Jealousy

[SweetErika]

I'm curious to hear how people define and view jealousy in general, and its relation to relationships, love, and sex specifically.

I'm also interested in how others deal with jealousy, whether it's coming from them, or someone they love.

Thoughts, experiences, coping strategies, new questions, etc. are all welcome.

 

[cdobbs12000]

sheesh

jealousy is never a good thing

 

[devils_daughter]

Jealousy is evil! I'm a very jealous person and last time that (partially reasonable) jealousy left me with a black eye for a fortnight after I smacked the girl I ws jealous of...very mature I know

 

[SweetErika]

jealousy is never a good thing

Do you think it ever serves a purpose? Why do you think people get jealous? (cdobbs or anyone else can answer too)

Jealousy is evil! I'm a very jealous person and last time that (partially reasonable) jealousy left me with a black eye for a fortnight after I smacked the girl I ws jealous of...very mature I know

Care to share a little more of the story, and why you feel the jealousy was "partially reasonable"? Would you deal with it differently if you could go back? Do you think jealousy is just a part of your (and others) personality forever, or is it possible for that to change?

 

[devils_daughter]

Right....to cut a long story short. Bf and said girl were close to getting involved when I came on the scene, he chose me but tried to force me into sleeping with her. I agreed (though didn't have to go through with it in the end) because he made it very clear that if I didn't sleep with her then he'd leave me and I was too weak back then to deal with it (I'd got with him only a month and a half after attempting suicide), tried to be friendly with the girl but he made it seem like he wanted her but had settled for me. He refused to let me talk to anyone about it so I couldn't vent the anger. We went to a party that she was at, he grabbed me around the throat because I tried to stop him cutting himself, I went and had a panic attack, she walked in, I smacked her, we got in a fight, he tried to stop it, I told him to "Fuck off and die" then got back to my fight. I got kicked out of the house as no-one knew why it'd happened, me and the bf got into a physical fight and I went home...nice night.

Would deal with it differently if I could, I'd have realised that all the fault was that of my bf, (he was the one to lie to me so he could go to the cinema with this girl alone, and asked her what she would do if he kissed her). I wouldn't have hit her, and I'm currently trying to make amends for that atm. He knew I was a jealous person from the start, always have been and think I always will.

 

[AppleBiter]

I'm a very jealous lover. I don't think it's necessarily good for me to be that way, but it can't be changed. I've tried. It's just part of my nature.

He, on the other hand, is never jealous. His not being jealous is good, but sometimes, it would be nice if he were. I know that doesn't make sense, but I'm a little strange, anyhow.

 

[devils_daughter]

Makes perfect sense

 

[Munachi]

my first bf kissed another girl in front of me to make me jealous and see my reaction because it would determine "how much i liked him". prick.

 

[His_pita]

I can be jealous at times. Like it doesn't bother me a bit the way he describes the fine ass he saw at the grocery store. But, if I read a post where he is a little flirty I will get jealous.

I do think a little jealousy is ok and shows you care and are possessive of the one you love, in a good way. Too much jealousy means there are major trust issues that should be dealt with.

 

[TBKahuna123]

Hmm...

Does jealousy ever serve a purpose? Sure. I think everyone likes it when their lover gets a LITTLE jealous because it can show they really care. However, I think jealous people, meaning those prone to jealousy who get jealous often, can be dangerous. It can put stress on a relatioship and in many cases turn abusive.

I also think that people who use someone's jealousy to manipulate someone are pretty low. Nothing can destroy a relationship faster, IMNSHO.

I also think that jealousy is inevitable and unpredictable. Often time you can make someone jealous without even thinking you are doing it and it can cause stress on a relationship. When one person never gets jealous, then suddenly does, they might try to hide it because they pride themselves on not being jealous. As they hide it, it wears ont hem, but the other person doesn't understand what's wrong. I find this happens every so often with my wife and I, because neither of us get jealous very often, so we miss the signals.

