Let's really have a serious discussion about world peace. Me first,

[FlamingoBlue]

It's a dream that will never happen in real life. There will always be someone who wants what someone else has; someone who doesn't want you to have what they have or someone who thinks that that you should be just like them. Pity.

blue

 

[Guest]

It will never happen in your real life.

And it's probably not going to happen in mine.

But it may happen in your grandkids lives.

You can hope.

 

[CeceliaSkye]

The funny thing about peace is that it's an inner thing.. I think to expect "world" peace.. meaning everybody "out there" is a pipe dream. But maybe if we set out to attain peace in our own worlds... Our own personal worlds.. we might just be the change we seek ( I stole that last line from Ghandi)

 

[MunchinMark]

It has happened. Unfortunately it never lasts very long. I remember years ago reading that there had been all of two minutes peace since the end of world war two. Probably never more than a few seconds at a time I must admit.

Longer lasting peace could be achieved . But it would involve killing most of the world's population first. Then the remaining people would have too much trouble surviving to fight each other. Or find each other.

We could cut down war significantly by removing all military control from politicans, who have often used war as a way to increase support for themselves (Mr Bush? does this ring a bell?).

 

[WriterDom]

We could cut down war significantly by removing all military control from politicans, who have often used war as a way to increase support for themselves (Mr Bush? does this ring a bell?).

Why would Bush care about popularity ratings at this point in his term? We didn't ask for this war. At least we have a President that will do more than blow up an aspirin factory. (Mr. Clinton does this ring a bell?).

 

[oakleyx4]

great idea

lets get rid of the military all together. thats what liberals wanted after the ussr fell. good thing most peolpe were smarter than that. Originally posted by MunchinMark
We could cut down war significantly by removing all military control from politicans, who have often used war as a way to increase support for themselves (Mr Bush? does this ring a bell) yah and we all know the bush family did 9-11 not bin laden. its a cover up so bush could take over the world.first with high aproval ratings they world domination.

 

[MunchinMark]

So, none of you think that the presidency has used the situation to his advantage? He didn't have nearly as much support then as he does now.

OK, an almost identical example that won't get you riled. Margaret Thatcher used the Falklands War (started by an Argentinian invasion of said islands) to bolster support for a widely criticised Conservative administration.

I just know that someone is going to say that it wasn't as big a deal as what Bin Laden did. But the political response was damn similar.

There are lots and lots of examples of this. Including worse ones. (Such as what Theodore Roosevelt did to Spain).

A terrorist act is a crime, not a war, no matter how evil. The response was war. And it has increased support for G.W.Bush.

Would the same response have come if I had used any other example?

 

[oakleyx4]

terrorist act

terrorist act is war. 9-11 war was declared on the u.s. like it or not. bush is doing everthing he said he would do even if 9-11 didn't happen.

 

[p_p_man]

blue...

This subject is too broad. Before World Peace can be attained we must first discover the categories of what causes World Conflict.

I can start a list now, which I'm about to, but it won't be a final one. There are bound to be other categories which I've missed. But my point is that until a complete analysis into the reason behind the problem can be made then there will be little hope of that reason being eliminated...

1. Territory
2. Religion
3. Ambition
4. Greed
5. Money
6. Resources

A necessarily short list but even one of this size opens up sub-categories:

1. Territory
a) Religion
b) Ambition
c) Greed
d) Resources

Then again further sub sub-categories:

1. Territory
a) Religion
i) Catholics/Protestants
ii) Jews/Islam
iii) Moslems/Sikhs

and so on ad infinitum.

Even if a complete list were possible then it would have to be anyslised into the various overlaps and interplays that each sub sub-category have on each other.

AND THEN:

The whole thing would have to be re-examined to ensure that nothing has been missed. One wild element would destroy the whole re-construction.

Once we're satisfied then we can start on the reconstruction of the List from one of World Conflict to one of World Peace. Each sub sub-category would have to be corrected together with its overlaps and interplays until slowly. as we work our way to the top again, every problem which has ever been the reason for the non-attainment of World Peace has been eliminated.

That's not including new threats for which there can never be preparation:

Aliens from Outer Space

to name just one! (I can't think of any others at the moment).

That's about as serious as I'm gonna get.

 

[morninggirl5]

A terrorist act is a crime, not a war, no matter how evil. The response was war.

In an interview with CNN in March 1997, Bin Laden said

"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation."
"For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries.As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html


It really doesn't matter if you or I consider a terrorist act an act of war or not. Bin Laden considered it an act of war and the only legitimate response to his self-avowed act of war is to return his war to him.

 

[oakleyx4]

peace

i think your trying to say there will never be world peace. i agree

 

[Thumper]

We are getting better

I believe it will happen. Maybe in a few generations when the vast gap between rich and poor is narrowed and the breeding grounds of desperation and revolution are ripped up.

The major religions no longer condone or incite war..just the radical and as such small minority of sociopathic believers.

The Ghost of Christmas present warned Scrooge to beware the two children under his coat. They were the two children of humanity. One was ignorance and the other was want. He told Scrooge to especially careful of ignorance.

Ignorance breeds hate. Hate begets violence.

We can't stop believing peace is impossible. If we do, then it will be impossible. No one works toward an "impossible" task.

 

[MunchinMark]

I don't consider religious fanatics to be representative. Bin Laden wants to be a War Leader. If he is then there is justification for his actions. He is a criminal, just because he says it's war doesn't make it so. Where is his country in this? I don't believe they support him. He does not have the authority to declare a war any more than I have.

