"Likable Characters"?

[Devinter]

That's the tragic irony of Literotica as a site/audience as a whole. Most people want a cumrag, they don't want a narrative.

Whilst there is a hint of truth to this, I do tend to find that stories with more complex characters with fleshed out personalities get a significantly higher rating than those that lack it.

The mistake you are making, from my point of view, is that you want your readers to like your villains because you do, but that is not how the world works. You CAN make a character with some truly bad behaviour likable, but surely you must understand that it's much harder to get the reader to feel that way if you start your story with a scene in which - for instance - your character kicks a dog for no reason, versus if they instead petted it? Every time your character takes a messed up action, you have to make up for it if you want them to remain likable to the majority, and certain character types are extremely hard to make likable. (Animal abusers, serial killers, those who take pleasure in torturing others, extremely selfish narcissists, etc.)

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I see likable more as relatable.

Can I, the reader, visualize myself in their situation? Do their struggles make sense to me? Do I care what happens? So, yeah, add a touch of compelling into the mix.

Problem is, the answer is completely subjective. Like you, I like all my characters, even the ones I wrote to be assholes.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

This helps, I believe:

Also, there are plenty of similar articles on internet. Finding them is easy.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Personally, I don't like madelmasoch's characters.
That's just me.

 

[Djmac1031]

@madelinemasoch

Just finished your newest story, Letters To Eliza, the one with the comment I feel inspired this post.

Look, you are absolutely 100% free to write whatever kind of story you wish. I'll support your right to write them 100%.

That said: you can't write a story about two toxic people involved in a toxic relationship and doing toxic, abusive things to each other and then wonder why readers don't "like" your characters.

I wanted to "like" Eliza, to root for her to escape her abusive husband. But then I discover she's been cheating on him. This does not excuse his abuse. But she's abusing him as well.

At the end the two reconcile (at the expense of her cheating again, this time on her new husband) and they express their "love" for each other.

But there has been absolutely no "love" demonstrated in this story, only the toxic desire to control each other.

In this particular instance, this individual story: readers don't like your characters because you give us absolutely no reason to. None. Zero.

And again, if that is the kind of stories you wish to write, more power to you.

But at least understand why readers react the way they do. It's not the readers fault.

 

[Djmac1031]

@madelinemasoch

Just finished your newest story, Letters To Eliza, the one with the comment I feel inspired this post.

Look, you are absolutely 100% free to write whatever kind of story you wish. I'll support your right to write them 100%.

That said: you can't write a story about two toxic people involved in a toxic relationship and doing toxic, abusive things to each other and then wonder why readers don't "like" your characters.

I wanted to "like" Eliza, to root for her to escape her abusive husband. But then I discover she's been cheating on him. This does not excuse his abuse. But she's abusing him as well.

At the end the two reconcile (at the expense of her cheating again, this time on her new husband) and they express their "love" for each other.

But there has been absolutely no "love" demonstrated in this story, only the toxic desire to control each other.

In this particular instance, this individual story: readers don't like your characters because you give us absolutely no reason to. None. Zero.

And again, if that is the kind of stories you wish to write, more power to you.

But at least understand why readers react the way they do. It's not the readers fault.

I also need to add;

If I had read your story before seeing this post, I would have assumed you intentionally set out to write a story designed specifically to make readers hate both your main characters. And I would have applauded your efforts if indeed that was the case, because you did it masterfully.

 

[Sinstories]

@madelinemasoch


That said: you can't write a story about two toxic people involved in a toxic relationship and doing toxic, abusive things to each other and then wonder why readers don't "like" your characters.

I wanted to "like" Eliza, to root for her to escape her abusive husband. But then I discover she's been cheating on him. This does not excuse his abuse. But she's abusing him as well.



But at least understand why readers react the way they do. It's not the readers fault.

On the other hand, you can embrace it. You wrote a story with 2 unlikable characters, good for you. Not every story has to have a hero and a villain. IMO, it's not so much that readers like your characters, it's more important that they have an opinion of your characters. It's OK that readers root against them, as long as they root....and it's OK that they "win" in the end.