 

[Eilan]

I think jealousy, for some people, is really a coverup for the fact that they're doing something they shouldn't be doing. For years, my dad accused my mom of cheating. Given her situation at that time, nothing could have been further from the truth. He, however, was doing exactly what he accused her of doing.

I've seen how my father's jealousy has affected my parents' relationship; now history's repeating itself with my brother and his fiancée. Jealousy can be ugly, even if it doesn't turn violent.

Even though we've both been cheated on by previous partners, my husband and I aren't jealous of our friends and acquaintances, and we've fulfilled some fantasies this past year that, had jealousy been an issue, could have had devastating consequences for our relationship.

However, I think that I could have very easily ended up with jealousy/trust issues after the collapse of my first marriage. The job that my ex had toward the end of our marriage required him to be in contact with high-schoolers, and a few of the high-school girls were physically demonstrative toward him--often right in front of me. He always handled their "advances" with a lot of class. I was never threatened by these girls; in fact, my ex and I used to laugh about their behavior. Until he cheated, I never once felt insecure.

One reason why my ex and I had a half-assed (and eventually unsuccessful) reconciliation was because I wasn't sure that I could ever trust him again, and he didn't think he could deal with not being trusted. Because he'd cheated on me, I think that there would have been this nagging voice in the back of my mind saying, "Maybe he's not really working late" or "Maybe he really didn't need to work extra hours this weekend." I saw that the potential for jealousy was there, and it scared me, because I didn't want to end up like my parents.

I'm gonna say the same thing about jealousy that I'd say, for example, to men who are concerned about their SO's negative body image. It's the jealous person's problem--until it starts negatively impacting relationships. The self-esteem issues that cause some people to be jealous aren't going to go away overnight, and the jealous partner has to want/try to change.

Hope that makes sense. I'll come back if I can think of anything else to add.

 

[Denae]

my first bf kissed another girl in front of me to make me jealous and see my reaction because it would determine "how much i liked him". prick.

Exact same thing happened to me. I didn't react, he became pissed and broke up with me because I didn't react publicly. I figured it was no big loss because if someone needed me to express jealousy as proof of my affection, he is not someone I needed to have as a boyfriend.

I figure if someone wants to be with someone else, fine let them. I'd just rather take myself out of the equation. I will not "fight" for a man to stay with me.

 

[The Neon Wolf]

my first bf kissed another girl in front of me to make me jealous and see my reaction because it would determine "how much i liked him". prick.

I'm a guy and I fail to understand his logic in this...although I'd say prove your affection for him with a swift kick somewhere painful.

I don't really get jealous, I trust my girlfriend completely, we live in different cities and have gotten by fine for over 2 years.

 

[groban]

im jealous all the time, these days.

im jealous that he still has feelings for his wife.

im scared he'll never want me now.

jealousy sucks

 

[cloudy]

I think a very small twinge of jealousy now and then is pretty much normal. However, if a partner reads "cheating" into every little thing you do, then they have serious self-esteem issues.

At one point, if I was in the truck with my husband and happened to look at the car next to us, and the driver was male, I was accused of "scoping" him out.

When I went to the grocery store, and took longer than he thought I should to get the shopping done, he wanted to know who I met while I was there.

It's ridiculous, and those who act that way just drive their partners away from them. It's clingy, but it's worse than clingy. If you are that insecure about your partner's affections, why the hell do you even want them?

 

[Eilan]

im jealous all the time, these days.

im jealous that he still has feelings for his wife.

im scared he'll never want me now.

jealousy sucks

Well, no offense here, but, unless you meant to say ex-wife, they're still married. . .

 

[Recidiva]

I'm curious to hear how people define and view jealousy in general, and its relation to relationships, love, and sex specifically.

I'm also interested in how others deal with jealousy, whether it's coming from them, or someone they love.

Thoughts, experiences, coping strategies, new questions, etc. are all welcome.

Here's a copy of a blog of mine on exactly this subject, hope it gives you a smile and some insight.

