Lets try something postive

[mikey2much]

I have always fended for myself and my family

No...I own the responsibility of not only myself, but that of my family, until such time as they become adults and responsible for themselves.

As for the common defense, I do take exception to the true libertarian view on that...so call me a rational libertarian. As for my neighbor...well if he can't provide for his children, then I will. But as for him, he'll have to fend for himself, just as I do.

We are approaching a crossroads in history where the jobs are being done by machines, this is a fact and it is happening now. Where to you figure the people are going to find the jobs they will need to support their families?

We need to get pass this feeling that taking from the government is wrong, it soon will be the only way for a lot of people to survive. What we need to do is manage the money we are spending now better. Industy has paid lobbyist working the system for them. The military has a free pass on money, they get what they want and in many cases nobody even knows how much that is. The only people who are not repersented at the table is the working man. Used to they had unions and the ones without unions had the threat of becoming union if things got too bad.

Now after the terms in office of Reagan and Bush who took up where Nixon had left off with China. They got the things moving and we have slid a long way down that slippery slope toward becoming a third world type of country. Clinton while he seemed to be liberal really was republican lite because he worked with them to pass NAFTA. And then we really crashed and burned with baby bush. We finally got rid of him and after only two years america sends the clown in the house to freeze up the system until they hope they can get their man back in office and finish the job.

The job is to lower american expectations for the workers and bring them under control, I feel pretty sure about all this but I have to admit I don't
know where they go from there.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

We are approaching a crossroads in history where the jobs are being done by machines, this is a fact and it is happening now. Where to you figure the people are going to find the jobs they will need to support their families?

We need to get pass this feeling that taking from the government is wrong, it soon will be the only way for a lot of people to survive. What we need to do is manage the money we are spending now better. Industy has paid lobbyist working the system for them. The military has a free pass on money, they get what they want and in many cases nobody even knows how much that is. The only people who are not repersented at the table is the working man. Used to they had unions and the ones without unions had the threat of becoming union if things got too bad.

Now after the terms in office of Reagan and Bush who took up where Nixon had left off with China. They got the things moving and we have slid a long way down that slippery slope toward becoming a third world type of country. Clinton while he seemed to be liberal really was republican lite because he worked with them to pass NAFTA. And then we really crashed and burned with baby bush. We finally got rid of him and after only two years america sends the clown in the house to freeze up the system until they hope they can get their man back in office and finish the job.

The job is to lower american expectations for the workers and bring them under control, I feel pretty sure about all this but I have to admit I don't
know where they go from there.

The is no such thing as taking from the government! If you get a hand out from the government then that hand out comes from me, it is taken from my pocket and put in yours without my permission.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The is no such thing as taking from the government! If you get a hand out from the government then that hand out comes from me, it is taken from my pocket and put in yours without my permission.

Well, I give permission for my tax dollars to be used that way. I don't give permission for my money to be used in mideastern wars, so you can cover that part instead.

Fair enough?

 

[mikey2much]

Stella beat me to it

The is no such thing as taking from the government! If you get a hand out from the government then that hand out comes from me, it is taken from my pocket and put in yours without my permission.

I don't want it to come from your pocket or mine, it already is coming from our pockets. The issue isn't where its coming from but rather where it is going to.

 

[R. Richard]

You have to understand that I have felt like a Jew in nazi Germany ever since Nixon started his war on drugs. However when you work in America you have to pay SS no matter how little you earn, and some times I made enough that I couldn't lie about, so I was forced to pay taxes that I never applied for my tax refund for.

But that is beside the point, more to the point is why you would be so against your fellow Americans having government healthcare. At one time we were the only industial country who did not provide this for their citizens. I think it shows how little regard our government has for us.

I grew up in the streets of the South Cental. I never used drugs and, in fact, fought my own war on drugs, mainly by ripping off street dealers. I was sometimes forced to go to school, by the scumbags, but it was a waste of my time. Instead of receiving the 'free education' that was 'offered' to me, I stole books from the library (I always returned them, in good condition) and learned enough to make a living. The government that you revile furnished me with almost nothing. I made my own way and rid the streets of any number of punks who the scumbags seemed unable to deal with.
You wanted to live free. You paid very few taxes and then, when the government wanted you to pay a little toward your own heathcare, you managed to avoid that. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
Let me guess, you bought unknown shit from street dealers and injected or snorted the unknown shit into your system. The unknown shit is probably a major cause of your heath problems. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
I want a doctor (Yeah, one of those trained, skilled rich guys) to make decisions about my healthcare and not some government bureaucrat. I pay for my health insurance and I pay my doctor. Now, you also want me to pay for those who didn't pay. Take what you want, but pay for what you take.
I believe that you asked about caring for neighbor's children. I pay taxes to support local government organizations that provide for children whose parent don't provide for them. I also donate to local religious organizations (with whose beliefs I disagree) because they feed hungry children. (I was a hungry child, who had to shoplift food to survive.)
Now, you want me to provide healthcare to adults who didn't want to provide healthcare for themselves. Let the adults go to the free public schools that I pay for, instead. The government mandated public schools teach all knowledge, obviously incuding the knowledge of how to self heal. There's your government heathcare.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I grew up in the streets of the South Cental. I never used drugs and, in fact, fought my own war on drugs, mainly by ripping off street dealers. I was sometimes forced to go to school, by the scumbags, but it was a waste of my time. Instead of receiving the 'free education' that was 'offered' to me, I stole books from the library (I always returned them, in good condition) and learned enough to make a living. The government that you revile furnished me with almost nothing. I made my own way and rid the streets of any number of punks who the scumbags seemed unable to deal with.
You wanted to live free. You paid very few taxes and then, when the government wanted you to pay a little toward your own heathcare, you managed to avoid that. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
Let me guess, you bought unknown shit from street dealers and injected or snorted the unknown shit into your system. The unknown shit is probably a major cause of your heath problems. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
I want a doctor (Yeah, one of those trained, skilled rich guys) to make decisions about my healthcare and not some government bureaucrat. I pay for my health insurance and I pay my doctor. Now, you also want me to pay for those who didn't pay. Take what you want, but pay for what you take.
I believe that you asked about caring for neighbor's children. I pay taxes to support local government organizations that provide for children whose parent don't provide for them. I also donate to local religious organizations (with whose beliefs I disagree) because they feed hungry children. (I was a hungry child, who had to shoplift food to survive.)
Now, you want me to provide healthcare to adults who didn't want to provide healthcare for themselves. Let the adults go to the free public schools that I pay for, instead. The government mandated public schools teach all knowledge, obviously incuding the knowledge of how to self heal. There's your government heathcare.

