London explosion

[moonlight elf]

Please, people.....please.

This is neither the time or the place for an argument on semantics. If you want a discussion on how to respond to terrorism, do it somewhere else.

For now, my thoughts are totally focussed on the victims and their loved ones. How they must be feeling.

I have just watched the late evening news, all the horror, the pain, the fear.....right here in my home...and all I can do is cry.

Sleep will be a long time coming tonight.

I agree. The people come first. We should focus our thoughts on the victims and their families.

My stomach was in nots this morning when I heard the news. My Mom has family there and we have been waiting for news. Earlier I emailed friends to check on them. This is the time to stand by each other and to share our strength.

No words can take away the pain, fear or the senselessness of what has happened but together we can overcome it.

 

[matriarch]

Going to try and sleep now.......if I can get the images out of my head.

Goodnight.

 

[moonlight elf]

Going to try and sleep now.......if I can get the images out of my head.

Goodnight.

*hugs* Auntie

If you need a shoulder to lean on you know where to find me.

 

[erise]

You're quite right, mat. My apologies.

Mine too. Didn't mean to stray away from what really matters on a day like this.

 

[impressive]

Just returned home after the full day away and learned of this. My heart goes out to the victims ... and to the nation.

I'm SO relieved that our Litizens are safe.

 

[Despina]

Completely and utterly senseless.

 

[oggbashan]

Completely and utterly senseless.

Those who committed these acts used their brains and intelligence to plan a coordinated attack. They may lack a normal sense of right and wrong. They do have intelligence and use it to kill and maim people.

It may seem senseless to us. To them it makes perfect sense. That is the tragedy of fanatics.

Og

 

[Guest]

 

[amicus]

And after the next senseless slaughter of innocents...and the next and the next and the next?

Will it ever be time to identify and intervene?



amicus

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Those who committed these acts used their brains and intelligence to plan a coordinated attack. They may lack a normal sense of right and wrong. They do have intelligence and use it to kill and maim people.

It may seem senseless to us. To them it makes perfect sense. That is the tragedy of fanatics.

Og

As I said earlier on the other thread about this, maybe it being senseless is precisely what gives it sense. If they (whoever they might have been) wanted to attack the political and economical leadership of the world, they would have bombed the G8 summit, and you wouldn't even need a leaflet. You would immediately know what the purpose was, and you would write it off as yet another criminal act.

But senseless, gratuitous violence against random people - it makes you stop. It makes the whole world stop.

 

[Despina]

And after the next senseless slaughter of innocents...and the next and the next and the next?

Will it ever be time to identify and intervene?



amicus

Isn't that what the US and the UK are calling their presence in Afghanistan and Iraq? An intervention.

Sure, buddy. That seems to be working splendidly.

 

[oggbashan]

And after the next senseless slaughter of innocents...and the next and the next and the next?

Will it ever be time to identify and intervene?



amicus

What do you think the security services in the UK and around the western world are trying to do right now? They are trying to identify and isolate the criminals who murdered today.

There have been several aborted attacks on London before today. They were aborted because the security services found and arrested the terrorists before they could act. Unfortunately the security services have to be lucky every time. The terrorists have to be lucky just once.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

...But senseless, gratuitous violence against random people - it makes you stop. It makes the whole world stop.

That is what the terrorists wanted to achieve. The way to defeat them, as Tony Blair said today, is to continue to live our lives as normally as possible; to go to work tomorrow just like any other day; to visit London as we would have done before the attacks and to refuse to allow the random slaughter to affect our lives.

We did it in World Wars I and II and through the IRA bombing campaign. We can and will continue to live as if the terrorists were not worthy of gaining our attention and leave their fate to the judiciary when they are caught.

Og

 

[Despina]

Those who committed these acts used their brains and intelligence to plan a coordinated attack. They may lack a normal sense of right and wrong. They do have intelligence and use it to kill and maim people.

It may seem senseless to us. To them it makes perfect sense. That is the tragedy of fanatics.

