JonBenet Ramsey

R. Richard

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All I have is the story. However, Thailand is a common destination for pedophiles. I will wait to find out if the guy has an arrest record for offenses involving underage children. Comment?

Suspect arrested in JonBenet Ramsey case

BOULDER, Colo. - A former schoolteacher was arrested Wednesday in Thailand in the slaying of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey — a surprise breakthrough in a lurid, decade-old murder mystery that had cast a cloud of suspicion over her parents.

Federal officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, identified the suspect as John Mark Karr, a 42-year-old American, and one law enforcement official told The Associated Press that Boulder police had tracked him down online.

The Ramsey family's attorney in Atlanta pronounced the arrest vindication for JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer on June 24.

"John and Patsy lived their lives knowing they were innocent, trying to raise a son despite the furor around them," Lin Wood said. "The story of this family is a story of courage, and story of an American injustice and tragedy that ultimately people will have to look back on and hopefully learn from."

The attorney said the Ramseys learned about the suspect a least a month before Patsy Ramsey's death. "It's been a very long 10 years, and I'm just sorry Patsy isn't here for me to hug her neck," Wood said.

Karr was a teacher who once lived in Conyers, Ga., according to Wood. The attorney said the Ramseys gave police information about Karr before he was identified as a suspect.

Wood would not say how the Ramseys knew Karr. But JonBenet was born in Atlanta in 1990, and the Ramseys lived in the Atlanta suburb of Dunwoody for several years before moving to Colorado in 1991.

A source close to the investigation said Karr confessed to elements of the crime. Also, a law enforcement source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the AP that Karr had been communicating periodically with somebody in Boulder who had been following the case and cooperating with law enforcement officials.

District Attorney Mary Lacy said the arrest followed several months of work, but she said no details would be released until Thursday.

Karr was being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges, authorities said. CBS reported he will be brought back to the United States this weekend.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of the family's home in Boulder on Dec. 26, 1996. Patsy Ramsey reported finding a ransom note in the house demanding $118,000 for her daughter.

The image of blonde-haired little JonBenet in a cowgirl costume and other beauty pageant outfits has haunted TV talk shows ever since, helping feed myriad theories about her killer, and the case became one of the most sensational unsolved murder cases in the nation.

Over the years, some experts suggested that investigators had botched the case so thoroughly that it might never be solved.

Investigators at one point said JonBenet's parents were under an "umbrella of suspicion" in the slaying. And some news accounts cast suspicion on JonBenet's older brother. But the Ramseys insisted an intruder killed their daughter, and no one was ever charged.

In the months after the slaying, Patsy Ramsey went before the cameras, vigorously defending herself and her husband, chastising the media and blasting local law enforcement as incompetent.

In a statement Wednesday, John Ramsey said: "Patsy was aware that authorities were close to making an arrest in the case, and had she lived to see this day, would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder."

The Ramseys moved back to Atlanta after their daughter's slaying.

Wood lashed out at the frenzy that long surrounded the case, and he accused the media of "the most obscene false accusations." "I think the public's mind was so poisoned against this family that no one was able for too many years to look at the evidence," he said.

Patsy Ramsey's sister, Pam Paugh, of Roswell, Ga., said the family was celebrating the news of the arrest. "We are elated. We are elated. If this is, in fact, the killer, then we have a very heinous killer off the streets to never harm another child," Paugh said.

Lib Waters of Marietta, Ga., visited the gravesites of Patsy and JonBenet Ramsey in the Atlanta suburb immediately after hearing news reports about the arrest.

Waters, who described herself as a longtime friend of the Ramsey family, taped a piece of notebook paper to JonBenet Ramsey's headstone that read: "Dearest Patsy, Justice has come for you and Jon. Rest in peace."

In 2003, a federal judge in Atlanta concluded that the evidence she reviewed suggested an intruder killed JonBenet. That opinion came with the judge's decision to dismiss a libel and slander lawsuit against the Ramseys by a freelance journalist, whom the Ramseys had named as a suspect in their daughter's murder. The Boulder district attorney at the time said she agreed with the judge's declaration.

"Today is additional vindication of the family," Wood said.