If I were to declare war on, say France. That would be a legitimate war would it? I'm sure I can find some people who are anti-french enough to do something criminal and destructive in France. And then I could go and stay in Canada. With the full knowledge of the Canadian government. And France would then have declare war on Canada, whilst the international scene made a fuss about the welfare of the people of Quebec?
There could be pro-Canadian riots in Chicago if you like.

I have stated elsewhere my opinions about this war. If you treat Bin Laden's actions as a war rather than crime then you pave the way for his martyrdom.

 

[oakleyx4]

al-quaeda

bin laden runs al-quaeda,supported by the taliban. he is backed by other terroist countries. he has money and support.he is a war criminal,not just a criminal. most muslims agree with him and fight with him. afganistan houses him.war doesnt have to be declared on a country to make it legit. this is a war on all terroist and those who support it. i have to ask do you support this war or are you against?

 

[MunchinMark]

I am in favour of bringing Osama Bin Laden to Justice. But I do not think that this war was the best way to do that. Now that it is being fought it will continue to be fought. And the next batch of terrorists will have their reason to commit their attrocities, so the war is in itself a defeat.

Bullshit most Muslims support Osama Bin Laden's personal crusade. Many (but not even the majority) do admire the fact that he stands up for his faith. But that is not the same thing.

What terrorist countries?
Lybia has condemned him, so have Iraq and Iran.

Osama Bin Laden wants a holy war between Islam and Christianity. Why do you seem so eager to give him what he wants?

 

[p_p_man]

Re: al-quaeda

he is backed by other terroist countries.

What the fuck's a terrorist country?

Don't you mean a country which has a Government which is sympathetic with various terrorist causes?

 

[WriterDom]

I have stated elsewhere my opinions about this war. If you treat Bin Laden's actions as a war rather than crime then you pave the way for his martyrdom.

You are sniffing glue if you think his martyrdom hasn't been forever etched into history. The lesson here is that institutes of higher terrorist learning need to be nipped in the bud. Bin is basically a retard with a lot of money. The brains of the outfit is already sucking Satan in Hell. Once we exterminate all the vermin in Afghanistan, which should take another week, it will be time to move on to another hotbed of cowardly terrorism.

 

[p_p_man]

Once we exterminate all the vermin in Afghanistan,

Including the Northern Alliance?

 

[paganangel]

oakley, how mny muslums do u know?

well, how many?

 

[paganangel]

pop quiz

anyone know about shays rebellion?

i hate to say this, but remember, people are only terrorists until they win.

 

[paganangel]

and while i'm ranting

peace is overrated. one day i may have a child. and inevitbly that child will one day approach me and ask, "Daddy, why is the world such a violent place?"
and i, with wet but open eyes will say, "because baby... it works."

we cannot expect to socialize or evolve beyond evolution. social darwinism..."survival of the fittest."
scary? you bet. but all the civilization on earth can't change it. better not let our idealization of a civilized society convince us against what we need to do.

stay fit.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: We are getting better

The Ghost of Christmas present warned Scrooge to beware the two children under his coat. They were the two children of humanity. One was ignorance and the other was want. He told Scrooge to especially careful of ignorance.

Ignorance breeds hate. Hate begets violence.

We can't stop believing peace is impossible. If we do, then it will be impossible. No one works toward an "impossible" task.

I happen to agree with you, to a great extent. However, I don't really believe that there's a way to stop ignorant and dangerous people from attaining positions of power over other ignorant and dangerous (or just apathetic or powerless) people.

I've Heard such things as "If the US would disband the Military, all would be well" or "If President Bush would stop the war in Afghanistan, we'd be fine" and a lot of other sentiments that seems to say that the sheer existence of the military causes wars.

It doesn't. Ignorance and fear and hate and spite does. And whether we like it or not, we need our militaries to halt the ignorance and fear and hate and spite. And if it takes a hundred wars to topple evil men from positions of power then so be it, if what it gains us is the understanding that evil, ignorant, hate-filled people will never be allowed to hold positions of power to menace the world.

I can live with that. I can live with wars until everyone gets the message. Because I believe that, in time, the message will get through - perhaps hot to everyone, but to enough people to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

 

[oakleyx4]

terrorist

just because someone says they they condemned him and his acts you belive. then we should believe saddam isnt building chemical weapons because he says so. we shoulsd not even bother. and arafat had nothing to do with the suicide bombings in jerusalem. terrorist countries support and help the killing of inocent people. the northern alliance are not terrorist they taking there country back from bin ladden and the taliban. all muslims study and follow the koran and it says to kill all non belivers and infidels.ie isrial and usa. they even teach that in the schools and mosq even friendly coutries to the u.s like saudi arabia teach not to trust americans.not all hate us but most do. and pp man and munchinmark what do you think the u.s should have done since 9-11 since you dont believe in the war?

 

[paganangel]

people like u scare the hell out of me

show me where in the koran it says to kill nonbelievers. have you ever read the koran? can you read? is someone typing this for you? ever been to a mosque? heard the preachings?
zealots are half the reason for war..,people like you are the ones they recruit into their ranks. i can't believe we are from the same city. if you are that mistrustful of outsiders you are in the wrong country. all that has ever made us up has been outsiders.

 

[paganangel]

just because someone says they they condemned him and his acts you belive.

just because someone tells you something about muslums, you believe.