Legalize or war on drugs

[mokum13]

This question is a big issue here in the Netherlands.

Let me explain one thing first. This about hard drugs. In the netherlands we have devided drugs into hard- and softdrugs. Softdrugs (like marihuana) is already 'legal' here. You can own 30 grams of it for personal use. Using it is not breaking any laws.

The discussion is about hard drugs (coke, heroine). If they legalize it the crime will become less. Especially with the junkies who do anything to get money. Here in Amsterdam there is a project that suplis drugs (heroine) to known junkies so they dont have to rob anyone to get their money.

What is your opinion?

To make things clear. I think how we arranged things here is good. I'm not using soft or harddrugs. Never did and never will. But i dont mind people who do, it's their choice.

 

[Worm]

This question is a big issue here in the Netherlands.

Here in Amsterdam there is a project that suplis drugs (heroine) to known junkies so they dont have to rob anyone to get their money.

If my tax money is gonna be spent buying anyone drugs its gonna be for myself. I have tried most drugs hard and soft in my teen years and I would most defintely be against legalizing them. By legalizing drugs you would in effect be saying to millions of young impressionable minds that it is ok and can't be that bad if it's legal.

Tho I wouldn't mind if pot was legalized, its my last crutch

 

[Ishmael]

This question is a big issue here in the Netherlands.

Let me explain one thing first. This about hard drugs. In the netherlands we have devided drugs into hard- and softdrugs. Softdrugs (like marihuana) is already 'legal' here. You can own 30 grams of it for personal use. Using it is not breaking any laws.

The discussion is about hard drugs (coke, heroine). If they legalize it the crime will become less. Especially with the junkies who do anything to get money. Here in Amsterdam there is a project that suplis drugs (heroine) to known junkies so they dont have to rob anyone to get their money.

What is your opinion?

To make things clear. I think how we arranged things here is good. I'm not using soft or harddrugs. Never did and never will. But i dont mind people who do, it's their choice.

I am not a user.

Drugs should be legalized and restrictively sold here in the United States.

Studies going back to the late 60's (Fortner et al) indicate that there is a constant percentage of the population that is prone to the use of 'hard' drugs. It was observed that as the population rose in this country, so did the number of user's, but the percentage remained somewhat constant.

The use of drugs in this and other countries where they are illegal has financed narco-terrorism and other activities that are far more detrimental to society than the use of the drugs themselves.

The drugs in question are agricultural products and dirt cheap on a legal market. Easy to grow, easy to manufacture. The act of registration of the user will, or should be, sufficient to prevent casual users from entering the program. The benefits, particularly in the reduction of theft insurance payouts should more than defray the cost of the drugs themselves.

Add to that the fact that employer's will add to their applications, "Are you a registered drug user?" While that may seem discrimanatory, it is no more so than the current per-employment drug tests or the random testing and zero tolerance programs now in place. A further incentive for those that are not currently using drugs not to start.

All in all, the "war on drugs" is a losing battle and a different approach has to be taken.

Ishmael

 

[REDWAVE]

Legalize

I definitely favor legalization. In fact, since most of the right-wingers on this board tend to be libertarians, and few (if any) liberals or leftists will oppose the idea of legalizing drugs, I imagine you'll find substantial agreement here.

IMO, all drugs should be legalized because adults have the right to use them if they choose. They are simply pursuing their happiness in the manner they see fit, and not violating anyone else's rights. Also, the "war on drugs" endangers the civil liberties of all of us, drug users and non-users alike. Finally, it's not working, anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, it's none of an employer's business whether someone is using drugs or not. They should be barred from asking that question.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Legalize

As far as I'm concerned, it's none of an employer's business whether someone is using drugs or not. They should be barred from asking that question.

Au contraire.

If I'm paying you to put round pegs in round holes, I probably don't give a rats ass whether you're a user or not. However, if I'm paying you to program a process control system for a nuclear power plant I give a great big rats ass whether you're a user or not (and so do the people that live around the nuclear plant).

Ishmael

 

[cg_allstar]

Re: Legalize

As far as I'm concerned, it's none of an employer's business whether someone is using drugs or not. They should be barred from asking that question.

I'm sure the astronaughts riding the next space shuttle would love to know if the ground crew and control crew are drug free. People on mind-altering substances have a tendency to screw up, big time.

I'm sure if you thought about it Red, you could think of lots of professions the affect your life everyday where you'd want the employer to hire drug-free people.

 

[REDWAVE]

We found something to argue about!

Hey, we had to argue about something, huh, even though we agree about legalizing drugs. Another bone I can pick here is that Americans buying drugs may have supported "narco-terrorism" (whatever that is), but they also have supported the CIA, which has smuggled huge quantities of drugs into this country. Oliver North, during "Iran-Contra," was one of the world's biggest drug smugglers.

 

[peachykeen]

Does anyone think we're going to get anywhere with more of the same? The so-called 'war on drugs' is a scam.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: We found something to argue about!

Hey, we had to argue about something, huh, even though we agree about legalizing drugs. Another bone I can pick here is that Americans buying drugs may have supported "narco-terrorism" (whatever that is), but they also have supported the CIA, which has smuggled huge quantities of drugs into this country. Oliver North, during "Iran-Contra," was one of the world's biggest drug smugglers.

