Is Trump a fascist?

[Voodoo5150]

Perhaps he should have appointed you to State, with your obvious gift for diplomacy.

I'd rather ya'll motherfuckers secede and get smacked down like last time.

So please, get pissed you're being talked down to.

 

[Conager]

I'd rather ya'll motherfuckers secede and get smacked down like last time.

So please, get pissed you're being talked down to.

Why do all of the irrationally angry Clintonistas keep up this "YOU so mad!" projection? Why would I be angry? I'm relieved and surprised she lost.

You don't sound to me like you're in any position to talk down to anyone. You aren't on a higher plane.

 

[Voodoo5150]

Why do all of the irrationally angry Clintonistas keep up this "YOU so mad!" projection? Why would I be angry? I'm relieved and surprised she lost.

Why are you assuming I voted Clinton? I voted for the Libertarian nutjob since I was in a lock state to at least fuck the Republicans longterm by getting him 5% (thanks Jill Stein for being worthless and ruining that ploy).

Also, this isn't anger, it's disdain.

 

[Conager]

Why are you assuming I voted Clinton? I voted for the Libertarian nutjob since I was in a lock state to at least fuck the Republicans longterm by getting him 5% (thanks Jill Stein for being worthless and ruining that ploy).

Also, this isn't anger, it's disdain.

Where did I say you voted for Clinton? Prefering an outcome that would have put Clinton in the White House makes you a Clintonista, regardless of what carefully crafted voting plan you came up with to tilt the balance of power all by your lonesome.

You sound mad, bro.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The Left is mad cuz she'll park her fat ass outside the bedroom door for 4 years then run again.

 

[Conager]

The Left is mad cuz she'll park her fat ass outside the bedroom door for 4 years then run again.

From your lips to a beneficent God's ears.

 

[Saint Peter]

The Left is mad cuz she'll park her fat ass outside the bedroom door for 4 years then run again.

She will not run again.

 

[Conager]

She will not run again.

Sadly, almost certainly not.

 

[Saint Peter]

Sadly, almost certainly not.

Well, certainly not something we need to fret about this morning. No sir, this morning all we have to look forward to is blue skies and sloppy blowjobs. Trump is going to take us to the promised land!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

There's no such thing as "fascism" and its questionable if there ever was.

There was a political party called "Fascist" that ruled Italy from the 1920s to early 1940s, but it was a specifically Italian philosophy.

There was never any coherent international fascist movement (small f) at any time, though some people incorrectly claim that Nazi Germany was "fascist." I think the differences between Nazis and Fascists were so great, the use of a common term to describe them doesn't really make sense for a number of reasons. Beyond that a few people claim that governments in Spain, Hungary, Portugal, and perhaps a few other countries were "fascist" but that is even more of a stretch. The differences between all these governments were probably as great as any of them differed from other governments at the time. There was no certainly no overarching world "Fascist Movement" (though to be fair a few Italians proposed this early on, it never took off internationally).

One can contrast this with Communism and even other ideologies like Social Democracy, Liberalism (the classical, centrist version), and many others which did develop international organizations and institutions.

Furthermore, since the end of world war II, and particularly since the fall of the Franco and Salazar regimes in Iberia, there has been no government that any serious fairminded scholar, not motivated by political bias or hyperbole, would claim is "fascist" even if one accepts that such a thing ever did exist.

Its pretty much a fairy tale used by people across the political spectrum, but particularly those on the left, to smear and demonize opponents without any actual argument. Since it can't be defined, and probably never existed in the first place, its the perfect insult. It can't really be refuted, because it doesn't really exist.

So, no, he's not. And neither is anybody else in 2016.

Youre fulla shit. The Jews were prolly the first real fascists. I call myself a fascist.

If you wanna get at the soul of fascism think PATRIARCH.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You are correct Trump is not my sports team.



I voted for Gary Johnson.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Why do all of the irrationally angry Clintonistas keep up this "YOU so mad!" projection? Why would I be angry? I'm relieved and surprised she lost.

You don't sound to me like you're in any position to talk down to anyone. You aren't on a higher plane.

Clearly in the anger stage of grieving, they project their anger...


Because anger is, well, you know, the only proper response to this outcome.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

She will not run again.

I don't see the Democrats letting her do it, but I devoutly believe she will try, and not survive the early primaries. She has no life.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I think perhaps Trump is not so much America's Mussolini as America's Berlusconi.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

He appears more like Mussolini than Hitler ,but he has no apparent political ideology .
Shame he won't end like him ,hanging from a lamp post .

