale in the past, and they did identify malice and delete the scores that caused it. I hope they act on this, too.

 

[nygayguy]

Sometimes things go in the opposite direction. I had a story at 4.38 for several months when I noticed the number of votes had suddenly gone down and the score increased to 4.6 with a red H waving next to it. Go figure. (Of course, next week I could get a “Oops, sorry” indication and the score is 3.6, which would kind of be more like the story of my life.)

Wow, that sucks. Sorry about that. :-(

 

[nygayguy]

Yeah, it sucks, but it's a thing. It's literally the way of the internet world.

Quite a few writers have a "fan club" whose sole purpose is to wait for a new story, then carpet bomb it.

Interesting. Weird that people would do that, but still, fan clubs? That's wild.

 

[nygayguy]

My, you are a virgin.

Yes, malicious downvotes were invented approximately seven nanoseconds after the first story was published on lit and are a rampant thing. You will undoubtedly see multiple replies to this thread, stating "(yawn) another 1-bomb thread".

So, short answer, yup, they happen. Lots. Fucking lots. Constantly. In fact if you never get any you're probably doing something wrong. : P

Why do they happen?

1 ~ Someone hates the themes in your story on principle (ie: "you didn't write this the way that I wanted you to and I'm pissed!!).

2 ~ You write a controversial topic, half the folks will love it and half will hate it on principle (again ie: nothing to do with your actual writing).

3 ~ You have a very high score (especially in a contest) and through either competitiveness or sheer jealousy they vote it down (at 4.9 this is likely what happened to yours in this particular case).

4 ~ You piss people off in the forums or chat.

5 ~ Who knows what other stupid reasons drive people to be spiteful? (and who the fuck cares?)

If I've missed any reasons, anyone else please feel free to add.

What to do about it?

1 ~ Wait for a site sweep to remove suspicious votes (it works but not perfectly).

2 ~ Request the admin for a specific sweep of your story.

3 ~ Shake it off. Get over it.

Oh, and welcome to lit.

You're right, I should get over it. I even had someone steal the whole series not long after it was posted and turn it into a "book" he was selling on Amazon. I never would have known, but a commenter alerted me to it. I'm just doing this for fun, but I guess some people are more mercenary. But still, even doing it just for fun, I hate cheaters, and this feels like someone is bombing my story just to make themselves (or someone they follow?) look better. That crap is irritating. Still, you're right, I should try to get over it.

 

[RejectReality]

Yep, with a score that's near the top of the toplist for the category like that, it's going to get bombed like clockwork. Stories with scores in that range are a constant yo-yo of bombs, sweeps, and bombs again.

You just have to play the long game knowing that you're writing stuff that can get those toplist scores. Every time you're up there, you're getting new eyes on your work, and building a bigger cushion of readers that will mute the bombs. Eventually, you'll be getting enough votes that attempts to bomb you down require more effort, and thus more opportunities to make mistakes, which causes them to be swept more often.

Topist trolls are always going to have a steadily diminishing return on their effort. You may never be in the top 10 with that particular submission again, but it's always going to bubble up high enough to keep building your reader base.

Shrug it off and keep writing. The Hoover will get around to the 1-bombs eventually.

 

[Trionyx]

Another cause is that authors with lots of followers tend to have higher votes earlier from those enthusiastic followers and then as more routine readers start voting, the scores will drift down. At least that’s the way some have interpreted the phenomenon you described.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Maybe, but it hasn't happened like this before (and it would have to be several low votes all of a sudden) and across virtually all the chapters? If someone genuinely didn't like them, why would they read a 23-chapter series?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Wow, that sucks. Sorry about that. :-(

That's actually not a suck. That's a site sweep that detects illegitimate votes and erases them from time to time. The votes go down and the score goes up means that some low votes were removed. The sweeps can also remove high votes that it detects as illegitimate. I've had votes go down and scores down too, so the site erased a 5 or two.

How does the site determine illegitimate votes? We don't know and we don't ask. Although many of us have our theories but we do not discuss them so that the bombers don't learn how to evade the sweeps.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Reason #6 for PSG’s list. There appears to be a select group who hover in the new story section and bomb anything with a red H, just on principle. Why? My best analogy for many bombers is that they’re like toddlers with building blocks. Unable to build anything themselves, they take their pleasure in knocking down those structures erected by those with the ability to build,

A word to the wise. These bottom-feeders as a group live for the dismay and annoyance they cause. To speak too much about it plays to their hands, encourages more.

