Latest poll: 60% of British People think that some rape victims were "asking for it".

[NoJo]

Latest poll: 60% of British People think that some rape victims were "asking for it".

That means, according to my calculations, that at least 1 in 5 British women share that opinion.

I know that some women act or dress so as to attract sexual attention. But is it possible to "invite" rape by your behavior/dress?

 

[shereads]

60% is only the number who didn't mind admitting it.

Even scarier is when judges explain light sentences for convicted rapists by referring to the victim's behavior or attire. That still happens.

 

[JamesSD]

Where'd you get the 60% number? When I did a google search I only found one that said 30%...?

I'm curious how they worded the question. If it did use the word "some" I could see why some people would say yes. If you asked me "Are some cars pink?" I'd say "yes", even though the vast majority are not. 1%, 0.5%, or less of a group can still be called "some". Surveys need to be really careful in how they word things.

 

[rgraham666]

But is it possible to "invite" rape by your behavior/dress?

In a single word, NO!!!!

And if I catch a rapist going about his 'fun', I'll do to him what Hartigan did to That Yellow Bastard in Sin City.

To whit, rip his equipment off with my bare hands.

 

[SeaCat]

I somehow think I don't need to say what I think of this, nor what I think of the peple who feel that way. Hmmmmmmmm, maybe this little Kitty should move to England for a little while?

Cat
JK

 

[Alex756]

Where'd you get the 60% number? When I did a google search I only found one that said 30%...?

I'm curious how they worded the question. If it did use the word "some" I could see why some people would say yes. If you asked me "Are some cars pink?" I'd say "yes", even though the vast majority are not. 1%, 0.5%, or less of a group can still be called "some". Surveys need to be really careful in how they word things.

Ah but see thats the disagreement, its not like asking as some car's pink, it's like asking does buying some types of cars mean you are asking to be in a horrific car accident.

The point is -no one- is inviting to be raped. Putting the victim on trial unfortuantly often works.

~Alex

 

[Guest]

Horrifying.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think I must have read the article JamesSD mentions - the figure was around 30%. However, I do recall in the article I read that the phrasing was not "inviting rape" but "partly responsible." This caught my attention because I felt that it made a difference in how I interpreted the question. It may very well be that James and I are talking about a different article to the one SubJoe read, but I think that the phrasing makes a difference.

If a person were to walk through the worst part of our town at 2 AM dead drunk in an Armani suit, Rolex watch, and a grand in cash clipped to his belt with a diamond money clip, I certainly would not say that he was inviting a mugging, nor that he deserved it. However, I would say that he bore some responsibility for his poor judgement. Similary, if he left his Lexus parked in front of the bar unlocked with his four thousand dollar stereo system in it and his laptop on the seat, he would not be inviting a break-in, but his insurance company would undoubtedly argue that he bore part of the blame for the event if it occurred.

No one invites rape, and no one deserves rape. However, I do believe that there is such a thing as good judgement and as poor judgement, and that responsible people must use good judgement in order to avoid dangerous situations. A youn lady who drinks until she passes out at a fraternity party is not asking to be raped, and any individual who took advantage of her in that condition should rightly be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But her own poor judgement would be part of what put her in a very dangerous position, and for that she sadly might very well suffer. Expecting others to be responsible does not absolve us of our own responsibilities; whatever we hope and expect of others, it is well to be honest about the risks of some behaviors and to avoid them accordingly.

Shanglan

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I don't think anything invites rape itself, but I do think that some dress and behavior can invite the attention of a rapist.

Please don't take that wrong. I'm not condoning rape in any way, shape or form. I'm just saying that there are times when a woman is provocative looking/acting on purpose. That draws attention, and at times it can draw the attention of the wrong person.

 

[NoJo]

Where'd you get the 60% number? When I did a google search I only found one that said 30%...?

I'm curious how they worded the question. If it did use the word "some" I could see why some people would say yes. If you asked me "Are some cars pink?" I'd say "yes", even though the vast majority are not. 1%, 0.5%, or less of a group can still be called "some". Surveys need to be really careful in how they word things.

Sorry, I did a "literotica" (exaggerated the proportions by 200%).

So I guess that could mean that all of those 30% were male, and the women polled just -ed at the questions, as most women I know would have done. Phew.