Don't give up hope!

Lynching a President: huh, good thing the next one's white, eh?

Because Hillary's campaign wrongly believed Wisconsin and Michigan in the bag and she refused to stoop to his level during debates.

Hillary could've won both Wisconsin and Michigan and Trump would still have 280 electoral votes, 10 more than needed to win the election.

Matfh meens sumthin.

 

[KingOrfeo]

There's no such thing as "fascism" and its questionable if there ever was.

There are several openly fascist parties operating in Europe now. It's a real thing.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I think perhaps Trump is not so much America's Mussolini as America's Berlusconi.

That may prove to be true...



... I think the great fear is that he might be Reagan.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

There are several openly fascist parties operating in Europe now. It's a real thing.

Link?

Numbers?

Percentages?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Youre fulla shit. The Jews were prolly the first real fascists. I call myself a fascist.

If you wanna get at the soul of fascism think PATRIARCH.

No, patriarchy is a much, much older thing.

 

[water505]

That may prove to be true...



... I think the great fear is that he might be Reagan.

And that's WORSE!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

No, patriarchy is a much, much older thing.

Remove fascisms swaticsa and eagles and what you got is patriarchy. Its a system of management.

 

[magicalmoments]

Left... right.. fascist... socialist... liberal... conservative... it's all bull shit really. The one thing that amazes me about you Yanks is that you label hilary Clinton a socialist. Hahahahahaha. To the rest of the world she's a facist.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Left... right.. fascist... socialist... liberal... conservative... it's all bull shit really. The one thing that amazes me about you Yanks is that you label hilary Clinton a socialist. Hahahahahaha. To the rest of the world she's a facist.

No one with any sense calls her a socialist, and what makes people think she's a fascist?

 

[Wrong Element]

In. The. Tank.

That may prove to be true...



... I think the great fear is that he might be Reagan.

Reagan's sons disagree, but what do they know?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Remove fascisms swaticsa and eagles and what you got is patriarchy. Its a system of management.

No, patriarchy and monarchy are pre-ideological traditions. Fascism is an ideology, and an extremely modern one that would have been inconceivable before the 20th Century, or at least before the 19th. See post #2. See also:

Fascism — For Our Nation, Our Leader, and Victory!

The chief objective of Fascism is strengthening the nation and increasing its prestige through warfare — i.e. Type 2 Patriotic Fervor taken to its extreme. Fascism shares Nationalism’s belief that only ‘nations’ matter (and individual/actual people don’t) but completely rejects Liberalism and so hates individuality and all other non-national senses of identity. Fascism opposes equality between nations as it wants its own to either be the only one in existence or merely (the most) powerful, but has no set opinion on equality within its nation (let alone other nations). Fascism has no opinion on capitalism or economics and loves war because Fascism is about passion and national honor, not numbers and planning. Fascism may overlap with ‘race’ and ‘racial theory’ insofar as it defines who belongs to the nation, but not necessarily.

Philosophically, it arises from a Continental Counter-Enlightenment philosophical context, influenced by such thinkers as J.G. Fichte, Martin Heidegger, and Georg Hegel. Its origins have some overlap with that of socialism, with Benito Mussolini (the proverbial father of fascism politically) being a former Marxist. Historically, its roots can be searched for in the ethos of stormtrooper formations of late World War I; many ex-soldiers carried on this spirit of aggression and elitism as they went on to dabble in extreme politics, among them Mussolini himself. Whereas Marx replaced Hegel’s “Zeitgeist” (or “spirit of the age”) with the prevailing economic system, fascists replace the zeitgeist with the spirit of the nation Fascism argues for an organic conception of a nation with the State seen as the embodiment of the national spirit: as such, fascist regimes feature strong central governments which are authoritarian in nature. Individuals are seen, fundamentally, as products of the nation (similar to how Marxian “methodological collectivism” views individuals as products of their economic class) — hence, fascism requires a strong identification with nationality and national identity on the part of the people, rejecting all individualism or identification with economic class. Fascism often claims to represent the entire nation, subservient to the State and unified behind the Leader, undivided e.g. by class struggles; in the eyes of a fascist, a popular autocrat is a better representation of the people’s interests and desires than an elected parliament, which is viewed contemptuously as a den of immorality and ineffectual bickering. Given this stance, fascism is inherently undemocratic and autocratic.