Meeting of The “Mine!”s

I’ve discovered a new joy: Watching my husband’s shoulders while he’s walking down the stairs in the gym. It’s a simple pleasure, and one I now insist upon as my right. He gestures for me to go first. He knows I walk like a drunken pirate after getting off the treadmill due to balance issues and he tries to keep an eye on me so he can save me from an embarrassing spaz attack and probable concussion.
I hang back. “No, please, you first. I insist.” I’ve told him about the shoulder thing.
He smiles and winks “You’re so easy.”
I nod and walk behind him “Yep. Might as well admit it and enjoy it.” I get to walk behind him and say to myself “My shoulders. Mine! Okay. His shoulders. Nice shoulders. Mine!”

He and I have come to terms with jealousy and possessiveness. They’re fine. We have them. We like them. We don’t let them run roughshod over us, but we don’t tease them with pointy sticks, either. Jealousy and possessiveness have a partnership with respect and trust. The more you trust and respect each other, the more you can give your jealousy and possessiveness room to play. They can be fun in the way that having an albino Bengal tiger as a pet is cool. It’s primal, it’s dangerous, it’s beautiful, it’s stretched out on the couch. It will eat anyone entering uninvited.

My jealousy keeps me in touch with my own hungers and needs and helps me realize how much my husband means to me. He’s my air. Jealousy is what makes me walk over and take a deep breath. Jealousy from him reassures me that he feels the same way. I’m his air. Possessiveness is in the eyes and the way hands or voices can be confident and unapologetic for wanting to breathe each other in. Jealousy and possessiveness only become liabilities when the trust and respect aren’t there, when there is no personal discipline or responsibility.

Having no agreement is fine, though. When women or men can pass through your days or nights without leaving a ripple of unique need, that’s actually fine, but you’d better be able to handle that searing gut punch when you find someone you want that doesn’t want you back. That’s what being civilized is. We’re all capable of being ravenous and selfish, can we counter it with self control? Smiling at another person and politely cudgeling your unwanted interest into submission, not allowing your possessiveness to reach your eyes, voice or your hands when unwanted, is a skill to be developed with practice. We don’t come by it naturally. What we come by naturally in our youth is stumbling through life, smelling vaguely of being unable to clean ourselves and grabbing at stuff with sticky hands, whining “Gimme, gimme, gimme.”

If you lack any genuine possessiveness or jealousy, that’s a sign that there’s no need to build a strong bond with anyone in particular. Have fun, move along. When the going gets tough with someone else, you get going. When you’re down, you’re no fun and the folks you hang with for fun get going to better pastures too. Not everyone is built to mate for life. Too much stress, too heavy, too much responsibility. Easier to rent than own. Saves on maintenance. True, but you have no equity, either. Nothing that’s yours. So choose. You sacrifice the freedom to cut and run at the first sign of trouble when you’re bound to each other. You sacrifice the right to believe that someone will be there to give a damn about you when you’re casual. Everyone is going to miss something in life, that’s the point of choices. Casual is fine, committed is fine, just don’t whine about what you’re missing. Everybody is missing something. Start with that assumption of that being the human condition and move on. No need to constantly list what you don’t have like some order you placed on Ebay that God didn’t deliver. “God’s a scam, I’m tellin’ you…”

I’ve tried to encourage my daughter to date lots of guys, or girls if she so chooses. The more, the merrier. Don’t be exclusive if you don’t want to. Keep options open. Don’t make any stupid promises. Check out what you like, keep it light, don’t get tied down by impossible romantic ideals. She asked “But isn’t that using someone?” I shrugged. “Honey, being used can be fun. If it isn’t, find someone else to use you that knows what they’re doing. I’ve been used, worked out just fine for me. How are you ever going to learn anything unless you practice? You can’t ride a Harley your first day, you’ve gotta start with training wheels on something that won’t destroy you the first time you make a mistake. It’s the people who never get on a bike that are going to suffer. They’ll dream of that Harley, but really, they have no balance and the thing would kill them the first time they tried to prop up the kick stand.”