Wood said he and the Ramseys "have been totally amazed and impressed with the professionalism of law enforcement" under Lacy's direction. Lacy became district attorney in 2001.

Lawrence Schiller, author of the 1999 book "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" about the case, said Wednesday he understood the man had been on a list of sexual offenders who were suspects for a long time.

"There are a lot of facts about her actual death that the public does not know." Schiller said. "If he did confess to some facts of the murder, to reveal those facts of the case, that would finish the puzzle."

Among the facts he said were not generally known was the murder weapon and what the killer did with it.

DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear, but Wood said two years ago that detectives were unable to match it to anyone in an FBI database. It was not immediately known Wednesday whether investigators had any DNA evidence against Karr.

Bob Grant, a former Adams County district attorney who worked on the case, said there was never enough evidence to convince him that any potential suspect could be successfully prosecuted.

"I wasn't convinced it was an inside job, nor was I convinced it was an outside job," he said. "All the outside suspects were cleared after exhaustive investigation, and there were a whole lot of outside suspects."
 
I'm sorry, but the Ramsey parents still look guilty as hell. They never have answered the burning question of the last 10 years: Why did they hide behind an army of attorneys and refuse to co-operate with the police?
 
Here's more. I've cut it down to avoid too much repitition. Take note that the FBI profiler never suspected the parents (bolds are mine):

New York Times

Suspect Is Arrested in JonBenet Ramsey Case
By DAVID STOUT
Published: August 16, 2006

WASHINGTON, Aug. 16 — A suspect has been arrested in Thailand in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6-year-old beauty queen whose slaying in her parents’ Colorado home nearly a decade ago shocked the nation and for a time cast a cloud on the family, federal officials said today.

The suspect was arrested on Tuesday night in Bangkok by members of the Boulder County, Colorado, district attorney’s office, United States immigration officers and the Royal Thai Police, said Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the immigration and customs enforcement agency of the Department of Homeland Security.

An American security official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the man arrested is a United States citizen, and that the arrest resulted from “several months of fairly complex investigation.”

Federal officials familiar with the case said the man was already being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges, The Associated Press reported. CBS News reported that the suspect is a 41-year-old elementary-school teacher.

...

There were several unanswered questions this afternoon as news of the arrest began to spread, including exactly what charges will be lodged against the suspect and what led investigators to him after all this time. JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of the family home in Boulder the day after Christmas in 1996.

Early speculation centered on the parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, and even on a brother of the victim. But John Douglas, a noted F.B.I. crime-profiler, said in an interview on CNN this afternoon that he had never suspected anyone in the family.

“This didn’t have the look of it,” he said, explaining that he had seldom, if ever, seen such post-mortem violation of a victim, as occurred in the Ramsey case, if the killer was a relative.

...

JonBenet’s death became an instant worldwide murder mystery, the subject of several books and a television movie.

The Ramseys said an intruder must have killed their daughter. But suspicions that the couple might have been involved persisted for years.

The case also opened a window on the little-known world of child pageants, as videotaped images of JonBenet in competitions showed her to be a precocious kindergartner, dressed in sequins and rhinestones, and wearing eye makeup and lipstick.

A grand jury investigation ended in 1999 with no indictments, and no arrests had been made until now. The authorities have conceded that the investigation was compromised, in large measure, by mistakes the police made in the early hours after the girl’s body was found.

...
 
3113 said:
A grand jury investigation ended in 1999 with no indictments, and no arrests had been made until now. The authorities have conceded that the investigation was compromised, in large measure, by mistakes the police made in the early hours after the girl’s body was found.

The above gives us a clue as to why the Ramseys might have appeared to be a bit uncooperative.
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
I'm sorry, but the Ramsey parents still look guilty as hell. They never have answered the burning question of the last 10 years: Why did they hide behind an army of attorneys and refuse to co-operate with the police?
Why hide behind lawyers? Because your inocent and the police keep coming at you with the line "We know you did it, why don't you just confess and make things easy on yourself?"

They pull you into the station at all hours of the night, they call at all hours of the day, they show up, unannounced, at your door with just one more question they need answered.

In those circumstances I to would hide behind lawyers and become unco-operative.
 
