Leahaven

[stxjimmy]

There is so much I want to tell you and update you about, but I woke up just now remembering something, and I want to tell you about that.

In the spring semester of my sophomore year, I got a call from my dad one night, and he was very angry. Up until then, he had been mostly directing what classes I would take and register for, but going into my junior year, what he was telling me to take did not fit with where I wanted to focus my studies. I did not do what he wanted, and I registered for the classes I wanted instead. I knew he would find out and be upset, but I didn't know how upset. That night on the phone when he called, he was screaming at me. He called me "the most disrespectful, spoiled brat I've ever met in my life!" I tried to explain, and I was nice about it, but the more I said, the angrier he became. I finally just stopped talking. When it was all over and we got off the phone, I immediately called Robbie, and as soon as I heard his voice, I began to cry. We talked for the longest time, me lying in my bed in my dorm room, tucked under the covers as if they might protect me from my emotional pain. Robbie was reassuring, and he calmed me down. I told him I didn't want to be there anymore, I wanted to go home, but I no longer had a home. Not only did my parents not like the person I had become, they no longer accepted me for who I am. I had suspected it already, but the phone call validated my suspicions.

"You're my safe haven, Robbie," I told him.

"You're MY safe haven," he replied.

I told him that I hated being so far away from him, but he assured me that it would all be worth it. "Just see it through," he said. "I'm here waiting when you finish." I started to cry all over again, and I cried myself to sleep that night, staring out the window at moonlight shining on slowly moving clouds.

From that day on, Robbie and I sometimes refer to each other as each other's haven. When we bought this house, I called it our "new haven." If you've read my profile, I said that I wanted the username "Haven."

Now you know why.

I hope one day should you have your own children you realise the point of good parenting is in preparing your offspring to leave, and to be able to make their own choices confidently and ably.

 

[LeaHaven]

I suspect that R doesn't want to feel "less than" or feel unmanly or whatever.

No, he does! He just doesn't want others to see it. He regularly puts himself down in this subject. I used to always contradict him, but over time I could see that I wasn't changing anything. Reading these forums made me realize that feeling "less than" is what he wants. So I've started playing into it. Last night we had a long, long very good talk (I'll talk more about this later), and at one point he said, "I still can't believe that on February 3rd, I'll become a fuckin house boy."

I replied, "You'll become a house boy, alright, but I'm not sure about fuckin part." He blushed 10 shades or red. I patted his leg and added, "We're gonna work on that part though, baby." He did not get upset. He just gave me a smirk.

And by the way, little does he know, but he will start his new "position" on Feb.1, not Feb 3.

I know that in public and around others I have to act like we are a traditional marriage in every aspect. If I talk about paying bills or vehicle registrations or retirement savings or anything like that, I always use the term "we" or "Robbie and I." But there is no "we" on these things. It's all me. Tbh, I'm ok with that.

 

[naughty_stories]

I applaud you both on realizing the true dynamic of your relationship. Actually I think this would be more prevalent if society didn't get in the way.

 

[sandybrooke]

Does Robbie read these posts??

 

[LeaHaven]

There is sooo much to tell you, but for now, I want to post my plans, in case some of you see problems or have suggestions. But if I am going to follow the principle of "you do you," then here is what I would do.

Robbie thinks he will start his new "position" on Monday, Feb. 3, but the truth is, he will start on Saturday, Feb. 1. I want this transition to be an authoritative line-in-the-sand that says, "Leah is the boss." I want him to be reminded of that all day long. So here is what I am thinking.

Last night I got Robbie to measure the circumference around his junk. I told him that I wanted to make absolutely sure that he was using the correct size ring with his cage. But the truth is, I am buying him a new cage. I want something with more metal, something that is more oppressive and domineering. I have already picked one out. (I don't remember the name. I can look it up if you want to know.) I will also purchase a personal trimmer so he can so something about that tangled forest he has growing down there. As it is now, I can hardly see the cage he's got.

I plan to leave these items out on the morning of Feb. 1 with instructions for him to cut back that forest, take a shower, shave, and put on his new cage. Once he is done with all that, I will give him a Walmart list and a grocery list and send him on his way. When he gets back and puts everything away, we will go out for lunch. I am thinking we will have sex that night, but it will be all about me. I don't plan to remove his cage all weekend.