If you treat every person you’re going to have lunch with as your life-long, absolute “you’re-the-one” before you’ve ordered your first appetizer, that’s bad juju. Way too much pressure on something so new and inexperienced, no way that’s going to end well. It’ll choke the life out of any possibility of fun. I’m a fan of the easygoing flirt. Men have had to go way out of their way to assure me they are serious. I smile and dismiss any attempt at seriousness as a nice compliment. I think I’m polite. Jim thinks I’m “fucking dense.” My way works, though. I recommend it to anyone. Taking it lightly and letting guys off the hook works. They can’t help it. It’s the testosterone. Some guys just can’t hold their estrogen. They’ll write songs, they’ll recite poetry, they’ll promise you their family farm. They’re drunk, let them sleep it off. Most guys just look sheepish and then wander off, kinda embarrassed about what they said after they sober up. They like it when a woman doesn’t crucify them for being giddy and getting a little courtship practice in. I get a chance to practice my defenses and backhand. I stay on my toes, they can find their feet. I can give them pointers on stance if they ask. Suddenly I’m a pal, I’m “one of the guys” and “not like other women.”

If a relationship is going to have any future at all, a guy needs to have enough time and freedom to come to his own decision without being manipulated or having traps scattered at his feet like caltrops, tossed by the woman he’s considering. Life is rough enough without the person you want to trust with your life tossing tests your way. When he chooses to make it absolutely clear, beyond a doubt, without any ambiguities or question, that he has chosen to build a future together with a woman at his side, he needs to know that he came to that choice freely. That’s the guy’s decision, not the woman’s. Her decision was whether or not she was going to spend any time on him at all the first second she saw him. If a woman can trap or browbeat a guy into marriage, then he’s whipped, and not worth having. He’ll bitch to everyone who will listen about how mean his woman is. He’s broken, throw him back and let another woman help him find his balls. Women might think they want a whipped man, but that’s a woman that doesn’t know the difference between owning a lap dog or being owned by a wolf. Lap dogs do what you say and you can keep them in one place, but they’re boring and annoying. They tremble, they cringe, you can step on them too easily. They yip and whine when they’re hungry. Wolves are cool. They howl at the moon and send tingles up your spine. They know they can rip you to pieces. If you try to step on them or dress them up in a sweater, you lose a foot or a hand. Wolves are real. They do that great growl thing. When a wolf is hungry, he knows how to hunt, and doesn’t need permission.

If a man decides that he wants only one woman, then he’s gotta convince her. He’s gotta own it. If a guy doesn’t have the testosterone to counter her estrogen, sober up and be serious, then he hasn’t chosen to do what it takes to deal with real life and real needs, best to just let him go. If he tries to be serious and he loses his motivation after a while, let him go. He’ll usually come back a year later and say “Oh hell…big mistake…” but by then she’s probably with someone else, the window’s closed. If he can’t stop being distracted by money, power, ego, enough to have some time for intimacy, care, humor, he’s not worth the time it takes to listen to drunken promises after a while. Over time a woman just knows he can’t deliver and it’s not cute fun drunk anymore, it’s ugly bitter drunk. Time to go.

