LOVE this.....

[Wildcard Ky]

Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to the police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

 

[TE999]

Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to the police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

But...but...aren't we all safer now that those nasty guns have been gathered up? That unfortunate woman shouldn't have been carring a gun anyway. She might have hurt herself or a family member or a neighbor or a stranger by mistake. That rapist could have taken that gun from her and shot her. She might have committed suicide with that gun.

In re keeping vs. not keeping a gun in the home: When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

 

[Liar]

When seconds count, would most people know what to do with a gun?

I'd like to propose a re-focus on gun control to that. By all means, allow everyone to have guns. But force people with guns to learn how to control them. How to use them. When to use them. And when not to.

Plus, and I've said this before: All guns should be pink and penis shaped. So that you carry one if you need one for protection, not if you need one to prop up the ego.

 

[Xelebes]

Cliche: To drum up an old saying is somehow superior to saying something that has not been said before.

 

[Boxlicker101]

When seconds count, would most people know what to do with a gun?

I'd like to propose a re-focus on gun control to that. By all means, allow everyone to have guns. But force people with guns to learn how to control them. How to use them. When to use them. And when not to.

Plus, and I've said this before: All guns should be pink and penis shaped. So that you carry one if you need one for protection, not if you need one to prop up the ego.

I am inclined to agree with you. Issue licenses to carry a gun, after the person has demonstrated the ability to use one, just as is done with a driver's license. One difference is that driving is a privilege and carrying a gun is a right, but the similarity is still there.

Guns are already quite penis shaped, especially the barrels. Maybe they should look like teddy bears, or something like that.

 

[TE999]

I am inclined to agree with you. Issue licenses to carry a gun, after the person has demonstrated the ability to use one, just as is done with a driver's license. One difference is that driving is a privilege and carrying a gun is a right, but the similarity is still there.

Guns are already quite penis shaped, especially the barrels. Maybe they should look like teddy bears, or something like that

I don't care if it looks like a pineapple as long as it shoots...oh...wait...that's a hand grenade...maybe it could look like a banana or a cucumber or a squash or a carrot.

"Drop the carrot, Bugs and step away..."

 

[john-the-author]

I grew up with guns. Dad's hobby has always been gunsmithing and now that he's retired, he's doing museum restoration work on antique pieces. It's amazing how good is workmanship is; I never knew he was that good when we were growing up. My stepmother's a retired major metro chief of police. So yeah, I know a lot about guns.

Most people who have guns don't appreciate how difficult it is to shoot someone. Your adrenaline doesn't kick in quite like that. If you don't know what you're doing with the gun, assuming you can get to it in time, it's likely to get taken away from you and then you've got an ARMED thug who's pissed that you tried to shoot him. (This presupposes that anyone with a gun in the house does not have kids. Any gun you can get to and make ready to shoot quickly in a house with kids in it is asking for trouble. I've known families who've had kids who shot themselves that way.)

There's also the problem of what happens to the person who shoots someone. There isn't a day that goes by for the rest of your life that you don't think about that. There's a really big price to pay for this. And that's something that most people with guns haven't thought about. Again, it may be worth it to you, but you should give this more thought if you're keeping guns around. Talking to people who *have* shot other people can give you new insights about what it's like, and it's not trivial.

The problem with that saying at the top of this thread is that it assumes that those are the only two options. What about "taking a self-defense course and knowing how to fight back" or "being able to mace someone" or even "able to run faster?" Rape is awful, but serious physical injuries or death actually happen in only a minute percentage of rapes (according to Pi Bateman, a senior martial arts instructor I took a class from). Being able to fight back is a big thing: if you can't fight back, the chances are good you can't reach into your purse and pull out the gun you're supposedly carrying. (Because no rapist would ever be thinking that you might be carrying a weapon in your purse, so you'd never have a problem reaching for your purse when being wrestled to the ground.)

There are definitely times and places that having a gun will save your life. There are a lot more where it won't.

 

[Safe_Bet]

When seconds count, would most people know what to do with a gun?

I'd like to propose a re-focus on gun control to that. By all means, allow everyone to have guns. But force people with guns to learn how to control them. How to use them. When to use them. And when not to.

When we got our latest guns (Baby Glocks) we went to the range weekly until we (actually read I) could load, fire and hit exactly what we were aiming at (Amy has ALWAYS been a crack shot... I'm just okay). If you aren't willing to make a commitment to the required time and training, you shouldn't have a gun in the house at all, IMO.

Plus, and I've said this before: All guns should be pink and penis shaped. So that you carry one if you need one for protection, not if you need one to prop up the ego.

Liar are you crazy???? Do you realize how many lesbians would die from accidental gun shots if that were to happen?

Besides all of the pink, penis shaped things in our house aren't "loaded," if you catch my drift!

 

[3113]

Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to the police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

You're defining yourself to victory? Really? Gosh. That's so...mature. So convincing. And it so makes me admire your wit and intelligence...not!

