Lenin

[HeavyStick]

I bet Marx is giving him a hummer.

Now I know why Redwave holds Lenin in such high regard..... he was a lawyer who failed also.

Follow his example and exile yourself in Switzerland for a while.

Lenin was a sellout and proved it with the peace negotations with the Germans. He gave them a vast amount of Russian territory containing 1/2 the industry, 1/3 of the cultivated land and 1/3 of the Russian population. That's a funny way of saying thanks for the support during my uprising.

Maybe we should really explore Lenin's crimes and atrocities of the Russian Civil War between the Red and White Armies.

While Lenin is regarded as one of the most revolutionary leaders he was also one of the cruelest.

 

[Ginny]

he was a meanie......<nodding>

 

[REDWAVE]

In defense of Lenin

Lenin was the greatest revolutionary who ever lived, the leader of the world's first successful proletarian revolution. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was a very shrewd pragmatic move by Lenin. Russia was thoroughly beaten by Germany at that point, and the cessation of hostilities bought time for the fledgling Soviet workers state, and was later reversed by the Allied victory in the West anyway.

As for Lenin's alleged "cruelty," that's a myth. Historian Bruce Lincoln, in his book Red Victory, a remarkably even-handed account of the Russian Civil War, states that there were atrocities on both sides, but those by the Whites (the counterrevolutionaries) were much more numerous and much more barbaric. The early Soviet state was actually often remarkably leniant toward its enemies, often letting them go in return for promising not to take up arms against the workers state again (a promise many of them broke). It was much more forgiving toward its enemies than the capitalist state is toward its enemies. The bloodbath and massacre of workers after the Paris Commune of 1871 is one example.

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: In defense of Lenin

Lenin was the greatest revolutionary who ever lived, the leader of the world's first successful proletarian revolution. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was a very shrewd pragmatic move by Lenin. not shrewd move... cowards move Russia was thoroughly beaten by Germany at that point
at that point, they could have never recovered , and the cessation of hostilities bought time for the fledgling Soviet workers state, and was later reversed by the Allied victory in the West anyway.
Capitalism to the rescue, shameful you admitted it

As for Lenin's alleged "cruelty," that's a myth. Historian Bruce Lincoln, in his book Red Victory, a remarkably even-handed account of the Russian Civil War, states that there were atrocities on both sides, but those by the Whites (the counterrevolutionaries) were much more numerous and much more barbaric. The early Soviet state was actually often remarkably leniant toward its enemies, often letting them go in return for promising not to take up arms against the workers state again (a promise many of them broke). It was much more forgiving toward its enemies than the capitalist state is toward its enemies. The bloodbath and massacre of workers after the Paris Commune of 1871 is one example.

 

[HeavyStick]

Lenin was actually: Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov

Birth April 22, 1870
Death January 21, 1924 (not soon enough)
Place of Birth Simbirsk, Russia
Political Party Communist
Term 1918-1924
Official Title Chairman of the People's Council of Commissars
Known for Organizing the revolutionary movement that overthrew the Russian imperial leadership and contributing to the movement's ideological foundation, which was based on Marxist theoryDeveloping techniques for recruiting and training a disciplined professional revolutionary party, creating a model that influenced revolutions in China Known for it's fine human rights and Cuba The hidden power house in the Atlantic, they plan on killing Capitalism with cancer from it's cigars

Milestones:
1887 Was expelled from Kazan' University for participating in a student demonstration.
1895 Was jailed for his involvement in organizing Marxist activities; after 15 months in prison, was sentenced to three years of exile.
1899 Published The Development of Capitalism in Russia, which he wrote while exiled in Siberia.
1902 Published a pamphlet titled What Is To Be Done? outlining the need for highly trained professional revolutionaries.
1903 Created a rift at the Second Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party by insisting that membership be limited to a small core; his supporters were thereafter known as Bolsheviks, his opponents known as Mensheviks.
1916 Published Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, attributing World War I to capitalist nations' need to constantly expand.
1917 Convinced a majority of the Bolsheviks to seize power from the provisional government; founded the Socialist state, and formed a coalition government with the Left Socialist Revolutionaries.
1918 Split with the Left Social Revolutionaries and renamed the Bolsheviks the Russian Communist Party; launched the Red Terror, a campaign to eliminate political opponents among the civilian population; survived an assassination attempt.
1919 Organized the Third International, popularly known as the Communist International or Comintern, to promote world revolution according to the Russian Communist model.
1921 Introduced a policy of economic liberalization known as the New Economic Policy.
1922-1923 Experienced declining health after suffering a stroke; authored his "testament," which included criticism of Joseph Stalin, then general secretary of the Communist Party.