People who go out and have casual sex with whoever they want and then whine about not being called the next day are missing the point entirely to casual sex. It’s a lottery ticket. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you lose, throw the ticket out. Sex is a function. Own your sex drive. Was it safe and was it fun? Good. End of story. Fun is the entire point to casual. Women can behave as if they gave away something, that something deep happened. “He took advantage of me!” Well, something deep might have happened, but it was probably measured in inches and not mysticism. Try to screen your dudes better next time if it sucked. If it was absolutely the best sex ever…well, that might just be every day for him. He’s blessed. Be happy for him and ask for some help on your stance. Pick up a few pointers. Call him and tell him he’s great, and thank him. Leave a window open and be cool. Then find someone else to do. If he calls you, that’s fine. If he doesn’t, stop trying on the wedding dress in your head, dust off your handbag and head back out. No end to the lottery tickets on sale. Being easy to tip over and then complaining about this horrible beast of a man who just broke your heart is insulting to men. It’s what makes guys think that women are manipulative bitches who never say what they’re thinking and are trying to trap a guy who is only out to have some fun with friction. Measure success in orgasms achieved. If you didn’t get one, he or you are doing it wrong. Buy a book or rent a movie that explains these things. Ask the next guy you see on the street to explain to you what a good orgasm feels like. I bet he’ll answer you. If you got one or more, well, good for you. The fact that you had sex doesn’t mean much other than…you had sex. No mystery here. If you want to be casual, be casual. Don’t start thinking every lottery ticket owes you a jackpot because you plunked down a whole buck. It’s a gamble. If you did more talking up front, you might know the difference between a solemn, sober vow and having your thong removed with his teeth after a few shots of tequila.

Guys who take pride in jerking women around with poetry and lies about emotion in order to get them to sleep with them are making the same mistake in reverse. They promise a jackpot with every ticket bought. They can’t deliver. They collect the women like tickets but can’t win the jackpot themselves, they’ve never learned what those weird numbers mean. The code on the ticket don’t mean a thing, only how many tickets he can produce as proof that he can get them. What’s the matter? Sex not good enough, we have to dress it up in your ego to impress equally clueless guys? I think that if you can’t stop talking about sex, it’s because you can’t start having it. Not the good stuff, anyway. This guy is completely incapable of having one woman be any different from another other than in stats, hair color, or whether or not she was bagged, after which she has no value at all. I think if you’re going to go this road, stop talking about love and devotion and connection. Talk about how great the sex is. Be convincing. Smell good. Be funny. Wear a shirt that doesn’t have a mustard stain on it. Be charming. Maybe exercise. Women will sleep with you. Easy. No need to be a dick about it. It’s okay to stop shoving women in Pokemon balls and just have sex.

My husband once came to me at the end of the day and told me the sordid tale about a friend of mine who tried to seduce him. She told him she could have him if she really wanted him, and that I couldn’t stop her. Of course I couldn’t stop her. He had to stop her. I was nowhere near this event when it happened. But I heard it from him first. Up front, on the table, no joke. Okay, maybe jokes and recounting of how it happened and how he had fun ensuring that she knew her offer and assumptions were wrong and unwelcome, but hey, she asked for it. That was her lack of being trustworthy, not his. That was her lack of respect, not his. He reassures me by making sure I know that he’d be thrilled to kill any guy that was disrespectful to me, but he expects me to not encourage men to be disrespectful for their own safety. He also knows I like to use disrespectful guys as target practice, just to stay sharp, so he lets me have fun. Should I leave him, he’ll just hunt me down and be persuasive. It might involve killing, but not me. Amen. Deal. I’m more vicious than he is, though. If I caught him cheating, I wouldn’t kill the women. I’d kill him. I’d go straight for the source. At first he scoffed at the idea of my threats of death. He’d snort and say “Never.” I’d say “You could kick my ass if you see me coming, but you sleep. It might not be death, it might just be maiming.” He thinks. “Good point.”

He’s allowed to leave me, not cheat on me. There’s a version of traditional Romany wedding vows are beautiful. They say that you will stay together until you no longer hold your mate in your heart, and that you promise to let them go should your love fade. That’s pragmatic beauty and truth. Passions do die. People do change. Taking that vow allows the unloved not to be “tossed back” but to be respected enough to be released so the unloved can find someone to genuinely care for them, to pursue their own happiness without being forced to live in half measures. I’ve told Jim that if the fire were to die in his heart and he wanted to leave me, take mercy on me and snap my neck first. He just says “Would never happen. That is something you never need to worry about while you’re still breathing.” I’m serious, he’s serious, we understand each other. We’ve established a clear covenant with clear consequences. There is always an escape clause for either of us, because we’re realistic, but that’s in the fine print. We work hard and make sacrifices to defend and nurture what we have together. We have a simple equation we have agreed to. Simple to say, hard to do well. We don’t do stupid things that put our trust or respect for each other in any danger. We go the opposite direction and try to inspire each other to value what we have together. If an issue happens to come up between us, a person or differences in how we see the world, we just keep sight of each other and work on removing the obstacle between us together rather than blame each other for it being there at all. With this deal we can still be attractive to the opposite sex and it isn’t a crime. It’s just the normal course of things. Of course women want my husband. Too bad. Mine! The shoulders belong to the leering, drunken pirate. Arrrrr!

