Link between creativity & mental illness

[NOIRTRASH]

Ah well, you can tell Jimi's playing just from listening to his guitar...

"Political change happens following technological change..."

I have discussions with a few people actively engaged in politics and who recently seem to worry a lot about the inability of society to find some means for significant political change. I try, but I find it very hard to suggest to them that indeed you have to wait for some kind of massive technological leap ahead, without which there will be no political change. I'm afraid I view this as indeed a fact, and one that most people don't want to hear.

iPads and the internet IS significant technological change, but it hasn't as yet found it's talons...

The key technology for change does need to be able to kill a bunch of people: the crossbow, 'Greek fire,' dynamite, the bomb, and so on.

I investigated it on my own. Recessions end and political regimes change when significant technological progress comes along. Places like Haiti and Cuba remain poor and oppressed because technology in such places is resisted by the elites. Revolution never springs from poor people, it comes from surplus cash to pay for it.

 

[jomar]

I dunno. Haven't read past the second page, but...

Back in the day they though intellectually gifted folk were weird but the Terman studies showed they were best in show all around.

I know of no studies linking creativity and mental illness at a greater % than in general. If someone can provide credible research I can be swayed...

Seems to me it's more along the lines of myth and urbane legendish stuff.

 

[Hypoxia]

Back in the day they though intellectually gifted folk were weird... Seems to me it's more along the lines of myth and urbane legendish stuff.

Quite. Back in a further day, educated people were thought to be evil warlocks. 'Glamour' (as in casting a spell, a 'glamour', on someone) is from the Scottish pronunciation of 'grammar'. If you knew grammar, if you could read and write, you were obviously in league with Satan. Simple pure godly folk were not burdened with such dangerous knowledge. Ignorance WAS bliss.

Creative folks are obviously dangerous too, be they writers of texts or poems or songs, creators of art or machines or ideas -- shit-disturbers all. Creating something new results in losing some old customary shit. It means breaking the old order. What, ruin what we already have? Why, that's CRAZY!!

Conservatives demand the same old shit. Creators make new shit. Selah!

 

[AlwaysHungry]

There's a famous study of this subject, or at least part of it, by psychiatrist Lawrence Kubie, called Neurotic Distortion of the Creative Process. People have different takes on the book (I haven't read it, myself.) Here's one example. Here's another. Apparently Kubie maintains that "these intertwined yet mortal enemies, the creative and the neurotic processes, are universal; because both arise in early childhood, not out of exceptional circumstances but out of simple and ubiquitous human experiences."

The more I think about it, the more I think that creativity is an essentially human quality, the birthright of any human, and a person who is not creative must have been fucked over by his environment in some way.

 

[loquere]

There have been many studies and books written on this topic. There are some convincing links to bipolar illness.

Creativity is a valve that keeps us from killing ourselves, and each other.

Wow, I need to read your stuff.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Jeez, I now realize I wasted 8 years in college and 65K paying for it, when all I needed was a LIT thread about unicorns to explain all.

 

[legerdemer]

Wow, I need to read your stuff.

Oh, please do.

Seriously though - I don't really believe there are strong links between creativity and mental illness, though Kay Jameson's book does show some studies with respect to bipolar illness. It's been many years since I read it.

My over the top statement referred to something that came to mind while traveling and looking at cathedrals, incredibly fine mosaics, pyramids ( which I haven't seen first hand) etc - that creativity (ideas of at least some individuals, and made into reality by others) has been used as offerings not only to "gods" but as ways to keep minds and hands busy rather than fomenting revolution. And no one will deny creativity is an outlet for dark as well as light thoughts (sounds a bit woo-woo but it's shorthand). So I did engage in a bit of hyperbole, perhaps, but not excessive.

 

[Handley_Page]

Oh, please do.

Seriously though - I don't really believe there are strong links between creativity and mental illness, though Kay Jameson's book does show some studies with respect to boyar illness.

.