Up until then, I plan for everything to be life as normal. No cage, not much direction from me. Work, eat, and sleep.

It excites me thinking about my plans, very much so, but what do you think? You people have all the experience.

 

[LeaHaven]

Does Robbie read these posts??

No. He does not know I am here.

 

[9to5]

it excite me also. I wish my wife would take that control.
nice to have a new cage to start his new role. at lunch you should discuss more on what it will be like for him in his new role

 

[naughty_stories]

There is sooo much to tell you, but for now, I want to post my plans, in case some of you see problems or have suggestions. But if I am going to follow the principle of "you do you," then here is what I would do.

Robbie thinks he will start his new "position" on Monday, Feb. 3, but the truth is, he will start on Saturday, Feb. 1. I want this transition to be an authoritative line-in-the-sand that says, "Leah is the boss." I want him to be reminded of that all day long. So here is what I am thinking.

Last night I got Robbie to measure the circumference around his junk. I told him that I wanted to make absolutely sure that he was using the correct size ring with his cage. But the truth is, I am buying him a new cage. I want something with more metal, something that is more oppressive and domineering. I have already picked one out. (I don't remember the name. I can look it up if you want to know.) I will also purchase a personal trimmer so he can so something about that tangled forest he has growing down there. As it is now, I can hardly see the cage he's got.

I plan to leave these items out on the morning of Feb. 1 with instructions for him to cut back that forest, take a shower, shave, and put on his new cage. Once he is done with all that, I will give him a Walmart list and a grocery list and send him on his way. When he gets back and puts everything away, we will go out for lunch. I am thinking we will have sex that night, but it will be all about me. I don't plan to remove his cage all weekend.

Up until then, I plan for everything to be life as normal. No cage, not much direction from me. Work, eat, and sleep.

It excites me thinking about my plans, very much so, but what do you think? You people have all the experience.

I think some around the house casual nudity especially while wearing the cage is necessary for both of you is good too.

 

[cascadiabound]

No, he does! He just doesn't want others to see it. He regularly puts himself down in this subject. I used to always contradict him, but over time I could see that I wasn't changing anything. Reading these forums made me realize that feeling "less than" is what he wants. So I've started playing into it. Last night we had a long, long very good talk (I'll talk more about this later), and at one point he said, "I still can't believe that on February 3rd, I'll become a fuckin house boy."

I replied, "You'll become a house boy, alright, but I'm not sure about fuckin part." He blushed 10 shades or red. I patted his leg and added, "We're gonna work on that part though, baby." He did not get upset. He just gave me a smirk.

And by the way, little does he know, but he will start his new "position" on Feb.1, not Feb 3.

I know that in public and around others I have to act like we are a traditional marriage in every aspect. If I talk about paying bills or vehicle registrations or retirement savings or anything like that, I always use the term "we" or "Robbie and I." But there is no "we" on these things. It's all me. Tbh, I'm ok with that.

Ya. I get this. I meant more in relation to people outside of your marriage. It's tricky to be your authentic self and navigate society's expectations of how men are "supposed" to be. Unless the two of you find that you both get off on some version of humiliation kink, I was just thinking about the way the two of you present publicly.

"you do you" is a great mantra to hold as a guiding principle.

 

[policywank]

As with most FLR situations it seems that what Robbie enjoys most is being obedient and submissive even if it is a longways from some of the more intense stuff one finds online. The cock cage is a particularly powerful way to appeal to that aspect of his psyche because it runs so counter to his and your conditioning as to what the traditional male role is supposed to be. But as you continue to explore I think that you will find that there are many many ways to provide him an opportunity to be obedient. It seems like he is embracing this as a kinky addition to your sex life but also a general relationship preference. The kinky appeal will often require you to test his obedience with things to which he is naturally resistant, but even the most simple and innocuous opportunities to be obedient help set the relationship tone. Help him be successful in these things.