Please That's the best you can do? Really?

Anti-gun-control: The theory having your gun taken away from you by a mugger and being stupidly shot with it is morally superior to getting mugged.

Oh, or how about this!

Anti-gun-control: The theory that accidently shooting your wife or kid in the middle of the night is somehow morally superior to chancing that you might be robbed and able to shoot the robber.

Gosh. That was easy. Stupidly so. Let's try it again:

Anti-gun-control: The theory that having a house full of assault rifles to protect yourself from other gun nuts is morally superior to letting your crazy cousin take one such gun and shoot up a school yard.

Hey, this is fun! I can keep this up all day if you like. So. Once again. Do you REALLY want to use the logical fallacy of "defining yourself to victory" in order to argue your point? I suppose you do, because actually arguing about real gun control--note the word "control" which doesn't usually mean outlawing all guns, just "controlling" who gets a gun or how many (and just how many do you need to protect yourself from a mugger?)--would be too hard. You might find that you really don't have an argument for assault rifles. Or, um, was that hypothetical woman in the alley carrying an assault rifle?

Please, do better next time Ky. Shit like this doesn't make you or those against gun control look very intelligent.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If her attacker is close enough to her to rape and strangle her, he's too close for her to get to her gun.

 

[3113]

I do wonder about any group that would use violence against women as an argument favoring guns. Have none of them ever read or heard about men who use legally obtained guns to threaten their wives? Hold their girlfriends hostage? Who put a gun against a woman's head and say, "Stay still or I'll blow your brains out!" while they rape them?

And do you really want to suggest that there is no way to keep women safe in or society beyond giving them a gun? Really? And thinking this makes one morally superior to those who believe there should be better or other ways to protect women from violent crime? Really? Because there seems to be a step missing in this saying--the willingness to kill.

So let me present a real life example rather than a hypothetical: A man who legally got a gun used it to hold hostage a schoolroom of Amish children and their teachers. The Amish are not for gun control. They are for no guns at all. Non-violence, no matter what. So there was no gun in the school room. The man shot five students, all girls, who died. Then committed suicide. The Amish forgave him, and they still advocate non-violence, no guns, no killing.

Are those who want to own guns for the purpose of killing really morally superior to the Amish?

Putting it another way, don't piss on my back and call it rain. Don't you dare argue that guns can prevent violence against women until and unless you can prove that every member of your gun fetish club, the same one that created this saying you love so much, never have and never will use a gun in committing violence against women. Most of all, don't you dare use violence against women just because you want to have your dangerous toys. Man up, and admit you want those guns because you like them and they're fun to shoot, not because you give a shit about women protecting themselves. Because you know damn well, most men in the alley are going to have a gun, too.

 

[R. Richard]

If you set me down in any major US city with $100 in my pocket, I can have a gun within an hour. If you set me down in any major US city with $1,000 in my pocket, I can have an assault rifle within an hour. What gun control?

The recent shooting of the football player Steve McNair, by his girlfriend, was done with a pistol, purchased from A CONVICTED FELON! What gun control?

In the western US are where I live, it's normal for at least a boy to get a .22 rifle at a very early age. The boy is required to observe safety rules, or the gun is taken away. Taking a boy's .22 rifle from him is a lot like castration. Once the boy gets good with the .22, he begins to lobby for 'a real gun.' Break into a house in the area where I live and you mostly add to the 'suicide statistics.' ["That there sumbitch broke into the lady's house and shot himself in the head six times."]

As to knowing how to use the guns, try shooting for a blue ribbon at the local county fair some time. I did. I shot a 'possible' for the second round after a slow start. Unfortunately, two gahdam juvenile delinquents also shot a 'possible' for the second round. The kids know how to use a gun, but they have no respect for their elders at all.

 

[Recidiva]

We have several guns in the house. My husband, my daughter and I all know how to operate those guns and they've been customized to make sure I can fire it accurately, the kickback doesn't hurt me, the reload mechanism is reliable and I can do so quickly and efficiently.

My husband has a concealed carry license and almost always when outside the home, has a gun on him. You'd never know it because it's concealed.

We've never had to use them, but I think knowing how to use a tool that can be demonstrably used to defend yourself at long range is as valid a plan for emergency as having a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher and drilling how to use them and where they are and making sure they're maintained.

My husband's had attackers back off just by reaching to the back of his pants where maybe he might have it on him.

I've had friends hold off attackers at the door of their homes and defending it from break in, friends that kept attackers at bay while they called the police to turn them in, and people who have effectively defended themselves without bloodshed or firing a weapon, just by brandishing it.

I prefer to be prepared for the worst and having the best outcome. Not planning for the best outcome and having the worst.

I'd much rather be subjected to a self defense trial than subject my family to my funeral.

 

[Belegon]

I am not an advocate for firearms. Hate the damn things actually, at least on some levels. I do recognize their technological superiority and know why the weapons I prefer are no longer those of choice.