Og

I quite agree with you there, Og, but to what end does their intelligence bring them gain? I know not. What is the statement they've made, other than, "We're angry, and we're capable." I know politics is convoluted on the best of days, but I fail to see any other gain than fear. That's plenty powerful, sure, but what has it brought them thus far? I can't imagine the results of the G8 summit will be significantly altered, but I could be wrong.

 

[oggbashan]

I quite agree with you there, Og, but to what end does their intelligence bring them gain? I know not. What is the statement they've made, other than, "We're angry, and we're capable." I know politics is convoluted on the best of days, but I fail to see any other gain than fear. That's plenty powerful, sure, but what has it brought them thus far? I can't imagine the results of the G8 summit will be significantly altered, but I could be wrong.

They have temporarily diverted attention from the G8 summit enough to make Tony Blair make a short trip to London. He is now back there and the G8 will continue as before. What will be achieved there will be the same as if the bombing attack had not happened. Almost all the G8 leaders have experience of terrorist attacks in their capital cities. One more attack changes nothing, just as the violent protesters in Scotland change nothing. The non-violent protesters who have a reasoned message might have a slight influence. Live8 had a large influence. Terrorism has no influence.

The terrorists do not understand that people refuse to be terrorised.

Og

 

[amicus]

Og, I most always enjoy your posts, both the content and the tone.

Although I am not a student of Winston Churchill, I have read several histories and biographies of his time and it seems to me he warned the British people, early on of coming conflicts in both WW1 and 2 and foresaw the 'iron curtain' descending around the Soviet Union.

I heard those words you used said today in London and they were said in New York following 9/11.

I personally would be more at ease if our leaders and yours were to emphasize that life can not go on as before; that we cannot ignore the terrorists nor let them interrupt our lives.

I would much rather both nations go on a full war footing; set aside our daily and individual desires and prepare for the coming apocalypse.

I truly hope my predictions are wrong, but I see the eventual use of a weapon of mass destruction in a major city/cities that takes perhaps a hundred thousand lives.

Do you personally think we should wait for such an eventuality?

Even with the intensified security all over the world, it has been demonstrated once again that terrorists are capable of striking anywhere at anytime.

I think the source of that terror must be rooted out and destroyed.

I think the EU must solidify around the US and GB, or will it take a major event in Berlin or Paris or perhaps Rotterdam?

amicus...

 

[maggot420]

Og, I most always enjoy your posts, both the content and the tone.

Although I am not a student of Winston Churchill, I have read several histories and biographies of his time and it seems to me he warned the British people, early on of coming conflicts in both WW1 and 2 and foresaw the 'iron curtain' descending around the Soviet Union.

I heard those words you used said today in London and they were said in New York following 9/11.

I personally would be more at ease if our leaders and yours were to emphasize that life can not go on as before; that we cannot ignore the terrorists nor let them interrupt our lives.

I would much rather both nations go on a full war footing; set aside our daily and individual desires and prepare for the coming apocalypse.

I truly hope my predictions are wrong, but I see the eventual use of a weapon of mass destruction in a major city/cities that takes perhaps a hundred thousand lives.

Do you personally think we should wait for such an eventuality?

Even with the intensified security all over the world, it has been demonstrated once again that terrorists are capable of striking anywhere at anytime.

I think the source of that terror must be rooted out and destroyed.

I think the EU must solidify around the US and GB, or will it take a major event in Berlin or Paris or perhaps Rotterdam?

amicus...

Assuming you get your wish and both nations go on a full war footing, how long do you think it would take to kill all your enemies? And what would be the most efficient way to accomplish this task?
Just curious.

I hope all our litizens are safe. My heart goes out to those who have lost.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I would much rather both nations go on a full war footing; set aside our daily and individual desires and prepare for the coming apocalypse.

Against whom? The great difficulty is not in mustering troops, but in identifying an enemy. There's no nation or army attacking us. Who would you target?

I think the source of that terror must be rooted out and destroyed.

So far, your only identification of the source of terror has been "worldwide Islamic terrorism." What source are you aiming for? All Muslims, worldwide? Sounds like a bit of a tall order to me. Are you going to include the ones serving in our armed forces and police departments, or will they be helping in the butchering?

 

[Despina]

The terrorists do not understand that people refuse to be terrorised.

