It's time to say "homosexual" instead of "bisexual"

[senses11]

I'm proposing that we be more precise in the language we use. Particularly, I'm hoping that we'll start using the correct terms for different types of pairings. If two people of the same sex are engaged in sexual activity, that is homosexual activity. It's not bisexual activity. A person's sexual orientation might be bisexual. They might have sex with two people at the same time, one of each sex, and we should call that a bisexual experience. But I think that it sounds silly, and self-deceptively untruthful to say that you had a bi experience when you had a homosexual experience. I think many people are uncomfortable with saying that about themselves. But the fact is that if a guy has sex with another guy, even if they're both married and basically straight, that experience is a homosexual experience. Homosexual = same sex. I think it's a losing battle, but I'm making the case anyway. When a person says they're looking for their first bi experience, they're really not. They're looking for their first homosexual experience. It's just a more honest and accurate way of talking. That's all. xo, S.

 

[gypsywitch]

I am a person who does not use the term Gay if I can help it, and never for Lesbians. Homosexual sounds so text book but is correct for both men and women who stay within their own sex.

As for your comments; I feel that it is possible to be bi-sexual and have experiences with just your sex or the opposite sex. I'm married to a man and could have solo sex with a woman, but would not give up my man and have sex with him again after that. So even if the coupling is lesbian for the moment, I remain bi-sexual since I don't give up on men from that point on.

 

[senses11]

I agree. I'm only saying that when you have an experience with your own sex, regardless of your sexual orientation, it's a homosexual experience. I'm mostly straight and married but when I have sex with a guy it is a homosexual experience. I, too, see the term as pretty technical sounding, but "gay" has connotations of life-style, and I certainly don't mean to imply all that when I suck my buddy's cock. I'm just urging us to be more accurate (and maybe, for some people, truthful) in our language. xo, S.

 

[Queersetti]

I'm proposing that we be more precise in the language we use. Particularly, I'm hoping that we'll start using the correct terms for different types of pairings. If two people of the same sex are engaged in sexual activity, that is homosexual activity. It's not bisexual activity. A person's sexual orientation might be bisexual. They might have sex with two people at the same time, one of each sex, and we should call that a bisexual experience. But I think that it sounds silly, and self-deceptively untruthful to say that you had a bi experience when you had a homosexual experience. I think many people are uncomfortable with saying that about themselves. But the fact is that if a guy has sex with another guy, even if they're both married and basically straight, that experience is a homosexual experience. Homosexual = same sex. I think it's a losing battle, but I'm making the case anyway. When a person says they're looking for their first bi experience, they're really not. They're looking for their first homosexual experience. It's just a more honest and accurate way of talking. That's all. xo, S.

You make a very good point. The use of bisecual to describe people is one thing, to describe actions is another.

If a bisexual man sucks a dick, or a homoexual man does, the action is the same, and the only reason to use different terminology is to shy away from the more loaded term.

 

[bisexplicit]

Why does it matter?

 

[kbate]

This is officially the 300th thread dealing with the semantics of labelling in the other-than-straight community.

Can we just agree that we cannot agree about how to describe ourselves?

Is is really important enough to warrant a thread every other week?

 

[Gi_Venus]

I called my experiences bi-sexual for the longest time due to my uncomfort of the term homosexual. Why would I be uncomfortable? Because I grew up and still live in a homophobic environment, my own internal battles, guilt, shame....I know that if I had a healthier sense of self I would not have had a problem and called it what it was and been proud of it.
I think a lot of men in particular have a similar conflict and have unresolved issues and denial because they are unable to examine themselves in an honest light due to feeling uncomfortable. I know my sense of conflict drove my gay partners crazy....Ms Yes no...maybe... But that was not my intent.

 

[ima6uldv8]

Why does it matter?

I agree.

 

[neonflux]

Can't sexuality be much broader and deeper?

I'm proposing that we be more precise in the language we use. Particularly, I'm hoping that we'll start using the correct terms for different types of pairings. If two people of the same sex are engaged in sexual activity, that is homosexual activity. It's not bisexual activity. A person's sexual orientation might be bisexual. They might have sex with two people at the same time, one of each sex, and we should call that a bisexual experience. But I think that it sounds silly, and self-deceptively untruthful to say that you had a bi experience when you had a homosexual experience.