So, yup, it’s a reality and ultimately it’s just part of the game. Sweeps help, but we get used to it.

Welcome.

 

[SimonDoom]

On the one hand, I can sympathize, to a limited degree, with someone who sees their extremely highly-rated story get dropped from an extremely high score like 4.90 to a somewhat less extremely high score like 4.83, but on the other hand, not really. I've been a pretty successful author here at Lit (in the top 70 most followed all time) and I have no stories rated over 4.8. My Halloween story last year was rated 4.92 briefly at the time it placed 3d in the contest, and then it plummeted like a stone. Now, a year later, it's under 4.6. I was chagrined, but I can't say I felt cheated. I don't know why people voted it down. It's still a fine score and it's had plenty of views and people who seem to have appreciated it.

It's possible people bombed my story just to spite me, or to spite a story that was ranked high. It's also possible that readers just didn't like it that much. I'll never really know. I don't really care. I have no basis for believing the voting was "malicious."

Don't write for scores. Enjoy high scores if you get them, but don't attach yourself to them. Don't let yourself get too upset if scores drop, for whatever reason (you'll probably never know why). Take what positives you can from your story's response and keep writing.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you get bombed, congratz! You popped your cherry. You're one of us now. Welcome to the club.

 

[THBGato]

On the one hand, I can sympathize, to a limited degree, with someone who sees their extremely highly-rated story get dropped from an extremely high score like 4.90 to a somewhat less extremely high score like 4.83, but on the other hand, not really. I've been a pretty successful author here at Lit (in the top 70 most followed all time) and I have no stories rated over 4.8. My Halloween story last year was rated 4.92 briefly at the time it placed 3d in the contest, and then it plummeted like a stone. Now, a year later, it's under 4.6. I was chagrined, but I can't say I felt cheated. I don't know why people voted it down. It's still a fine score and it's had plenty of views and people who seem to have appreciated it.

It's possible people bombed my story just to spite me, or to spite a story that was ranked high. It's also possible that readers just didn't like it that much. I'll never really know. I don't really care. I have no basis for believing the voting was "malicious."

Don't write for scores. Enjoy high scores if you get them, but don't attach yourself to them. Don't let yourself get too upset if scores drop, for whatever reason (you'll probably never know why). Take what positives you can from your story's response and keep writing.

Yeah....

But on the other hand, some of us write in genres that don't get lots of views. If you don't write in I/T or LW, it seems like you're never going to rack up thousands of followers and millions of views.

Top ranked story in Non-Erotic? 49 thousand views, despite being written in 2013 and being a competition winner.

Reviews & essays? 6 thousand views (despite having a green E next to it).

There are million view stories in Lesbian Sex, but only a handful, and none written in the last 15 years. OneHitWanda currently has the top story - just under 200 thousand views. Top in I/T at the minute has over 1.4 million views.

Now that's fine. I'm happy writing in those genres. However, it means that for writers in those categories (and possibly others, I wouldn't know) scores are really all we can write for. Or rather, comments are all we can write for... but the way we'll get those are by scoring high enough to either stay on top lists or win competitions so that our stories stay in front of readers on the category home pages. We're never going to trouble the most read, most favourited or most followed lists, so high scores are the only way people will find our writing. So, I have some sympathy for the OP here.

 

[lovecraft68]

I missed the point of feeling bad for someone who went 'down' to a 4.83. especially on a long series which gets the benefits of a built in high fiving cheerleading fan base.

My guess is someone else may feel that way-a fan of another top list author?-and took a few shots at it.

Happens to everyone and let me tell you, a lot worse than sinking to the low 4.8's. some people have been blasted down into the 3's and 2's in LW.

The shame of any of these threads is the fact that they don't realize-because they're new here-that posting this just gave the trolls a win, and will earn more bombs from new trolls.

We need some type of warning sign "Do not whine about scores here, lest ye get more reason to whine."

 

[LonRivers]

Internet Trolls are everywhere. Lit is no different. While I do enjoy seeing my stories get good responses from the readers and I do enjoy the votes, they are not going to stop me from the joy of writing. Assholes will be assholes.

Trolls will target you just because you said or did or wrote something that blipped on their radar. Their whole existence is whacking off, being rude and causing problems. That's it. They have nothing better to do with their lives and nothing going for them either.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah....

But on the other hand, some of us write in genres that don't get lots of views. If you don't write in I/T or LW, it seems like you're never going to rack up thousands of followers and millions of views.

Top ranked story in Non-Erotic? 49 thousand views, despite being written in 2013 and being a competition winner.

