Let it all hang out. After all, it's only cyberspace.

[FlamingoBlue]

Civility. Ever hear of it?? It's a way to act towards one another in a manner that promotes harmony and understanding. Civility certainly is a problem in RL and it seems to be a bigger problem in cyberspace.

Anonymity on the web, in my opinion, has led to a tremendous increase in uncivil behavior. Just check out the recent threads on this BB. There are ways to disagree with another person's opinion without resorting to personal attacks. A simple statement like "I disagree with you, because...." would be a good place to start. An alternative approach is to take your differences of opinion private, via email or pm's. Anything is better than watching folks attacking one another. We have enough of that now in the real world.

I am not suggesting that we eliminate debate on topics. I am only suggesting that there is nothing inherently evil about a person who holds a different opinion than your's, unless of course that person is trying to harm you.


blue

 

[Guest]

yup

I agree. The anonymity contributes to erratic behavior. You suffer no consequences. Plus, without voice inflection, facial expressions, and body language- one could be misread. There are things said in this medium that would not be muttered to another's face. Duality- gotta love it.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Oh go hug a tree.

 

[Kasha]

I just heard on the radio about some study saying that people that spend their time online seem to be more civil minded. They said we have better manners than those that don't go online. Of couse you are always gonna have people that don't mesh, as in RL.

Personally, I haven't gotten really upset with anyone yet, and to my knowledge no one has gotten upset with me, but I have seen a few threads that the posters go for the vugular...

I don't think I would enjoy that too much. It seems tedious and silly. I mean, why waste time with people who don't treat you like you want to be treated. But this is all just my own opinion.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I'm not sure who you're talking to. Trolls? It's wasted. People attacked by trolls? They have a right to vent. Rude posts like "Oh go hug a tree?" Sometimes they have a way cutting through the prompous profundity. Should we be civil in discussion? Sure. But with an audience of 100 worldwide cultures and myriad experiences you're going to get heated words without a moderator to set rules and define terms. It's just going to happen. Better look to do how to deal with it, maturely, or with humor, or patience, and at the very least - perspective -- than try to change it.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Whatever makes you think I do not behave like this in real life? Muffin face to face is the same as Muffin monitor to monitor.

I don't see the board as much different than reality either. People behave here just like they do in real life. It's just that everyone has access to what people are doing here, and they don't always have access to what's going on around them out there.

 

[Guest]

Oh go hug a tree.

Done. Added a hump or two for ya, as well.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Ditto.

This is a community like any other, but the doors are wide open here, so everyone can take a look into each other's bedroom and kitchens and comment as though they were a member of the family. Live with it, or move to gated community.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Done. Added a hump or two for ya, as well.

You did knot.

 

[Guest]

You did knot.

A'frayed knot? Heh. Yep- did it. Just for you!

 

[FlamingoBlue]

It's a question of degree for me....

I have not suggested that we simply agree with everything that someone says.To the contrary. I believe that the BBis a wonderful place to debate/argue alternative positions on an issue. That does not mean that we have to be abusive in getting our point accross.

blue

 

[Guest]

Whatever makes you think I do not behave like this in real life? Muffin face to face is the same as Muffin monitor to monitor.

I don't see the board as much different than reality either. People behave here just like they do in real life. It's just that everyone has access to what people are doing here, and they don't always have access to what's going on around them out there.

Killermuffin,
I see your point. I don't know you, but from what I can draw from your posts, you seem like a no-nonsense, what you see is what you get type ofperson. You may be real from one environment to the next, but there are some that are not quite that comfortable in their own skin. So, online mediums are their venues for "creative" endeavors. Ya know?

 

[TN_Vixen]

we may not have to be abusive, but we also don't have to be nice. I'm not nice in everyday life when I disagree with someone so I'm not going to sugar coat it just because I'm online. Granted, I'm not as up front with my hostility like the KM is, but I wish I were. Life would be so much easier if I could just tell people that piss me off to go fuck themselves.

And if you happen to catch me right before my period? Like now? You bet your sweet grandma's ass I'm going to be abusive.

 

[Kasha]

lol I think our cycles must be the same...

 

[miles]

TN_Vixen

ahem....cough cough

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

A simple statement like "I disagree with you, because...." would be a good place to start.

I have found taking it one step further helps; "I disagree with your assertion that" etc. - in other words make it totally impersonal. I don't always go that far because I don't think it is usually needed with most people, but when a person exhibits sensitivty on a subject, or the subject itself is a naturally sensitive one, that approach helps.

Also, never say "that is a lie" as that is basically calling the person a liar. Sure something may be untrue, but the person who made the statement may not know it - either way it is essentially an ad hominem attack to make it so personal. Just say something like "that assertion is false", or as you suggest "I disagree, because" and present your argument.

SOmetimes though, no matter what you say some people are going to take offense when you disagree with them - some of them very personally. When that happens I have found that person is one that seems to like to give offense with rude behavior, but takes offense at the slightest suggestion they might be wrong. Such people are best ignored - but sometimes that is hard to do.

STG

 

[scylis]

(pardon my silliness)

for some strange reason, i got this feeling of deja vu when i started reading this thread, right down to Kasha's post... something about it seems too damn familiar. maybe we've just been down this road with a eerily similar thread in the past.

freaky.







wait a sec.....