My biggest weakness in writing, IMO, is that I don't put enough into the unlikable chars and even the ones I have created, create their drama, get what's coming to them and they live happily ever after.....That's OK sometimes, but I'd really like to write something where the bad guy wins or at least the hero doesn't win in completely black and white terms.

 

[WeShallUnclench]

As others have said, this is a highly individual issue.
Though there are common trends - people often prefer characters who have some relatable vulnerability, common sense and idealism and show kindness to others, in the "right" proportions. I'd say stereotypically the least "likeable" characters is one who is just a 2-dimensional holier-than-thou who always yells at people for not being perfect enough, even if the character is objectively a badass who saves the entire universe.
Exceptions to this are when the character is really just a representation of an ideal - then they can be as preachy and stuck-up as they like, if the whole point for the fans is to say "Well, they are correct, aren't they". They might then even go ahead and load up the whole relatable vulnerable human details through fanfiction.

One fun thing is, at least for me and trashy people like me, that a likeable character must not be a good or a strong character. I adore some characters who are absolute shitshows by any moral ethic, and who I'd never want to meet in real life.

I recently watched a show where arguably my favorite character (one of the villains) is a smug power-hungry xenophobic religious fanatic and, crucially, short-sighted and an absolutely pathetic coward. What made me weirdly adore her was her full display of human weaknesses, which tied in very well with the story and its thesis (as I understand it). It was fun to just keep track of everything wrong she did or said. When she opened her mouth you just knew she'd let out another absolute banger (in one scene a muslim character is just speechless and chuckles incredulously, unable to even be mad). A great deal of what "should" make a character insufferable or even threatening can be made likeable if you can tell the story is cheekily aware of it and playing with it from a position of sound judgment, while also instilling a mix of Schadenfreude and compassion for the fool (whether or not they receive their rightful gruesome comeuppance, as is the case for the character I mentioned).

So yeah, a top tier likeable character archetype for me is someone who I'd - affectionally - call a turd. Not sure how common that sentiment is.

I dunno. One metric for me might be "would it put a smile on my face to see this character sit in a corner and eat a cookie".

Maybe a general aim might be "a character who reminds you of your own humanity". Though again that can be very different depending on who your audience is.

EDIT: The only advice I really have is to write characters who do this for you, and hope others can relate. There is sadly a chance that, just as people easily get popular or unpopular with others, their characters may resonate with a lot of people, or not.

 

[lc69hunter]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

I am primarily a reader, and am a sucker for happy endings, no matter what the genre, including Loving Wives. (This is probably why I do not read much of your work) Unlikeable characters? The woman who is a cruel heartless cunt to her husband. The husband who goes BTB batshit crazy on a cheating wife. Now, if the wife all at once realizes the pain and hurt she is putting her husband through, and redeems herself, and the husband finally realizes that what he is doing to her is far worse than what she did to him, and redeems himself, they become acceptable. Again, because of the nature of you stories, probably not the answer you were looking for.

 

[lc69hunter]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

I am primarily a reader, and am a sucker for happy endings, no matter what the genre, including Loving Wives. (This is probably why I do not read much of your work) Unlikeable characters? The woman who is a cruel heartless cunt to her husband. The husband who goes BTB batshit crazy on a cheating wife. Now, if the wife all at once realizes the pain and hurt she is putting her husband through, and redeems herself, and the husband finally realizes that what he is doing to her is far worse than what she did to him, and redeems himself, they become acceptable. Again, because of the nature of you stories, probably not the answer you were looking for.

 

[WeShallUnclench]

It must not be a dealbreaker, but I know some characters I disliked are those who make choices I cannot relate to.

Not a dealbreaker, because it can be made fun - "lol that's just how they are, the little bugger".

But it becomes really bad when it is part of bad writing - say, stupid choices just to keep the plot going and add extra drama. A character saying something mean and stupid in a gratuitous way that just creates asinine extra conflict, when they could have just as easily said something nice, polite, or shut their mouth. Especially when said character is supposedly the protagonist.

