Magic, Fantasy, America

[sweetnpetite]

Considering Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, I realized that there seems to be nothing magical about the USA in terms of fantasy- I guess it's all too modern and such. But I'd like to try an ambitious project involving ancient magic in america (USA and possilby including the rest of America) coming forth into and threw the modern day incorporating some existing mythology (as most fantasy writers do) and lots of fiction of course to tie it all together. I'm doing some research, and especially need some type of mytholgical artifact that would be the centerpeice of the story. So I have big ideas but no specifics. If anyone has any knowlege, links or idea I'd appreciate the suggestions. As I said, I want to use mythology as a jumping off point, but create a 'magical world' of my own. (Like Rowlings did w/ HP)

Any suggestions?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Dark Tower, of course is American- to some extent.

 

[fogbank]

The first work that comes to mind is Winter's Tale by Mark Halpern. Great novel set in New York and other parts of the US, involving time travel, bridges to infinity, flying horses, and lots of history of the city--very much rooted in our world. Fantastic book--I probably read it every three years or so.

Other than that, I'm not sure. Most of the other examples I can think of are magic realism, usually involving folklore. Louise Erdrich is a great example of this-- Beet Queen, maybe.

I think both cases are probably a different type of magic than what you're looking for. The difficulty is coming up with how an ancient magic in America would have worked?
One of the strengths of the Harry Potter world is that it you sense that the magic has a history. In your story, was it a native-american magic originally, or was it brought by someone else? Or maybe there were powers in the New World that were not yet tapped, and so when the first magicians came to America, they travelled the land looking for magic within the world to entrap, take back to Europe, and sell.
Maybe magic was brought from the old world, but the old world magic didn't really get along with the new world magic, and there's an ongoing conflict in America, hidden from the eyes of most, between these two magical forces. In addition to using native mythology sources (and there are literally thousands of stories you can draw from), consider the Salem witch trials as one of the earliest instances of european (HP) notions of magic in America.

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm. let me think about this for a bit, sweet.

If you want to read an interesting fictional take on magic in modern America, I would suggest The Incarnations of Immortality series by Piers Anthony.

Another source of good ideas for magic in the modern age is a Role Playing Game Mage - The Ascension. Never played it but have the rule book. Very interesting ideas in this one.

 

[sweetnpetite]

The first work that comes to mind is Winter's Tale by Mark Halpern. Great novel set in New York and other parts of the US, involving time travel, bridges to infinity, flying horses, and lots of history of the city--very much rooted in our world. Fantastic book--I probably read it every three years or so.

Other than that, I'm not sure. Most of the other examples I can think of are magic realism, usually involving folklore. Louise Erdrich is a great example of this-- Beet Queen, maybe.

I think both cases are probably a different type of magic than what you're looking for. The difficulty is coming up with how an ancient magic in America would have worked?
One of the strengths of the Harry Potter world is that it you sense that the magic has a history. In your story, was it a native-american magic originally, or was it brought by someone else? Or maybe there were powers in the New World that were not yet tapped, and so when the first magicians came to America, they travelled the land looking for magic within the world to entrap, take back to Europe, and sell.
Maybe magic was brought from the old world, but the old world magic didn't really get along with the new world magic, and there's an ongoing conflict in America, hidden from the eyes of most, between these two magical forces. In addition to using native mythology sources (and there are literally thousands of stories you can draw from), consider the Salem witch trials as one of the earliest instances of european (HP) notions of magic in America.

wow! excellent response! so much to think about. Thanks. you blew me away!!!

 

[sweetnpetite]

Hmm. let me think about this for a bit, sweet.

If you want to read an interesting fictional take on magic in modern America, I would suggest The Incarnations of Immortality series by Piers Anthony.

Another source of good ideas for magic in the modern age is a Role Playing Game Mage - The Ascension. Never played it but have the rule book. Very interesting ideas in this one.

ty rgraham.

I'll have to look into both of those.

