Let's talk about SSC

[Marquis]

Perhaps inspired by the tireless and meticulous defining of terms that comprises a great deal of my scholastic activities, I would like to take a precise look at what I think SSC should mean.

I think most of us have heard the acronym "SSC" used before, and most of us know it stands for Safe, Sane and Consensual (not Consentual, goddamnit, people PLEASE). But what does it actually mean? What behavior does this standard allow and prohibit?

I'll break it down by term:


1. Safe

I think safety needs to be looked at from the perspective of risk. A safe act to me is one in which there is rather little, or a reasonable room for error in achieving the intended result. Obviously the probability of the unintended consequence has to be weighed against the severity of the unintended consequence.

For example, when playing with single-tails, there is a decent risk you will snap the whip at the wrong moment and cut your partner. I find this a mostly acceptable risk because cutting your partner, while it should be avoided (unless desired), really isn't ALL that serious. Nothing a bandage, some neosporin and an apology won't cure, under most circumstances.

On the other hand, there is breath play. Usually not too unsafe, and for many people this is a daily ingredient in their play. However, there is a remote possibility that it could go too far, and if so, the consequences could be very serious. All in all, I think breath play can still be counted as a safe activity because of how low the risk is, particularly if you are careful and pay attention.

Now, leaving your sub naked by the side of the road and expecting her to hitchhike home might be an erotic thrill for you and her, but I can't call it safe. The risk she is being exposed to is both too high and too severe.


2. Sane

Sanity refers to being rational, having good judgment and being in touch with reality. Understanding the consequences of your actions is imperative to getting a positive experience out of BDSM. I'm getting tired, so I'm going to forego the lengthy examples until tomorrow (unless someone else cares to provide them for me), but I think we can all say there are quite a few people out there in the BDSM world who do not have a sane view of what BDSM is all about.

People seek to live out these elaborate fantasies that truly cannot be sustained over time, often without having any real idea who their partner is. People engage in behaviors where they are aware of the risk, where they fully consent to being in these positions, but where their actions lose all touch with every priority in their life and everything it takes to make a person happy.

This is obviously a rather subjective condition, but I do think there are lines you can draw on the sanity of a particular act or relationship.


3. Consensual

For an act to be consensual, there needs to be freely given and continuous permission for the act to occur. For a person to give consent, they must be able to give consent. They have to have full knowledge of the situation they are in, and the power to change their mind at any time.

If you ask your sub if you can lock her in a box and she says yes, crawls in and finds a snake in it with her, the act becomes non-consensual. She may have consented to being locked in a box, but she did not consent to being locked in a box with a snake. This is where having a safeword helps a lot.

Even still, I assert that it's not consensual unless your sub will use her safeword. If rape law teaches us nothing, it should teach us that consent is not the default. If someone can't say no, that isn't the same as them saying yes. There are a lot of submissives with low self-esteem or abusive pasts that will go along with anything. How deep you want to take this issue is up to you, but I require the highest level of consent from my little ones before I consider taking any level of control

 

[rosco rathbone]

1-800-MAR-GUIS "when a night in jail for the bruises on her legs isn't an option"


BDSM lawyer, bro. Goldmine.

 

[Killishandra]

You're going to make a kick-ass lawyer/model, Marquis.

 

[shy slave]

I need time to think seriously about all marquis has posted and it may be a while before that happens.

Not to hijack the thread but as an aside..

The snake in the box thing...

I have had vanilla men and Doms who turned out to be snakes, sadly they would never get into a box and let me tape the lid down

 

[tealsphynx]

Hmm..brain isn't functioning enough to read and reply at this point in time, but the topic seems to be intrigueing (good god, please don't ask me to spell it correctly at this point in time). In a few hours and some strong coffee later I'd like to read further into this one Marquis. I always enjoy conversatoins with you and maybe we could get on e going

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I think most of us have heard the acronym "SSC" used before, and most of us know it stands for Safe, Sane and Consensual (not Consentual, goddamnit, people PLEASE). But what does it actually mean? What behavior does this standard allow and prohibit?

You, Marquise are wise beyond your years. The amount of thought you have put into this missive evidences your experience and compassion. Your "...little one's..." are fortunate that you take your art so seriously. Long live BDSM!

 

[His_pita]

I just want to say that's a great post that explains SSC very well in my opinion.