 

[wicked woman]

He and I have come to terms with jealousy and possessiveness. They’re fine. We have them. We like them. We don’t let them run roughshod over us, but we don’t tease them with pointy sticks, either. Jealousy and possessiveness have a partnership with respect and trust. The more you trust and respect each other, the more you can give your jealousy and possessiveness room to play.

<snip>


My jealousy keeps me in touch with my own hungers and needs and helps me realize how much my husband means to me. He’s my air. Jealousy is what makes me walk over and take a deep breath. Jealousy from him reassures me that he feels the same way. I’m his air. Possessiveness is in the eyes and the way hands or voices can be confident and unapologetic for wanting to breathe each other in. Jealousy and possessiveness only become liabilities when the trust and respect aren’t there, when there is no personal discipline or responsibility.

Jealousy...like all things...is good in moderation.

 

[groban]

Well, no offense here, but, unless you meant to say ex-wife, they're still married. . .

sorry i did mean ex-wife

 

[ewopper]

I'm curious to hear how people define and view jealousy in general, and its relation to relationships, love, and sex specifically.

I'm also interested in how others deal with jealousy, whether it's coming from them, or someone they love.

Thoughts, experiences, coping strategies, new questions, etc. are all welcome.

Being honest, I can be jealous if the woman I am with is touchy feely with other guys in front of me. I'm not violent so I'll leave and sweat out the hurt but my trust;starts to wane until eventually we split up. I don't ask for no one to agree with me, but that's how I feel. Maybe that's why I'm not in a relationship, but experience has taught me that when a woman is promiscuous
with other guys in front of you it's only a matter of time before she dumps you.If the two of you have a so called open relationship then that's another story. I don't knock it, but I've never been in an open relationship. I've been in relationships where the woman kept her legs open [grin] but never in an open relationship.

 

[Eilan]

Maybe that's why I'm not in a relationship, but experience has taught me that when a woman is promiscuous with other guys in front of you it's only a matter of time before she dumps you.

I'm going to question your use of "promiscuous" here, but that's mostly because I think there's a huge difference between flirting and fucking, and I tend to associate promiscuity with sex. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

Some people, male and female, are naturally more physically demonstrative than others. I know a lot of people, particularly women, who'll lay a hand on someone's arm doing a conversation or tend to be "huggy," and it doesn't matter if they're talking to man or women. That, to me, doesn't mean that they're promiscuous; in fact, I know some people who'd be shocked to learn that others interpret their behavior as flirty.

If those women's behavior makes you uncomfortable, then you should just avoid demonstrative women.

 

[ewopper]

I'm going to question your use of "promiscuous" here, but that's mostly because I think there's a huge difference between flirting and fucking, and I tend to associate promiscuity with sex. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

Some people, male and female, are naturally more physically demonstrative than others. I know a lot of people, particularly women, who'll lay a hand on someone's arm doing a conversation or tend to be "huggy," and it doesn't matter if they're talking to man or women. That, to me, doesn't mean that they're promiscuous; in fact, I know some people who'd be shocked to learn that others interpret their behavior as flirty.

If those women's behavior makes you uncomfortable, then you should just avoid demonstrative women.