I read what you said about him wanting to be "less than". That all ties into certain kinky elements of the FLR. But I also think it may tie back to the core assumption that a non-traditional man is "less than". So, it is worth considering does he really want to be "less than" or does he want to be submissive and obedient and he thinks that intrinsically makes him "less than"? In that case is he simply accepting that as a consequence of his preference for being obedient and submissive? In my FLR I think of leadership somewhat the way I would in a company or other organization. The boss has the authority to direct those under their management. Each party plays their role including obeying the directives of their superiors. But most probably don't see themselves as "less than" their leaders and the good leaders don't think of themselves as "better". Perhaps more able to lead or more experienced or more interested in leading, but not "better". Ideally any feelings he has of being "less than" are in relation to you as his leader and can be channelled towards obedience and submission to you. That way you can manage that to ensure it doesn't equate to him feeling "less than" other men. Quite frankly in spite of how we are conditioned to see genders most men and women are strong followers, not leaders, at least not outside their own home. It takes a strong and open-minded man not to live his life in the delusion that he is or should be in charge just because he has a penis.

It is curious how we tend to see marriages in the context that both partners are equal in authority or if one is in charge it is the man. In almost any other group there are clear leaders and followers and they are no longer restricted by gender. The leader's role is to make good decisions for all parties considered, themselves included. And to do that they need a true understanding of those they lead - what they really desire, not just what they have been told to desire. And they also need to have the capacity to be a bit selfish including enjoying the power you wield. Not to the point of being destructive, but you will be a better leader if you enjoy it. And he will get more satisfaction from being submissive and obedient if he thinks you really enjoy leading him.

I also was raised by very conservative parents. My husband's were not as conservative, but they were very set in their ways. When we were younger there was a natural tendency to justify ourselves to them, especially in the areas where they disagreed with our choices. Over time we learned that was a lost cause. Our approach was simply to not engage in that way anymore. We didn't cut them off or anything. We just adopted an approach of not sharing everything and when we did it was solely a matter of informing. We chose words that did not invite a response. And if they tried to object or stick their noses in we would just change the subject and/or decline to elaborate. It was the same with any friends or family who wanted to second guess us. We simply reserved the right to keep our private life private because as long as you engage they will just keep on disagreeing. You can't force them to come around, but you can exclude them from the decision-making process. Of course that is easier said than done. But we found if you do that in all aspects of your life - not just the ones where they disagree - they start to get the message and back off.

As others have said, now that you are in charge, you are responsible for outcomes. Keep pushing him to explore new aspects of your FLR but always with the same care that you have been taking to date. And if he needs to be buffered from people who would judge him you need to play a big role in that, but not in a way that is emasculating (unless he grows to like that). That can be tricky. You can't just come rushing to stick up for him as if he can't do it himself. You may need to erect a facade that shows a different face to the world outside of your happy home.

You alluded to his desire to have you flirt with other men as well as your own lack of satisfaction with vaginal penetrative sex with him. That can be sensitive territory. Assuming it will come up again and may be something you think about it makes sense to start engaging a bit of that conversation with him. It need not lead to anything. But if it ever does that is best done as a slow burn. Acknowledge that men seek to flirt with you. Acknowledge that you don't always rebuff them and are open-minded enough to play along. Share your own sexual curiosities. And watch his responses carefully.

 

[Yarglenurp]

Brave new world for you two, and I think you should be proud of yourselves for it!

As you two move forward, I will hope you two always keep the lines of communication open and prioritize your love for each other over the opinions of strangers. Just take it one step at a time and recognize that a marriage dynamic is a tool to achieve happiness, not some end goal.

 

[cascadiabound]

Excellent and thoughtful post @policywank.
It articulates very well some of the things I was trying to say earlier.

*standing ovation*

 

[NancyPan]

Good for you, Leah. Some males have a strong need to obey and follow the strong leadership of the Women they love. I am one of those males. I am in an FLR, my wife controls my orgasms and has chosen to no longer allow PIV sex. She has taught me how she wants the chores done and I do my best to please her. I very much look forward to the privilege of worshipping her and giving her pleasure. We are also great friends and companions and do many activities together.

I know that her management of my orgasms changed our lives.

 

[cascadiabound]

I just remembered there was a thread or two around here on gentle femdom /flr

This is one of them. I haven't read through but I would think it might be worth checking out.

If you search using the word "gentle" in the title on the talk side of this forum you'll find about a page of threads.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/lets-talk-about-gentle-femdom.1389900/

 

[LeaHaven]

There are some posts up there I want to respond to, but first I have to tell you about today.

