It's LONG Past Time To Get Rid Of Ted Cruz

[Ulaven_Demorte]

None of the FFs contemplated income tax to any serious extent, and none of the original 13 colonies would ratify the Constitution as it is presently construed by the courts.

Your opinion, not to be confused with fact.

In fact, there is no way you could know the above statements to be true other than you wish them to be.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Yes, please don't mention the most egregious violation of American individual freedom of choice in history.

Every aspect of our lives is being put opon by the government. Every aspect.

Other than the government forcing you to carry health insurance , which you are allowed to choose, please name some ways in which some aspects of your life are more put upon now than in 2008.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Actually the Geneva Convention allowed it too. The SCOTUS at that time bought it as well.

So what? As a policy choice it's still indefensible, it's unjust, it's arbitrary and oppressive, it's . . . let's see if I can convey this concept in vettespeak . . . it's un-American.

 

[KingOrfeo]

We were well into the industrial revolution before the the 16th Amendment came along.

So what? The amendment was passed for reasons, mostly consequences of the Industrial Revolution, that would not have been conceivable to the FFs, but were good enough for the state legislatures to ratify it. (That's how it works, you know. One thing the FFs did think of was that the Constitution might need changing in the future, for reasons they could not foresee. And even Jefferson agreed that you cannot expect a man to wear a boy's jacket.)

Adoption

On June 16, 1909, President William Howard Taft, in an address to Congress, proposed a two percent federal income tax on corporations by way of an excise tax and a constitutional amendment to allow the previously enacted income tax.

Upon the privilege of doing business as an artificial entity and of freedom from a general partnership liability enjoyed by those who own the stock.[19][20]

An income tax amendment to the Constitution was first proposed by Senator Norris Brown of Nebraska. He submitted two proposals, Senate Resolutions Nos. 25 and 39. The amendment proposal finally accepted was Senate Joint Resolution No. 40, introduced by Senator Nelson W. Aldrich of Rhode Island, the Senate majority leader and Finance Committee Chairman.[21]

On July 12, 1909, the resolution proposing the Sixteenth Amendment was passed by the Sixty-first Congress[22] and was submitted to the state legislatures. Support for the income tax was strongest in the western and southern states and opposition was strongest in the northeastern states.[23] Supporters of the income tax believed that it would be a much better method of gathering revenue than tariffs, which were the primary source of revenue at the time. From well before 1894, Democrats, Progressives, Populists and other left-oriented parties argued that tariffs disproportionately affected the poor, interfered with prices, were unpredictable, and were an intrinsically limited source of revenue.[citation needed] The South and the West tended to support income taxes because their residents were generally less prosperous, more agricultural and more sensitive to fluctuations in commodity prices.[citation needed] A sharp rise in the cost of living between 1897 and 1913 greatly increased support for the idea of income taxes, including in the urban Northeast.[24] A growing number of Republicans also began supporting the idea, notably Theodore Roosevelt and the "Insurgent" Republicans (who would go on to form the Progressive Party).[25] These Republicans were driven mainly by a fear of the increasingly large and sophisticated military forces of Japan, Britain and the European powers, their own imperial ambitions and the perceived need to defend American merchant ships.[26] Moreover, these progressive Republicans were, as the name suggests, convinced that central governments could play a positive role in national economies.[27] A bigger government and a bigger military, of course, required a correspondingly larger and steadier source of revenue to support it.[citation needed]

Opposition to the Sixteenth Amendment was led by establishment Republicans because of their close ties to wealthy industrialists, although not even they were uniformly opposed to the general idea of a permanent income tax. In 1910, New York Governor Charles Evans Hughes, shortly before becoming a Supreme Court Justice, spoke out against the income tax amendment. While he supported the idea of a federal income tax, Hughes believed the words "from whatever source derived" in the proposed amendment implied that the federal government would have the power to tax state and municipal bonds. He believed this would excessively centralize governmental power and "would make it impossible for the state to keep any property".[28]

Between 1909 and 1913, several conditions favored passage of the Sixteenth Amendment. Inflation was high and many blamed federal tariffs for the rising prices. The Republican Party was divided and weakened by the loss of Roosevelt and the Insurgents who joined the Progressive party, a problem that blunted opposition even in the Northeast.[29] The Democrats won both houses and the Presidency in 1912 and the country was generally in a left-leaning mood, with the Socialist Party winning a seat in the House in 1910 and polling six percent of the popular presidential vote in 1912.

