Litiquette VI

[Trekka]

I wish I had the intelligence of many trade workers. If schools weren’t so focused on testing and scores set forth by legislators, we could do a much better job of identifying kids’ strengths and helping them be successful in them.

Somebody pull me off of this soapbox because I will stay there all night!

 

[Pervy_Sage]

Somebody pull me off of this soapbox because I will stay there all night!

Tell you what. You stay on the soapbox, and I’ll snap upskirt pics. Deal?

 

[Lord Pmann]

Fuck, you’re turning me on.

No. I’m still not clicking that link.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I wish I had the intelligence of many trade workers. If schools weren’t so focused on testing and scores set forth by legislators, we could do a much better job of identifying kids’ strengths and helping them be successful in them.

My understanding is... Schools were intended to make workers for factories, so they had an agenda with their education system. Little has changed. We teach them so many things, but not some of the most useful skills out there. I took four European based history classes in high school. Four. I live in America.

But you know what I didn’t learn? Anything regarding personal finance or taxes or any of that. I was blessed with parents who taught me those things.

I’m not saying taking a European history class or two was bad. But why not throw in some actual practical life skills. Home economics. Shop class. Woodworking. These are things that are important. And they can help identify areas of skill for the person who isn’t great at tests.

 

[Pervy_Sage]

My understanding is... Schools were intended to make workers for factories, so they had an agenda with their education system. Little has changed. We teach them so many things, but not some of the most useful skills out there. I took four European based history classes in high school. Four. I live in America.

But you know what I didn’t learn? Anything regarding personal finance or taxes or any of that. I was blessed with parents who taught me those things.

I’m not saying taking a European history class or two was bad. But why not throw in some actual practical life skills. Home economics. Shop class. Woodworking. These are things that are important. And they can help identify areas of skill for the person who isn’t great at tests.

You’re right. That was the original purpose of the educational system. While it has gone through some shifts here and there, overall, it’s an antiquated system with oversight and decision makers who know nothing about what kids need.

 

[tnman03]

I work in electrical engineering. Among the projects and people with whom I work, I manage a group of people that, if you look at them, you’d think they were carnies. However, after about 4-5 years when they are through with their apprenticeship, the guys make six figures. So you’ve got a 23-24 year old guy, no college degree making $100k a year. Many of them go work temporarily in California and make absurd amounts of money- $200-300k in a year. It’s hard work. And it’s dangerous. At the end of some days, they come home and they’re filthy. If they want to quit, they do so and they have a job the next day. I’ve never seen one out of work who wanted to work.

These are guys that are amazing at working with their hands. They’re problem solvers and fixers. But they’re not classroom guys. They don’t speak with eloquence. Someone would’ve done a disservice pushing these guys to college. But I’ll be damned if they’re not as hard working and smart as the engineers or people who manage them.

I wish I had the intelligence of many trade workers. If schools weren’t so focused on testing and scores set forth by legislators, we could do a much better job of identifying kids’ strengths and helping them be successful in them.

Somebody pull me off of this soapbox because I will stay there all night!

US schools used to teach building and trades courses, welding, and machine work. Now, not so much so, it became all about promoting college degree paths. The sad thing is I know far more people who went on to become HVAC Techs, electricians, plumbers, or framers who make more money. The only benefit a college degree would give someone in those trades were if they earned something applicable in a business management path. They can do that well after they're established if they choose to do so.

 

[Pervy_Sage]

US schools used to teach building and trades courses, welding, and machine work. Now, not so much so, it became all about promoting college degree paths. The sad thing is I know far more people who went on to become HVAC Techs, electricians, plumbers, or framers who make more money. The only benefit a college degree would give someone in those trades were if they earned something applicable in a business management path. They can do that well after they're established if they choose to do so.

And for all of my education, my earnings are capped to where most of my students will out earn me with their skills and trades.

 

[tnman03]

And for all of my education, my earnings are capped to where most of my students will out earn me with their skills and trades.

This is most likely so, but the positive influence of good K-12 educators who provide the foundational education to succeed in trades is pretty damned important in my book. Sometimes the best rewards aren't always money, knowing you made a difference means a lot.

 

[Pervy_Sage]

This is most likely so, but the positive influence of good K-12 educators who provide the foundational education to succeed in trades is pretty damned important in my book. Sometimes the best rewards aren't always money, knowing you made a difference means a lot.

It’s the only reason I keep doing it.

 

[Orchidea73]

How realistic should we be about potential? Or our natural gifts? Can we do anything or be anything we want to be, if we work hard enough?

No, not anything. There are certain professions that need skills and talents (e.g. arts) where just hard work isn't enough. You can learn the "profession", but you can never be a great one without the gift.

 

[blade_rocknut]

I work in electrical engineering. Among the projects and people with whom I work, I manage a group of people that, if you look at them, you’d think they were carnies. However, after about 4-5 years when they are through with their apprenticeship, the guys make six figures. So you’ve got a 23-24 year old guy, no college degree making $100k a year. Many of them go work temporarily in California and make absurd amounts of money- $200-300k in a year. It’s hard work. And it’s dangerous. At the end of some days, they come home and they’re filthy. If they want to quit, they do so and they have a job the next day. I’ve never seen one out of work who wanted to work.

These are guys that are amazing at working with their hands. They’re problem solvers and fixers. But they’re not classroom guys. They don’t speak with eloquence. Someone would’ve done a disservice pushing these guys to college. But I’ll be damned if they’re not as hard working and smart as the engineers or people who manage them.

Fuck, you’re turning me on.