 

[Netzach]

I've always defined it as whatever will not put you in the hospital, in the nuthouse, and what you agree on.

 

[pandoravampire]

A issue that i am very intune to, is the consentual part.
CONSENT/consensual
So many submissives write a thread that poses a question such as: my D is having unprotected penetrative sex with other subs, is this OK?

These sorts of threads make me wonder the following....

Does this submissive have sufficient information to make a INFORMED consent to her D/s relationship?

Consent can only be given legally, if the person has a) the info required to make a decision informedly and b) has the capacity to do so.

Many things can affect the 'informed consent' stance. Newness, being manipulated, being uneducated, having no barometer of what is and what is not bdsm.

In order to be deemed having the capacity to make this informed choice, i often wonder how submissives stand.
D: "you have your safeword, you can use this whenever you wish" does not encompass the motivational need to submit within the submissive. The need to please is a considerable variable in his/her capacity to consent surely?

Not sure where im going with these thoughts, but happily aware that i am making fully informed decisions when not in subspace. Once there, i do not have the capacity for rational cognitive functioning - i simply cannot think clearly.

I could for instance agrue diminished responsibility, or lack of capacity, whilst in subspace and a altered conscious level.
As a person, i do have a responsibility to myself, and whom im playing with to reflect on a play session, and raise any concerns i have about the form play took once outside of that session. This forms the basis for good negotiation for us.

Included in my fantasies are areas the i only wish to fantasise about, i do not wish to enact them - shit, some of them arent legal lol. But once in that state of bliss, that we seek repeatedly as submissives, i'll agree to anything to stay there!

This is where the trust of the dominant comes into play. It takes me- at least, a considerable length in time, to be sure, that i will be toyed with, teased, pushed and limits extended, yet be safe in the knowledge that my 'altered state' will not be taken advantage of to a abusive non consentual level.

Safe:
I totally disagree that breath play is safe by the way, and to sight the small amount of time this technique is practiced for as a reason why its safe is ludicrous! Hearts stop in seconds. Thats not to say im not one of its huge fans
It is the responsibility of all paties to ensure that the type of play is as safe as you can render it. Attempting to achieve ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF RISK. Harm minimalisation stuff.

Sane: This ones a bit dodgy too isn't it?
If play is going well, the submissive is lost in space, is she sane? Nope. Well hopefully not lol. And the D who has control? Carried away by desire, or the power flowing between the couple. I know that my D has gone into some sort of top space whilst we are playing, is he then in control at the very moment? i doubted it, but it was awesome to behold.

And what about those of us who seek to play on the edge? I think SSC is a very grey subjective stance. Ofen pulled at by basic instincts of lust, desire, altered states of consciousness that can occur in play.

But as a basic premise for staying alive and unhurt , its not a bad one.
But anyone who's ever been in love, can you truly say you were sane?
anyone who's deeply submissive-do you truly have as much choice as the assertive person does? I would suggest not.

just my 'got back from a run' and too much coffee thoughts for the day.

 

[graceanne]

I read somewhere, and I forget where, that a lot of people aren't that much into SSC, but more into RAK (risk aware kink). As in, no breath play isn't that safe - but I'm aware of the risk, and I'm willing to take them.

 

[Xelebes]

Refrain:

Let's talk about Es-es-see
Let's talk about you and me
Let's talk about wonderful
Things You did to me

Verse 1:

Remember, being safe is the way to be
Cuz you don't want her be dead, y'see
Even if that night was full of extacy
'Las you don't want the police
At your door, you on your knees
This is not some Combichrist mel'dies

Backup: Whoooh!

You want it dirty
You want it hard
Jus' remember keep it safe
No damage, no injury
That'll last too long
Don't go too far on th' orgasm'c wave
You don't know how far you want to go
You don't know hard you'll the next blow
just remember keep it real,
And don't go where you don't know

Backup: Yeahhhh!

<Refrain>

Verse 2

Now don't flip your lid, this all makes sense
This all works out in past present and future tense
Jus' realise what is dreams and fantasy, hence
You better-'etter not confuse what can be real
Cause you don't want to flip off the lid n' peal
Off the maniacal laughter
Cuz les' see the truth
You are no fricken evil clown.
Unless you are of that kink
Cuz then it is all cool
Cuz it is ok to be a clown.

Backup: Whatevah!