I think that my experience is different. I am bisexual by orientation, slightly lesbian by affectional orientation and I define myself as queer, which is not just a lifestyle but a way of being in and understanding the world. I claim it, embrace it, and express it in both the straight and the lesbian/gay/bi/trans communities. My bisexuality and queerness - which also gives me a sense of gender play - provides me with a different sense of what it means to be both a woman and to have sex with people of multiple genders (like Japanese Kabuki theatre, I acknowledge more than 2). One of my current sexual/spiritual partners, male, also defines himself as bi-queer. I do not feel when I am with him that what we experience is heterosexual, any more than I would always classify what I experience with another woman as being "homosexual." From a recent poem:

I want to plead to the goddess, damn him...

for your being queer and for letting me be fully the same
despite the very-heterosexual configuration of our genitals
and for our being able to rest in that identity together
as you fuck me with both cock and hand, using the latter

How…
How…

how could you know how, gasp!
to handfuck me hard and probing like a woman,
still forcing-me-asking-me-inviting-me to
experience you fully as a man

for seeing beyond my femme exterior to the boy within,
inviting him for future play – in dress and sex,
perhaps sharing others’ cocks or cunts together?

memories of the baby butch dyke who sold me the condoms for our tryst
mix with the remnants of my 7 year old tomboy self –
the only girl member of an all-boy club, angry when her nemesis started a tale
of her being a boy whose parents dressed him like a girl,
NOT upset because the idiot spread lies about her gender but because those lies,
if true, would have meant she was a sissy,
so she fought him like a boy and won.

Perhaps I will be a sissy boy!

This is officially the 300th thread dealing with the semantics of labelling in the other-than-straight community. Can we just agree that we cannot agree about how to describe ourselves? Is is really important enough to warrant a thread every other week?

Kbate, there is a part of me that longs for what you say to be true. I wish we could be more like pre-Christian/pagan societies and accept the fluidity of both gender and sexual orientation, but in a homophobic society, I think that currently these words we use unfortunately have weight, they have heft. It is still a cultural and political act to claim words like homosexual, queer, lesbian, bisexual...

~ Justine

 

[pa-guy]

Why does it matter?

i agree

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I've always thought that what i feel (and in addition to feel also think) is more important than labeling or defining it.

 

[CharleyH]

I agree. I'm only saying that when you have an experience with your own sex, regardless of your sexual orientation, it's a homosexual experience.

Not certain I agree. I identify with gay (lesbian and dyke have too many derogatory connotations for me) as in girl, my straight male sub identifies as straight. If he sucks a cock on my demand - does it make him gay? If I get fucked by someone I choose who is male - does it make me straight?

 

[Lady_Prowless]

I'm proposing that we be more precise in the language we use. Particularly, I'm hoping that we'll start using the correct terms for different types of pairings. If two people of the same sex are engaged in sexual activity, that is homosexual activity. It's not bisexual activity. A person's sexual orientation might be bisexual. They might have sex with two people at the same time, one of each sex, and we should call that a bisexual experience. But I think that it sounds silly, and self-deceptively untruthful to say that you had a bi experience when you had a homosexual experience. I think many people are uncomfortable with saying that about themselves. But the fact is that if a guy has sex with another guy, even if they're both married and basically straight, that experience is a homosexual experience. Homosexual = same sex. I think it's a losing battle, but I'm making the case anyway. When a person says they're looking for their first bi experience, they're really not. They're looking for their first homosexual experience. It's just a more honest and accurate way of talking. That's all. xo, S.

i agree with the homeosexuality activity..but as far as the person if they like both sexes i feel that bisexual is a better label.or if they are into beastality then what would they call it trisexual???its a label...i try not to conform to those..im not black im not white im not gay im not straight im just me.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/ladywonka78/badkitty.jpg
______________________________________________________________

 

[Xelebes]

I think he is mostly talking about specific experiences and not orientation, folks.

 

[Xelebes]

Not certain I agree. I identify with gay (lesbian and dyke have too many derogatory connotations for me) as in girl, my straight male sub identifies as straight. If he sucks a cock on my demand - does it make him gay? If I get fucked by someone I choose who is male - does it make me straight?

Scenario 1 is a bisexual experience as there is both genders engaging in sexual activity.

Scenario 2 is a heterosexual experience. You may identify yourself as homosexual but that experience is heterosexual, not bi unless another female is presently engaging themselves in the experience too.

 

[senses11]

Why does it matter?

Only because words have meaning and the more carefully we use them, the more effective, accurate, and truthful our communication is.

 

[Guest]

i agree

Agree

 

[neonflux]

I realize that we are talking about specific acts, but...

I think he is mostly talking about specific experiences and not orientation, folks.

