Limeycare

[oggbashan]

OG

No shit, Sherlock.

Working for the government is like that; every asshat administrator tries to justify her job with irrelevant data collecting, but lets patient care slide.

My local Juvemile Welfare Board has no money to dispense services so staff spends 4 days creating reports, then spends one day presenting their reports at a mandatory staff meeting.

That's why I didn't last long working for our County.

I kept telling them, with figures to prove it, how much money and effort they were wasting on pointless meetings.

We had people suspended pending disciplinary enquiries - for months at a time - when there wasn't enough evidence to accuse them, let alone convict.

One of our senior managers, earning far more than I was, had been suspended because it was thought he had claimed expenses for travelling to a meeting he didn't attend because it had been cancelled. Yes he did claim. Yes the meeting was cancelled. But he had to travel further to the meeting than anyone else and was on the way (and out of contact) when they cancelled it. He incurred the expenses legitimately. But no one had dared to ask him because it might prejudice the disciplinary hearing. I asked him. I heard his explanation. I asked for the disciplinary hearing to be cancelled and for him to be reinstated immediately. Even then it took three additional months before the management agreed.

From then on, my career was doomed. (so was his...)

Og

 

[where]

Next time why not volunteer to be one of the victims then reassure yourself how its an isolated incident.

I've been a victim of limeycare my whole life. It saved my brother's and my husband's lives when they were born. It allowed me to have two natural and successful births without the doctors giving me a C-section because they are scared I'll sue them and latterly it has saved my mother's life four times and given her a new knee.

Like I say, not perfect, but it's not, on the whole bad either.

 

[where]

Everyone in America has access to healthcare so your premise is bullshit. Dial 911 and see what happens.

ummm using an emergency service for general healthcare needs isn't terribly efficient, you know.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

As you great mastodons lock horns to defend the indefensible, you ignore the elephant in the room. Both health systems, US and UK, are crap and not fit for purpose.

The UK system is stalinist where the state controls everything for political reasons and patients are told what they can have - no choice. If you privately buy a drug that the Commisariat hasn't approved you are banned from free treatment. US dramatics about 'death panels ' are only somewhat exaggerated. State views on personal lifestyle allow hospitals to refuse live-saving treatment. All medical and non-medical staff, together with bureaucrats, are state employees on scale rates making the UK NHS the biggest employer in Europe. And the whole ball game is grossly inefficient with low productivity.

In the US the picture is totally different with uber-capitalism allowed to run riot without anti-trust protection and driving companies like GM and the airlines into Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Hospitals are run for profit by insurance companies who pare staff and overheads and then clean up by increasing premiums disproportionately. The system ensures that the older and needier you get, the more you have to pay at a time when your disposable income is declining. Pressure by NYSE-quoted insurance companies to avoid independent and community hospitals is intense. And the US spends 17% of GDP on health against half of that in the UK for roughly the same life expectancy outcomes.

Non Anglo-Saxon Western Europe sits back and laughs. Whilst the problems of demographics and demand for new, expensive procedures are putting great strain on the ability to fund healthcare in every country, there is widespread approval of the system of providing healthcare.

Briefly, like the separation of executive - legislative - judicial responsibility, in health terms that is separation of state funding - health provision - mutual insurance. The state negotiates each year how much it is prepared to subsidize any drug and any hospital stay or medical intervention. The providers are private, from lowly general practioner to mighty (not for profit) hospital or clinic. The magic key is the mutual insurance whereby the co-operative (not for profit) insurers factor in the government subsidy and arrive at a flat premium for all members, young or old, sick or poor. This is usually paid by employers or the state, for people on benefits. Works exceedingly well and gives better mortality outcomes than either the US or UK.

Sorry for going on but the ranting was getting silly.

 

[oggbashan]

As you great mastodons lock horns to defend the indefensible, you ignore the elephant in the room. Both health systems, US and UK, are crap and not fit for purpose.

The UK system is stalinist where the state controls everything for political reasons and patients are told what they can have - no choice. If you privately buy a drug that the Commisariat hasn't approved you are banned from free treatment.

...Sorry for going on but the ranting was getting silly.

Sorry. You are incorrect about the UK. We do have significant choice. We can use the NHS at no cost. That is the only option for people on low incomes or with a long-standing medical condition.

We can pay for private treatment either in cash or through health insurance. That health insurance could be commercial or mutual. We can mix and match, using the NHS for some things and private medicine for others. We can go outside the UK for some treatments.

Yes, if you bought and used a drug that wasn't approved you could have been stopped from receiving NHS treatment but that has been changed in the last year. You now can do that but it is wise to tell the NHS doctor so that the NHS treatment doesn't conflict with the private treatment.