<Refrain>

Verse 3

Trust is a big issue in the scene
Cuz everybody is not made of plastisine
I don't know how that wors but it works for me

Backup: Hoooh!

Consent is the issue we want to focus here
I mean, what else did you think I was talking of here
Cuz les be honest, rape is not cool
Unless she says that play is good for th' sool
We don' wan' her crawling up to a door
Rapping weakly, clothes be tore
And tha's what this is all about
Tha's it, I'm all out

Backup: Cuz...

<Refrain x3>

 

[starla{TDM}]

SSC vs RACK

Guess I will jump in here with both feet. For we do not beleive in the SSC concept. What is safe and sane to me may not be to you. It is relative to what risk you would like to take.

SSC is a pretty straight forward definition your either safe or your not, your either sane or your not, its consentual or its not. But it is a matter of how i define it and how that definition maybe different then yours.


RACK - Risk aware consentual Kink, is more about awareness and education and learning. Its not about what you think is safe or sane. its about whether I have educated msyelf enough to know that cuttings may result in permanent scars or that scat may result in the passing of Hep B. I can count numerous times the number of people I have met or heard say at parties or even in a none BDSM sense such as bike racing "I wonder if so and so is aware of the risk." That is what RACK is about, becoming aware, educating ourselves and those around us.

With RACK it takes out all the underlying inuendos which are prevelant in the BDSM communities, SSC leaves the door wide open for the attitude "my kink is better then your kink." We all have seen this when someone says "we engage in scat play (or some other extreme form of play) " and so many turn their noses up and say "thats not safe." Your right it may not be, but the participants are fully aware of the risk, and that is where it ends, your implications fo what is safe, are just that...yours.

With SSC your either safe or sane or not safe and sane. Life is not black and white like SSC implies. Where as RACK is making informed decisions on what you and your partner decide is risk.

have a good night
forever His
starla{TDM}

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Consent can only be given legally, if the person has a) the info required to make a decision informedly and b) has the capacity to do so.

Lack of education, experience, or knowledge doesn't bear on the question. Exercising common sense does. If something inside says no, you might receive empathy/sympathy, but don't gain absolution for poor choices as an adult.

Euphoria (subspace/domspace) won't stand up as a legal excuse either. Ask the date rapist doing time because "i was drunk." Both sides of the equation bear responsibility for their actions, regardless of covenant between them.

 

[Marquis]

Xelebes, you are a funny motherfucker.

 

[Marquis]

Lack of education, experience, or knowledge doesn't bear on the question. Exercising common sense does. If something inside says no, you might receive empathy/sympathy, but don't gain absolution for poor choices as an adult.

Euphoria (subspace/domspace) won't stand up as a legal excuse either. Ask the date rapist doing time because "i was drunk." Both sides of the equation bear responsibility for their actions, regardless of covenant between them.

Good stuff, thanks for the contribution.

 

[Marquis]

Guess I will jump in here with both feet. For we do not beleive in the SSC concept. What is safe and sane to me may not be to you. It is relative to what risk you would like to take.

SSC is a pretty straight forward definition your either safe or your not, your either sane or your not, its consentual or its not. But it is a matter of how i define it and how that definition maybe different then yours.


RACK - Risk aware consentual Kink, is more about awareness and education and learning. Its not about what you think is safe or sane. its about whether I have educated msyelf enough to know that cuttings may result in permanent scars or that scat may result in the passing of Hep B. I can count numerous times the number of people I have met or heard say at parties or even in a none BDSM sense such as bike racing "I wonder if so and so is aware of the risk." That is what RACK is about, becoming aware, educating ourselves and those around us.

With RACK it takes out all the underlying inuendos which are prevelant in the BDSM communities, SSC leaves the door wide open for the attitude "my kink is better then your kink." We all have seen this when someone says "we engage in scat play (or some other extreme form of play) " and so many turn their noses up and say "thats not safe." Your right it may not be, but the participants are fully aware of the risk, and that is where it ends, your implications fo what is safe, are just that...yours.

With SSC your either safe or sane or not safe and sane. Life is not black and white like SSC implies. Where as RACK is making informed decisions on what you and your partner decide is risk.

have a good night
forever His
starla{TDM}

How does this differ from the safety concept I suggested in my opening post?