Please read my first post again - I am also talking about specific experiences, and not at all in the abstract. we cannot help but bring who we are - this includes both our orientation and our gender - to every specific act of sex. no act of sex ever consists solely of the configuration of the participants' genitals, even when it is casual and "purely fucking," even when we may not be aware of these other elements or interested in naming them. every sex act is in some way either a journey towards or away from oneself and so automatically includes all of who we are at our core. 3 men, one straight, one bi and one gay identified, could suck the same man's cock one after the other and have totally different reasons for doing so and utterly different emotional experiences of the same act - some of these differences WILL be based on how they identify (same could be said for 3 women sharing oral sex on the same female partner)

Not certain I agree. I identify with gay (lesbian and dyke have too many derogatory connotations for me) as in girl, my straight male sub identifies as straight. If he sucks a cock on my demand - does it make him gay? If I get fucked by someone I choose who is male - does it make me straight?

Thank you, CharleyH (hope my use of the term queer didn't offend...) Your questions absolutely bring up issues of being and what that means for the sexual acts in which we participate. Perhaps as Nirvanadragones said, it's much more about what we feel than defining/categorizing what we do...

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Hear here!!

Please read my first post again - I am also talking about specific experiences, and not at all in the abstract. we cannot help but bring who we are - this includes both our orientation and our gender - to every specific act of sex. no act of sex ever consists solely of the configuration of the participants' genitals, even when it is casual and "purely fucking," even when we may not be aware of these other elements or interested in naming them. every sex act is in some way either a journey towards or away from oneself and so automatically includes all of who we are at our core. 3 men, one straight, one bi and one gay identified, could suck the same man's cock one after the other and have totally different reasons for doing so and utterly different emotional experiences of the same act - some of these differences WILL be based on how they identify (same could be said for 3 women sharing oral sex on the same female partner)

Thank you, CharleyH (hope my use of the term queer didn't offend...) Your questions absolutely bring up issues of being and what that means for the sexual acts in which we participate. Perhaps as Nirvanadragones said, it's much more about what we feel than defining/categorizing what we do...

Love you too Neon!!!!!!!

 

[neonflux]

Are you following me or am I following?

Love you too Neon!!!!!!!

Are you following me or am I following you this morning? (Of course, I'm supposed to working on getting an HTML newsletter out but am trying to distract myself...) Please have a glass of wine for (with?) me this evening - South African, of course!

~ J

 

[Nirvanadragones]

what would you prefer?

Are you following me or am I following you this morning?

~ J

Oh... catch or pitch, lead or follow, who really cares anyway??

Just happy to be around you

 

[neonflux]

What would I prefer?

I would seem to prefer the chase today but cannot find the quary! sigh...

Oh... catch or pitch, lead or follow, who really cares anyway??

Just happy to be around you

 

[none2_none2]

Please read my first post again - I am also talking about specific experiences, and not at all in the abstract. we cannot help but bring who we are - this includes both our orientation and our gender - to every specific act of sex. no act of sex ever consists solely of the configuration of the participants' genitals, even when it is casual and "purely fucking," even when we may not be aware of these other elements or interested in naming them. every sex act is in some way either a journey towards or away from oneself and so automatically includes all of who we are at our core. 3 men, one straight, one bi and one gay identified, could suck the same man's cock one after the other and have totally different reasons for doing so and utterly different emotional experiences of the same act - some of these differences WILL be based on how they identify (same could be said for 3 women sharing oral sex on the same female partner)

Thank you, CharleyH (hope my use of the term queer didn't offend...) Your questions absolutely bring up issues of being and what that means for the sexual acts in which we participate. Perhaps as Nirvanadragones said, it's much more about what we feel than defining/categorizing what we do...

I'm sorry, but lets face the facts. People call something by the name or term that seems most comfortable to them. Most people are not comfortable with the term gay because for many str8's and bi's it is a turn off. Even some gay's don't like the term -- you hear things liks str8-acting, etc...

Personally, the gay world has its own terms that people are kind of stuck with using now. I was always comfortable talking about my sexual preferences, but oh no that is a no no now-a-days. Now you are forced to be politically correct and call it orientation. It's part of that defeatist victim mentality that somehow if we couldn't help it ( and straights begin to believe we couldn't help it ), then they will love, respect, like, etc. us...

I want to be loved, liked, respected, etc. for who "I" am, not because of something I can OR cannot control. For example, I don't want to be loved if I'm right handed because the majority are right handed, NOR because few are right handed, but the lefties love me anyway because they know my "rightness" might have been beyond my control. I want to be loved, respected because I helped someone, I shared something with someone, I did something beyond my self-interests. Another example would be baldness. Should someone be treated any differently if they are bald because they shaved their head vs. because they are genetically going bald? Sure we may feel some sympathy for the individual if we think it's due to illness (chemo). I would think that the bald person would just want you to like them for who they are -- not the sharpness of their razor or the outcome of their genes.

