Judaism AMA

[GuiltyCowboy]

Terrorist kills two at Yom Kippur services in Manchester.

This is what “globalize the intifada” looks like.

Well, it's very sad.

I fully understand the instinct but I'm not sure that tying every act of random, terrorist violence to the 'intifada' is correct or useful.

The main objective is to make sure that civilians can go about their lives in complete safety, wherever they live, whatever faith they practice. Would it help to achieve that objective if you could magically make it impossible for anyone to use the words 'globalize the intifada'?

Not really. People are still going to be freaked out by people who are different to them. People are still going to be angry at the current Israeli government and Hamas. People will still push their interpretation of what exactly constitutes an 'intifada' - or 'throwing off' in English, for those who are unaware - for their own political ends.

The 'intifada' could refer to the actions of today's murder in Manchester or it could refer to those who peacefully protest for the rights of mistreated Palestinians. But one is on the side of (totally misguided) violence and the other is not.

It's important to remember that the division is not between Jews on one side and Muslims on the other. Or Israelis on one side and Palestinians on the other. The real division is between those who want and benefit from violence and those who don't want it.

That second camp - the non-violent camp - is full of millions and millions of Israelis and Palestinians and other Jews and Muslims.

What I'm really trying to say is that, ultimately, to blame today's murder on the slogan 'globalize the intifada' is to split that peaceful camp apart a bit. It's not a useful slogan, whether you admire it or blame it - except for those on the side of violence.

Anyway, I come in peace. Especially on this day. Just offering my thoughts.

 

[Justplainjeff]

I'll start. Are there any poor Jews?

You're a fucking idiot if you believe all Jews are wealthy. Some of us are comfortable, but worked our asses off to get there. And, yes, there are Jews on welfare, too.

 

[Justplainjeff]

Terrorist kills two at Yom Kippur services in Manchester.

This is what “globalize the intifada” looks like.

This attack in the Muslim controlled city of Manchester must make King Chuckie the happiest Anti-Semite in the United Kingdom.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Well, it's very sad.

I fully understand the instinct but I'm not sure that tying every act of random, terrorist violence to the 'intifada' is correct or useful.

The main objective is to make sure that civilians can go about their lives in complete safety, wherever they live, whatever faith they practice. Would it help to achieve that objective if you could magically make it impossible for anyone to use the words 'globalize the intifada'?

Not really. People are still going to be freaked out by people who are different to them. People are still going to be angry at the current Israeli government and Hamas. People will still push their interpretation of what exactly constitutes an 'intifada' - or 'throwing off' in English, for those who are unaware - for their own political ends.

The 'intifada' could refer to the actions of today's murder in Manchester or it could refer to those who peacefully protest for the rights of mistreated Palestinians. But one is on the side of (totally misguided) violence and the other is not.

It's important to remember that the division is not between Jews on one side and Muslims on the other. Or Israelis on one side and Palestinians on the other. The real division is between those who want and benefit from violence and those who don't want it.

That second camp - the non-violent camp - is full of millions and millions of Israelis and Palestinians and other Jews and Muslims.

What I'm really trying to say is that, ultimately, to blame today's murder on the slogan 'globalize the intifada' is to split that peaceful camp apart a bit. It's not a useful slogan, whether you admire it or blame it - except for those on the side of violence.

Anyway, I come in peace. Especially on this day. Just offering my thoughts.

The first and second intifadas were acts of terrorist violence directed against Israeli Jews—suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants, stabbings on the street. Calling for violence against Jews to be globalized is evil.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

The first and second intifadas were acts of terrorist violence directed against Israeli Jews—suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants, stabbings on the street. Calling for violence against Jews to be globalized is evil.

You can make a list of all the violence that one side has perpetrated against the other. And then do the same for the other side. And then what? Where will that get you? It will mostly give you an excuse to use violence to justify more violence. I don't think that's what you want.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You can make a list of all the violence that one side has perpetrated against the other. And then do the same for the other side. And then what? Where will that get you? It will mostly give you an excuse to use violence to justify more violence. I don't think that's what you want.

The violence will end when the Arabs stop trying to commit genocide against the Jews. Israel has already demonstrated it can make peace with its neighbors, and can function as a multicultural democracy where Jews and Muslims live together in harmony.

 

[Saint_Ann]

You're a fucking idiot if you believe all Jews are wealthy. Some of us are comfortable, but worked our asses off to get there. And, yes, there are Jews on welfare, too.