 

[MissBri]

 

[Guest]

 

[rgraham666]

Actually, this is a rather hot topic at another forum where I post (159 replies to the opening post) and the really scary thing is that there are two young men (one in his twenties and one in his thirties) agreeing that women who dress provocatively, flirt heavily and/or drink heavily are inviting rape.

I thought this attitude would have died in the 1950's.

Nothing wrong with that attitude that loosening a few teeth won't fix.

 

[Wolk]

I know that some women act or dress so as to attract sexual attention. But is it possible to "invite" rape by your behavior/dress?

Of course it's possible. First of all, it's possible to invite rape in a sense that you all are probably thinking, an actual horrible moral and legal crime. Doing certain things will make one be seen as an object of sexual desire and if the person who sees you as such is not decent enough, they might just rape you. Doesn't make it right, of course, but it wouldn't have happened if they weren't teasing. So, yes, it's possible to invite this terrible fate upon oneself.

Also, look at what's considered 'rape' nowadays. The legal definition is so messed up that it is no longer in line with a lot of people's moral definitions. You go out together for a while, then meet, have consentual sex and a month later after you break up your partner wants to get back at you. Suddenly they claim they weren't consenting at the time at all and you tricked them into it. Because they had a glass of champaigne that evening the court agrees it's rape and you're done for. Is it possible to invite THAT kind of rape? Sure, by saying "oh, lover, please take me!" after having a sip at anything harder than milk.

So, even if what I said in the first paragraph is somewhat ambiguous, it's a well-known fact that in today's justice system many "rape victims" are of the kind I described in second paragraph, and, yes, some of them were "asking for it" because neither them nor their partner could even imagine that consentual sex can be classified as "rape".

 

[Wolk]

Nothing wrong with that attitude that loosening a few teeth won't fix.

Too feisty.

It's not a matter of excusing the behavior of rapists, but of recognizing the connection. Are you prepared to claim that an old nun has the same chance of being targeted by sexual predators as a provocatively dressed, flirty beauty? It's absurd. Of course there is a connection. Why do people get so upset when it's pointed out? Nobody says that by dressing sexy you automatically start "deserving" to be raped. It's still a horrible crime. But to deny the obvious connection is silly.

I mean, come on. Imagine you need to go through a bad part of town at night and you have a choice of wearing baggy jeans and sweater or a sheer outfit consisting of stockings, corset, garter belt and nothing else. Which one do you wear? The answer is obvious, right?

 

[oggbashan]

It all depends on the question

Most rape in the UK is committed by someone the victim knows.

If the victim dresses provocatively, behaves provocatively, gets drunk with her assailant, teases him, consents to sex and then says 'No' at the last second - then I would say that she had partly contributed to the rape by her behaviour. That does not make the rape any less wrong. It means that I think that the victim behaved unwisely and took unnecessary risks.

If a woman, no matter how dressed, is walking down a street and is attacked by strangers then I do not think she should be considered as in any way responsible for their actions.

The definition of rape covers everything from violent armed assault by a stranger to withdrawal of consent to consensual sex at the last possible moment when both parties inhibitions are swamped with alcohol, drugs and sexual attraction.

If a 'victim' freely and willingly consents to intercourse and then makes an accusation of rape to mollify relations' anger, or to punish the partner for a fancied slight, or if no intercourse had happened and the 'rape' is wholly fabricated - then I think that her punishment should be equivalent to that the 'rapist' would have got if convicted including registering as a 'sex offender'.

The answer to the question - Did the woman do something that 'justified' the rape or mitigated the defendant's guilt? That should depend on the circumstances of each case. If the victim gave consent and then withdrew that consent - that could be included in a plea for mitigation of the sentence but should NOT affect the conviction.

Og

 

[Guest]

The connection, Wolk? That is incredibly simplistic.

I don't have the statistics, but I would bet the majority of women who are raped are not dressed provocatively.

Rape isn't about sex, sweetheart. It's about power.

And every time I read about a 70-year-old woman being beaten and raped, or a disabled person, or a mentally handicapped person, or a mother with two young kids nearby . . .

 

[Wolk]

That's why there's the word "some" in there, sweetsubsaharahh. Of course it's not a factor in the rape of a beaten old woman. But I challenge you once again to walk around wearing the outfit I described if you believe it will have no impact at all on your chances of being raped.

Well, you know, don't actually do it. I'm not wishing for you to get raped, God forbid. This is only for the sake of argument.

