Just shocking writing... professionally.

[Altissimus]

I watched Mission Impossible: Fallout recently. With minimal spoilers (it's a good film, not withstanding what I'm about to say) there's a scene at the end where the hook catches in the stone. A bit later, it slips and catches again.

I can just imagine this scene in a D&D game:
Dungeon Master: "You want to do what? That's like a one in sixty-four million... okay fine... roll a natural 20... no, roll six consecutive natural 20s, and you manage it."
Player: "Sure." Rolls a 20. Rolls a 20. Rolls a 20. Rolls a 20. Rolls a 20. Rolls a 20.
DM: "FML."

As a writer, I watch that scene and think that if I ever included something like that in a story, I'd be lucky to get away with simply a 'back'. More likely some 1s would follow, and no doubt I'd have a bunch of comments along the lines of "Nice story, except for the hook part. Totally unrealistic." I've seen far worse on far less deserving plot points.

How come Hollywood writers get away with such crap, when there were far more plausible ways of generating the same tension? This isn't deus ex machina, it's just completely improbable. It is, in short, lazy, crap writing that only flies because 'it's an action film' with an over-paid surprisingly-short producer.

There's numerous examples of this kinda thing in mainstream TV and films.

Does your experience as a writer affect how you perceive others' writing in what you read and watch?

 

[Djmac1031]

I think movie goers stopped caring about reality and the laws of physics a long time ago.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Yes, experience influences experience, when it comes to writing.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the writers though. Except for a few small independent films, it's rare that a writer has that much influence on the final product.

What ends up on the screen is the result of a long chain of people, each influencing their little portion of the film.

Things like you describe are ultimately crap filmmaking, but not necessarily crap writing.

 

[Duleigh]

There's numerous examples of this kinda thing in mainstream TV and films.

Terry Pratchett had a LOT of fun with this kind of nonsense and came up with the magical truism:
"A million to one shot pays off nine times out of ten."
Would I sink so low as to use this to my advantage in a story?
Stay tuned.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I think movie goers stopped caring about reality and the laws of physics a long time ago.

Witness every single Fast/Furious movie (except maybe the first one?)

Action movies seem not to need any plot, character development or consistent world building. Pure escapist entertainment. I dunno, it's not my cuppa, but I understand the need for escapism.

 

[AchtungNight]

Writing fanfics definitely gets a writer into movie tropes. I wouldn’t have all the crazy chase sequences, fight scenes, overly successful male and female charmers, and so forth in my stories without the influence of Hollywood.

The Mission Impossible franchise is sadly just Tom Cruise fanfic at this point. I agree with that. Hope Hayley Atwell finds better future projects the way Keri Russell ultimately did. She deserves them. Agent Carter was the best part of Captain America.

 

[Djmac1031]

I went and saw The Marvels yesterday and was blown away at how bad the writing was.

Spoilers, if you care:

Throughout the movie, the three lead characters switch places whenever they use their powers. Why? Some convoluted connection between their abilities, never fully explained.

Eventually they figure this out, and work on a system where they only use their powers to change place when they want to.

Meanwhile all three are using powers constantly but only change place when they're supposed to.

What specific power causes them to swap? Unknown.

How do they know when to swap and when not to? Unknown

It's like the writers just didn't care and figured the audience would be too enthralled with all the CGI action to actually care how anything actually worked or why.

 

[HeyAll]

Not sure if this applies, but what really gets me is when characters tell each other things they so obviously already know.

"Come on, we're brothers."

"Come on, you're a Nobel Prize winner."

Bothers me every single time when it's that blatant.

 

[Euphony]

I think movie goers stopped caring about reality and the laws of physics a long time ago.

Bingo.

Any medium is as much or more about the agreement between the audience and the artist.

Popcorn flickers agree you can bend the laws of space time so long as big boom go boomer than any boom before (see ALL Fast Furious movies)

Musicians can lip sync or half ass a concert b/c it's not as much about musical clarity as when you have Ibuds in. You're having "an experience."

Talk shows/network comedies have professional comedians do crowd work to prime their audiences to laugh when they're supposed to. Conditioning, group pressure, and the joke are all sharing the work load.

Hell, you can shit in a half a cantaloupe and call it "performance art" if you can herd the right, pretensions audience.

You actually have more freedom in writing than you might think so long as you set tone early and hold to it.

Lit category expectations make for more upstream swimming but I bet you could go pretty outlandish and not be obliterated in the comments if you establish early and mercilessly hold to it.

 

[AchtungNight]

I agree on the Marvels. The three leads are nice to look at, but I’m not impressed with the writing enough to see it in the theater. Streaming is a maybe if I’m bored.

Fast & Furious is still enough to keep me entertained. Borderline. But they seriously need to give a good explanation for resurrecting Gal Gadot.

 

[Duleigh]

I'm surprised that anyone is still watching F&F movies after "Nerds In Space" in Nausious Nine or whatever it was called.

 

[Djmac1031]

But they seriously need to give a good explanation for resurrecting Gal Gadot.

Simple: she's easy on the eyes, and her stint as Wonder Woman is on hold.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I'm surprised that anyone is still watching F&F movies after "Nerds In Space" in Nausious Nine or whatever it was called.

Just to be clear (not that I'm pretentious or judging) I've only ever seen the first one, on cable, for free. But just ads for the others made me laugh because, you know, cars can't actually do any of that shit.

