Lotr

[wishfulthinking]

Ok, I told someone that LOTR has a happy ending. They watched it, and was pissed off we me because Froddo died. DID he die?

I thought he went off to the immortal lands of something - ok, a sort of death, but in the spirit of gandolf the grey returns as white - it is not the final kind of death as heaven or hell. And they were getting on a boat - the elves were going to get on a boat, and I wouldn't have thought they were dying/died.

I need the answer in simple [idiot] speech. I've watched the movies, but haven't read the books.

It is sort of like Crouching Tiger - did she die? I didn't think so.

 

[rgraham666]

You're right wishful. Frodo did get on a boat to travel with the Elves to Valinor, Tolkien's equivalent of Heaven.

I was pissed because in the book, Gimli got to go too. The only Dwarf in Heaven.

 

[snooper]

... I've watched the movies, but haven't read the books. ...

In which case you have probably ruined yourself for reading the books. You have my sympathy because Tolkein was a brilliant writer, and the pictures in my mind as I read were so much better than the films.

Still, you could try reading them. And there is a wonderful radio adaptation which doesn't spoil any of the mind-pictures at all.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Ok, I told someone that LOTR has a happy ending. They watched it, and was pissed off we me because Froddo died. DID he die?

I thought he went off to the immortal lands of something - ok, a sort of death, but in the spirit of gandolf the grey returns as white - it is not the final kind of death as heaven or hell. And they were getting on a boat - the elves were going to get on a boat, and I wouldn't have thought they were dying/died.

I need the answer in simple [idiot] speech. I've watched the movies, but haven't read the books.

It is sort of like Crouching Tiger - did she die? I didn't think so.

Actually, frodo travels to Valinor. There, he entered the undying lands. According to tolkie, Eru, the one gave separate dooms to men & elves. Elves were immortal, if they died on middle earth they went to the halls of mandos and waited for a period, then were free to roam in valinor. No one knew what became of men, except that they did not go to the hall sof mandos and what became of their spirits in death, none could say.

The begining story dosen't mention hobbits. No one knows if they suffer the doom of men or some other, but they do NOT go to valinor or to the halls of mandos. So Frodo & bilbo are especially blessed, being given life immortal with the elves and living among walking gods.

Gimli does go across the waters, as does Legolas and Sam. But all of these crossings occur far later than Frodo and Bilbo passing. So the end where it is dosen't preclude gimli or sam from jourying across the waters and taking the straigh path.

Hope that helps.

-Colly

Edited to add: Gandalf isn't a man. He is an anuir. A demi god of sorts. He returns to Valinor, because he was sent from Valinor to help Men & elves in their fight against Sauron (another Anuir).

 

[Belegon]

Ahh, I detect a couple of other Tolkien fans who have gobbled up appendices, Lost Tales and all.

Frodo's time in the shire is much longer in the books but the pain of his wounds on Weathertop and at Cirith Ungol never leave him, nor do some of the health issues from having borne the ring and having had it torn away. Three years, I believe, pass before the the ship leaves the havens. The move to Valinor is implied to have relieved these troubles. Sam goes to the Havens many years later, after Rosie's death of natural causes. Legolas and Gimli go together, also many years later, after the death of King Elessar.

BTW, did either Colly or Rgraham pick up on my screen name? I have used it as a non-de-plume for more than twenty years, but it has elvish roots.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Ahh, I detect a couple of other Tolkien fans who have gobbled up appendices, Lost Tales and all.

Frodo's time in the shire is much longer in the books but the pain of his wounds on Weathertop and at Cirith Ungol never leave him, nor do some of the health issues from having borne the ring and having had it torn away. Three years, I believe, pass before the the ship leaves the havens. The move to Valinor is implied to have relieved these troubles. Sam goes to the Havens many years later, after Rosie's death of natural causes. Legolas and Gimli go together, also many years later, after the death of King Elessar.

BTW, did either Colly or Rgraham pick up on my screen name? I have used it as a non-de-plume for more than twenty years, but it has elvish roots.