3113 said:
A grand jury investigation ended in 1999 with no indictments, and no arrests had been made until now. The authorities have conceded that the investigation was compromised, in large measure, by mistakes the police made in the early hours after the girl’s body was found.

...
Agreed. This investigation was a cock up from the very beginning.
The basement was searched twice. The fist time they found nothing. The second time the father found the body, picked it up and took it upstairs and laid it down on the floor in the foyer. Then he left the body and went to find the chief investigator who, picked up the body and moved it to the living room couch and waited for the cororner to arrive.
Does this sound like the O.J. Simpson investigation? :rolleyes:
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
I'm sorry, but the Ramsey parents still look guilty as hell. They never have answered the burning question of the last 10 years: Why did they hide behind an army of attorneys and refuse to co-operate with the police?
Its been common practice for decades for the police and investigators to look at the parents first in cases like these. I get the feeling that any smart parent would instantly lawyer up, whether or not guilty, if they had the funds to do so. I sure as hell would; the police need an arrest quickly in these cases, not necassarily the right person, just an arrest.

I doubt seriously that the Ramseys were the first to do that, its just that this case was so public right from the start that everyone made a bigger deal out of the insta-lawyering than was really needed.

:cool:
 
Zeb_Carter said:
In those circumstances I to would hide behind lawyers and become unco-operative.
I have to agree with Zeb on this one, especially with the news hounding you and the court of public opinion already decided.

I don't approve of the child beauty pagents, but however arguable the lifestyle it's still just a lifestyle--yet the media and public opinion immediately decided that it signified something inherently evil about the parents.

There are people who should not be parents, or who follow a lifestyle which is abusive to children, but there are many more which are just a little odd or outside the norm, not inherently abusive, including certain religions and gay parenting. The media and the public made the same leaps with the Ramseys that they do with so many other parents who do things a little differently--they presumed that the beauty pagent weirdness equaled abuse and guilt.

When the world gangs up on someone that way, when it becomes a witch hunt, the only defense is to hide behind lawyers. Which, ironically, makes one look even more guilty, but what other option does a person have? It seems to me that whatever they decided to do--openness, protestations of innocence, etc.--they would have still been condemned. So, better to have legal advice and protection, especially when one has another child and your trying to keep him safe from all this while dealing with the other child's death.
 
Having lived in San Diego throughout the Danielle Van Dam case (Hell, I even have a poem here about it) I want to throw in my additional POV about why the parents were not wrong to "lawyer-up" and why the parents have no right moves in these cases.

They were dealing with the murder of a child. I can't even imagine the pain.

Locally, the Van Dam family was villianized for having a few friends that were a little too close in a way that many of us here fantasize about and/or approve of and possibly engage in where the chance appears.

I even heard people take the ridiculous stance that they "deserved" what happened to their daughter because they were swingers.

Sure, it's the parents sometimes. But the sensationalists love a witch hunt and they make that sometimes sound like 95% of the time.

I'd hide too.

edit: BTW, while the press was focusing on the sexual habits of the parents, the killer was attempting to negotiate his way out of the death penalty by using the location of the body as a bargaining chip. Then an independant search team took away his position. And he still had a shot at getting off. And the media was still more interested in the parents sex lives than the pain they were in.
 
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The parents were cooperating with the district attorney's office from the beginning. The DA didn't think they did it and the police thought they did.
 
3113 said:
I have to agree with Zeb on this one, especially with the news hounding you and the court of public opinion already decided.

I don't approve of the child beauty pagents, but however arguable the lifestyle it's still just a lifestyle--yet the media and public opinion immediately decided that it signified something inherently evil about the parents.

There are people who should not be parents, or who follow a lifestyle which is abusive to children, but there are many more which are just a little odd or outside the norm, not inherently abusive, including certain religions and gay parenting. The media and the public made the same leaps with the Ramseys that they do with so many other parents who do things a little differently--they presumed that the beauty pagent weirdness equaled abuse and guilt.

When the world gangs up on someone that way, when it becomes a witch hunt, the only defense is to hide behind lawyers. Which, ironically, makes one look even more guilty, but what other option does a person have? It seems to me that whatever they decided to do--openness, protestations of innocence, etc.--they would have still been condemned. So, better to have legal advice and protection, especially when one has another child and your trying to keep him safe from all this while dealing with the other child's death.