Today was the day Robbie was supposed to give his notice, and I told him to call me when that was done. He did not call until close to lunchtime, and the first thing he said was, "Well....I talked to mama this morning..." As soon as I heard those words, my heart sank and my irritation went to maximum. He went on to tell me, in a very long explanation, that his mom thought that if he was going to quit his job to go back to school, it would make more sense to wait until it was actually time to go back to school. I know exactly what she was doing. Robbie made it clear he was going to quit his job (at least), and since she could not convince him not to, she decided to show the world that she could control him anyway by postponing the whole thing. I thought I was going to scream. I took a deep breath, blew it out slowly, and said, "Robbie, is Terry on the jobsite right now?"

"Yeah."

"When I end this call, you walk straight to Terry and tell him that Friday, January 31, will be your last day. Understood?"

He started, "I just needed some...."

"Robbie! Robbie!" I interrupted. "You walk straight to Terry and tell him, as soon as I end this call. And then call me back. Got it?"

About 10 minutes later he called back. He had given notice. It was done.

When I was on the phone, my best friend, Erin (not her real name) passed by my office and then backed up and looked at me like "Are you ok?" (Erin is my best friend.) I waved her into my office, and she stood there in front of my desk while I was on the phone with Robbie. When I got off the phone, I told her what had happened. (Erin knows everything about Robbie and me. She and I talk. (She doesn't know about the cage, though.)) She said that I should call Robbie's mom (Marilyn) and tell her to mind her own business and STFU. I was not going to do that, but I kept thinking if Marilyn never gets any push-back, she will just keep on interfering.

Around 3:00 PM, I told Erin that I thought I might call Robbie's mom. Erin said, "You NEED to call her." I went to one of the private call rooms, and I called Marilyn. She talked to me like she thought I was the sweetest daughter-in-law in the world. "I'm so glad you called," she said. I thought I would throw up. But I told her that "I TOLD Robbie to quit his job, and I TOLD him to do it today. I don't want to wait another 7 months. I just wanted to let you know that he has given his notice." She was quiet for a few seconds, and I swear I could feel the hate from her burn a hole through my phone.
"I think Robbie can make his own decisions," she said, in a very condescending tone.

I wanted to argue with her, but I was at work, and I didn't want to be on the phone arguing with my mother-in-law for an hour, But then I also thought that if I just ignored her comment, it would dig into her even more, so I responded, "I just wanted to let you know."

She was quiet for about 2 seconds, and then the call disconnected. That BITCH hung up on me! OMFG!!!

I've run out of time, I have to go for now. I will respond to comments and tell you some more some time tomorrow.

 

[cascadiabound]

I think you were wise to directly call her out on it, and even more wise to not get into a debate. Keeping things to "I just wanted to let you know" permits no debate. And the fact she hung up on you is proof that you gave her no place to argue from.

Also... Robbie needs to understand that he can only take direction from one woman in his life. It has to be you. Which means he has to see that he can no longer be subordinate to his mom's wishes. He is yours now. You have to be the person he is led by and everything that entails. He might figure some phrases to use with her. "Thanks for the input". "I/we will think about it." "I/we appreciate your thoughts." Nothing that says he/you agree or that he will do it. Just acknowledge and move on.

Good job on handling her so well.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

On reading the latest updates, I was reminded about how many men still seem to be controlled by their mothers.

It made me think about the traditional western marriage ceremony and the symbolism of the bride being walked down the aisle by her father to be given
to the groom. It makes you wonder if there should be second option where it’s reversed and the mother walks her son and hands him over to the bride his new owner. Maybe this would help them let go.

On a serious note, I completely agree with @cascadiabound you handled it very well, and saying less is often much more effective.

I realize at this point it’s like I’m Robbie’s attorney, just the more you tell us about him the more I like him. As I’ve said before, you’re very lucky to have found somebody like this so early in your life. He clearly has had to deal with a ton of pressure and has picked you over his family time and time again. In my mind that’s somebody that is very strong.

To echo some of the other members, I would not put much stock in him seeing himself or wanting to be lesser than.