Strong national identification involves a veneration of not just the nation in abstract, but of practices seen as fundamental to national identity: this results in a reverence for tradition. Traditions are seen as important rituals that connect people to the national spirit. Furthermore, fascism tends to support social policy positions which are regarded as conservative or right-wing. However, these policy positions are conservative in the Oakeshottean sense of the term: they are considered the right policies because they are consistent with national traditions, rather than because of any pre-existing moral commitments. Indeed, to a fascist, a moral commitment that ‘pre-exists’ inside an individual’s mind independently of said individual's nationality is a ridiculous notion, as they believe individuals are ‘socially constructed’ by their nationality as was stated before. Many argue that ethical relativism (i.e. what is good for Nation X may not be good for Nation Y) is thus an integral part of fascism and a logical consequence of fascism’s belief in ‘national spirits.’ It should also be kept in mind, however, that while fascists do use reverence for tradition and national identity, those in themselves are not fascist.

That does not mean that fascism doesn’t have a system of ethics and values, however — instead, that system of ethics is rooted in concepts of struggle, power, and obedience. Typically this is expressed in the form of an extreme cultural militarism, with the military being an expression of the power and might of the State, and the mentality of eagerness and action for action’s sake.

The most infamous element of fascism is its support for Social Darwinism of various sorts. In Mussolini’s and Hitler’s regimes, a level of internal “creative tension” within the components of the nation was seen as beneficial in directing competitive desires towards the service of the State. Furthermore, Hitler's version of fascism (National Socialism, a.k.a. Nazism) combined this Social-Darwinist ethos with an institutional belief in white supremacy to posit an evolutionary struggle between various races. We all know where this led, so further elaboration is not necessary.

Things get more complicated when outlining fascist economics. Since fascism is used as an epithet and it is popularly believed that if Fascists did it, then it is bad, a long intellectual battle has been waged over how to characterize the economics of Fascism.

Typically, the term “corporatism” is used to describe fascist economics. It describes a situation wherein all the large privately-owned economic institutions (corporations, industry cartels and the like) are brought into collusion with the government and become part of the apparatus of the State’s economic planning. Additionally, private ownership and ability to do business become contingent on service to the State. Thus, while ownership of the means of production (the stuff used to produce other stuff) remains in private hands and continues to be operated with a for-profit objective, ultimate control is exercised by the State. Fascist governments also exercise further control over the economy via methods such as price-fixing.

The fascist economic system is in keeping with the ideology’s totalitarian nature, where no other institution can be allowed to rival the State in power and influence. This quality also leads to a hostility toward labor unions and other organised worker groups, with such institutions typically being repressed and dissolved. Mussolini’s Italy did in fact see the creation of new trade unions following the dissolution of the old ones: these new unions were owned and operated by the State, with very little advocacy on workers' behalf.

This system invites comparisons with many forms of state socialism, as both ideologies involve a centrally-planned economy with the State in control of the means of production. Although ownership remains private in the fascist system, many classical-liberal critiques of fascism have argued that “ownership without control” is a senseless, inherently illogical notion, and that fascism is economically indistinguishable from state socialism and therefore is a variant of state socialism. Still, even a cursory look at the two ideologies will demonstrate the radical differences in ethos, even if comparisons in actual outcome are legitimate.

Marxist critiques of fascism, conversely, argue that fascism is a form of capitalism, in the sense of Marx’s initial definition of the term (see the “Marxism” subsection above). Despite being highly regimented and controlled by the State, fascist economies still have private ownership of industries by an upper class who make profit from the labor of workers; as profit still exists, the economy is still exploitative and thus a form of capitalism. Fascism is on the whole strongly anti-Marxist and anti-socialist, and the two ideologies are usually rivals in attempts to take power during crises like economic depressions — Marxism thus considers fascism to be at best a power play coming out of the petit bourgeois, and at worst little more than a group of violent thugs controlled by the capitalist class brought in as enforcers to defend the old order (and whether or not it acknowledges this status is regarded as irrelevant, since in practice they still end up defending capitalism).

However, ultimately economics in fascism is usually a secondary concern; they claim the “Third Position” on the issue between capitalist and communist.

Contemporary fascist groups can only succeed by the use of fantastic lies to deceive the public. Whether through conspiracy theories, Holocaust denial or scare tactics, people aren’t likely to side with a group at odds with their liberties unless they convince the public that the powers that be will enslave them anyway. Most often, this comes down to conspiracies blaming some sinister cabal of ceding their nation’s sovereignty to the UN by destroying national identity through immigration which is Insane Troll Logic at its finest.