Again I emphasize touchy feely... pressing her breasts up against him always making some kind of physical contact, hands on etc. excessive brushing up against them. I've been on both sides of the coin and usually she either wants to fuck the guy she's playful with or she wants to make her lover insanely jealous either way someone gets hurt

 

[SweetErika]

Thanks to everyone who's responded so far...you all make excellent points, and it's fascinating to hear different perspectives on this topic.

I do think a little jealousy is ok and shows you care and are possessive of the one you love, in a good way. Too much jealousy means there are major trust issues that should be dealt with.

Good point. What's "too much" jealousy though? When does it turn from endearing to problematic?

I'm gonna say the same thing about jealousy that I'd say, for example, to men who are concerned about their SO's negative body image. It's the jealous person's problem--until it starts negatively impacting relationships. The self-esteem issues that cause some people to be jealous aren't going to go away overnight, and the jealous partner has to want/try to change.

I think you bring up an interesting facet of this...that jealousy is often a manifestation of low self-esteem. I've found this to be true with myself...if I'm feeling good and confident in my abilities or place in someone's life, I'm rarely jealous. However, when my self-esteem starts to slide, I start questioning myself and place, and jealousy comes much more often.

I think a very small twinge of jealousy now and then is pretty much normal. However, if a partner reads "cheating" into every little thing you do, then they have serious self-esteem issues.
<snip>
It's ridiculous, and those who act that way just drive their partners away from them. It's clingy, but it's worse than clingy. If you are that insecure about your partner's affections, why the hell do you even want them?

True. From experience, I'd extend your first statement to "if a partner reads 'cheating, s/he doesn't love me as much, I'm being replaced, his/her actions devalue me, s/he shouldn't love anyone else,' then they have serious self-esteem issues."

I couldn't agree more about driving your partner away with extremely jealous thoughts and actions. I've often wondered why people stay in relationships without a basic level of trust and security.

If you lack any genuine possessiveness or jealousy, that’s a sign that there’s no need to build a strong bond with anyone in particular. Have fun, move along. When the going gets tough with someone else, you get going. When you’re down, you’re no fun and the folks you hang with for fun get going to better pastures too. Not everyone is built to mate for life. Too much stress, too heavy, too much responsibility. Easier to rent than own. Saves on maintenance. True, but you have no equity, either. Nothing that’s yours. So choose. You sacrifice the freedom to cut and run at the first sign of trouble when you’re bound to each other. You sacrifice the right to believe that someone will be there to give a damn about you when you’re casual. Everyone is going to miss something in life, that’s the point of choices. Casual is fine, committed is fine, just don’t whine about what you’re missing. Everybody is missing something. Start with that assumption of that being the human condition and move on. No need to constantly list what you don’t have like some order you placed on Ebay that God didn’t deliver. “God’s a scam, I’m tellin’ you…”

Great, thanks for posting that, and you make a ton of excellent points. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with the above. I know several people who really aren't jealous or possessive, but they do want and need to build strong bonds with particular people. Most of them believe there will always be important people in their lives, but there's no need to restrict the potential happiness of others with jealousy, possessiveness, or limitations on intimacy. Actually, my husband is one of them...it doesn't bother him one bit for me to have other relationships, but he views his bond with me as the first priority. In this case, I see the lack of jealousy and possessiveness as a higher level of trust, love, and commitment to our relationship.

 

[Recidiva]

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with the above. I know several people who really aren't jealous or possessive, but they do want and need to build strong bonds with particular people. Most of them believe there will always be important people in their lives, but there's no need to restrict the potential happiness of others with jealousy, possessiveness, or limitations on intimacy. Actually, my husband is one of them...it doesn't bother him one bit for me to have other relationships, but he views his bond with me as the first priority. In this case, I see the lack of jealousy and possessiveness as a higher level of trust, love, and commitment to our relationship.

I think that's cool. I've been in a state in my life where I really didn't believe in monogamy, and someone asked me that if we were to consider ourselves "married", to him it meant:

"It means that you're free to dance with whomever you choose. It means that you save the last dance for me. When the dance is over, it's me that you go home with."

See, now he was cool...but there was definitely a BUT.