One thing you said earlier that bothered me was the going to college story and how his parents didn’t want him to go and neither did he, so that worked. I actually think it’s much more complicated than that. I would suggest that a sensitive eighteen year old boy growing up in an environment that is probably not very understanding is by necessity going to project being fully in favor of a decision that is essentially already made.

As far as your plan is concerned I applaud the leadership you’re showing and I would urge specificity as well as ensuring that he has the sensation of pleasing you. Not all but a lot of submissiveness comes from a desire of obedience and the feeling of pleasing their dominant.

I would encourage you to continue the sessions where you elicit from him more of his interests, with all these changes and your new direction he might begin to open up more, and hopefully provide some limits. You might choose that he doesn’t cum that weekend, but I would ensure that if his behavior warrants it he is rewarded for it and is told that he’s being rewarded. There’s a wonderful feedback loop that happens with a lot of submissive s where their obedience and service to their dominant gives them such a deep satisfaction that what they’re rewarded with is more obedience and service.

Finally, you have a lot of power and a lot of responsibility I would make a tenet for yourself that can act as your North Star, you’ve now been exposed to some of the extreme lengths this direction can take and I strongly believe that all dominants should hold themselves in check. After all the problem with submissive s is that they’re, well, submissive, so when I peruse the forums, nothing makes me happier than a submissive stating what their limits are.

 

[LeaHaven]

As with most FLR situations it seems that what Robbie enjoys most is being obedient and submissive even if it is a longways from some of the more intense stuff one finds online. The cock cage is a particularly powerful way to appeal to that aspect of his psyche because it runs so counter to his and your conditioning as to what the traditional male role is supposed to be. But as you continue to explore I think that you will find that there are many many ways to provide him an opportunity to be obedient. It seems like he is embracing this as a kinky addition to your sex life but also a general relationship preference. The kinky appeal will often require you to test his obedience with things to which he is naturally resistant, but even the most simple and innocuous opportunities to be obedient help set the relationship tone. Help him be successful in these things.

I read what you said about him wanting to be "less than". That all ties into certain kinky elements of the FLR. But I also think it may tie back to the core assumption that a non-traditional man is "less than". So, it is worth considering does he really want to be "less than" or does he want to be submissive and obedient and he thinks that intrinsically makes him "less than"? In that case is he simply accepting that as a consequence of his preference for being obedient and submissive? In my FLR I think of leadership somewhat the way I would in a company or other organization. The boss has the authority to direct those under their management. Each party plays their role including obeying the directives of their superiors. But most probably don't see themselves as "less than" their leaders and the good leaders don't think of themselves as "better". Perhaps more able to lead or more experienced or more interested in leading, but not "better". Ideally any feelings he has of being "less than" are in relation to you as his leader and can be channelled towards obedience and submission to you. That way you can manage that to ensure it doesn't equate to him feeling "less than" other men. Quite frankly in spite of how we are conditioned to see genders most men and women are strong followers, not leaders, at least not outside their own home. It takes a strong and open-minded man not to live his life in the delusion that he is or should be in charge just because he has a penis.

It is curious how we tend to see marriages in the context that both partners are equal in authority or if one is in charge it is the man. In almost any other group there are clear leaders and followers and they are no longer restricted by gender. The leader's role is to make good decisions for all parties considered, themselves included. And to do that they need a true understanding of those they lead - what they really desire, not just what they have been told to desire. And they also need to have the capacity to be a bit selfish including enjoying the power you wield. Not to the point of being destructive, but you will be a better leader if you enjoy it. And he will get more satisfaction from being submissive and obedient if he thinks you really enjoy leading him.

I also was raised by very conservative parents. My husband's were not as conservative, but they were very set in their ways. When we were younger there was a natural tendency to justify ourselves to them, especially in the areas where they disagreed with our choices. Over time we learned that was a lost cause. Our approach was simply to not engage in that way anymore. We didn't cut them off or anything. We just adopted an approach of not sharing everything and when we did it was solely a matter of informing. We chose words that did not invite a response. And if they tried to object or stick their noses in we would just change the subject and/or decline to elaborate. It was the same with any friends or family who wanted to second guess us. We simply reserved the right to keep our private life private because as long as you engage they will just keep on disagreeing. You can't force them to come around, but you can exclude them from the decision-making process. Of course that is easier said than done. But we found if you do that in all aspects of your life - not just the ones where they disagree - they start to get the message and back off.