Beleg Cuthalion was an elvish hero, his name translated roughly to strong bow.

It's been years, but if my sindar is still with me, Beleg would be mighty or strong. I can't for the life of me remember what the on ending would signify

-Colly (tolkien geek)

 

[Lisa Denton]

Written on the subway cars in NYC during much of the late 60's was the books "accurate" ending. Before any movie was thought about. I saw a web site somewhere that showed oldie looking subway cars with the graffiti.

"Frodo Lives"

 

[CharleyH]

The ending of the film, as far as I recall, had several happy endings which lasted an hour each, and practically put me to sleep.

After three years of following, I was sadly disappointed.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by CharleyH
The ending of the film, as far as I recall, had several happy endings which lasted an hour each, and practically put me to sleep.

After three years of following, I was sadly disappointed.

I, personally, was taken aback by the unending chain of joy at the end of the movies. Here's some joy... and oh, yet more joy... and we can end it right here but... fuck that, take some joy with a little joy on top... then, put some joy in each hand while you snort some joy off the ass of a young Cuban boy named "Joy"... followed by a moment of really joyous joy.

*shudder*

Were the books /that/ redundant?

 

[Nemasis Enforcer]

The ending of the movie is exactly the same as in the books, I have read each book 3 times and watched the movies lots more (not bad for 19 years old lol)

Infact I have most of Tolkens work including... Unfinished Tales and The Silmarilion.

Frodo does indeed leave on the last elven ship to the Undying Land and there he remains.

But I must say Sauron was a Maia as (in the Undyling Lands) was Gandalf... on Middle Earth Gandalf was an Istari (Wizard of Middle Earth)

 

[sweetnpetite]

Ahh, I detect a couple of other Tolkien fans who have gobbled up appendices, Lost Tales and all.

Frodo's time in the shire is much longer in the books but the pain of his wounds on Weathertop and at Cirith Ungol never leave him, nor do some of the health issues from having borne the ring and having had it torn away. Three years, I believe, pass before the the ship leaves the havens. The move to Valinor is implied to have relieved these troubles. Sam goes to the Havens many years later, after Rosie's death of natural causes. Legolas and Gimli go together, also many years later, after the death of King Elessar.

BTW, did either Colly or Rgraham pick up on my screen name? I have used it as a non-de-plume for more than twenty years, but it has elvish roots.

Oh my god, I really am dislexic!


All this time, I thought you were Belgion. (sp?-- like waffles)

 

[Wildcard Ky]

More simply put, Frodo and Bilbo were allowed to go to the undying lands because they had been ring bearers. It was the only place they could go to find peace and inner healing in their lives.

 

[razor_nut]

The ending of the movie is exactly the same as in the books,

Well no not exactly. What was in the movies was accurate, but the Scouring of The Shire was left out.

For those that haven't read the booksl, basically what happens is the Hobbits return to The Shire only to find the land torn apart and their kin in forced labor under Men. Saruman and Grima Wormtongue are behind it, and are leading the men enslaving the halflings. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin fight to take back THe Shire and succeed. In another act of pity, Frodo spares Saruman, now just a decrepit old man. Only moments later does Grima stab Saruman in the back.
It takes time, but the towns are rebuilt and all that is green and good returns.

 

[tolyk]

Damn, I must've blanked out that part of the book.. its been a long time since I read it.. all I remember is Frodo losing the finger which he bore the ring on.. Golum bites it off doesn't he? I don't remember anything about him going to the undying lands... Oh well, I never cared for the books, too drawn out.. Lord of the Rings is a history story based off the world that "The Hobbit" immerses you into (Which is actually an action filled book, unlike the boring story of LOTR, which in my opinion makes a much better movie than book..)

