Is there a rule against questioning moderators' actions?

[mirafrida]

I would imagine they'd be screaming from the rooftops if they were doxxed (and rightly so)

I have not followed all the details of all these convoluted exchanges. I never saw the image in question. So I can speak with only so much specificity.

I'm sure you are right from a legal perspective, etc. And the site's new policy is clearly stated, so we need to abide by it.

However, I do think "common expectations" of privacy vary a lot according to context, in ways this thread hasn't seemed to acknowledge.

I, personally, have never taken nudes for exactly the reasons discussed in this thread - once they exist, they can get out. But if, say, I sent nudes to a significant other, I would expect them to keep those pictures private (even knowing I was taking the risk they would not).

Now, if I, personally, put a nude of myself as a public avatar on an erotica site, I personally would not have any expectation of privacy. I would intuit that I'd effectively moved it into the context of being a porn image - even if I'd not conveyed copyright permission to everyone viewing it. I'd not consider reposting of it doxxing, except inasmuch as I'd already doxxed myself. In that same way, I'm guessing the OP would not scream from the rooftops if they'd chosen a nude avatar and then it was reposted.

The messier case that's been brought up, of course, is if I make an avatar of someone else's nude image without their consent. Conceivably that's part of what drove the new policy, and fair enough. But in that case, the truly culpable party, in my view, would be the one who posted the image as an avatar, and moved it into the "porn" sphere of context in the first place. They would, presumably, face significant legal exposure these days, and rightly so.

Yes, sites and people downstream should also take some care to avoid being implicated in passing along rage porn. But as I said before, it seems to me that the logical conculsion if we start shifting maximal blame for such acts downstream is to say that no one can view any porn ever - from the possibility that any image might be one posted without consent.

 

[Saltfountain]

Now, if I, personally, put a nude of myself as a public avatar on an erotica site

It's not a nude of the person whose avatar it is according to the OP.

She doesn't know who the people in the image are. But she doesn't believe the to be that member.

So she's knowingly, actively posting a pic of someone where she doesn't know if there's consent or not in a public forum.

Just because someone else has already, that doesn't make any difference.

It is potentially illegal and, I really despair at how many times I have to say this IT IS AGAINST FORUM POSTING RULES.

So defend her all you want. Say the rules are stupid Or unfair all you want. Say the law is an ass all. You want. BUT SHE'S BROKEN THE SITE RULES AND POSSIBLY THE LAW

 

[mirafrida]

So defend her all you want.

Was that a defense? I was certainly trying to suggest that context be considered before assuming maximal perfidy and bad faith.

Say the rules are stupid

Didn't say that

Or unfair all you want.

Didn't say that

Say the law is an ass all. You want.

Didn't say that

BUT SHE'S BROKEN THE SITE RULES AND POSSIBLY THE LAW

I'm sure you are right from a legal perspective, etc. And the site's new policy is clearly stated, so we need to abide by it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

What's ironic is that, regardless of whether the rules, old or new, were broken, all these threads and arguments that arose in them happened due to two simple and undeniable facts:

1. There is a severe lack of communication from website owners/administrators about this particular change of policy, but also about every other issue that plagues the users of Literotica. This is a well-known problem that even those users who never criticize Literotica will acknowledge.

2. There is a severe lack of trust between veteran users and moderators of the forum (with a few rare exceptions). This is mostly due to the fact that some moderators have a long history of trolling, throwing their weight around, having a heavy hand in ruling, misleading the users, and other colorful activities that made many long-time users mistrustful of their words and actions.

I suggest that everyone here stop wasting their energy on these pointless arguments. As @SimonDoom said, only Laurel's and Manu's voices matter, and as usual, we haven't heard anything from them beyond that initial post from Manu.

For all of you who are interested in posting images, the only reasonable way to proceed that I see is trial and error. Pay attention to what gets taken down and what remains up, and learn from it. There is no bad faith or malicious intent in making a mistake after a change of rules. Doing it repeatedly is a different thing.

 

[Saltfountain]

There is no bad faith or malicious intent in making a mistake after a change of rules.

I would argue that breaking one of the current posting rules in order to test what future rules may cover is either rank stupidity at best, or malicious / in bad faith.

If it was stupidity an apology would/should have been forthcoming and would have solves it pretty much instantly.

Doubling down on their rule breaking suggests bad faith / malicious intent

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Hm. Interesting. So, since you like comparisons, what if someone managed to dox you here - you would fully support them having the right to send everything you’ve posted on here to your partner, employer, friends, without checking with you first, despite you - presumably - not wanting that to happen?
Because what you wrote is public, and you chose to say it here. So by your rationale, we have the right to share what you say with who we choose, and decide who sees it, right?
You’re giving up your right to control anything you share here?

Not true, not true legally, nor ethically, as per the very well explained points from BlackFlame above
And it only risks becoming the case where people give themselves permission in the way you’re trying to do here

When I joined this site, I took the risk that I would get doxxed and everything I've written here could potentially end up attributed to me, yes. I knew that going in. It was a risk, and I've done my best to mitigate that risk, but it's a risk I was aware of and made the decision knowingly.