So in conclusion, people are going to continue to call it bi-sex because they are more comfortable using that term -- just like most gays are now more comfortable with sexual orientation (vs sexual preference). Whether the term is or isn't technically closer to what you are trying to describe is besides the point. What matters most to many of these peoplel is the connotation of the words chosen. If that connotation is negative, then it won't be used, otherwise it will be most definately used.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

stepping onto my soapbox

I was always comfortable talking about my sexual preferences, but oh no that is a no no now-a-days. Now you are forced to be politically correct and call it orientation. It's part of that defeatist victim mentality that somehow if we couldn't help it ( and straights begin to believe we couldn't help it ), then they will love, respect, like, etc. us...

So in conclusion, people are going to continue to call it bi-sex because they are more comfortable using that term -- just like most gays are now more comfortable with sexual orientation (vs sexual preference). Whether the term is or isn't technically closer to what you are trying to describe is besides the point. What matters most to many of these peoplel is the connotation of the words chosen. If that connotation is negative, then it won't be used, otherwise it will be most definately used.

I disagree. To categorise people into groups, while apparently necessary at times, doesn't work - how can you pigeon-hole a complex, multilayered individual into a "square hole"? Giving people these labels does nothing but prejudice them, making them part of a group as opposed to recognising them for who and what they are. (As you rightly stated you want to be loved for who you are)

Having said that, Sexual orientation is only one of the four components of sexuality.
1. Biological sex (which is our physical gender)
2. Gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female)
3. Social gender role (which is how we conform or personify our gender as being feminine or masculine)
4. Sexual orientation (sexual gender(s) to which a person is attracted.) In other words the gender(s) toward which one is primarily "oriented". Also - not sure if anyone is familiar with the term "Affectional orientation": the belief that orientation is much more than just sexuality. People who hold this opinion say that orientation is based on who we are predisposed to fall in love with and that the sexual attraction is just a part of this.

Sexual preference is more changeable (I am not saying for example that if you are a gay female your preference might change to you being attracted to men) I see preference as referring to feelings and individuals' views about what/ whom they consider themselves to be attracted to… in that moment. Sexuality is fluid, let’s accept that. (oh and using preference as a synonym for orientation creates the impression that the person prefers one sex - does that mean that the other sex is optional?? Not sure if any gay person will like that idea...)

Let me recap:
Orientation= inherent and unchangeable
Preference = potentially changeable

Reading the original post again, (thread starter) I see that what was originally referred to, is about that acts of having sex and who you are having sex with, it was not directed at orientation.

I hold the view that it is necessary to know the terms, and understand what they mean from a philosophical/ intellectual/ psychological perspective even if the reason is merely to know yourself better.

I say it again, how I feel is more powerful and important than any politically correct (or not) term. And the way I feel might be the same tmrw as it was yesterday or it might be different. I want to have the freedom to acknowledge and celebrate that.

 

[none2_none2]

I disagree. To categorise people into groups, while apparently necessary at times, doesn't work - how can you pigeon-hole a complex, multilayered individual into a "square hole"? Giving people these labels does nothing but prejudice them, making them part of a group as opposed to recognising them for who and what they are. (As you rightly stated you want to be loved for who you are)

Having said that, Sexual orientation is only one of the four components of sexuality.
1. Biological sex (which is our physical gender)
2. Gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female)
3. Social gender role (which is how we conform or personify our gender as being feminine or masculine)
4. Sexual orientation (sexual gender(s) to which a person is attracted.) In other words the gender(s) toward which one is primarily "oriented". Also - not sure if anyone is familiar with the term "Affectional orientation": the belief that orientation is much more than just sexuality. People who hold this opinion say that orientation is based on who we are predisposed to fall in love with and that the sexual attraction is just a part of this.

Sexual preference is more changeable (I am not saying for example that if you are a gay female your preference might change to you being attracted to men) I see preference as referring to feelings and individuals' views about what/ whom they consider themselves to be attracted to… in that moment. Sexuality is fluid, let’s accept that. (oh and using preference as a synonym for orientation creates the impression that the person prefers one sex - does that mean that the other sex is optional?? Not sure if any gay person will like that idea...)

Let me recap:
Orientation= inherent and unchangeable
Preference = potentially changeable

Reading the original post again, (thread starter) I see that what was originally referred to, is about that acts of having sex and who you are having sex with, it was not directed at orientation.