As others have said, now that you are in charge, you are responsible for outcomes. Keep pushing him to explore new aspects of your FLR but always with the same care that you have been taking to date. And if he needs to be buffered from people who would judge him you need to play a big role in that, but not in a way that is emasculating (unless he grows to like that). That can be tricky. You can't just come rushing to stick up for him as if he can't do it himself. You may need to erect a facade that shows a different face to the world outside of your happy home.

You alluded to his desire to have you flirt with other men as well as your own lack of satisfaction with vaginal penetrative sex with him. That can be sensitive territory. Assuming it will come up again and may be something you think about it makes sense to start engaging a bit of that conversation with him. It need not lead to anything. But if it ever does that is best done as a slow burn. Acknowledge that men seek to flirt with you. Acknowledge that you don't always rebuff them and are open-minded enough to play along. Share your own sexual curiosities. And watch his responses carefully.

Oh gosh, this is a lot to think about! But where you said, "The kinky appeal will often require you to test his obedience with things to which he is naturally resistant," I don't know what those things are.

Where you talk about how you and your husband handled his parents, we just reached the same conclusion! Robbie and I talked about it a few nights ago, and I told him we should use "quiet quitting." Essentially you respond to their directions with, "OK," and then you ignore everything they just said.

You said, "You may need to erect a facade that shows a different face to the world outside of your happy home." That has been going on for some time, but there are these two instances I want to tell everyone about, if I can summon the courage to talk about them.

I will talk about the "less than" and the "other guys" topics in a separate post. There are others commenting on these same issues, and in all honesty, I have been avoiding them.

 

[LeaHaven]

I think you were wise to directly call her out on it, and even more wise to not get into a debate. Keeping things to "I just wanted to let you know" permits no debate. And the fact she hung up on you is proof that you gave her no place to argue from.

Also... Robbie needs to understand that he can only take direction from one woman in his life. It has to be you. Which means he has to see that he can no longer be subordinate to his mom's wishes. He is yours now. You have to be the person he is led by and everything that entails. He might figure some phrases to use with her. "Thanks for the input". "I/we will think about it." "I/we appreciate your thoughts." Nothing that says he/you agree or that he will do it. Just acknowledge and move on.

Good job on handling her so well.

"Robbie needs to understand that he can only take direction from one woman in his life."

Love it!!

 

[NancyPan]

For me, taking direction and obeying my wife (well women in general) has a lot to do with wanting to please, and secure approval from women. Although I do not believe that I am “less than” as a human being, I have accepted that I am sexually inferior (to women and a sexually inferior male). I do better with her leadership in our home, and I have admitted to her that I need her to control my penis (so that I do not masturbate). I feel most secure when I am in a submissive position to her. Yet, in my life outside our home I have functioned in a successful career and interact confidently with both genders. I am quite different at home.

 

[LeaHaven]

I'm sorry you had such an unexpectedly negative experience your first time exploring BDSMLR.

No doubt much of the BDSM content posted there is extreme in nature. (IMHO this mostly reflects the fact that the majority of users there are thirsty sex-starved males seeking kinky wanking material that reflects their increasingly extreme and diverse unrealized sexual kinks... but I digress.)

Please know though that there are quite a few enlightened Women there too, who thoughtfully post images along with their own personal thoughts and reflections on their experiences, discoveries, lessons, and results in their own FLR/FLM "gentle domme" relationships.

Here's one non-extreme example blog that comes quickly to mind and seems relevant to your own situation:
https://jillags.**********/

(I know Lit automatically removed the full URL linked above, but the username is still sufficient to find her blog, if interested.)

I wish I had a more private space to write about all this, because out here I have to be careful about what I say. But if I found a more private space, then I would not know who to let in and who not to let in, so I guess it doesn't matter.

I will take a look at the blog. Thank you!

 

[LeaHaven]

On reading the latest updates, I was reminded about how many men still seem to be controlled by their mothers.

It made me think about the traditional western marriage ceremony and the symbolism of the bride being walked down the aisle by her father to be given
to the groom. It makes you wonder if there should be second option where it’s reversed and the mother walks her son and hands him over to the bride his new owner. Maybe this would help them let go.