 

[FLButtSlut]

Marquis,

As I am sure you know, I am relatively new here, but I have to tell you...I check the boards and specifically look for your posts because I know they will either be thought provoking, insightful, humorous or all three. Just wanted to tell you that. I'm totally with you on the consensual too. Drives me batty every time I see consentual.

It is true that Safe and Sane for Dom X may not be Safe and Sane for Sub Y, but isn't that why they probably wouldn't hook up? Because Dome X is actually looking for Sub Z who has the same Safe and Sane thoughts.

I have never picked up on all the "computer speak" (and also don't really pick up on acronyms often). I finally know what RACK means now. Thanks! How about WIITD (or something like that)?

 

[catalina_francisco]

While there are slight differences between SSC and RACK in theory, I think it is only a fool who goes into a scene with someone based on an exchange which only confirms both parties adhere to SSC or RACK practices. Personally, we always have a steady exchange of discussions based on a variety of D/s and vanilla aspects of life, as well as ask direct questions, before making the assumption another's view of SSC matches with ours. Call me suspicious, but just because someone says they are into SSC or RACK, does not make me feel any more reassured they know what they are getting into, or understand the possibilities, and thus are making an informed choice.....so we talk, and I listen and dissect until I am secure in the belief we are all on the same page and any misconceptions they may have had are cleared up to my satisfaction before they are even considered a possibility. By talking about a variety of topics in and out of D/s, you begin to pick up on the person themselves and can then get a feel as to if they are being open and honest, if they have the ability to play safe from either sides of the whip, and whether we can all meet each others needs without fear of bad outcomes, emotional, psychological, or physically. It is not a foolproof system, but is a bit better than asking if someone is into either concept and taking their answer at face value. Great thread BTW Marquis....but then what else could we expect?!!

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Do you all happen to know the history of the phrase "safe sane and consensual?" A little research goes a long way here...

I've always found the "ew, boring, we don't play that way, we play RACK" thing actually to be kind of homophobic. Lemme explain...long story very very short.

at the height of anti-gay AIDS fueled hysteria, some leathermen came up with a way to describe the process of SM to those outside the Leather subculture. "SM is safe, sane, and consensual."

SSC is essentially a PR maneuver, a way of calming mainly mainstream gays and lesbians in the mid(?) 80's that we're not just randomly pulling people off the street and beating them. In order to get the Leather piece of the AIDS prevention pie, in order to finally be able to demand some inclusion in the community on equal footing, not as token fringe lunatics. The hetero SM community decided this sounded good and applied to them too, great, wonderful.

Eventually this became a lot more. It became a club for some sm people to hit other ones over the head. It became a pickup line among hetero players "hey baby don't worry I'm always SSC." It became an "Old Guard Rule" according to online only wankers with no clue about Old Guard but who thought it sounded Awfully Important.

To the queer leather world, mostly, it remained a PR stance and something with a certain degree of wisdom to it, but nothing to lose sleep over. Most of my contacts in that universe still feel this way about it.

So a whole bunch of people who want to make sure we all know their play is way way more out on the edge than everyone else's have come up with ways to reject and circumvent this horribly limited and stupid cliche which originally had nothing to do with them really unless they are queer.

I'm happy to say that I consider my play SSC, though I assume that as thinking adults we realize a slogan is just the faintest outline, rather than anything extremely substantive. I don't see that RACK is some huge enlightened improvement on the idea, personally, and I do think we ought to be smart enough to realize that safety and sanity to me may not be safety and sanity to you.

 

[Marquis]

While there are slight differences between SSC and RACK in theory, I think it is only a fool who goes into a scene with someone based on an exchange which only confirms both parties adhere to SSC or RACK practices.

Word.

 

[Marquis]

Do you all happen to know the history of the phrase "safe sane and consensual?" A little research goes a long way here...

I've always found the "ew, boring, we don't play that way, we play RACK" thing actually to be kind of homophobic. Lemme explain...long story very very short.

at the height of anti-gay AIDS fueled hysteria, some leathermen came up with a way to describe the process of SM to those outside the Leather subculture. "SM is safe, sane, and consensual."

SSC is essentially a PR maneuver, a way of calming mainly mainstream gays and lesbians in the mid(?) 80's that we're not just randomly pulling people off the street and beating them. In order to get the Leather piece of the AIDS prevention pie, in order to finally be able to demand some inclusion in the community on equal footing, not as token fringe lunatics. The hetero SM community decided this sounded good and applied to them too, great, wonderful.