I hold the view that it is necessary to know the terms, and understand what they mean from a philosophical/ intellectual/ psychological perspective even if the reason is merely to know yourself better.

I say it again, how I feel is more powerful and important than any politically correct (or not) term. And the way I feel might be the same tmrw as it was yesterday or it might be different. I want to have the freedom to acknowledge and celebrate that.

First, my post was related to the original post. He is getting into terminology that people use. In his case the bi-sex versus homo-sex acts. The reason people use terms on themselves or their activities that others don't agree with is typically because that term is more comfortable to that particular individiual than another term. I was simply pointing out that fact and giving examples that it even happens in the gay community. His was about sex action labels that some people are more comfortable with; my point was about sexuality labels. There are many gay people who are more comfortable with "orientation"; I am not one of those people. What his topic and mine have in common is they are deal with labels -- regardless if it is activity or personhood.

I remember 15-20 years ago when it was perfectly acceptable to say sexual preference, but now it's considered unacceptable. I haven't changed -- just the labels thrown at me and other gay people. Personally, I don't care for labels. They are simply short-cuts people make to "think" they understand someone instead of taking the time to know the individual. However, we all are expected to play the game of labeling ourselves and others, so we all share some responsibility for labels -- including myself.

You are not making sense to me when say you don't want to pigion-hole people, yet you want to use the "orientation" label on a person's sexuality. My sexuality is mine. I own it. Preference isn't about fluidity; it's is about empowerment and liberation. Whereas orientation isn't just about "inherent and unchangeable"; it's about disabling one's sexuality. The attitude of: "You got to love me cause I cannot help how I am." When the actual argument should be that you should love me for who I am inside -- regardless if my preferences are different from yours just today or forever. If you cannot love me for who I am, than it is your loss. I am not "A" gay, "A" male, "A" white, "An" age, "A" tall person, "A" certain religion, "A" certain whatever. I do not have a "gay" soul, a "male" soul, a "white" soul, etc. Rather I'm a sentient being who happens to be a tall, white, gay, male, a certain religion, etc. All these things influcence who I am, but not one of them define me nor will I let them.

I have always despised the stench smell of coffee. I have never liked corn bread. I never liked the taste of alcohol. (I didn't mind the smell, but the taste was always a dissapointment as well as disliking the warm feeling as it goes down your throat.)

On the other hand, I have always loved the smell of roses, coconut, cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla, chocolate. I have always loved strong warm winds and the warm glow of the afternoon western sun that come during certain times of the year. I love strawberry/rhurbarb pie, mangoes, carrot cake with cream cheese (cheesy/not overly sweet) frosting.

I know these things about myself. I have known them from the moment I was exposed to them. They were not acquired taste; they were natural for me. Sure, I may always be told, I would prefer chocolate cake if I just tried so-and-so's receipt. While some are SO good, I'd be lying to say that I would prefer it over carrot cake.

Now I know I'm going against the grain when I said what I did about coffee and alcohol, but it is my reality. There are people that think I'm crazy. Do I need some kind of "orientation" label of these things to understand it myself or to have others understand it? Would proving I have an anti-coffee smell gene really change other's opinions about me? (Perhaps I wouldn't get nagged about not wanting to be around the smell.) The fact is whether it is genetic or not, whether it is due to an environmental trauma, or whether it is just my reality, it wouldn't change HOW I would conduct my life nor my feelings on the subject. As for how other people feel, I don't really have a big emphasis on that at this point in my life. If someone is going to decide whether to like me based on whether my anti-coffee smell sensation is inherent or an affectation, then quite frankly they most likely didn't like me to begin with.

The same is true about sexual orientation. As someone who has "passed" from time to time, I've heard the comments people have made about others that they finally find out are gay. "Now I understand this or that about the outed person, it is because he/she is gay." Whether they are homophobic or open-minded people, such comments are very prejudicial. To define an individual by what some claims is beyond that individual's control is to limit that individual's potential to be whatever they want to be: He cannot compose, he's deaf. He cannot run fast, his legs were burned. She cannot learn; she's deaf and blind. She cannot write poetry, she is bi-polar. Thank goodness we know in history that there were such people who did what they wanted and didn't limit themselves nor let others limit them.

Buying into the orientation classification system isn't about self-discovery, it is about putting one more label and parameter around one's personhood. Thank goodness I know that there are people out there who think beyond these debilitating labels. I won't stoop to the level of using it on myself, or others. If someone is happy with extra labels they can have mine I don't have space for any additional labels people want to pile on.