Shit, he just turned me on.

 

[Trekka]

Shit, he just turned me on.

I know right?

 

[hotwords229_A]

Dude, I think we said the same thing, at the same time, but with different words. Are we related?

I hope not because I’ve been inappropriate

 

[Lord Pmann]

No, not anything. There are certain professions that need skills and talents (e.g. arts) where just hard work isn't enough. You can learn the "profession", but you can never be a great one without the gift.

I agree. There is so much that must be naturally inherent.

Shit, he just turned me on.

Was it the guitars?

 

[Pervy_Sage]

I agree. There is so much that must be naturally inherent.



Was it the guitars?

If that’s all it takes, I have a few guitars! Geez!

 

[Lord Pmann]

Another spinoff question.

Success. How is it measured? Society says with money and an elite job. But most would agree that’s a poor measure, even though many can’t get it out of their brain. How successful do you feel you are? How have your views of success changed over the years?

You’re The Best by Joe Esposito

https://youtu.be/oomCIXGzsR0

 

[Orchidea73]

Another spinoff question.

Success. How is it measured? Society says with money and an elite job. But most would agree that’s a poor measure, even though many can’t get it out of their brain. How successful do you feel you are? How have your views of success changed over the years?

You’re The Best by Joe Esposito

https://youtu.be/oomCIXGzsR0

I don't know about success. Never thought about it. Having a purpose it's what counts for me.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I don't know about success. Never thought about it. Having a purpose it's what counts for me.

Maybe that’s your measure of success?

 

[Orchidea73]

Maybe that’s your measure of success?

I would say "live your days well", whatever "well" is for you. I think that would be my measure of success.

 

[SassySheDevil]

Like Indie said. From the time my kids were born. I spent many years either working nights, (so one of us was always home with our own kids) working part time, or staying home with my kids.
I was fortunate enough to do that. My husband and I made the decision that we wanted to raise our kids, not ship them off to daycare. Don't get me wrong. I have No hatred/dislike/bad feelings etc, for those who send their kids to day care and go back to work. My Mom ran a daycare, and I have so much fucking respect for child care. But I wanted to be able to say that later in life, if my kids fucked up. It was because my husband and I failed in some way. Not blame it on someone else.
So I was there for EVERYTHING they did. All their school functions, sports, milestones etc.
But. When people asked what I did. I always got the "I see", "Oh", "do you miss work? having a career" Stuff.

But I have pretty fucking amazing kids and I am proud of them. I am happy I was always able to be there for them. I know so many parents that can't, and I know how lucky I am. I watched every major thing they went through.

But on the flip side of that. My husband worked his ass off to make sure we could do that for them. He is my measure of success. He works harder than anyone I know. He kicks ass all day at work (even now in all this mess) and then comes home and works even harder around the house. We are not rich. We are comfortable. We have what we need. We have a roof over our heads, we have food on the table, we have our cars and property and some toys.
We have a happy, healthy family, with kids that watched us "give" as they grew up, and now are just as giving to all those around them.
We've taken in kids who needed help, We've taken in friends who needed help. Our house is a revolving door of people, and we've always done what we could to help.
That is success to me.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Early on in my life I really thought success was measured by a good salary and a good, respectable job. As I’ve gotten older, I see that means very little. Perhaps it gets you the admiration of people who have less than you.

I think, for me, I’ve struggled (in the past) with that mentality too. Mainly when I was younger and trying to make a professional name for myself. As I’ve gotten older I see no amount of money or career wins make you happy, if you’re not doing what you love. I absolutely adore my job. I am grateful for what I do. A little over a year ago I switched industries to work in pharmaceuticals at a huge company. Seemed like a dream job. But man it sucked balls. I left almost immediately. What a fucking nightmare. I could’ve stayed and had a prestigious job, but I would’ve been miserable. So whose success definition would I fulfill?

I see people who are rich that are miserable. I see people who have nothing but their basic needs met and are content. Possessions are nice, but provide no real happiness. Money is nice and helpful, but it doesn’t make you happy.

I think the true question of success is this:

Are you being the best person you can be, doing the things you need to do and the things you want to do?

 

[StacyLeigh]

Success. How is it measured? Society says with money and an elite job. But most would agree that’s a poor measure, even though many can’t get it out of their brain. How successful do you feel you are? How have your views of success changed over the years?

I would measure success by your level of happiness and how true you are to yourself and your goals/desires. That's different for everyone.

Yes, some may only be happy if they have lots of money or a high profile career or the biggest house - and that's OK if those are the goals they set and those things truly make them happy. I can't say I would relate to that person though.

I struggle myself with feeling successful. I think I'm more successful in my career than elsewhere, but I'm also terribly hard on myself. I tend to think I have to do it all and if I'm not perfect at everything I'm failing everyone - so I suppose my view of success also includes my impact on others.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

Success is wanting what you have. It's enjoying what you do, every day, and being able to make a difference to the people in your community and beyond.

This pandemic has helped me realize just how successful I am.

As Dave Ramsay says "the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice". There's so much freedom in living humbly and truly wanting what you have.

 

[Lord Pmann]

As Dave Ramsay says "the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice". There's so much freedom in living humbly and truly wanting what you have.

I love Dave Ramsey. Amazing advice for people who want or need really practical talks on finances.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

I love Dave Ramsey. Amazing advice for people who want or need really practical talks on finances.

Agreed. We paid off a shit ton of debt using his principles. It's amazing how far you can stretch your money when you apply yourself (we actually ate rice and beans for a hot minute).