Tolkien is most definately a good world-builder, but I found LOTR way too dull and descriptive to capture my attention. Oh, and I haven't seen the third movie yet.. Waiting on teh extended version (which apparently doesn't come out until December) which I will buy and watch, like I did the first two. (Now when are they making The Hobbit movie? )


Oh, and just a tidbit, if you like descriptive worlds, another good series to read is "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" by Tad Williams.. it is 3 books in hardcover, 4 in soft... I enjoyed this series way more than I'll ever enjoy LOTR (Would love a movie based on it)

 

[snooper]

More simply put, Frodo and Bilbo were allowed to go to the undying lands because they had been ring bearers. It was the only place they could go to find peace and inner healing in their lives.

So why didn't Golum also?

 

[wishfulthinking]

I, personally, was taken aback by the unending chain of joy at the end of the movies. Here's some joy... and oh, yet more joy... and we can end it right here but... fuck that, take some joy with a little joy on top... then, put some joy in each hand while you snort some joy off the ass of a young Cuban boy named "Joy"... followed by a moment of really joyous joy.

Thank you! I don't know how much more joyful an ending needs to be to get it through some thick skulls!

Also, I was hoping the red haired chick [aussie miranda otto or something] and the guy that becomes king would get together. Liv tyler was ok, but you can see the other female qould make a far better queen.

 

[doormouse]

Am I the only person who hasn't seen a single episode?

Single mum and it's too old for kids

It'll be outdated by the time they're old enough to watch it.

 

[Nemasis Enforcer]

So why didn't Golum also?

Cos he fell into the fires of Mount Doom and dies with the ring

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Damn, I must've blanked out that part of the book.. its been a long time since I read it.. all I remember is Frodo losing the finger which he bore the ring on.. Golum bites it off doesn't he? I don't remember anything about him going to the undying lands... Oh well, I never cared for the books, too drawn out.. Lord of the Rings is a history story based off the world that "The Hobbit" immerses you into (Which is actually an action filled book, unlike the boring story of LOTR, which in my opinion makes a much better movie than book..)

Tolkien is most definately a good world-builder, but I found LOTR way too dull and descriptive to capture my attention. Oh, and I haven't seen the third movie yet.. Waiting on teh extended version (which apparently doesn't come out until December) which I will buy and watch, like I did the first two. (Now when are they making The Hobbit movie? )


Oh, and just a tidbit, if you like descriptive worlds, another good series to read is "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" by Tad Williams.. it is 3 books in hardcover, 4 in soft... I enjoyed this series way more than I'll ever enjoy LOTR (Would love a movie based on it)

Didn't Tad William's write tailchaser's song?

-Colly

 

[Belegon]

Thank you! I don't know how much more joyful an ending needs to be to get it through some thick skulls!

Also, I was hoping the red haired chick [aussie miranda otto or something] and the guy that becomes king would get together. Liv tyler was ok, but you can see the other female qould make a far better queen.

Even in movies that long, the book is so crammed with info and stories something had to be left out. Eowyn falls in love with Faramir while they are both recuperating from their wounds in Minas Tirith. It is one of best pairings, if not the best, that Tolkien comes up with IMHO.

Aragorn and Arwen have already been in love with each other for a normal human lifetime. One of the changes that many Tolkien fans dislike is the possibility that Arwen would forsake him. It is never an issue in the books.

 

[Belegon]

Didn't Tad William's write tailchaser's song?

-Colly

Yes. And many other good works. He is a wonderful writer.

 

[snooper]

So why didn't Golum also?

Cos he fell into the fires of Mount Doom and dies with the ring [/QUOTE] That's how he didn't. I asked why any ringbearer would not be allowed to go to the undying lands?

Perhaps all ringbearers are equal, but some are more equal than others?

 

[Nemasis Enforcer]

That's how he didn't. I asked why any ringbearer would not be allowed to go to the undying lands?

Perhaps all ringbearers are equal, but some are more equal than others? [/B]

Its never been said (as far as I know) that any ringbearer wouldn't have been allowed into the Undying Lands, so I assume that even Golum would have been taken but I doubt he would have gone even if he had the offer.