What wasn't cool was that every other man I was attracted to was also an alpha male guy, and they don't at all like to share, ever. Some of them said they could handle it, no problem, but it corroded them. They'd eventually all want to know where they rated, whether or not they'd moved up to the top of the list. They'd also be hurt if I said "no" and the relationship would start to have an ugly power play to it that I didn't enjoy. I was honest, maybe that was my mistake. Maybe if I made each man feel like they were always "the best" I would have fared better in this little experiment.

Even the guy that only asked that I go home with him at the end of the dance wouldn't at all like it if I'd turned him down to ask another man to go home with me instead. "First priority" gets confusing when you're dealing with each person having their own priorities, which inevitably diverge in places. So what happens when my "cool" husband does his thing and then comes to me and does a "snap the fingers" thing, but I'm actually more interested in the guy I've been talking to while he was with other women?

Maybe I don't want to go with him because I made plans to watch a movie with someone else and snuggle instead, and I won't break my plans because it's rude? He's suddenly not so cool. I've found it very difficult to serve two masters...one of them being myself. Two men means three masters, even harder. Conflicts were inevitable and not really pretty. I got tired of negotiating and protecting other people's egos. I was so busy trying to define boundaries of relationships that I had very little time to actually get to having them to the depth of intimacy that I wanted for myself.

Even my husband now, when I met him he had so many women...and he had no trouble keeping them all happy to be with him and making them all feel special. I figured he was the most easygoing person, perfect to have an affair with, because he'd never be monogamous. Pure fun, right? Well, guess what? I never asked him to, but he cut off every other woman and focused on me. I wasn't consulted.

I've had lots of men at once and one at a time. But every guy that I am attracted to wants to be the alpha male. Nobody I've ever been attracted to can really handle second string. So that's just me. I think that as long as all partners are all happy with the dynamics at play, that's a good relationship.

I think of my spouse the way I think of my kids. They are mine. I can't look at any other child and feel the same fierce protectiveness as when I look at my own. I can't look at any other man and feel the same fierce sense of "mine." If I were to go off every other day and care for someone else's children when I should be caring for mine, it does seem to dilute the whole idea of "family" for me. Same thing as "husband." I have limited resources, I'd rather focus them in one place.

The man I'm with now fits my life, fits my children, fits my thoughts. Trying to build a relationship with any other guy would take me away from my family or disrupt them. Maybe without kids it would be different, but my kids need stability more than I do. I can't invite anyone else in to be a part of that dynamic, family is too delicate. Maybe I'm not that delicate, but all of us together are.

If you genuinely are attracted to the type of guy that really is fine with sharing and you're honest or not so honest and it all works for everyone, more power to you, honey! I wouldn't say my way is better or your way is better. I'm always happy to find people who like things the way they have them. That's ideal. Hey, if we weren't different, the world wouldn't be any fun.

 

[Eilan]

Again I emphasize touchy feely... pressing her breasts up against him always making some kind of physical contact, hands on etc. excessive brushing up against them. I've been on both sides of the coin and usually she either wants to fuck the guy she's playful with or she wants to make her lover insanely jealous either way someone gets hurt

I guess I'm just of the opinion that there's a difference between a casual touch on the arm and dry-humping someone while standing up.

At one point, if I was in the truck with my husband and happened to look at the car next to us, and the driver was male, I was accused of "scoping" him out.

When I went to the grocery store, and took longer than he thought I should to get the shopping done, he wanted to know who I met while I was there.

You're not my mother, are you?

I've often wondered why people stay in relationships without a basic level of trust and security.

I've witnessed this firsthand with my parents' relationship, and I still don't understand it.

I never dated that much in high school. Some of my classmates were with the same guys all through high school; in a few cases, those couples are now married. Some of those guys were SO possessive, as in, "You can talk to Boy X, but you can't talk to Boy Y." One classmate had to bow out of an act in our school's variety show because her boyfriend didn't like the guys that she would be performing with.