Thank you for sharing that, RR.

Now take your Thorazine like a good boy and then shuffle on back to the Day Room with the rest of the Libertarians, K?

 

[mikey2much]

If bullahit had value, you would be rich

I grew up in the streets of the South Cental. I never used drugs and, in fact, fought my own war on drugs, mainly by ripping off street dealers. I was sometimes forced to go to school, by the scumbags, but it was a waste of my time. Instead of receiving the 'free education' that was 'offered' to me, I stole books from the library (I always returned them, in good condition) and learned enough to make a living. The government that you revile furnished me with almost nothing. I made my own way and rid the streets of any number of punks who the scumbags seemed unable to deal with.
You wanted to live free. You paid very few taxes and then, when the government wanted you to pay a little toward your own heathcare, you managed to avoid that. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
Let me guess, you bought unknown shit from street dealers and injected or snorted the unknown shit into your system. The unknown shit is probably a major cause of your heath problems. Now you want the taxpayers to pay for your healthcare.
I want a doctor (Yeah, one of those trained, skilled rich guys) to make decisions about my healthcare and not some government bureaucrat. I pay for my health insurance and I pay my doctor. Now, you also want me to pay for those who didn't pay. Take what you want, but pay for what you take.
I believe that you asked about caring for neighbor's children. I pay taxes to support local government organizations that provide for children whose parent don't provide for them. I also donate to local religious organizations (with whose beliefs I disagree) because they feed hungry children. (I was a hungry child, who had to shoplift food to survive.)
Now, you want me to provide healthcare to adults who didn't want to provide healthcare for themselves. Let the adults go to the free public schools that I pay for, instead. The government mandated public schools teach all knowledge, obviously incuding the knowledge of how to self heal. There's your government heathcare.

You are indeed one stupid asshole, I don't have any health problems, and I damn sure don't want anything from you. BTW bullshit has no value. Its just bullshit. So take your all- american bullshit and shove it up that tight right wing ass of yours. Don't bother replying to this because you are on ignore. I will not tolerate your shit dripping into anymore of my conversations. Fuck you.

 

[mikey2much]

Wow! that wasn't very postive at all

I just lost it for a moment, but I am better now. I have a strong reaction to stupid right wing shit like he was spraying. If I wanted to hear that I could go right to the source where he got his opinions, Fox news.

But back to what we were talking about, In another thread the subject of the draft came up. I think that we were a better country when we had it than we are without it. I didn't use to feel that way but I didn't see the results of having an army that is seperate and removed from most other americans.

Before you nail me on that let me explain what I mean. I am talking about living as a soldiers like the police are now. Nobody wants to live next to a cop, and nobody wants to trust a cop, I mean who would want a cop for a friend? Only another cop. so they tend to group together and provide the friendships they need with other cops. Soldiers do that too and it puts a barrier between them and us.

So when some CIA guy asked them to strip the prisoners and degrade them to soften them up for their queationing. They did not hesitate, they are more soldiers more than citizens, hell they don't have as many rights as the average citizen so I guess it would seem reasonable to them to think that the same rules don't apply to them.

What do you think about this issue, should there be a return to a draft, where everybody had to give three years to military or other jobs that serve the country. This would be a paid job but it would be required.

 

[sr71plt]

What do you think about this issue, should there be a return to a draft, where everybody had to give three years to military or other jobs that serve the country. This would be a paid job but it would be required.

Perhaps if the United States was better at picking and planning the wars it fights.

 

[Stella_Omega]

But back to what we were talking about, In another thread the subject of the draft came up. I think that we were a better country when we had it than we are without it. I didn't use to feel that way but I didn't see the results of having an army that is seperate and removed from most other americans.

It's probably sheer coincidence that we also had a citizenry that trusted the government to not dump us into unjust and illegal wars.

 

[mikey2much]

If the voters know they may be doing the fighting

Yeah I don't think we should ever go to war without a declaration of war.

If we don't have enough support from the people to pass the test of getting the conress to vote on the declaration than we shouldn't put american at risk.