Didn't take you long to drag the CIA into the discussion, did it? Some things never change.

Ishmael

 

[Saint Peter]

I work construction (similar to round pegs in round holes.) It is not a profession full of rocket scientists. I have many dangers on the jobsite and do not need a non-sober coworker's help in cutting my life or limb short. All jobs have risks. These risks should not be multiplied with hazy judgement.

When a worker is not on the clock then that worker should be free to party. Go for it. I dont care. But show back up sober for your safety and mine.

 

[Ishmael]

I work construction (similar to round pegs in round holes.) It is not a profession full of rocket scientists. I have many dangers on the jobsite and do not need a non-sober coworker's help in cutting my life or limb short. All jobs have risks. These risks should not be multiplied with hazy judgement.

When a worker is not on the clock then that worker should be free to party. Go for it. I dont care. But show back up sober for your safety and mine.

Actually, construction is mostly skilled labor. I don't put that in the category of round pegs at all. That being said, there are still some jobs out there that do not endanger others and can be done with half a mind.

Ishmael

 

[Saint Peter]

Actually, construction is mostly skilled labor. I don't put that in the category of round pegs at all. That being said, there are still some jobs out there that do not endanger others and can be done with half a mind.

Ishmael

The number of jobs that do not endanger others is small. Think of even the most simple jobs and hazards are everywhere. Years of OSHA brainwashing has taken a toll on me but I still prefer the masses to show up to work sober and alert.

 

[Ishmael]

The number of jobs that do not endanger others is small. Think of even the most simple jobs and hazards are everywhere. Years of OSHA brainwashing has taken a toll on me but I still prefer the masses to show up to work sober and alert.

Didn't say there was a lot of them SP, just that they were there.

Tele-marketer comes to mind.

Ishmael

 

[Lasher]

Perhaps we should have a War on Legalized Drugs.

I have absolutely no statisical evidence to back me up on this, so I feel very confident in saying it.... But I just have to believe that the people who abuse alchohol, tobacco and prescription drugs do far more damage than the people who were buying marijuana from Nate Newton, or I guess any other form of illicit drug.

 

[ksmybuttons]

I want them legalized, controlled and HIGHLY taxed. People are going to use, they will be able to get bootleg, but sell clean stuff with the alcohol and cigarettes and tax it! Of course, I think white flour is just as dangerous, so you could tax that, too.

 

[Narcosis]

wouldnt highly taxing them defeat the purpose of legalizing them? i thought we didnt want crackheads trying to rob us once its legal.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

To know my stance on the issue, all you have to do is search on my nickname and "war on drugs". In short, I am for decriminalization, maybe legalization. The main problem I have with the "war on drugs" is that to fight it we step all over people's rights.

There are half a million plus POWs locked up in federal prisons in the "war on drugs", and over $10 billion (yes billion with a "B") worth of property is seized every year by law enforcement using civil forfeiture laws (i.e., without charging the property owner with a crime - just simply seizing the property).

If it wasn't for all this collateral damage to our rights caused by the carpet bombing law enforcement engages in to stop drug smuggling and use, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with drug laws. Even if they were just enforced in the way "John" laws are, their existance and the stigma of being labeled a drug user would dissuade quite a few people from drug use.

 

[Mr. Asshole]

War on drugs is a joke. It is just another way to get the politicians votes. Legalize the shit and let all those dumb ass junkies die a horrible death. Maybe then it might deter others.

 

[ub6ibfine]

well truthfull leagalize it or not people are still gonna do it. those impressionable minds are more impressionable from there peers then the govt. most people get tired of worrying about the law an all that shit. if its legal or not i dont give a fuck i wanna do it im gonna do it an so does many other people.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

wouldnt highly taxing them defeat the purpose of legalizing them? i thought we didnt want crackheads trying to rob us once its legal.

Yes it would defeat the whole purpose. Criminals are involved in drug trafficking because there is money in it, not because it is a crime or because they have some philosophical stand on drugs.

If we taxed drugs the same way we tax cigarettes, then we would have the same problems all over again - we already have people smuggling cigarettes and hijacking trucks, etc.

People, I will say it yet again; taxes are not a social tool - the purpose of taxes is to pay for the cost of business, i.e., taxes are to pay the cost for your use of shared resources, and for your share of such things as law enforcement and national defense. Taxes are a very poor tool to use to dissuade someone from using drugs - if you go back to the very first attempts at drug law enforcement, you will find that they used taxes and the attempt failed.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: We found something to argue about!

Hey, we had to argue about something, huh, even though we agree about legalizing drugs. Another bone I can pick here is that Americans buying drugs may have supported "narco-terrorism" (whatever that is), but they also have supported the CIA, which has smuggled huge quantities of drugs into this country. Oliver North, during "Iran-Contra," was one of the world's biggest drug smugglers.

You are almost as predictable as Yayati.

If I didn't know better I would guess that you, Yayati and Pee Pee Man are all the same person; so predictable, so much like broken records, and most of the time so boring.