I use the NHS. I use, and pay for, private treatment that complements the NHS treatment. I have medical insurance. If I need to claim on that insurance I can. That insurance company has its own hospital but can use any appropriate service.

You can have whatever health cover you want and can pay for. If you can't pay: the NHS is always there for you. One of my past employers also had its own healthcare professionals. Their emphasis was about getting employees back to work and preventing illness/injury but as healthcare professionals their focus was the patient.

The UK has a range of public and private health services to choose from.

Even within the NHS you have choice. You can choose whether to be treated at your local hospital, or the one near where you work, or, if appropriate a hospital that specialises in your condition. I don't think many people will be chosing Stafford Hospital in the near future.

Og

 

[where]

Sorry. You are incorrect about the UK. We do have significant choice. We can use the NHS at no cost. That is the only option for people on low incomes or with a long-standing medical condition.

We can pay for private treatment either in cash or through health insurance. That health insurance could be commercial or mutual. We can mix and match, using the NHS for some things and private medicine for others. We can go outside the UK for some treatments.

Yes, if you bought and used a drug that wasn't approved you could have been stopped from receiving NHS treatment but that has been changed in the last year. You now can do that but it is wise to tell the NHS doctor so that the NHS treatment doesn't conflict with the private treatment.

I use the NHS. I use, and pay for, private treatment that complements the NHS treatment. I have medical insurance. If I need to claim on that insurance I can. That insurance company has its own hospital but can use any appropriate service.

You can have whatever health cover you want and can pay for. If you can't pay: the NHS is always there for you. One of my past employers also had its own healthcare professionals. Their emphasis was about getting employees back to work and preventing illness/injury but as healthcare professionals their focus was the patient.

The UK has a range of public and private health services to choose from.

Even within the NHS you have choice. You can choose whether to be treated at your local hospital, or the one near where you work, or, if appropriate a hospital that specialises in your condition. I don't think many people will be chosing Stafford Hospital in the near future.

Og

thank you. I was getting a bit bewildered as to which UK I was living in for a minute!

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Kybele, you do live with a health system that is the laughing stock in Europe. It is now rare in Europe to have more than 2-person rooms, in the US it is normally single. As I understand in the UK you have 6 to 8 bed dormitories for sick people and you might have a mixed sex ward. Sorry, even Lenin got beyond this.

I'll argue forever how bad the US system is, but you Brits put up with a third world hospital system - and, unbelievably, defend its inadequacies.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OG

I know about ruined careers.

A toddler came to my attention; his testicles were bruised, and he had no other injuries or suspicious marks. It looked to me like a saddle injury; I phoned his baby-sitter and she confirmed it. I called his pediatrician, and he confirmed it; the kid was a climber. But the MD member of the child abuse investigation team said the injury was inflicted.

So I asked him to explain his conclusion, and he said the child was kicked in the nuts. I asked him to show me how you do that...kick a toddlers balls without injuring his legs or penis or ass. All I got was I'M THE EXPERT. This EXPERT killed a kid via a wrong diagnosis, calling pneumonia a cold. Anyway, I took the asshole on and damaged my career. Not because I was wrong but because the guy had home phone numbers for VIPs. But the blood was bad long before that.

I bloodied his nose with a bogus diagnosis he made. He called GENERAL ANXIETY DISORDER, Munchausens By Proxy, and laid a felony medical neglect charge on a young mother. The woman brought the baby to the ER with a respiratory infection and the MD said the kid was healthy. But the kid really did have a respiratory infection. I got the MD fired.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You are a real hero, JBJ. Yes indeed. You need some downtime, but you do good things. Unless you are lying about this like everything else.

 

[where]

Kybele, you do live with a health system that is the laughing stock in Europe. It is now rare in Europe to have more than 2-person rooms, in the US it is normally single. As I understand in the UK you have 6 to 8 bed dormitories for sick people and you might have a mixed sex ward. Sorry, even Lenin got beyond this.

I'll argue forever how bad the US system is, but you Brits put up with a third world hospital system - and, unbelievably, defend its inadequacies.

it's ok, you don't have to ever use it. I'm perfectly happy that if I or any of my loved ones get ill we can get treated without going bankrupt.

people with infectious diseases or open wounds are kept in separate rooms. Though these are sometimes taken by private patients, it's true.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You are a real hero, JBJ. Yes indeed. You need some downtime, but you do good things. Unless you are lying about this like everything else.

I never lie unless the lie involves a woman's looks or cooking. I told you about the blue-berry muffins I ate when I was 16 and in major lust for my geometry tutor.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I never lie unless the lie involves a woman's looks or cooking. I told you about the blue-berry muffins I ate when I was 16 and in major lust for my geometry tutor.