I agree. From everything I have read online the Boulder police hounded the Ramseys from the very beginning. They even questioned the little brother for six hours straight. I would have hired a battery of lawyers too.
 
Moe info. Comment?

Suspect says Ramsey death 'an accident'
Thu Aug 17, 6:20 AM ET

BANGKOK, Thailand - A former American school teacher said publicly Thursday he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she was killed and called the 6-year-old's death "an accident," a stunning admission that should help answer 10 years of questions in the unsolved murder case.

John Mark Karr, 41, will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told a news conference in Bangkok.

"I was with JonBenet when she died," John Mark Karr told reporters afterward, visibly nervous and stuttering as he spoke. "Her death was an accident."

Asked if he was innocent of the crime, Karr said: "No."

Karr confessed to the killing after his arrest Wednesday at his downtown Bangkok apartment by Thai and American authorities, said Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police.

He said Karr insisted his crime was not first-degree murder but that she died during a kidnapping attempt that went awry.

"He said it was second-degree murder. He said it was unintentional. He said he was in love with the child, she was a pageant queen," Suwat said.

Karr declined to say what his connection was to the Ramsey family. Dressed in a turquoise polo shirt and khaki trousers, he appeared ashen with an expressionless look on his face.

An attorney for the Ramsey family said Wednesday that Karr once lived near the family in Conyers, Ga.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of the family's home in Boulder, Colo., on Dec. 26, 1996.

Wednesday's arrest was a surprise development in one of America's most lurid murder cases, which had left a cloud of suspicion over her family after years went by with no arrests. Some feared the case would never be solved.

Striking video images of the blonde-haired girl in child beauty pageants helped propel the case into one of the highest-profile mysteries in the United States.

A law enforcement source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the AP that Karr had been communicating periodically with somebody in Boulder who had been following the case and cooperating with law enforcement officials.

A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey communicated with Karr over several months and contacted police. The university spokesman said he didn't know what prompted Tracey to become suspicious of Karr.

Tracey produced a documentary in 2004 called "Who Killed JonBenet?" A woman who answered the phone at a number under his name said he didn't live there anymore; his office phone mailbox was full.

The Ramseys learned that police were investigating Karr at least a month before the June death of JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey, of ovarian cancer, the family said.

In a statement Wednesday, father John Ramsey said that if his wife had lived to see Karr's arrest, she "would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder."

Suwat quoted Karr as saying he tried to kidnap JonBenet for a $118,000 ransom but that his plan went awry and he strangled her. Patsy Ramsey reported finding a ransom note in the house demanding $118,000 for her daughter.

Investigators said at one point that JonBenet's parents were under an "umbrella of suspicion" in the slaying, and some news accounts cast suspicion on JonBenet's older brother, Burke. But the Ramseys insisted an intruder killed their daughter, and no one was ever charged.

Over the years, some experts suggested that investigators had botched the case so thoroughly that it might never be solved. The Ramseys moved back to Atlanta after their daughter's slaying.

"It's been a very long 10 years, and I'm just sorry Patsy isn't here for me to hug her neck," said Lin Wood, the family's longtime attorney.

"John and Patsy lived their lives knowing they were innocent, trying to raise a son despite the furor around them," Wood told MSNBC.

Suwat said U.S. authorities informed Thai police on Aug. 11 that an arrest warrant had been issued for Karr on charges of premeditated murder. The warrant was sent to Thai police on Wednesday.

"Through investigation we were able to determine where his residence was and the Thais arrested him," Hurst said. "He did not resist. He did express surprise."

Hurst said Karr has been "very cooperative" with authorities and that he's shown a "variety of emotions."

Suwat said Karr arrived in Bangkok on June 6 from Malaysia to look for a teaching job. It was not clear whether he had gotten a job, the police officer said.

Karr's visa has been revoked as an "undesirable person" given the accusations against him, and U.S. authorities were expected to take him to the United States in the next few days, Suwat said.

Hurst, with the department's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Bangkok, said that Karr had left the United States several years ago and had not returned.