 

[Euphony]

Simple: she's easy on the eyes, and her stint as Wonder Woman is on hold.

F9 goes to SPACE in a car husk wearing flapper era diving gear and all the fans demanding answers on a woman *maybe* not being dead, in franchise that loves regularly faking/hiding/cheating death, when she should.

 

[lovecraft68]

Kind of along the lines of my what's off here thread. Suspension of belief is necessary in an action movie. No one can do these things.
What I find annoying is the trend of toxic you tubers like Critical drinker who will blow a load over an insane Tom Cruise stunt then whine that Megan Fox wouldn't be able to throw a karate kick in Expendables 4.

Its all fake and for fun...as long as a guy does it.

I don't think any of this applies in my strictly erotica material other than how long a guy can last or every woman capable of deep throat etc...

In my horror series I have the built in excuse of supernatural abilities and the Lefay coven carrying the blood of their demonic father in their veins meaning they're not 100% human and thus are capable of some things ordinary people couldn't pull off.

 

[Wifetheif]

My most recent favorite bit of movie dialogue comes from a Neil Breen movie. "You are my sister's daughter. You are my niece!" Thank you Captain Obvious!

 

[Duleigh]

Suspension of belief is necessary in an action movie.

No it's not. Suspension of belief is for the lowest common denominator. Good writing and great cinimatography is what's needed, action movies of a bygone era showed GREAT STORIES first and foremost. Movies like the Guns of Naverone, it wasn't a real story but it was based on real capabilities. There was no "Froonium" or "Unobtainium" to save the day, it was men doing what men could do and it was based on a real campaign in WWII. A Proper action movie teases the imagination and tries to bring the amazing to the screen and doesn't need nonsense like the MOST POWERFUL WOMAN IN THE UNIVERSE stuck doing the laundry or whatever crap reviewers like the Critical Drinker expose. The African Queen simply needed a great story and great actors and is far superior to anything filmed today.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Good writing and great cinimatography is what's needed, action movies of a bygone era showed GREAT STORIES first and foremost

I haven't seen it in ages, but The Towering Inferno immediately came to my mind as a good, old action movie that had at least a semi plausible plot and climax and some good writing.
But, maybe '70s disaster movies are just a different genre. And then of course, there's The Poseidon Adventure

 

[Rustyoznail]

Debunking movie physics kept Mythbusters going for years.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

How come Hollywood writers get away with such crap, when there were far more plausible ways of generating the same tension? This isn't deus ex machina, it's just completely improbable. It is, in short, lazy, crap writing that only flies because 'it's an action film' with an over-paid surprisingly-short producer.

Like in Mad Max Fury road when they winch the rig to the 'tree thing'. With fully rooted leverage they not only not budge but actually begin to uproot the tree. So they continue winching and with now with far less leverage than before somehow manage to haul the rig out of the sand. I've watched my dad pull stumps out of the yard. Physics doesn't work that way.

 

[Wifetheif]

I haven't seen it in ages, but The Towering Inferno immediately came to my mind as a good, old action movie that had at least a semi plausible plot and climax and some good writing.
But, maybe '70s disaster movies are just a different genre. And then of course, there's The Poseidon Adventure

70's disaster films had their own problems. My dad went on for hours about how illogical this bit of plotting was in "Earthquake" George Kennedy wants to commandeer Charlton Heston's jeep. Chuck informs George that he won't be able to handle it as it has a specially designed clutch. George proceeds to ignore him. Chuck's jeep rolls backward about twenty feet. Chuck finishes his sentence by saying his special clutch has THREE backward speeds. My dad, who was a huge car buff came back to that for days after we came home from the theater. "Why would you need more than one reverse speed? How many times does someone challenge you to race in reverse?" After a while, we said, "Let it go, Dad!"

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There is hardly any movie or show that doesn't break the laws of physics in the most obvious way. It is always a huge cringe moment for me, so I usually refrain from watching action movies.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I don't think any of this applies in my strictly erotica material other than how long a guy can last or every woman capable of deep throat etc...

And every guy can time his orgasm exactly with hers - because he's just that good.

And the girl always cums when she climaxes - because he's just that good.

And she can't not cum, because there is of course only one single solitary factor in sex that makes a girl climax/cum and that factor is the man's performance - and without question, he's just that good.

Ahh the the male fantasy and the myths that it is constructed on.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

70's disaster films had their own problems.

Yeah, even as I was writing that comment, I was thinking about the implausibility of using a rooftop water tower to even partially douse an fire that had engulfed an entire skyscraper.

But, I don't mind relatively minor things not being possible, or even major things as long as they're consistent within the world created. But if the writer/director/editor can't even keep the logic of the world they created intact, then I can't enjoy it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Well, let's not forget that movies are fiction, just as our stories are. But whether it's an action movie, SF movie, or a porn movie, it shouldn't flat-out treat the audience like morons who will chew up everything, no matter if it's Tom Cruise doing one of his ridiculous macho bullshit stunts, or if it's some kick-ass girl punching a guy twice her weight and sending him flying ten yards into a wall but without being subject to the reactionary force and staying glued to her spot, or even a porn movie mom, who sees her son without a shirt and the first thing that comes to her mind is that she immediately wants to fuck him.

All of this crap doesn't work for me at all, and that is why it's been years since I've enjoyed a movie or tv-show... or porn