"Likable Characters"?

[madelinemasoch]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’d say not likable is short hand for… your characters don’t adhere to my preconceptions about what they should be like…

Your FMC is too slutty

Your MMC is not dominant enough

Your FMC cheated on her husband when all he did was beat her a little bit, what’s up with that shit?

Emily

 

[Oldermom935]

If they don't like your characters. Then don't read the story. Don't insult the writers

 

[Oldermom935]

If they don't like your characters. Then don't read the story. Don't insult the wr

 

[Oldermom935]

I’d say not likable is short hand for… your characters don’t adhere to my preconceptions about what they should be like…

Your FMC is too slutty

Your MMC is not dominant enough

Your FMC cheated on her husband when all he did was beat her a little bit, what’s up with that shit?

Emily

Beat her a little? Here let me do you.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I’d say not likable is short hand for… your characters don’t adhere to my preconceptions about what they should be like…

Your FMC is too slutty

Your MMC is not dominant enough

Your FMC cheated on her husband when all he did was beat her a little bit, what’s up with that shit?

Emily

...I'm sorry, but, are you fucking with me right now? I don't understand what you mean right now.

 

[Oldermom935]

Emily open the door and talk to the nice men in the white coats hun
Cause your bat shit crazy...

 

[madelinemasoch]

Emily open the door and talk to the nice men in the white coats hun
Cause your bat shit crazy...

I hate this casual trolling, to be honest with you. I'm not trying to ad hominem you or kinkshame, I'm just saying, I'm here to look for actual advice.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Beat her a little? Here let me do you.

Um… we may be talking at cross purposes. Not entirely sure.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

I hate this casual trolling, to be honest with you. I'm not trying to ad hominem you or kinkshame, I'm just saying, I'm here to look for actual advice.

Me?

I’m not trolling. I am confused though.

My point. Is that unlikable is not some absolute. Readers bring their own world view to what they read. I’ve been called deviant (me, not my characters) for posting about a lesbian marriage in LW.

When someone says your character is unlikable, they are saying “I don’t like how they behave, or what they think.”

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

...I'm sorry, but, are you fucking with me right now?

Nope.

I don't understand what you mean right now.

I explain

 

[pink_silk_glove]

What do Lit readers think a "likable character" is? By which I mean, which qualities and traits do readers on this website register as likable? I don't really understand what they mean by that, because I like my own characters, a lot. Especially those which I am attracted to. I have a feeling there's a difference in personal investment here, between me and the readers who've told me that my characters aren't likable.

This all depends on the type of reader.

People who complain about unlikable characters usually just mean that they're upset that the characters' morals don't meet their own. To them, either everyone has to be good, or there has to be a clear good hero and a clear bad villain and the villain has to lose. There is nothing that you can do to please these readers other than to pander to them, but then everyone has their own set of morals and their own definition of good and bad, so have fun with that.

Then there are (for lack of a better term) 'serious' readers. These are readers who actually enjoy reading, the telling of tales, characters with depth and motives that drive and twist plot. These people tend to enjoy unlikable characters because they add tension and conflict into the story. They work well mixed in with good guys or even when just a bunch of antiheroes are thrown together. If your story has all good people, then you won't have any tension and your story can still be good, but it will be much harder to pull off as you'll need much more skill and style to keep it interesting. Although you can still score very well with a cast of all goodie-goodies if you write a guilt-free kinky plotless stroker. They're usually not good stories but they are extremely popular.

 

[Rob_Royale]

What is likable to the writer and reader are two different subjects. I'm sure Thomas Harris thinks Hannibal Lecter is a likable character, but he's not one I'd invite to a party.

I "think" readers would call someone who is honest and open, a likable character. Someone who isn't looking to take advantage of a person they have power over.

 

[vagrantx]

The replies here are...confusing.

To stay on topic; it differs a ton depending on genre and readerbase. My most liked character is a sadist. She kidnaps people. I write noncon.

I don't think you'll be able to reach a consensus, but, who's your audience? Who are you writing the characters for?

 

[EmilyMiller]

What is likable to the writer and reader are two different subjects. I'm sure Thomas Harris thinks Hannibal Lecter is a likable character, but he's not one I'd invite to a party.

I "think" readers would call someone who is honest and open, a likable character. Someone who isn't looking to take advantage of a person they have power over.

Depends on the category. I’d agree with you on “normal” ones.

 

[StillStunned]

I think likeable story characters are determined by their actions towards the POV character/narrator . Readers respond to a female character who's bright and cheerful, a bit flirty, clever and strong-willed - but only if she's flirty with the POV character. Someone who's gloomy but makes funny, sarcastic comments is likeable as long as they direct their sarcasm mostly towards others instead of the POV character.

Essentially, readers like a character who's on "their" side.

 

[countdowntolov3]

I figured there was probably a comment that prompted this question, so I checked out the comments on your recent stories. Pretty sure I found the comment From what I've seen of the Loving Wives category, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors putting stock in the comments you get there.