Timing can be key, here - when your reader is ready for a conflict resolution or an emotional moment, that's a bad moment for a rude fuckup.

Maybe you could compare it to sitting in a car with a shitty driver - they could almost kill you, but if it is an adventure and makes you laugh even as you stew in anger (or pee yourself), you come out feeling better than someone who just annoys you.

 

[HordHolm]

We write protagonists and antagonists (if we are writing something more than a single scene stroker). Our protagonists need to be likeable to readers - they are viewing events through the POV of the protagonist and thus need to be characters the readers like. The antagonist(s), however, can be something a little different. A good, evil antagonist can be hated, and yet be entirely perfect for the story - think Joffrey in Game of Thrones: utterly detestable, yet perfect for the story. Would the story have worked so well if Joffrey was 'likeable'? Or the antagonist can be much more likeable, such as Alan Rickman's Sheriff of Nottingham. Either can work, provided they are well-crafted and right for the context.

 

[Djmac1031]

We write protagonists and antagonists (if we are writing something more than a single scene stroker). Our protagonists need to be likeable to readers - they are viewing events through the POV of the protagonist and thus need to be characters the readers like. The antagonist(s), however, can be something a little different. A good, evil antagonist can be hated, and yet be entirely perfect for the story - think Joffrey in Game of Thrones: utterly detestable, yet perfect for the story. Would the story have worked so well if Joffrey was 'likeable'? Or the antagonist can be much more likeable, such as Alan Rickman's Sheriff of Nottingham. Either can work, provided they are well-crafted and right for the context.

Agreed.

We can also write morally ambiguous characters, good people who make bad choices, "Bad" characters who act based on what they feel is "morally correct" and can even make a compelling argument for it; think Thanos, or Tyler Durden in Fight Club.

And people being people, we'll argue about exactly those kinds of characters. Are they "right?" Are they "wrong?" Were they "right" but went too far? Etc etc.

Those can be some of the most compelling characters in fiction. The "Anti Hero."

Shitty people doing shitty things to each other for shitty reasons isn't compelling story telling to me.

 

[Sinstories]

Our protagonists need to be likeable to readers - they are viewing events through the POV of the protagonist and thus need to be characters the readers like.

I want to disagree with that, and I guess I do in theory, but I can't think of an example where that isn't true. Maybe the movie Scicario, but it's a bit different in that it intentionally hides who the real protagonist is and until the very end, the real protagonist is unlikable until the very end.

It would definitely be hard to do.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I love @Djmac1031 ’s Vengeance Demon, Cozbi. So much so, he let me write her into my latest story (with two other of his characters). She’s an anti-hero big-time, but super fun to read and write.

The main point here is that there is no homogeneous audience. There are different people with different tastes and different things they don’t like or view as immoral.

You can’t write to a general audience, because it’s chimera.

Emily

 

[WeShallUnclench]

Another angle, though perhaps a marginal perspective:

Especially with "bad" characters, how likeable they are might depend on how the masochism of the audience works.

For instance - one thing I could never personally relate to - is a group of women who are gushing over vile men characters, even or especially if those mistreat women. Very often, this is done with a firm awareness and condemnation of how bad the character is, but they still decide he is a lovely train wreck to watch.

There might be some "we love to hate him" at play, but that doesn't cover all of it.

So my hypothesis is, there is a phenomenon of people who accept wretched characters acting in non-relatable ways, provided the character is the type of creature they love projecting their own (secret) masochist fantasies on. In that scenario, what would otherwise be considered "breaking" the character can be accepted or even celebrated. Then the character can be a monster or a creep because that's specifically what turns your audience on.

 

[lc69hunter]

You also write, for the most part, in the IR porn trope subgenre. That is for a very specific audience of readers, and you have obviously found them. Their opinions on what constitutes an unlikeable character may be quite different.