Three advocates for a federal income tax ran in the presidential election of 1912.[30] On February 25, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox proclaimed that the amendment had been ratified by three-fourths of the states and so had become part of the Constitution.[31] The Revenue Act of 1913 was enacted shortly thereafter.

And, remember, Marine, no income tax means no big defense budget.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

It wasn't un-American when American were in charge. It became so when Liberals and Democrats decided to look after the interests of terrorists and the enemy. When they decided they could be Commander in Chief.

Aaaand Vette goes headlong off the deep end.

 

[cjh]

It wasn't un-American when American were in charge. It became so when Liberals and Democrats decided to look after the interests of terrorists and the enemy. When they decided they could be Commander in Chief.

Despite your protest otherwise, Liberals and Democrats are Americans.

Thank God you are on the end of the bell curve of "Americans."

 

[AllyRose]

No doubt Politifact will claim she's a true genius.

They've already rated one of her statements to be False. So where's your conspiracy now?

 

[AllyRose]

And as for my challenge that I posed earlier, if you're not willing to provide proof, then I want you to stop raising the point that it was Republicans, and not Democrats, that pushed for the 13th Amendment.

 

[AllyRose]

You idiot. it was no accident that the 16th Amendment was passed in the same year as the Federal Reserve Act, which was nothing more than a power grab by the big banks. Congress wanted revenues that were politically impossible to generate through the taxing policy at the time. Inflating the national currency (stealing the value of the people's money over time) was a way of achieving it without but a few who understanding the process. The 16th Amendment gave them a means of paying it all back. But as we see now the Federal Reserve are the big winners, they hold American and foreign debt the labor of the entire world cannot pay back.

The defense of the nation being the number one function of government would have precluded expenditures on the liberal dream of Leviathan or supporting people who will not work.

Until it's ruled unconstitutional, I don't see that as anything but the Legislative branch exercising its constitutional powers.

 

[cjh]

And as for my challenge that I posed earlier, if you're not willing to provide proof, then I want you to stop raising the point that it was Republicans, and not Democrats, that pushed for the 13th Amendment.

My guess is Lincoln's Party--Republicans--championed the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.

Southern Democrats hated Reconstruction. They had no use for freedmen, scalawags, or carpet baggers.

 

[AllyRose]

My guess is Lincoln's Party--Republicans--championed the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.

Southern Democrats hated Reconstruction. They had no use for freedmen, scalawags, or carpet baggers.

Regardless, the Democrats today aren't the Democrats from yesteryear.

 

[cjh]

Regardless, the Democrats today aren't the Democrats from yesteryear.

Yup.

Have you had a chance yet to see Vette pretend like the Dixiecrats never existed and that Nixon had no Southern Strategy?

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

If President Obama said that the Earth revolved around the Sun, you'd be one of the first to post a thread and call him a liar, citing some ridiculous blog you found while searching for gay porn.

Now go change your diapers.

SHOTS FIRED

 

[richard_daily]

When will veteman be put out of his misery? He's limping along and he's pissing himself regularly these days. Dementia is setting in, and the lumps in his neck are probably cancerous.

Someone do the poor guy a solid.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Well what conclusion would you arrive at after becoming aware of the following truth?

13 th Amendment: Abolished Slavery
100% Republican Support
23% Democrat Support

14th Amendment:
Gave Citizenship to Freed Slaves
94% Republican Support
0% Democrat Support

15th Amendment: Right to Vote for All
100% Republican Support
0% Democrat Support

Still trying to convince people that the realignment of the two parties never happened huh Vette?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Still trying to convince people that the realignment of the two parties never happened huh Vette?

As near as I can tell, history stopped for Grampa Urine somewhere around Nixon's resignation. He's still fighting "Hippies" and "Commies".

 

[AllyRose]

Well what conclusion would you arrive at after becoming aware of the following truth?

13 th Amendment: Abolished Slavery
100% Republican Support
23% Democrat Support

14th Amendment:
Gave Citizenship to Freed Slaves
94% Republican Support
0% Democrat Support

15th Amendment: Right to Vote for All
100% Republican Support
0% Democrat Support

The only conclusion you can arrive at is that the democrats in the 19th century aren't, ideologically, anything like the democrats today.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It wasn't un-American when Americans were in charge.

It's un-American no matter who does it.

It became so when Liberals and Democrats . . .

You mean, Americans.

. . . decided to look after the interests of terrorists and the enemy.

Then why are they still holding "unlawful combatants"?

When they decided they could be Commander in Chief.

Obama is CinC, and the people decided he could be.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

I would love to see the Republican Party come up with at least 1 candidate who isn't completely out of their fucking mind!