That does not mean that I am asking somebody to dox me or saying it's okay, or that if they do they've done nothing wrong. Obviously, that's not true. But if it were to happen, I would not be able to stand here in good conscience and say I didn't know the risks, because I did and I weighed them before I put pen to paper for the first time.

The real issue is that too many people put things up with an incorrect presumption about what privacy actually means or what exactly is private. I spent a lot of time in law school on these issues so I'm pretty clear on what the law says and what it means in this regard. And the bottom line is the only way to be sure somebody doesn't use photos of you in a way you don't want them to is not to put them online. That's the only way, besides not taking them in the first place. That is not a moral statement, that is not a justification of anything else. It is simply reality.

Many of you are putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn't say and don't believe, and trying to argue a point I'm not making, largely because (at least, I believe) you think it gives you some kind of moral high ground. I am not arguing that it's okay to post somebody else's photos. I'm not arguing that what AG31 did was right or wrong (I do think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill, but the decision on if she broke the rules belongs to the site owners).

What I have said and will continue to say is that nobody should expect photos they post on this site to remain "private." The site is not private. The internet is not private. If you don't care if folks see your photos, then by all means do what you like. But nobody should be expecting privacy where there is none.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Are you trying to argue that if someone posts a photo on this website, it's private?

Stop intentionally playing stupid and just fuck off because I'm not going to continue arguing with a goddamn child who can't admit a misstep.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I suggest that everyone here stop wasting their energy on these pointless arguments. As @SimonDoom said, only Laurel's and Manu's voices matter, and as usual, we haven't heard anything from them beyond that initial post from Manu.

That's not entirely true. I know that on the chat side at least, the chat mods basically have carte blanche and unilaterally kick and ban by their own interpretations of the rules. I'm not sure about forum side as I only really participate in the AH and the AH is a pretty tame spot and draws little attention from the mod.

I do not believe that any moderator requires any approval from the admin for any of their actions.

 

[Saltfountain]

That's not entirely true. I know that on the chat side at least, the chat mods basically have carte blanche and unilaterally kick and ban by their own interpretations of the rules. I'm not sure about forum side as I only really participate in the AH and the AH is a pretty tame spot and draws little attention from the mod.

I do not believe that any moderator requires any approval from the admin for any of their actions.

And in reality, the mods do all the day to day enforcing of the rules, so their views matter just as much.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And in reality, the mods do all the day to day enforcing of the rules, so their views matter just as much.

Only if they can be trusted. I know many in chat who can't. They jump to act without really thinking things through and when they get criticized for it, taunt and insult, and kick and ban to cover their own ass. I'm sure that it's similar on forum side, as it is very similar mod behavior on almost any site that you can find, and we even see righteous indignation in some of their posts on the rare occasions that they stick their noses in here. These are the people with the power to completely ruin your account.

 

[Saltfountain]

Only if they can be trusted. I know many in chat who can't. They jump to act without really thinking things through and when they get criticized for it, taunt and insult, and kick and ban to cover their own ass. I'm sure that it's similar on forum side, as it is very similar mod behavior on almost any site that you can find, and we even see righteous indignation in some of their posts on the rare occasions that they stick their noses in here. These are the people with the power to completely ruin your account.

On the forums I tend to frequent they're pretty good.

I may disagree with opinions, but personally haven't had big issues with them


They're a bit less God-like in the forums than on chat

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That's not entirely true. I know that on the chat side at least, the chat mods basically have carte blanche and unilaterally kick and ban by their own interpretations of the rules. I'm not sure about forum side as I only really participate in the AH and the AH is a pretty tame spot and draws little attention from the mod.

I do not believe that any moderator requires any approval from the admin for any of their actions.

The point of these several threads has mostly been about interpreting the new policy, about what is allowed and what isn't. In that sense, theoretically speaking, only Laurel's and Manu's input matters as they are the policy makers. But there has been no input from them so far.
On the other hand, you are right that in many cases, the ruling will depend on how a specific mod interprets the new policy. I haven't delved too deep into these discussions but I can see that not everyone sees these new rules the same way. So there will be some chaos and uncertainty for a while.

Having that in mind, the O.P.'s question is valid. Can one appeal a mod's ruling? I mean, I don't even remotely care enough about any of this to go to those lengths, but I guess there are some people who do. But appealing would mean going above the mod's head - to Laurel and Manu.
Can you see them taking the time to judge the ruling of forum moderators? No freaking way.
So what I foresee is that some unnecessary tension and chaos will ensue, all because Laurel and Manu can't be bothered to make things clearer and show the limits of the new policy in some simple examples.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Stop intentionally playing stupid and just fuck off because I'm not going to continue arguing with a goddamn child who can't admit a misstep.

Take your own advice and grow up while you’re at it. You’re behaving like a child.

 

[Erozetta]

That guy tried to argue that there are reasons why people would take naked photos of themselves with no intent that anybody but the person in the photo would see them. I found that hard to believe, for completely obvious reasons.

I literally do this.