Joking ( kinda).

 

[coati]

The violence will end when the Arabs stop trying to commit genocide against the Jews. Israel has already demonstrated it can make peace with its neighbors, and can function as a multicultural democracy where Jews and Muslims live together in harmony.

The bombing of civilians will continue until morale improves.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

The violence will end when the Arabs stop trying to commit genocide against the Jews. Israel has already demonstrated it can make peace with its neighbors, and can function as a multicultural democracy where Jews and Muslims live together in harmony.

55 innocent people were killed today thanks to the war in Israel and Palestine, as far as I can see.

You've piped up to highlight and mourn the death of only 2 of those people.

If you are only concerned with violence against some people then you're not really against violence, are you?

And that's why I'm out.

 

[Justplainjeff]

Joking ( kinda).

Your joking (kinda) comment stokes the rampant hatred of Jews in this country. I hope you're happy giving the anti-Semites more ammunition. NOT KIDDING!

 

[Saint_Ann]

Your joking (kinda) comment stokes the rampant hatred of Jews in this country. I hope you're happy giving the anti-Semites more ammunition. NOT KIDDING!

In every stereotype there rings a tiny bell of truth.

 

[Justplainjeff]

And conversely, in stereotypes like these, hatred thrives!

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

55 innocent people were killed today, as far as I can see.

You've piped up to highlight and mourn the death of only 2 of those people.

If you are only concerned with violence against some people then you're not really against violence, are you?

And that's why I'm out.

I don’t know what other deaths you’re talking about. This thread is about Judaism. Two Jews were murdered in a antisemitic attack in Manchester today. Chants of “Globalize the intifada” are calls for exactly this sort of racist violence.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

If this is a thread about Judaism then it's as much about Jews murdering people simply for who they are as it is about Jews being murdered simply for who they are. Brutal as that sounds.

Two Jews were murdered in Manchester today. [This is where you stop]. [But this is where the rest of the world continues on]. Four siblings were killed while collecting firewood in al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza. A grandfather, his four sons and a grandson, were killed when the Israeli military struck a food store.

If you’re serious about stopping 2 of those deaths then, whether you like it or not, you’re going to have to be serious about stopping the other 53 too.

I’m on the side of none of those 55 people dying. If you can’t bring yourself to join this side then please don’t try to persuade me that I should care more about Jewish people than I should about Muslim people. Or indeed the other way around.

You can read more here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lled-in-fresh-wave-of-israeli-attacks-on-gaza

 

[Lazaran]

I don’t know what other deaths you’re talking about. This thread is about Judaism. Two Jews were murdered in a antisemitic attack in Manchester today. Chants of “Globalize the intifada” are calls for exactly this sort of racist violence.

You need to create a new “both sides” sign to deal with those who try to equate Israel defending itself by conducting national security operations with genocidal Arabs / Muslims & genocidal right wing nazis conducting premeditated terror attacks against Israel / Jews.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Lazaran]

If this is a thread about Judaism then it's as much about Jews murdering people simply for who they are as it is about Jews being murdered simply for who they are. Brutal as that sounds.

Two Jews were murdered in Manchester today. [This is where you stop]. [But this is where the rest of the world continues on]. Four siblings were killed while collecting firewood in al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza. A grandfather, his four sons and a grandson, were killed when the Israeli military struck a food store.

If you’re serious about stopping 2 of those deaths then, whether you like it or not, you’re going to have to be serious about stopping the other 53 too.

You can read more here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lled-in-fresh-wave-of-israeli-attacks-on-gaza

Um, Hamas (and Iran, etc) bear MOAR responsibility for those 53 deaths than Israel, but, sure…

Same, same…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Um, Hamas (and Iran, etc) bear MOAR responsibility for those 53 deaths than Israel, but, sure…

Same, same…



We. Told. Them. So.

You're putting Hamas (and Iran etc) on one side and the current Israeli government on the other side.

They're both on the side of violence. Both on the side of killing.

There are millions of Israelis and Palestinians (and Iranians) who are not on that side, who neither advocate nor justify killing other people.

Those are the real two sides.

The only people responsible for the deaths are the people who advocate and justify killing. Those people don't have a set nationality.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You're putting Hamas (and Iran etc) on one side and the current Israeli government on the other side.

They're both on the side of violence. Both on the side of killing.