Quote "Liberty is precious, so precious that it must be rationed." Sounds like censorship.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Hmm.

If I recall the history I have read correctly, Lenin and the red gang hijacked a revolution that was already going on.

 

[HeavyStick]

Damn... no more redwave comments.... must have run out of propaganda

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Nah. The comrades would never allow that to happen....unless.....(gasp) they made a non-aggression pact with the Facists and decided to invade Poland again.


It could happen.

 

[Marxist]

This is definitely a funny thread.

Hold on, I'm trying to think of other long dead people to be disgusted with...

Minnie Pearl?

Hitler?

Caesar?

Pol Pot?

 

[HeavyStick]

This is definitely a funny thread.

Hold on, I'm trying to think of other long dead people to be disgusted with...

Minnie Pearl?

Hitler?

Caesar?

Pol Pot?

Colonel Sanders

Ray Kroc

Abe Vigoda (He's dead he just forgot to tell anyone else)

 

[REDWAVE]

Where's the beef?

You haven't even come up with anything very damning about Lenin yet, Stick. You haven't even mentioned Kronstadt, or the Cheka, or the dissolving of the Constituent Assembly in 1918. You'll just have to try harder.

 

[Siren]

 

[Dillinger]

Hey babe.

 

[Azwed]

I saw Lenin's mummified shriveling body laying in eternal state in Lenin's Tomb in Red Square Moscow under Soviet Rule.

You had to walk around the glass enclosed case with Lenin inside.,........and you had to be quiet and respectful.
I made the mistake of laughing at something a friend said......
and a soldier tapped me on shoulder to shut up and gave me a stern look.

He is a god to the Communist Russian.

Weird.

Surreal.

and

Spooky.

Like Mao in China.

Lenin did what he had to during WWI to get the soviets out of the war and protect the stability of the state. He was being a realist not a coward. He knew what russia could do at the time and what they could not.

 

[REDWAVE]

The Kronstadt mutiny

Yeah, Azwed, but what do you think about Kronstadt?

 

[Azwed]

Re: The Kronstadt mutiny

Yeah, Azwed, but what do you think about Kronstadt?

Don't know it. My Russian/History knowledge is pretty thin. I have always concentrated more on Asia and Latin America.

Have you seen any of Eisenstein's films?

 

[REDWAVE]

Yes, I've seen one, but it was a long time ago. Why do you ask?

 

[Azwed]

I don't know I just saw one recently in a film history class and liked it. Thought you might have seen a few.

The one I saw was the Potemkin. It was about a mutiny on a battleship of the same name and the subsequent revolt of the city of odessa.

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: Where's the beef?

You haven't even come up with anything very damning about Lenin yet, Stick. You haven't even mentioned Kronstadt, or the Cheka, or the dissolving of the Constituent Assembly in 1918. You'll just have to try harder.

there are issues for you to address, like your typical rhetoric and spin, you'll address what you want when.

If a Republican or a Democrat attempted to avoid similar issues you would blast it out of proportion.

I'm not sinking to your level, just verifying your hypocrisy.

 

[Siren]

 

[HeavyStick]

Yea......but.........

I SAW Lenin

what about the rest of the beatles?

 

[Siren]

 

[Lost Cause]

Lenin....the perfect representation of communism..

Dead, embalmed, and contained in a dank place! Let's not forget the "crew" or "posse" of his. What did Trotsky die from? A hammer to the back of the head? Let's not forget the starving of millions in the Ukraine to feed Moscow, what was it 33 million by Kruschev and Beria?Evil incarnate.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Where's the beef?

You haven't even come up with anything very damning about Lenin yet, Stick. You haven't even mentioned Kronstadt, or the Cheka, or the dissolving of the Constituent Assembly in 1918. You'll just have to try harder.

Oh boy!!! . . . and not a word about the 6 milllion pounds seterling provided by the Danish Kuhn Loeb Bank to finance the Revolution??? And the organisation for Lenin to move across enemy German territory in a sealed train to start the revolution . . .

Seems Kerensky's HIstory of the Soviet Union gives more information than here . . .

 

[REDWAVE]

Hammer?

A hammer? Get it right, please, LC-- Trotsky died from an icepick (technically, an ice axe) to the forehead. In Mexico City in 1940. Administered by a shadowy Stalinist goon who went by a number of names, one of them being Ramon Mercador. Trotsky was extremely strong and vigorous for his age (almost 60), so he lingered on for three days in great pain before finally dying.

His final words were: "I am confident that our final victory is inevitable. Go forward!"