Eventually this became a lot more. It became a club for some sm people to hit other ones over the head. It became a pickup line among hetero players "hey baby don't worry I'm always SSC." It became an "Old Guard Rule" according to online only wankers with no clue about Old Guard but who thought it sounded Awfully Important.

To the queer leather world, mostly, it remained a PR stance and something with a certain degree of wisdom to it, but nothing to lose sleep over. Most of my contacts in that universe still feel this way about it.

So a whole bunch of people who want to make sure we all know their play is way way more out on the edge than everyone else's have come up with ways to reject and circumvent this horribly limited and stupid cliche which originally had nothing to do with them really unless they are queer.

I'm happy to say that I consider my play SSC, though I assume that as thinking adults we realize a slogan is just the faintest outline, rather than anything extremely substantive. I don't see that RACK is some huge enlightened improvement on the idea, personally, and I do think we ought to be smart enough to realize that safety and sanity to me may not be safety and sanity to you.

Thank you for the history lesson, and I think you had a lot of good things to say here. I agree that SSC works as a good PR tool, and a loose guide for what we should be doing ourselves. Obviously if you were into murder as your S&M play, I don't think someone telling you about SSC is going to curb that habit.

However, I think the usefulness of SSC goes beyond what you're saying here, in the BDSM community. I guess this is an extension of the PR thing, but I would go so far as to say that I DO NOT consider an activity BDSM unless it adheres to SSC. I think we as members of the BDSM community have an interest in keeping our little club somewhat exclusive, and I think you've indicated in the past that you feel similarly.

There are lots of fetishes people have that are very BDSM-like in nature, but go outside the boundaries of what I consider SSC. We will never be able to stop these acts from occurring, but I think SSC is a good boundary for those activities we should feel are included in the spectrum of BDSM. I think we have A LOT of room for edge play and all sorts of exciting shit within these boundaries, so I really don't have too much of a problem with putting them up. So if I hear a Dom tell me "my sub and I are into anorexia play, I starve her to see how skinny she can get"

I don't think I'll have a problem saying, "sorry buddy, that ain't my BDSM"

 

[Netzach]

However, I think the usefulness of SSC goes beyond what you're saying here, in the BDSM community. I guess this is an extension of the PR thing, but I would go so far as to say that I DO NOT consider an activity BDSM unless it adheres to SSC. I think we as members of the BDSM community have an interest in keeping our little club somewhat exclusive, and I think you've indicated in the past that you feel similarly.

There are lots of fetishes people have that are very BDSM-like in nature, but go outside the boundaries of what I consider SSC. We will never be able to stop these acts from occurring, but I think SSC is a good boundary for those activities we should feel are included in the spectrum of BDSM. I think we have A LOT of room for edge play and all sorts of exciting shit within these boundaries, so I really don't have too much of a problem with putting them up. So if I hear a Dom tell me "my sub and I are into anorexia play, I starve her to see how skinny she can get"

I don't think I'll have a problem saying, "sorry buddy, that ain't my BDSM"

Good point. I guess for me it does boil down to whether or not a bottom is better off post activity than pre activity overall, and the process leading up to it. Eventually it is one's own body to do with as one pleases. Castration is good for some people, but hardly something I'd recommend as a run of the mill saturday night what do we do scene for most people.

 

[FLButtSlut]

History

See I always took someone saying they are SSC to mean that all these discussion we are talking about having would occur before anything else. Silly me, I just applied it to a common sense kind of thinking without any consideration the the gay leather community or the old guard community. Oh well.

I still want to know that WIITID stands for.

 

[Netzach]

See I always took someone saying they are SSC to mean that all these discussion we are talking about having would occur before anything else. Silly me, I just applied it to a common sense kind of thinking without any consideration the the gay leather community or the old guard community. Oh well.

I still want to know that WIITID stands for.

What it is we do.

I hate that I know that.

What you're describing is called basic communication and social skills. Sometimes in short supply.

edited to add: er that's What it is THAT we (I?) do. I'm learning to spell.

 

[FLButtSlut]

God I hate "computer speak"! I thought it stood for something a bit more meaningful than that. Instead it actually stands for "I either am too lazy or don't feel like typing complete words". GEEZ