On a serious note, I completely agree with @cascadiabound you handled it very well, and saying less is often much more effective.

I realize at this point it’s like I’m Robbie’s attorney, just the more you tell us about him the more I like him. As I’ve said before, you’re very lucky to have found somebody like this so early in your life. He clearly has had to deal with a ton of pressure and has picked you over his family time and time again. In my mind that’s somebody that is very strong.

To echo some of the other members, I would not put much stock in him seeing himself or wanting to be lesser than.

One thing you said earlier that bothered me was the going to college story and how his parents didn’t want him to go and neither did he, so that worked. I actually think it’s much more complicated than that. I would suggest that a sensitive eighteen year old boy growing up in an environment that is probably not very understanding is by necessity going to project being fully in favor of a decision that is essentially already made.

As far as your plan is concerned I applaud the leadership you’re showing and I would urge specificity as well as ensuring that he has the sensation of pleasing you. Not all but a lot of submissiveness comes from a desire of obedience and the feeling of pleasing their dominant.

I would encourage you to continue the sessions where you elicit from him more of his interests, with all these changes and your new direction he might begin to open up more, and hopefully provide some limits. You might choose that he doesn’t cum that weekend, but I would ensure that if his behavior warrants it he is rewarded for it and is told that he’s being rewarded. There’s a wonderful feedback loop that happens with a lot of submissive s where their obedience and service to their dominant gives them such a deep satisfaction that what they’re rewarded with is more obedience and service.

Finally, you have a lot of power and a lot of responsibility I would make a tenet for yourself that can act as your North Star, you’ve now been exposed to some of the extreme lengths this direction can take and I strongly believe that all dominants should hold themselves in check. After all the problem with submissive s is that they’re, well, submissive, so when I peruse the forums, nothing makes me happier than a submissive stating what their limits are.

"I would suggest that a sensitive eighteen year old boy growing up in an environment that is probably not very understanding is by necessity going to project being fully in favor of a decision that is essentially already made."

I have never thought of it that way. Thinking back, I guess it is true for both of us. It makes me wonder if we both need to reconsider how we see the world. Gosh, Purple, this really makes me wonder.

 

[LeaHaven]

About the whole "less than" thing.

Before I had ever heard of Literotica, I knew that Robbie felt "less than" other guys in the bedroom. I also knew, or strongly suspected, that in some really, really weird way, he liked it. He won't talk about sex directly, but he has no problem dropping comments here and there to make all this clear. It is like he is constantly encouraging ME to view him as "less than" other guys in the bedroom. It used to really piss me off, but I have given up that fight. To be honest, I have gotten to where, in a small way, I play along with it. One time (or two or three or), when we were out in public, he has said to me, "That guy over there looks like he'd be a good fuck." I look over, and no matter what I truly think, I respond, "Yeah, he does."

When I found Literotica, reading the forums confirmed everything I had suspected. There are LOTS of guys posting the very same desires. But if a guy cannot have intercourse with his wife for more than like 30 seconds without ejaculating, how could he NOT feel that way?

But in every other aspect of his life, in those "guy" things, Robbie does not feel less than. He can build or fix anything. He likes to work with his hands, and he likes hard work. He may hate his job, but he is very good at it, and when he gave his notice, they made a counter offer and said they would give him his own crew.

People who know him would never view him as "less than." In everything they see, he is "more than." There is a thread on here somewhere that is called something like, "Fucked or Used?" I am 28 years old, and I have never experience either one. So you tell me, is he less than? If he wants me to treat him that way, should I?

I've got to leave for work. I will check in here later. Bye, everyone!

And thank you!!

 

[9to5]

like me to the outside world he is more than, but to you he might enjoy being the less than.
i still hope for the day my wife could be more like you and take more control she already does a little and she does say that this is her pee pee, so he can be of service to you and still be more than to the outside world. but its up to you on when he obeys and in what situation when in public

 

[twister947]

Where you talk about how you and your husband handled his parents, we just reached the same conclusion! Robbie and I talked about it a few nights ago, and I told him we should use "quiet quitting." Essentially you respond to their directions with, "OK," and then you ignore everything they just said.

Sounds like passive aggression...don't know if that's good or bad, here.