 

[cloudy]

If you'd like to use shamanic practices, or native american beliefs, I'd be glad to help. I have a little bit of knowledge in that area.

 

[sweetnpetite]

. In your story, was it a native-american magic originally, or was it brought by someone else? Or maybe there were powers in the New World that were not yet tapped, and so when the first magicians came to America, they travelled the land looking for magic within the world to entrap, take back to Europe, and sell.

To answer you'r question, I was thinking of something that existed that was more ancient that what was previously thought to exist on this continent. Possibly, even more ancient than the known ancient myths of the world. (Maybe even so ancient that there is no doubt that it is fiction and not just a retelling of existing Native American myths- although I would like to incorporate some to some extent)


But you bring up so many tantalizing options!

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Considering Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, I realized that there seems to be nothing magical about the USA in terms of fantasy- I guess it's all too modern and such. But I'd like to try an ambitious project involving ancient magic in america (USA and possilby including the rest of America) coming forth into and threw the modern day incorporating some existing mythology (as most fantasy writers do) and lots of fiction of course to tie it all together. I'm doing some research, and especially need some type of mytholgical artifact that would be the centerpeice of the story. So I have big ideas but no specifics. If anyone has any knowlege, links or idea I'd appreciate the suggestions. As I said, I want to use mythology as a jumping off point, but create a 'magical world' of my own. (Like Rowlings did w/ HP)

Any suggestions?

Yep. Make this a writer's challenge here on the board. You've inspired me, though I don't have a particular train of thought just yet.

And you've made a fair point here. Most American writing tends to be less magic than horror and sci-fi. Don't know why that is, exactly. i guess it's something we've accepted as our own voice, leaving those other stories to Europe to tell, as they did before our founding.

Q_C

 

[sweetnpetite]

If you'd like to use shamanic practices, or native american beliefs, I'd be glad to help. I have a little bit of knowledge in that area.

Thank you cloudy. YOu'd be first on my list to PM when I have a specific question

But do you have any suggestions for types of things that could be the centerpiece artifact (just brainstorming at this point)

So far, the only thing I've seen that fits this discription is "a celestial giant monster from Zuni mythology with feathers of flint knives." The feathers could be found and could be of central importance.

I'm not really clear on the story or exactly what I want to do, it's a general (and as I said, ambitious) idea.

Ideally, I think I'd like to draw in mythologies from around the world as they pertain to America (such as Brendan of Celtic mythogy) but definatly want the centerpeice to be 'native' (not necessarily native american, if you know what I mean but that's certainly a strong possiblity.

Out of curiosity, does any of this make sence? I feel quite rambly.

 

[cloudy]

In many NA cultures, the creation story revolves around many levels of the earth, and the first people came out from one of the lower levels onto this one. In one, they followed a crow up to this level.

In others, it is held that the people were once able to speak to our brother animals freely, and in the same language, until wrong-doing/ungratefulness changed all that.

If you want links, I'll see if I can find them for you.

There's some things I can't share, but what I can, I'll be glad to.

 

[sweetnpetite]

In many NA cultures, the creation story revolves around many levels of the earth, and the first people came out from one of the lower levels onto this one. In one, they followed a crow up to this level.

In others, it is held that the people were once able to speak to our brother animals freely, and in the same language, until wrong-doing/ungratefulness changed all that.

If you want links, I'll see if I can find them for you.

There's some things I can't share, but what I can, I'll be glad to.

I'll probably need to study the creation stories as a good foundation, but I'm not sure if it will be quite that ancient. (although who knows)

so uncertain about the plot, I don't quite have a foothold. I'd appreciate the links, but you can get them to me in your own time.

Thanks cloudy. I knew I could count on you

 

[sweetnpetite]

I think I'm going to have to draw in Columbus, the Vikings, and the Crossing of the Bearing Straight (have I got that right?) too.


Anybody else that I've forgotten?

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Um...

Your PM box is full, sweetnpetite.