The immigration and customs office had assisted the Boulder County District Attorney's Office and the Royal Thai Police in the investigation.

The suspect, who has been in Thailand five times over the past two years, was being detained by immigration police pending arrival of U.S. officials, Suwat said.

When asked how he could travel for so many years in Asia, and whether he was independently wealthy, Hurst responded, "We're asking the same questions."

Police said Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called The Blooms in a neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists. The nine-story hotel offers rooms for as short as three-hour rentals.

The district attorney in Boulder, Mary Lacy, said the arrest followed several months of work.

She said Karr, who had traveled extensively across the world, may also be connected to a prior case in Santa Rosa County, Calif. She did not provide further details.

Sonoma County Chief Deputy District Attorney Joan Risse confirmed the child pornography charges and arrest warrant against a John Mark Karr, though she cautioned that she didn't know if he was the same person held Bangkok. State records show Karr lost his teaching credential in 2002.
 
Ok, now for the devils advocate side of things....

How much was he paid to confess?

Do we have any conspiracy nuts here? Now you know over on the GB they are going to be exploring this possibility.
 
Man says he drugged, had sex with Ramsey


BANGKOK, Thailand - The American suspect in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey told investigators that he drugged and had sex with the 6-year-old beauty queen before accidentally killing her, a senior Thai police officer said Thursday.

An autopsy on Ramsey said a blood screening showed no drugs or alcohol in her body but said she had vaginal abrasions.

Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police, said by telephone that he was not present for the questioning, which was conducted by U.S. law enforcement officials.

But, according to what the general said he was told of the questioning, the suspect, John Mark Karr, "said he drugged the child." Suwat did not say who briefed him on the questioning. U.S. officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Karr claimed he had sex with Ramsey, who was still alive, Suwat said. Karr said he then realized he had "accidentally" killed her, according to the general.



Hmmm? accidently beat and strangled her too???.....then his ex-wife is claiming her was with her in Alambama at the time??? anyone else wondering about all of this??
 
Zeb_Carter said:
Ok, now for the devils advocate side of things....

How much was he paid to confess?
:p
Let's not even go there, Zeb. You don't get paid enough to confess to something that might land you on death row. Just because he "says" it's 2nd degree murder doesn't mean that's what he'll be charged with.

Now if you'd like to argue that he's a nut case confessing to a murder for his own nutty reasons, you might have a case. People do confess to all kinds of crime in misguided and insane attempts to gain attention and legendary status. Anyone labeled as the killer of JonBenet gains instant fame and in a twisted mind that might be worth dying for.
 
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ABSTRUSE said:
Hmmm? accidently beat and strangled her too???.....then his ex-wife is claiming her was with her in Alambama at the time??? anyone else wondering about all of this??


Uhhhhhh, yup.
 
Okay, now I'm wondering why anyone would ask for $118,000. Why not a round $150,000 or $200,000? Why that particular amount?
 
3113 said:
Okay, now I'm wondering why anyone would ask for $118,000. Why not a round $150,000 or $200,000? Why that particular amount?
another piece in the puzzle.
 
And...how did he get in the house and what was his connection to the Ramsey's?
 
3113 said:
:p
Let's not even go there, Zeb. You don't get paid enough to confess to something that might land you on death row. Just because he "says" it's 2nd degree murder doesn't mean that's what he'll be charged with.

Now if you'd like to argue that he's a nut case confessing to a murder for his own nutty reasons, you might have a case. People do confess to all kinds of crime in misguided and insane attempts to gain attention and legendary status. Anyone labeled as the killer of JonBenet gains instant fame and in a twisted mind that might be worth dying for.
You may be correct about him wanting his fifteen minutes of fame. But he may be charged with 1st degree murder but I'll bet his defense is inocent by reason of mental defect.
 
3113 said:
Okay, now I'm wondering why anyone would ask for $118,000. Why not a round $150,000 or $200,000? Why that particular amount?

Possibly he asked for a round sum in Thai currency, or Euros, or pounds sterling and that was converted into $118,000.

Og
 
Zeb_Carter said:
He lived by them in Conyers GA.

Which they moved from when JonBenet was a year old, if I read the original article correctly. Kind of confusing.
 
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