Og

Thanks for the clarification of the G8 summit.

This is why I can't help but feel such loss is senseless. Perhaps it is all down to us v. them, but regardless of their intelligence in designing these attacks I just don't see the sense in any of it.

 

[Guest]

Thinking of everyone today.

 

[oggbashan]

Against whom? The great difficulty is not in mustering troops, but in identifying an enemy. There's no nation or army attacking us. Who would you target?



So far, your only identification of the source of terror has been "worldwide Islamic terrorism." What source are you aiming for? All Muslims, worldwide? Sounds like a bit of a tall order to me. Are you going to include the ones serving in our armed forces and police departments, or will they be helping in the butchering?

And are you going to include those Muslims who died and were injured on 9/11 and (now) yesterday's attack in London?

London is a multicultural, multifaith city. Most Londoners do not know or care whether the person next to them believes in a Christian God, in Allah, in the Sun-disk or has no faith at all - just as the majority do not care whether their neighbour is white, black, yellow, red, purple or green.

The community of London has been cosmopolitan for generations. There are areas where some non-English nationalities congregate but none where they predominate. British UK Citizens can have come from any country in the world. Walking through London it seems that they have. How do you separate the terrorist from the teeming mass?

Og

 

[amicus]

Maggot...Shanglan....

You both asked pretty much the same question, even if it is tongue in cheek.

The source and the justification of combatting evil goes all the way back to the right of self preservation.

It extends from self, to loved ones and then to friends and neighbors under threat if you can assist.

Supposing that instead of todays attack on London, it was the fictional film, 'Dirty War' that postulated highly radioactive waste was included in an 'Oklahoma City' sized bombing.

Would the immediate death of 10's of thousands and the eventual death of hundreds of thousands from radioactive contamination be sufficient cause to seek an answer of 'who' to attack and where?

Although many Litsters do not seem capable of comprehending the concept of individual rights or recognize that the essential right is that of life, perhaps if I do the ABC's with you, a few might.

You have a right to your life. You have the right to defend it. You have the right to defend the rights of your friends, neighbors and countrymen, even perhaps the obligation to defend, if called upon.

Every human being alive on the planet possess those same rights.

Extend that logic and realize that any nation that acts to preserve its own rights, has moral authority, if not also obligation to come to the defense of humans everywhere whose rights are denied.

Thus should it be decided to invade Iran and Syria to restore the rights of those people, it would be a moral act.

Now that people from those nations and several others, have ventured forth to visit terrorist atrocities around the globe, it becomes imperative that those dictatorships be eliminated. As both a mechanism of self defense and as a humanitarian act of good will.


amicus...

 

[amicus]

OG....."...How do you separate the terrorist from the teeming mass?..."

That is the problem, is it not?

Perhaps the source of the ideology?

 

[gauchecritic]

Here's a radical thought. Ok. The Islamic fundamentalists don't like capitalism and its 'evils'. Anti-globalists are self defining. Lots of the Yanqui public don't like starting wars to fuel international oil prices. And the whole world is fed up of Hollywood blockbusters. (If they were of any particular merit they wouldn't be on dvd after 3 months)

So here's my loony leftwing, communist, wishy washy liberal, surrender monkey idea:

Stop the free west from economically invading the peace loving peoples of non-democratic countries.

If you don't like their idea of government don't trade with them.
If you really want to help the people of other nations by giving them MacDonalds outlets, keep all the profits from that country in that country.
Don't allow international arms dealers to be private enterprises.
Stop going on television and emphatically stating that our god is better than theirs.

In the words of drunk's friends on Saturday nights "Leave it, they're not worth it."

 

[amicus]

Despina..."...Isn't that what the US and the UK are calling their presence in Afghanistan and Iraq? An intervention.

Sure, buddy. That seems to be working splendidly...."


The US & UK and 40 other nations from around the world attempting to contain terror.

You may vaguely recall the Allies of world war two, you may also recall the United Nations peacekeeping forces from around the world in Korea and Vietnam as they attempted to contain communist terrorism.

and you really should hope we succeed in the Middle East....


amicus...