Simplistic? Yes, of course. It was a simple question and I don't presume that this covers the entire complex issue. The question was wheather some victims engage in behaviors that invite rape. I further clarify "invite" as "increasing one's chances of". Then the answer is an obvious yes.

Please, everyone, don't get on my case for percieved conclusions I didn't actually make. I'm not saying anything more than "there is sometimes a connection". It's hard to disagree with that for any reasonable person.

 

[Guest]

Most rape in the UK is committed by someone the victim knows.

If the victim dresses provocatively, behaves provocatively, gets drunk with her assailant, teases him, consents to sex and then says 'No' at the last second - then I would say that she had partly contributed to the rape by her behaviour. That does not make the rape any less wrong. It means that I think that the victim behaved unwisely and took unnecessary risks.

If a woman, no matter how dressed, is walking down a street and is attacked by strangers then I do not think she should be considered as in any way responsible for their actions.

The definition of rape covers everything from violent armed assault by a stranger to withdrawal of consent to consensual sex at the last possible moment when both parties inhibitions are swamped with alcohol, drugs and sexual attraction.

If a 'victim' freely and willingly consents to intercourse and then makes an accusation of rape to mollify relations' anger, or to punish the partner for a fancied slight, or if no intercourse had happened and the 'rape' is wholly fabricated - then I think that her punishment should be equivalent to that the 'rapist' would have got if convicted including registering as a 'sex offender'.

The answer to the question - Did the woman do something that 'justified' the rape or mitigated the defendant's guilt? That should depend on the circumstances of each case. If the victim gave consent and then withdrew that consent - that could be included in a plea for mitigation of the sentence but should NOT affect the conviction.

Og

Og, I think you're right on with your points.

I remember having a huge discussion with a group of friends as an undergrad. Some of the guys were very angry, saying how unfair the whole thing was, women giving mixed signals, etc. In essence, what was a guy to do?

The females in the group gave this answer. Two people go out for the evening together. There is much reciprocal flirting, they enjoy dinner and a show, whatever. AFTER, they go back to someone's place, they plan to have sex, they're naked and he's getting ready to penetrate. If she says NO, however, even at that moment, he must stop or it is rape.

Call her a bitch and a cock-tease, and it certainly sounds as if she is. But just because he paid for dinner and a show doesn't mean she owes him sex. And if she says no, despite what they were about to do, he does not have the right to continue.

It was amazing to me how many of the college men were outraged about this. They were also annoyed that after spending a few bucks on their date they were not guaranteed sex.

Isn't that incredible? We told the guys to pay for a hooker if they wished, but don't expect to get laid just because you bought a girl a chicken sandwich at Applebees.

 

[arienette]

I was raped when I was 12, by my best friend's boyfriend. Went to court, and his lawyer freaked me out... I plea bargained. He was from Barbados and was supposed to be kept out of the US for 5 years. I saw him in my hometown less than 3 years later. I flipped out and almost didn't recover. He's lucky I didn't take my friend up on his offer; the one who mentioned that his parents, bikers, could have the guy taken, knocked out, to wake with "RAPIST" tattooed on his forehead.

Most people who actually bring a rape to the authorities do plea bargain and almost, if not all of the time, the rapist doesn't do the amount of time served in any case.

It's real scary, but people who are caught with a dime bag of weed do more time in jail than a rapist.

And NO rape is never "invited".

 

[ABSTRUSE]

It's not about the sex, it's about control.

No means no. I know of women who were in consensual D/s situations, but someone crossed the line and it wasn't consenual anymore. It was rape...and these bastards get off because to plea bargain keeps the victim from having to become a victim all over again.

Also, how many children dress provocativly? None that I know of yet they are raped.

 

[Guest]

No one "invites" rape. It is not about sex. Look at the high incidence of children being raped.

From http://www.911rape.org/

Statistics

In a study conducted by the Department of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, researchers interviewed 8,000 women and 8,000 men. Using a definition of rape that includes forced vaginal, oral, and anal intercourse, the survey found that 1 in 6 women had experienced an attempted rape or a completed rape.

At the time they were raped:

22% were under the age of twelve
54% were under the age of eighteen
83% were under the age of twenty-five

In the same study, 1 in 33 men had experienced a sexual assault.

Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women, U.S. Department of Justice, 1998


In the Rape in America study, 60% of the women who reported being raped were under 18 years old:

29.3% were less than 11 years old
32.3% were between 11 and 17
22.2% were between 18 and 24
7.1% were between 25 and 29
6.1% were older than 29
3.0% age was not available

Rape in America: A Report to the Nation, National Victim Center, 1992


Youths 12-17 are two to three times more likely to be sexually assaulted than adults.

National Crime Victimization Survey, 2000

Acquaintance rape is much more prevalent than stranger rape. In a study published by the Department of Justice, 82% of the victims were raped by someone they knew (acquaintance/friend, intimate, relative) and 18% were raped by a stranger.

From a report on Violence Against Women based on data from the National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1995

In the Rape in America study, 80% of the girls and women who were raped were victimized by someone they knew.

Rape in America: A Report to the Nation, National Victim Center, 1992

In the United States, a rape is reported about once every five minutes.

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 2000

Rape is called "the most underreported violent crime in America." In a large national survey of American women, only 16% of the rapes (approximately one out of every six) had ever been reported to the police.

Rape in America: A Report to the Nation, National Victim Center, 1992

Many surveys have been conducted to determine the prevalence and incidence of rape and sexual assault. The differences in findings across these various surveys are related to how rape and sexual assault are defined, characteristics of the sample selected for the study, screening questions, interviewer training and techniques, and other methodological and procedural issues. However, in virtually every victimization survey conducted, the number of unreported rapes and sexual assaults far exceeds those that are reported to authorities.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thank you Sarah.

 

[Guest]

Thank you Sarah.

 

[Guest]

In a related story, this is from today's headlines.

One in six women suffers from domestic violence
WHO By Stephanie Nebehay and Patricia Reaney
1 hour, 8 minutes ago

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051124/ts_nm/violence_dc

GENEVA/LONDON (Reuters) - One in six women worldwide suffers domestic violence -- some battered during pregnancy -- yet many remain silent about the assaults, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Thursday.

In its first global study, the WHO also said physically- or sexually-abused women were more likely to suffer longer-term health problems, including distress and suicide attempts.

The United Nations agency called for changing behavior through education programs and training more health workers and police to investigate signs of mistreatment.

"Women are more at risk from violence involving people they know at home than from strangers in the street. There is a feeling that the home is a safe haven and that pregnancy is a very protected period, but that is not the case," WHO's director-general Lee Jong-Wook told a news conference.

"Domestic violence remains largely hidden."

The Women's Health and Domestic Violence Against Women study is based on interviews with more than 24,000 women in 10 countries, ranging from Japan and Thailand to Ethiopia and Peru.

It paints a harrowing picture of broken bones, bruises, burns, cracked skulls, dislocated jaws, rape and fear. Husbands or intimate partners are the main perpetrators.

A Peruvian woman lost twins after being hit in the stomach by the father of her unborn babies, while a Brazilian sleeps in a locked bedroom to protect herself from the partner who has threatened to shoot her, according to the report.

EVERY 18 SECONDS

"Every 18 seconds, somewhere, a woman suffers violence or maltreatment ... We must put an end to this shameful practice," said Spain's health minister Elena Salgado, current president of WHO's annual health assembly.

Domestic violence can be sparked by dinner being late, not finishing the housework on time, disobeying or refusing to have sex, the report said. In many cases women agree that a man is justified in beating his wife under certain circumstances.

In terms of symptoms -- pain, dizziness, mental distress, miscarriages -- the findings across the 15 urban and rural settings were "remarkably consistent," according to Claudia Garcia-Moreno, the study's coordinator.

"Whether you are a cosmopolitan woman in Sao Paulo, Brazil or Japan, or a rural woman in Ethiopia or Peru, the association between violence and poor health remains," she told reporters.

"The striking thing we found is the degree that this violence still remains hidden. Between one-fifth and two-thirds of women interviewed had never spoken before to anyone of the experience of their partner's violence," she added.

This sense of helplessness was "a torture in itself."

Other countries covered in the 7-year study, issued on the eve of the U.N.'s International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, included Samoa, Bangladesh, Namibia, Tanzania and Serbia and Montenegro.

Between 4 and 12 percent of women who had been pregnant reported being beaten during pregnancy -- more than 90 percent by the father of the unborn child, according to the report.

"Most of the violence that pregnant women were experiencing is a continuation of the violence going on before," said Lori Heise, a member of the core research team from the Washington-based group PATH.