I think you are lying when you say you never lie.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think you are lying when you say you never lie.

Are you serious? My great cross to bear is my basic honesty. I used to walk a mile to return pennies clerks overpaid me. If I think youre a Special Olympics All-Star I tell you.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Are you serious? My great cross to bear is my basic honesty. I used to walk a mile to return pennies clerks overpaid me. If I think youre a Special Olympics All-Star I tell you.

Whew, you are stretching the bounds of my credibility and I believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, the continental divide as well as trickle-down economics.......

But, JBJ, you gotta go wit watcha no.....and u doan no mutch.....

 

[Goldie Munro]

I have tried really hard not to get involved in this discussion - but as you can see I wasn't successful.

You can show any kind of report on social health care V private health care - there are pros and cons for both systems. At the end of the day it does come down to ideology - you are either for social health care or you are not.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you serious? My great cross to bear is my basic honesty. I used to walk a mile to return pennies clerks overpaid me. If I think youre a Special Olympics All-Star I tell you.

You say "You are a special olympics all star," which is a lie every time you say it.

You do not say; "I think you are a special olympics all star," which would be true.

What you think is utterly unimportant, of course, but if you want to be truthful, you need to state your opinions as opinions.

 

[Dragonlipz]

I have tried really hard not to get involved in this discussion - but as you can see I wasn't successful.

You can show any kind of report on social health care V private health care - there are pros and cons for both systems. At the end of the day it does come down to ideology - you are either for social health care or you are not.

I'm all for JBJ getting gender consoling as part of his health care package.......

 

[DeeZire]

Everyone in America has access to healthcare so your premise is bullshit. Dial 911 and see what happens. The issue is folks with healthcare killed by the providers. You love to warble & gargle but its always the wrong tune.

If a woman finds a lump in her breast and calls 911, do you really think they're going to take her to the hospital?

So let's suppose she gets a ride to the hospital. Then what? They might admit her for a checkup and an xray, but they won't treat her cancer. They'll send her home. So then what? If she can't afford chemo, or a mastectomy, she'll either die, or she could take a vow of poverty and become homeless so that two months later she'd qualify for Medicaid. But what if waiting a couple of months changes her prognosis from treatable to terminal? That's the way cancer works, you know.

So once again, you're wrong. And now you're calling yourself honest? Oops, two lies in a row. You're slipping JBJ, although I did like your "warble & gargle" comment. Very creative.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DZ

If your cancer patient goes to your government hospital they'll kill her long before the cancer does. Her only real hope is getting elected to Congress.

ObamaCare promises America the competence of Homeland Security and the efficiency of the Postal Service. That is, patients can count on sitting naked for days, waiting for an examination, while the IRS loots their homes for pawnable stuff.

 

[where]

DZ

If your cancer patient goes to your government hospital they'll kill her long before the cancer does. Her only real hope is getting elected to Congress.

ObamaCare promises America the competence of Homeland Security and the efficiency of the Postal Service. That is, patients can count on sitting naked for days, waiting for an examination, while the IRS loots their homes for pawnable stuff.

actually UK survival rates are about the same as the US for breast cancer although it's hard to do direct comparisons because the best figure for 5 year survival rates in the US is 98% for those cancers caught at early stages via mammograms and mammogram access for women in the US is dependent upon having the correct health coverage. This means that 61% of women with breast cancer have a good 5 year survival rate. In the UK the five year survival rate is 82%, but that is for ALL women being diagnosed at all stages, the figures aren't separated.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Makes you wonder what the survival rates are in the UK now that staff are killing people like Nazi doctors.

 

[where]

Makes you wonder what the survival rates are in the UK now that staff are killing people like Nazi doctors.

you mean like american doctors starved teri shiavo to death?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

you mean like american doctors starved teri shiavo to death?

Judge George Greer starved Teri, and then he had the decency to quit. Food and water isnt medical treatment the doc's said. Had Greer starved the entire facility its plausible that he was acting Brit.

 

[where]

Judge George Greer starved Teri, and then he had the decency to quit. Food and water isnt medical treatment the doc's said. Had Greer starved the entire facility its plausible that he was acting Brit.

oh the doctors were just following orders huh? where have we heard that before?

fancy making a wild guess as to why the US has worse mortality rates than just about every other developed country in the world? Including the UK?

 

[DeeZire]

Makes you wonder what the survival rates are in the UK now that staff are killing people like Nazi doctors.

Let's compare survival rates in the USA, where American healthcare providers are also killing people like Nazi doctors, but with more zeal and efficiency.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php

An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.