*turns around real fast and punches behind me, knocking Rod Sterling on his ass*

ahhhh HAH!!

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Re: Let it all hang out. After all, it's only cyberspace.

Also, never say "that is a lie" as that is basically calling the person a liar. Sure something may be untrue, but the person who made the statement may not know it - either way it is essentially an ad hominem attack to make it so personal. Just say something like "that assertion is false", or as you suggest "I disagree, because" and present your argument.

I disagree with your assertion.

If I say something is a lie, I INTEND to call the person who said it a liar. It means I believe they said something that they knew was a lie and they intentionally said it anyway. Most often, I will do it by saying "I call bullshit." That makes it very clear exactly what I believe.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Re: Let it all hang out. After all, it's only cyberspace.

I disagree with your assertion.

I agree with your disagreement ; I should have not used the word "never" as a qualifier.

If I say something is a lie, I INTEND to call the person who said it a liar. It means I believe they said something that they knew was a lie and they intentionally said it anyway. Most often, I will do it by saying "I call bullshit." That makes it very clear exactly what I believe.

Just the same I don't call people liars even if I think they are - at least not in so many words. I rarely come across people that are intentionally lying - usually they said something that is untrue that they didn't know was untrue, and my rule was meant to apply to those cases. I have too often heard people either explicitly call someone a liar or imply it (maybe unintentionally) by saying a statement they made was a "lie".

My point is that people should be careful how they choose their words, especially online where there are none of the usual facial and verbal cues.

STG

 

[Guest]

{{{{{{{{{{Blue}}}}}}}}}}

 

[Guest]

"Up."

 

[Samuari]

Civility. Ever hear of it?? It's a way to act towards one another in a manner that promotes harmony and understanding. Civility certainly is a problem in RL and it seems to be a bigger problem in cyberspace.
blue

Hienlien once wrote that civility is "oil for the fine machinery of civilization, bad manners throws sand into the gear box." Or as my dad was fond of saying, "learn to disagree with out being disagreeable."

Is that enough platitudes for you? The flip side is that there are times to warn the board that someone is being at least inconsistent in presenting thier qualifications in such a way as to give the impression that they have an expert opinion. There have been times that if the advice given by these "experts" had been followed, there could have been severe financial, and/or legal problems. I've seen it more than once on this board and from several different people. When I see it again, you can expect that I will not be very civil, again.

 

[SimplySouthern]

In a perfect world, everyone would be civil. In a perfect world, we wouldn't even need a thread like this because everyone would be so nice to everyone that we would all have to vomit to cut the sticky sweet smell in the air.

Thankfully, this is not a perfect world we live in and oftentimes, on the BB as well as in real life, people have to speak out and disagree with one another. Do I think people should "scream" and curse at one another here? Certainly not. I do, however, think that people should say what they mean and mean what they say. If I have a problem with you, or something you said, I'll tell you. I probably won't candy coat it with pretty words and wrap it up in shiny smiley paper so that your feelings won't be hurt; I'll just say it.

I was told growing up that "Plain talk is easy understood". To me, this sums it all up. Eloquent words are wonderful, and I'm grateful that some of us here write our posts this way, but when it comes to matters of argument and deabte, I would much rather have someone tell me like it is than try to dress it up in flowing script.

I respect the members of this BB (Cheyenne, KM, PC, etc.) who come right out and say what they mean. As well they should. I always know where I stand with them, and I don't have to worry about if they are secretly mad at me behind my back.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Let it all hang out. After all, it's only cyberspace.

Is that enough platitudes for you? The flip side is that there are times to warn the board that someone is being at least inconsistent in presenting thier qualifications in such a way as to give the impression that they have an expert opinion. There have been times that if the advice given by these "experts" had been followed, there could have been severe financial, and/or legal problems. I've seen it more than once on this board and from several different people. When I see it again, you can expect that I will not be very civil, again.

Why uncivil?

I have had problems with people mistaking my assertiveness in my opinions for stating that I am an expert in some field, or that they should accept my statements on face value. Expert or not people should always question statements not by who made them, or by the authority with which they are stated - but rather by whether the statements/argument makes rational sense.

Either way, in rational debate, the proper way to refute a statement is with rational and polite statements of counter arguments. I don't always follow that rule, but I try.

STG

 

[KillerMuffin]

raindancer, has it ever occurred to you that in real life people pretend to who they are not? Married men who say they aren't? Women who pretend they don't have children? Con men who go knocking door to door in NYC hours after a pair of planes do damage and pretend to be firemen collecting donations?

People lie, act deceitful, and create a ring of lies around themselves no matter where you are. Isn't that slightly naive to think that the web is more chock full of liars and fakes than reality is?

It seems easier to be fake on the Net than it does to be fake in real life. However, lies are a web of deceit that unravel over time. Most people are far from stupid, inconsistencies make them suspicious. Some people are too trusting, they take everyone at face value in both real life and the 'Net.

The 'Net is more anonymous. That's where it's charm lies for people who want to escape their lives. They can be whomever they want to be. When they get caught at it, they either create a new persona or just move on to some other web community and continue the same fiction. We've seen that happen here before as well.

In reality, it's probably more difficult to carry off the deciet for some people, they have to be who they are. It's not for others.

The 'Net is a more turn-offable version of reality. Never forget that it reflects us. It reflects our wants, desires, lusts, and our deceits as well.