But a gun is just a tool. It will be used responsibly by some, irresponsibly by others.

Unfortunately, to kill with a gun is far simpler that to kill with a rapier. I promise you that some street thug who is just slashing around with a sword will not kill me with my level of knowledge. Even if I were unarmed, I could take it from him.

Anyone who can point can get lucky with a firearm... although people would be well and truly shocked to realize how inaccurate the majority are under stress.

As to the constant argument that if we teach everyone proper respect for firearms than the problems will go away, I find it ludicrous.

The responsible people aren't the problem.

 

[Liar]

My gripe with the gun debate is not political, but cultural.

I understand the right to own and carry guns. And I understand the risk involved in not carrying one. However microscopic that risk may be. But it's like life jackets in a plane. The risk that you will crash into the sea at any given moment is pretty minimal. But that's beside the point, if it happens.

What I can't and won't ever understand, are the people I hear ever so often, who express affection for their guns.

Guns are weapons. Weapons are tools designed to hurt, injure or kill people.
To hurt, injure and kill people is bad. (Even if you have no choice. A nessecary evil is also an evil.) Tools for that purpose is a pretty fucked up concept. On the other hand, since reality is a sometimes pretty fucked up place, we need some pretty fucked up things to get by. Weapons, prisons, taxes, abortions... take your pick. It's not things to like. They are all, at least in my opinion, things that the world would be happier without. Provided there was no need for them.

If both sides of the issue could reconcile at least over this, and then discuss the nessecities and risks involved in gun rights and gun control, I wouldn't have to grit my teeth over it all the time.

 

[Recidiva]

My gripe with the gun debate is not political, but cultural.

I understand the right to own and carry guns. And I understand the risk involved in not carrying one. However microscopic that risk may be. But it's like life jackets in a plane. The risk that you will crash into the sea at any given moment is pretty minimal. But that's beside the point, if it happens.

What I can't and won't ever understand, are the people I hear ever so often, who express affection for their guns.

Guns are weapons. Weapons are tools designed to hurt, injure or kill people.
To hurt, injure and kill people is bad. (Even if you have no choice. A nessecary evil is also an evil.) Tools for that purpose is a pretty fucked up concept. On the other hand, since reality is a sometimes pretty fucked up place, we need some pretty fucked up things to get by. Weapons, prisons, taxes, abortions... take your pick. It's not things to like. They are all, at least in my opinion, things that the world would be happier without. Provided there was no need for them.

If both sides of the issue could reconcile at least over this, and then discuss the nessecities and risks involved in gun rights and gun control, I wouldn't have to grit my teeth over it all the time.

I was raised by a very do-it-yourself father. He taught me how to build fires and it became my chore to keep the fire burning. As I got older I discovered a lot of the things that I was taught to do as a matter of fact "this is what you do..." thing became about danger and intrigue to my friends.

My friends wanted to play with matches and invariably burned themselves or singed off their hair or did something stupid. I found fire to be intensely boring and pedantic. Because my father built our house and its only heat was wood fire and I was tired of chopping wood all summer and tired of tending fire all winter.

I find guns to be loud, stinky and a pain in the ass to maintain. I don't enjoy target practice, but I go every few months to make sure I maintain a skill. My only tip to my sense of humor is using zombie shooting targets rather than ones that have human outlines. I prefer zombies. That's my weird thing. But that doesn't mean I'm actually believing I'm preparing for the Zombie Armageddon. There is no power or rush or anything associated with it other than "This is a tool, use it right and don't have it used against you."

I grew up in a house with guns, my father showed me how they worked and I never cared otherwise. It's not about power or romance or forbidden. It's about knowing how to do it right and that's sometimes a pain in the ass. I was also taught Judo for an appreciation of a pure martial art, and what control and discipline meant under fair conditions, and then I was taught self defense and dirty street fighting once I could handle the fair conditions, so I could prepare for the entirely unfair conditions I might be facing in life.

I reject that it's romantic or exciting or powerful or any of the other things other than a tool. For me anyway. I show my kids what guns are and why they work and how to do it. I tell my son "This is a gun. We don't want you to touch it when we're not here, but we'll show you how it works and what it is, and when you're old enough, you can learn how to use it." and he says "Okay" like I did as a kid and that was the end of it. My daughter learned how to shoot when she was old enough and could handle it.

Of course misused tools are tragic and horrible. But that's the nature of responsibility and lack of it. I don't want my stove gone because houses burn down. I don't want my car removed because other people drink and drive.

I'm a responsible gun owner and there are lots and lots of people like me for whom it is not a big deal and it is just something their families did, know how to do, and keep on doing because "this is how you do it" is part of our tradition.

We don't show up in the news and it's not likely we'll ever have to use it. It's no more romantic or forbidden or about power or fear than the stove or the car or the fire extinguisher.

I'm not someone who loves my gun. I don't mind those who love their gun, as long as they use it correctly and not in commission of a felony.