Reviews & essays? 6 thousand views (despite having a green E next to it).

There are million view stories in Lesbian Sex, but only a handful, and none written in the last 15 years. OneHitWanda currently has the top story - just under 200 thousand views. Top in I/T at the minute has over 1.4 million views.

Now that's fine. I'm happy writing in those genres. However, it means that for writers in those categories (and possibly others, I wouldn't know) scores are really all we can write for. Or rather, comments are all we can write for... but the way we'll get those are by scoring high enough to either stay on top lists or win competitions so that our stories stay in front of readers on the category home pages. We're never going to trouble the most read, most favourited or most followed lists, so high scores are the only way people will find our writing. So, I have some sympathy for the OP here.

What is the negative consequence of falling all the way "down" to 4.83?

I don't agree with your premise. While I've written a lot of stories in incest, my three Ws come from writing stories in Erotic Horror, Toys & Masturbation, and Letters & Transcripts. These are all low-traffic categories. None of those stories has a score over 4.68. The idea that if you don't have high scores nobody is going to read your stories is not true. There are other approaches that work.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Happens to everyone and let me tell you, a lot worse than sinking to the low 4.8's. some people have been blasted down into the 3's and 2's in LW.

Not just LW. Granted the high traffic there requires many many many downvotes to take a story down that far, but in categories like Interracial or E/V or the wonderful EC, three or four ones can fuck a story for a very very long time sometimes even forever. With no traffic, they can't recover.

The math: to maintain a 4.5 average, a story needs seven 5s for every 1. SEVEN! In Incest and LW you can get that in an hour if you're on the new list, a few days with an old story. Many old stories in EC may never get another seven total votes ever.

 

[nygayguy]

On the one hand, I can sympathize, to a limited degree, with someone who sees their extremely highly-rated story get dropped from an extremely high score like 4.90 to a somewhat less extremely high score like 4.83, but on the other hand, not really. I've been a pretty successful author here at Lit (in the top 70 most followed all time) and I have no stories rated over 4.8. My Halloween story last year was rated 4.92 briefly at the time it placed 3d in the contest, and then it plummeted like a stone. Now, a year later, it's under 4.6. I was chagrined, but I can't say I felt cheated. I don't know why people voted it down. It's still a fine score and it's had plenty of views and people who seem to have appreciated it.

It's possible people bombed my story just to spite me, or to spite a story that was ranked high. It's also possible that readers just didn't like it that much. I'll never really know. I don't really care. I have no basis for believing the voting was "malicious."

Don't write for scores. Enjoy high scores if you get them, but don't attach yourself to them. Don't let yourself get too upset if scores drop, for whatever reason (you'll probably never know why). Take what positives you can from your story's response and keep writing.

Fair enough. Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[Voboy]

We need some type of warning sign "Do not whine about scores here, lest ye get more reason to whine."

This is not your first day on the Internet, nor among humanity.

You know what would happen if the site did that. People would simply fail to read it, read it but assume it didn't apply to them, or let it inspire them "just to see what happens."

Best we let the current system take its course: people post ill-advised threads here without knowing they're ill-advised, then learn a powerful lesson more or less immediately. Or? They leave the site. Either way, they seldom post twice.

 

[THBGato]

I don't agree with your premise. While I've written a lot of stories in incest, my three Ws come from writing stories in Erotic Horror, Toys & Masturbation, and Letters & Transcripts. These are all low-traffic categories. None of those stories has a score over 4.68. The idea that if you don't have high scores nobody is going to read your stories is not true. There are other approaches that work.

Did they get those Ws with low scores, or has the score dropped since? How many views do they have out of interest? How do they compare to your I/T stories?

My point still stands: your thousands of followers come from your I/T writing most likely. I'm not trying to diminish that or look down on your achievements. However, for those of us who don't want to write in certain categories writing well and securing high scores (and thus maybe get Ws) is the best strategy.

 

[lovecraft68]

This is not your first day on the Internet, nor among humanity.

You know what would happen if the site did that. People would simply fail to read it, read it but assume it didn't apply to them, or let it inspire them "just to see what happens."

Best we let the current system take its course: people post ill-advised threads here without knowing they're ill-advised, then learn a powerful lesson more or less immediately. Or? They leave the site. Either way, they seldom post twice.

I was kidding. I mean, come on, that would be asking the site to do something we asked for instead of something no one asked for.

As one of my favorite movie quotes says, "Chump don't want no help, chump don't get no help."