 

[AG31]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

One thing I've learned over the three years I've been publishing is that readers vary. They vary a lot! Whether or not they like my characters is one area. To a small degree I've gotten hints that let me clarify my characters, so they're not disliked through misunderstanding. But then you get to the real life fact that some people like one kind of person and other people like a different kind of person. My suggestion is to write for like-minded people.

 

[AG31]

...I'm sorry, but, are you fucking with me right now? I don't understand what you mean right now.

Can't read her mind, of course, but I think she's telling you that readers are as varied as real life people.
@EmilyMiller

 

[AG31]

I "think" readers would call someone who is honest and open, a likable character. Someone who isn't looking to take advantage of a person they have power over.

A good writer can make almost any kind of person "likeable." The reader ends up wondering how they can like someone who's objectively so unlikeable. But that's really good writing. In general, real people just like different kinds of real people.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Can't read her mind, of course, but I think she's telling you that readers are as varied as real life people.
@EmilyMiller

What she said

 

[AG31]

I can't speak for Lit readers in general - I barely count as one myself. But for my money likability comes more from grounding detail and markers of personality than it does from some moral accounting of what the characters do or say

Yes!

 

[AG31]

@madelinemasoch

Just finished your newest story, Letters To Eliza, the one with the comment I feel inspired this post.


But at least understand why readers react the way they do. It's not the readers fault.

Well, of course it's the readers' fault. They're the ones who bring to the story their notion of what is and isn't likeable in another person. I can imagine liking a lot of people that you don't like.

 

[Superfungurl]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

I am probably going to give you a frustratingly vague answer, because my training and experience have led me to never give "the answer". I try VERY hard, NOT to tell people what to think but rather just give MY opinion and the evidence both for and against it (recognizing my opinions are biased as are everyone's and so evidence must exist both for my opinion...and against my opinion). OK...as a student of psychology in the most formal of senses, what is "likeable" in the minds of a person who would be even going to a site like Literotica? Probably not prudish when it comes to sexuality, that's fairly certain...but then the site (as it should) has MANY categories...I've written two stories and I get lots of fans, people saying my stories are "hot" BUT...I know for a fact that there are people on this site who would NEVER even read my stories, who never would even click on the category of my stories...because they just aren't into not only my storyline but the entire type of sexuality I write about. Now...if people are reading your stories and finding characters "not likeable" now you must consider ok, they opened my story, so they looked at the title, etc. and at least thought "maybe"...so there's a disconnect between your creation of these characters and the readers. By the way, I'm a scientist so I say things like this very dispassionately. Most people don't realize the essence of science, which is to take something you believe and do your best effort to disprove it! It is counter-intuitive but actually logically necessary and I could explain with a very simple thought experiment but I won't because you're probably thinking...science? WTF does this...? Anyway. I'm just saying I'm not saying anything about your writing and honestly I just saw the question and I've not read your stuff...yet.

OK, so...I won't tell you to do A, B, C...with your characters. What I can suggest is...think about the mindset of a person who would be interested enough in your story title (because that's what people see...) and the what, one sentence synopsis that is provided...to read your stuff! And though I imagine people probably don't take the time to give you much insight into what they found unlikeable, maybe you can gather other clues. I can do this...I can read some of your stuff and I will see if and what I might find "unlikeable" and try and give maybe more complete feedback than others might. That's my input. Oh, and...for the record, I've read stories on this site that were to ME so good I've copied them so I have them on my personal computer...AND...I've read comments on those very stories just slamming them! So...do not think that just because some people may not like what you write, that it is objectively "bad". What people like us that create things never hear is the many people who enjoyed your work. Some people comment positively or rate the story highly, but...most of the time people who enjoyed it just...enjoy it and leave no vote, no feedback...that's just life.

 

[AG31]

One thing I've learned over the three years I've been publishing is that readers vary. They vary a lot! Whether or not they like my characters is one area. To a small degree I've gotten hints that let me clarify my characters, so they're not disliked through misunderstanding (e.g., I added details to clarify that my MC was not arrogant). But then you get to the real life fact that some people like one kind of person and other people like a different kind of person. My suggestion is to write for like-minded people.

I don't know why this post showed up. Me replying to me....