If I recall aright, Vincent (van Gough) seems to be listed as one example.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

I recommend some study of bicameralism, to get a better idea of 'mental illness.'

I argue for a bicameral mind with archaic child and executive adult functions influenced by drugs and alcohol and stress. There's a change of command but no change of awareness.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

For a very short time - a VERY short time, perhaps a year maybe a year and a half - I worked for Warner Bros AAFC (Aust-Asia and AmFilmCo), and did some literary agenting basically because it was a huge tax wrtie-off for Warners outside of the US. And now that I look back there certainly were bipolar people brought into the office, usually by prominent stock brokers who were pushing this person or that person and usually based on other factors - their wealth, their family position, political positions, that kind of thing.

All of the manuscripts from the biploar people were exceptionally good at the start - and from memory, none of them ever finished any of the manuscripts and consequently never got either published or had film treatments worked up or were contracted.

That's my memory of it, looking back.

 

[Hypoxia]

I think that creativity is an essentially human quality, the birthright of any human, and a person who is not creative must have been fucked over by his environment in some way.

"I've got a headful of ideas that are driving me insane." -R.Zimmerman

I think that's about normal.

Maybe we get our minds scrubbed as we learn that most of our ideas are nutz.

Maybe we learn neurosis and paranoia because they *are* out to get us.

But we mostly create because we must, because the voices in our heads force us to create.

I always listen to my voices. Do you?

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Maybe we get our minds scrubbed as we learn that most of our ideas are nutz.

Maybe we learn neurosis and paranoia because they *are* out to get us.

I think that "they" are out to drown us in banality, and most people obediently learn to love it. It's the real opiate of the people. If one loves banality, creativity is unnecessary.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I think that "they" are out to drown us in banality, and most people obediently learn to love it. It's the real opiate of the people. If one loves banality, creativity is unnecessary.

Neuroses (anxiety disorders) and paranoia (I call it vigilance) are life-savers. Be very afraid and suspicious!

Creativity is damned necessary when a big truck fulla pipe shows up at 4 pm on Friday and you aint got a crane or crew to unload it.

 

[legerdemer]

"I've got a headful of ideas that are driving me insane." -R.Zimmerman

I think that's about normal.

Maybe we get our minds scrubbed as we learn that most of our ideas are nutz.

....

But we mostly create because we must, because the voices in our heads force us to create.

I always listen to my voices. Do you?

It takes a lot of bad/nutz ideas to have some good ones. In part, just having ideas, good or bad or nutz or brilliant, is something that needs to be encouraged and practiced, an organ that requires lubrication.

And I listen to my ideas way too much for comfort...

I think that "they" are out to drown us in banality, and most people obediently learn to love it. It's the real opiate of the people. If one loves banality, creativity is unnecessary.

Or at least, such folks willingly repress their creativity, and think nothing of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Neuroses (anxiety disorders) and paranoia (I call it vigilance) are life-savers. Be very afraid and suspicious!

Creativity is damned necessary when a big truck fulla pipe shows up at 4 pm on Friday and you aint got a crane or crew to unload it.

I agree with you, though I would have used a different example, one rather older in the evolutionary trajectory of humans, or primates for that matter.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

It takes a lot of bad/nutz ideas to have some good ones. In part, just having ideas, good or bad or nutz or brilliant, is something that needs to be encouraged and practiced, an organ that requires lubrication.

And I listen to my ideas way too much for comfort...



Or at least, such folks willingly repress their creativity, and think nothing of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.



I agree with you, though I would have used a different example, one rather older in the evolutionary trajectory of humans, or primates for that matter.

You never know from where the next great idea will come, so I allow all of them in my head for an audition.

 

[lovecraft68]

Neuroses (anxiety disorders) and paranoia (I call it vigilance) are life-savers. Be very afraid and suspicious!

Creativity is damned necessary when a big truck fulla pipe shows up at 4 pm on Friday and you aint got a crane or crew to unload it.

Hmmm undo the straps and tell him to drive backwards really fast and slam on the brakes?