There are millions of Israelis and Palestinians (and Iranians) who are not on that side, who neither advocate nor justify killing other people.

Those are the real two sides.

The only people responsible for the deaths are the people who advocate and justify killing. Those people don't have a set nationality.

It’s the Jews, the Druze, the Lebanese, the Hindus, and the Persians against the genocidal Arabs who want to re-establish the Caliphate. Israel is so hated because they’re an anti-colonial success story.

 

[Lazaran]

You're putting Hamas (and Iran etc) on one side and the current Israeli government on the other side.

They're both on the side of violence. Both on the side of killing.

There are millions of Israelis and Palestinians (and Iranians) who are not on that side, who neither advocate nor justify killing other people.

Those are the real two sides.

The only people responsible for the deaths are the people who advocate and justify killing. Those people don't have a set nationality.

One MOAR time:

Hamas (and Iran, etc) bear MOAR responsibility for those 53 deaths than Israel, but, sure…



Maybe if your posts properly assigned / allocated proportional blame and held the TRULY OFFENSIVE PARTY (Hamas - and Iran, etc) MOAR responsible for those 53 deaths, then your posts would be better received in some quarters.

Just sayin’…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

One MOAR time:

Hamas (and Iran, etc) bear MOAR responsibility for those 53 deaths than Israel, but, sure…



Maybe if your posts properly assigned / allocated proportional blame and held the TRULY OFFENSIVE PARTY (Hamas - and Iran, etc) MOAR responsible for those 53 deaths, then your posts would be better received in some quarters.

Just sayin’…



We. Told. Them. So.

If Netanyahu finds himself in front of the ICC, perhaps he can try the ‘look what they made me do’ defense.

I doubt it will work but, then again, what would I know?

If I could perform the kind of mental gymnastics that recategorizes the killing of thousands of children as ‘conducting national security operations’ then maybe I’d buy it. But I can’t and so I don’t.

 

[Lazaran]

If Netanyahu finds himself in front of the ICC, perhaps he can try the ‘look what they made me do’ defense.

I doubt it will work but, then again, what would I know?

If I could perform the kind of mental gymnastics that recategorizes the killing of thousands of children as ‘conducting national security operations’ then maybe I’d buy it. But I can’t and so I don’t.

A lot of “Ifs” and “buts” in that evasion of the valid point I was making…



Do better… or dodge MOAR….

Your choice.





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

A lot of “Ifs” and “buts” in that evasion of the valid point I was making…



Do better… or dodge MOAR….

Your choice.





We. Told. Them. So.

Your point is very simple: Hamas is more responsible for the deaths of Palestinians than the Netanyahu government.

If it's more insightful than that, then feel free to explain.

And it’s a classic 'look what you made me do' argument: Israelis kill the children but Hamas/Iran bears the responsibility for Israelis killing the children.

Like I say, Netanyahu can try that out at the ICC but I doubt it's going to work very well.

 

[Lazaran]

Your point is very simple: Hamas is more responsible for the deaths of Palestinians than the Netanyahu government.

If it's more insightful than that, then feel free to explain.

And it’s a classic 'look what you made me do' argument: Israelis kill the children but Hamas/Iran bears the responsibility for Israelis killing the children.

Like I say, Netanyahu can try that out at the ICC but I doubt it's going to work very well.

No, my ACTUAL point is that YOU COMPLETELY OMITTED / EXCLUDED Hamas (and Iran, etc) when assigning culpability for those 53 deaths (a not uncommon faux pas from biased observers who hate / have a grudge against Israel / Jews for "some reason(s)".

Hope that ^ helps.





Again: Do better… or don’t…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ShandyLeer]

One MOAR time:

Hamas (and Iran, etc) bear MOAR responsibility for those 53 deaths than Israel, but, sure…



Maybe if your posts properly assigned / allocated proportional blame and held the TRULY OFFENSIVE PARTY (Hamas - and Iran, etc) MOAR responsible for those 53 deaths, then your posts would be better received in some quarters.

Just sayin’…



We. Told. Them. So.

If it’s correct that 53 civilians were killed in a strike on a food store by IDF ( I’ve no idea if this is fact) per the posters description then Iran or Hamas’ behaviour isn’t really an excuse is it?

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

You need to create a new “both sides” sign

YOU COMPLETELY OMITTED / EXCLUDED Hamas (and Iran, etc) when assigning culpability for those 53 deaths

Better make it a good sign then!