You probably shouldn't put much stock in my commenting here either. But just like that Loving Wives commentor, I'll spew my dribble anyway...
I don't think likableness is a collection of traits. Especially not in fiction. We judge ourselves by our intentions, but others by their actions. I find that I resonate with a fictional character when I can see their vulnerable and pure intentions, even if their actions are ugly.

Edit: Also. Pretty sure this is hard. Likable characters can carry a story, even if the plot is a mess. If there was a knob for likeableness, well, we'd all just turn that thing up to 11 and call it a day.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Emily open the door and talk to the nice men in the white coats hun
Cause your bat shit crazy...

I used to have a nice white coat. Of course it got stained with all sorts of gunk.

Emily

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think "likeable" in this context usually means somebody the reader can cheer for.

Doesn't entirely overlap with "good". Hannibal Lecter is just as much a murderous psychopath as Multiple Miggs, but Lecter is likeable in a way that Miggs is not. That's achieved partly by giving him a few good traits (he appreciates the arts, he disdains rudeness, he's willing to help Starling even if it's for his own ends) and partly by giving him things that most readers would aspire to (he's smart, he's resourceful, he has a kind of personal dignity and power even as a prisoner).

And most of his worst crimes are discussed only in summary rather than detailed description, which reduces their impact on the audience. If we were getting the story from the perspective of the nurse he mutilated, he'd probably be less likeable.

 

[madelinemasoch]

They're usually not good stories but they are extremely popular.

That's the tragic irony of Literotica as a site/audience as a whole. Most people want a cumrag, they don't want a narrative.

Then there are (for lack of a better term) 'serious' readers. These are readers who actually enjoy reading, the telling of tales, characters with depth and motives that drive and twist plot.

This is the kind of story that I strive to write, and the kind of reader that I strive to attract.

hey work well mixed in with good guys or even when just a bunch of antiheroes are thrown together. If your story has all good people, then you won't have any tension and your story can still be good,

What I mean to ask is, what do Lit readers think of as good and bad? I disagree with your perspective on morality, I think it's beyond subjective, it's historical, it's more of a value system than some kind of inherent trait of good and bad within any individual person or character (provided we're striving for realness, that is) and I'm just trying to decipher what makes more discerning Lit readers than the strokers consider certain characters as likable.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I think likeable story characters are determined by their actions towards the POV character/narrator . Readers respond to a female character who's bright and cheerful, a bit flirty, clever and strong-willed - but only if she's flirty with the POV character. Someone who's gloomy but makes funny, sarcastic comments is likeable as long as they direct their sarcasm mostly towards others instead of the POV character.

Essentially, readers like a character who's on "their" side.

I write primarily female main characters now. The female main character is the point of view character, from a third-person style. However, you basically described Ella from Creampie Cleanup in your little descriptor. The problem with your comment is that she is the POV character in that story, not some man.

 

[StillStunned]

I write primarily female main characters now. The female main character is the point of view character, from a third-person style. However, you basically described Ella from Creampie Cleanup in your little descriptor. The problem with your comment is that she is the POV character in that story, not some man.

I'm not sure I was implying that the POV character had to be "some man".

But my point stands, even where the type of character I mentioned is the POV character. The reader needs to feel that he or she is on *their* side. If the POV character is smart and flirty, the reader needs to identify with that smartness and flirtiness. If the POV is dark and snarky, the reader needs to identify with that. They have to agree with who becomes the target of the flirting or snark.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I figured there was probably a comment that prompted this question, so I checked out the comments on your recent stories. Pretty sure I found the comment From what I've seen of the Loving Wives category, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors putting stock in the comments you get there.

You probably shouldn't put much stock in my commenting here either.

My inner strength has failed me, and I need help. I want to know what these readers think, something deeper than NoTalentHack's essay can explain is being revealed here. That's not an attack; he's a good writer. The Last Snowfall proves that.

I find that I resonate with a fictional character when I can see their vulnerable and pure intentions, even if their actions are ugly.

Then why don't they resonate with Eliza? She's quite clearly a woman who's vulnerable, even though she's strong.

Edit: Also. Pretty sure this is hard. Likable characters can carry a story, even if the plot is a mess. If there was a knob for likeableness, well, we'd all just turn that thing up to 11 and call it a day.

I agree with you, it's not that easy. Also, are you trying to say my plots are a mess? I think the style is a bit arcane, but that doesn't retain to the plot.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Bottom line, there is no ISO definition of likability. Make your characters likable to one cohort and another cohort will hate them.

Emily

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'm not sure I was implying that the POV character had to be "some man".

But my point stands, even where the type of character I mentioned is the POV character. The reader needs to feel that he or she is on *their* side. If the POV character is smart and flirty, the reader needs to identify with that smartness and flirtiness. If the POV is dark and snarky, the reader needs to identify with that. They have to agree with who becomes the target of the flirting or snark.

My further question from here would be, how do we get (compel) the reader to identify with that?