 

[Thesunmaid]

Ok so maybe this will clear it up..
https://www.literotica.com/stories/tos.php

this is the Tos all lit users agree to when using the website. Which many i am sure do like the windows agreement and scroll to the bottom with out reading it in anyway and saying I agree.

Feel free to take a gander at #13

which states...

13. The webmasters of Literotica reserve the right to remove any content or user from the site for any, or no, reason at anytime.

so...basically you agreed to allowing the people on the site who have the ability to remove things...to remove them in exchange for using the website.

You broke a rule...you got your hand slapped...and again...its their website...if they want to make it so you have to jump through ridiculous hoops to chat or post here...they can...you are using a free service..so maybe juuuuust maybe quit your whining about the completely free service you use which takes quite a bit of effort to upkeep and just go about your day. And if you don't like it....find somewhere else? Not sure what to tell you?

So stamping your feet and bitch all you like...they made a decision and yeah some people don't like it...but well...too bad? Things change...it can't stay the same for ever and you will just have to deal. Because right now all I am seeing is"Back in my day things were like this!" Well its not like that anymore. Deal with it.

I have worked in tech support for many years (almost 20 at this point)...and I have heard it all...and yeah getting comfy is great...but also change will happen especially in websites and technology. Suck it up buttercup.

And to think I used to be the nice chat mod. funny that...

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I literally do this.

Either I'm completely out of touch - which is possible, since this isn't anything I have ever done or wanted to do - or you are the .000000000000000000000001%.

And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Saltfountain]

I don't so it, so it isn't a thing

 

[Thesunmaid]

Either I'm completely out of touch - which is possible, since this isn't anything I have ever done or wanted to do - or you are the .000000000000000000000001%.

And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that.

Wow every one we found someone who can speak for everyone on the planet who have taken nudes or videos of sexy time...rejoice! The day has come where we no longer have to voice our own opinions because Sinclair will do it for us!

Yes you are out of touch...and even if it was someone else's profile pic which was public...still a shitty thing to do...art thieves should all suck and choke on a large bag of dicks.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Wow every one we found someone who can speak for everyone on the planet who have taken nudes or videos of sexy time...rejoice! The day has come where we no longer have to voice our own opinions because Sinclair will do it for us!

Yes you are out of touch...and even if it was someone else's profile pic which was public...still a shitty thing to do...art thieves should all suck and choke on a large bag of dicks.

Okay, kid.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I don't so it, so it isn't a thing

I don't do it. I don't know anybody who does it. I have never heard of anybody doing it until today. I don't understand the point of doing it. Erozetta apparently does, and that's fine. That's why I didn't say nobody did it, just that it wasn't the typical thing someone would do and why I thought the other guy's comment was weird.

You guys seem hell bent on defining reality based on your own personal views and can't possibly fathom someone disagreeing, so I'll let you all get back to your circle jerk.

 

[Voboy]

You guys seem hell bent on defining reality based on your own personal views and can't possibly fathom someone disagreeing

One of the many things Lit has taught me: I know absolutely nothing about what gets other people off. Because things I think are unusual... well, aren't.

 

[Saltfountain]

That's why I didn't say nobody did it

Statistically, and in intent you did.

Either I'm completely out of touch - which is possible, since this isn't anything I have ever done or wanted to do - or you are the .000000000000000000000001%.

And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that.

For that number to equate to just one person in the population, the planet would have to house a population 143 BILLION times the size it is now (yes, I rounded the figures to the nearest billion). They represent a figure so small they literally don't exist.

Now you may think "oh fuck off salty, I was goofing around" but that's where the intent comes in.

You deliberately kept adding zeros to emphasise the fact you either think that they're a freak or they're lying.

So climb off your high horse, stop gaslighting, and just accept there are a lot of people who are very different to you. Thankfully...

 

[Erozetta]

I don't do it. I don't know anybody who does it. I have never heard of anybody doing it until today. I don't understand the point of doing it. Erozetta apparently does, and that's fine. That's why I didn't say nobody did it, just that it wasn't the typical thing someone would do and why I thought the other guy's comment was weird.

You guys seem hell bent on defining reality based on your own personal views and can't possibly fathom someone disagreeing, so I'll let you all get back to your circle jerk.

My reasoning is basically a type of body dysmorphia. I don't see myself as I am in a mirror, so sometimes I take a picture to review later. If I look at it right away, I still see the distortion that's in the mirror. But a week or two later? I can see myself as I actually am in the image. It's how I track my eating disorder to make sure I'm not, you know, starving myself.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

My reasoning is basically a type of body dysmorphia. I don't see myself as I am in a mirror, so sometimes I take a picture to review later. If I look at it right away, I still see the distortion that's in the mirror. But a week or two later? I can see myself as I actually am in the image. It's how I track my eating disorder to make sure I'm not, you know, starving myself.

It’s also a common practice for people tracking changes in their bodies for a variety of reasons - body builders, folks trying to lose weight, etc.

 

[Saltfountain]

It’s also a common practice for people tracking changes in their bodies for a variety of reasons - body builders, folks trying to lose weight, etc.

Also people who've undergone (or are about to undergo) large medical procedures