Q_C

 

[sweetnpetite]

anybody got a link to a good timeline concerning all these things?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Um...

Your PM box is full, sweetnpetite.

Q_C

OOps,

I hope you said yes, cuz I posted it. I'm going to do some cleaning...

 

[Quiet_Cool]

OOps,

I hope you said yes, cuz I posted it. I'm going to do some cleaning...

I did. I won't resend, cuz basically, I just said it was a good idea again. If you think perhaps this could be, or lead to a group project, keep us informed. A bunch of short stories about one large, secret world in America, magic and myth, all blended, might be nice. It'd also consolidate views and reads.

Q_C

 

[sweetnpetite]

I did. I won't resend, cuz basically, I just said it was a good idea again. If you think perhaps this could be, or lead to a group project, keep us informed. A bunch of short stories about one large, secret world in America, magic and myth, all blended, might be nice. It'd also consolidate views and reads.

Q_C

hmm, meet me over on here: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?threadid=303670

 

[cloudy]

Sweet, I forget which tribe it is, but one in one of the northern tribes, there's a legend of "white" natives. Supposedly, there was a very early, untold, crossing of Celts/Vikings, that then mixed with this tribe, leading to the "white" members. I wish I could remember which one, but it's actually been researched and found to be entirely possible.

Here's a link to some native stories, although you'll have to look through them for some of the creation ones:Native American Myths and Legends

Read:

Coming of the Hopi from the Underworld
Lakota: Creation Myth
Miwok: Creation of Man
Cherokee: The Nunne'hi And Other Spirit Folk (quite a bit of magic here)

There's lots and lots of other stories there, all classed by tribe.

 

[Remec]

As long as you're doing research, as it were, another book to look over is "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman. It isn't so much about American magic as originating here, but looking at the concept that magic comes from its practioners and is shaped and influenced by the environment they find themselves in.

 

[sweetnpetite]

this discussion is still open the other one is for the writers challenge and this one is for me

 

[sweetnpetite]

Cool stuff guys.

YOu've given me so much work!!!!

Thanks

White indians, and American gods- fantastic!

 

[cantdog]

Sweet, I forget which tribe it is, but one in one of the northern tribes, there's a legend of "white" natives. Supposedly, there was a very early, untold, crossing of Celts/Vikings, that then mixed with this tribe, leading to the "white" members. I wish I could remember which one, but it's actually been researched and found to be entirely possible.

Here's a link to some native stories, although you'll have to look through them for some of the creation ones:Native American Myths and Legends

Read:

Coming of the Hopi from the Underworld
Lakota: Creation Myth
Miwok: Creation of Man
Cherokee: The Nunne'hi And Other Spirit Folk (quite a bit of magic here)

There's lots and lots of other stories there, all classed by tribe.

I heard the Mohocks or Mohawks were supposed to have Celtic root-words in their language. There is Magnetic Hill, too.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I have a friend who is Choctaw... great guy, really. He's about fifty, lives really cloes to his culture. Best conversation we had, about the whose mysticism and whatnot was:

Him: So, tell me what your average day is like.

Me: How so?

Him: Start with waking up and continue, everything.

Me: O.k. I wake up and get a shower--

Him: (interrupting) Wasting water. Keep going.

Me: And then I get dressed and drive to--

Him: (big howling voice) Earth RAPER! This is why all you white people should die.

...best conversation ever.

 

[cloudy]

I have a friend who is Choctaw... great guy, really. He's about fifty, lives really cloes to his culture. Best conversation we had, about the whose mysticism and whatnot was:

Him: So, tell me what your average day is like.

Me: How so?

Him: Start with waking up and continue, everything.

Me: O.k. I wake up and get a shower--

Him: (interrupting) Wasting water. Keep going.

Me: And then I get dressed and drive to--

Him: (big howling voice) Earth RAPER! This is why all you white people should die.

...best conversation ever.

you water-waster and earth-raper, you.

Sounds like a cool guy.