Is there a God, and if so, who is it?

[curiousphantaC]

Prizes for the most thought inspiring post, once the thread has reached 2,000 (a thread such as this requires devotion).

If you have a faith, I'd be interested to hear what it is, and what it means to you.

 

[Xelebes]

And what is the prize for winning this esteemed contest? A cookie or a game-over screen?

I've seen thes threads before and all they end up is into a locking of horns in argument in trying to convince adamant members to go to their opposing sides. It just will not happen here and not happen ever.

Just the mere creation of a thread will result in this and therefore such symptoms should be avoided as probably the rest of the members here are tired of such debates too.

Rest assured, with team work, this thread can wilt and die into the netherworld of posts.

 

[SnoopDog]

Prizes for the most thought inspiring post, once the thread has reached 2,000 (a thread such as this requires devotion).

If you have a faith, I'd be interested to hear what it is, and what it means to you.

I'll take this seriously....

No there is not. (Even though some people believe it's Alanis Morisette)
How can people believe in God? People relate on some old writings that were given from generations to generations of people who had no idea about the world, i.e. science and stuff.
And anyone who has played this game on parties (don't know the english expression) where you have to whisper something into the ear of your neighbour and he does the same and then the message changes, knows what this means.
Then no one has ever truly witnessed a wonder or a miracle.
Yet all the things that ancient people considered misterious or whatever can be pretty satisfyingly explained by modern science.
So why should anyone believe in God when there is practically no proof he exists and anything can be explained by something else than a higher power.
also how could God allow the world we're living in?
The devil made this? Highly doubtful.
I personally wasn't born a non-believer but I lost my faith because I oh so often talked to God but never got any kind of 'answer', 'sign' or acknoledgement of a higher power.
And I'm too much doubtful about 'spiritual' things.

But don't you get me wrong. I have no problem with people that are religious (I'm not talking about extremists here)...in a way I envy them because they might get strength out of their believes.
But I just can't believe in anything that uncertain and doubtful.

Phew, I guess that was serious enough...no everybody get back to some porn !

Snoopy

 

[Guest]

This is gonna sound really wet, but I don't have faith in the conventional sense of the word, ie. I don't believe in God, as such. However, I do have faith. I have faith in all those that are dear to me; those I love. I have faith in my parents, I have faith in my husband, I have faith in my brothers and their families, and, most importantly for me, I have faith in my children.

They are what is important in my life. Without them, I'd feel much less of a person. They enrich my life, they give me belief and strength.

(I told you it was gonna be wet).

Oh yes, and I do have faith in myself.

I said, in my first paragraph, that I don't believe in God, as such. I don't believe in the doctrine of any religion, but that doesn't mean I don't think there is more to life than us mortals here on Earth. I do feel there is a greater force out there, call it a spiritual belief, if you will. Whether that force is merely what comes from within me, I don't think it really matters. I guess what I'm trying to say is: I never feel completely alone, and I don't believe that death is the end. I haven't a clue what could come after death, but I do believe our spirits live on somehow. Maybe that's why I never feel alone; perhaps my darling Grandad is here with me, watching over me.

Who knows? And, quite honestly, I'd rather not know, for sure.

Great thread, thanks Curious.

Lou

 

[SnoopDog]

...most importantly for me, I have faith in my children.

They are what is important in my life. Without them, I'd feel much less of a person. They enrich my life, they give me belief and strength.

(I told you it was gonna be wet).

Oh yes, and I do have faith in myself.

Lou

Hey Katie.
Lucky you.
But I bet you can have faith in your children. A lovely person like you must be a great mom and raise them right so they won't dissapoint you.

Snoopy,

 

[shereads]

I get that, Lou.

My brother-in-law once called me a godless communist. I told him I'm not godless; I'm religionless.

I'm agnostic for the reasons snoop is an athiest: There's no proof of the existence of God; neither is there proof that conscious life came into existence - poof! - when we climbed down out of the trees.

I believe that empathy, compassion, conscience, and the need to connect with others through art and literature, are evidence that some sort of higher conscoiusness connects all of life. Each of us is a fragment of something wiser, more forgiving, more patient and loving than we are capable of being on our own. It draws us together; it grieves when we fail each other. We know it exists because we feel pain when we see strangers in pain, and there's no scientific reason why we should care.

Snoop, I did see a miracle once. A small one, too personal to go into here, and it didn't make me Get Religion. It did make me believe that there's more to us than our bodies, and more going on beyond the physical world than we can possibly understand. It made me unafraid of dying, because I think we wake up smarter and better and infinitely more at peace.

--------

In brief: yes, there is a God and he is Al Franken.

 

[dirtylover]

Rest assured, with team work, this thread can wilt and die into the netherworld of posts.

Haha, not quite what I was hoping for, but I appreciate your point of view as a valid one. However, this is a topic which I find very interesting, so I hope you're in the minority with those sentiments.

Yet all the things that ancient people considered misterious or whatever can be pretty satisfyingly explained by modern science.
So why should anyone believe in God when there is practically no proof he exists and anything can be explained by something else than a higher power.

Yes, a very good point. The biology teacher in my school doesn't believe in evolution. Go figure.

However, there's no proof that s/he/it doesn't exist either, is there? I think maybe it's more fun to believe in something sometimes, since rationality can be a bit stunting in terms of understanding life, in my opinion...

I don't have faith in the conventional sense of the word

Yup, I'm definitely with you on this one. Probably to do with where I'm coming from - my mother's new-agey, my father's into Eastern religions (where I get my philosophical streak from), my sister's recently baptised of her own volition, and my brother has a similar stance to Xelebes'.

 

[dirtylover]

I believe that empathy, compassion, conscience, and the need to connect with others through art and literature, are evidence that some sort of higher conscoiusness connects all of life.

well said - pondering on the 'human nature' thread brought similar thoughts to the fore-front of my mind.

 

[dirtylover]

ps

Apologies for any confusion caused by using curiousphantaC as a handle - not really sure what I was thinking...

 

[cloudy]

Re: Re: Is there a God, and if so, who is it?

Then no one has ever truly witnessed a wonder or a miracle.

ahhh, Snoopy. Anyone who's ever given birth, or even been present at one, has witnessed a miracle.

I don't follow a christian religion, the one I follow is older than that. Doesn't make it any better, or any more true, just older.

I believe in a Creator. I believe that there is something much better after this life, and so I'm not afraid of death.

I know that when I worship the way I choose I am at peace, and I am stronger for the next struggle that life throws my way. When I ask for help, and am honest in my request, and ask with humility, it is always, always granted. Maybe not in the way I had envisioned, but it is always there.

I see evidence of miracles all around us, every day.

 

[Guest]

I read an essay some time ago basically titled "how not to think about god". That's all I want to address here, vs. what I think god is, or if god is.

I think one should not think about god as any kind of person or character, certainly not with a gender or any psychological makeup. To me god really is unnameable. That doesn't leave much, but it's how I like to think of god--beyond the comprehensible, beyond my imagination. If you want to think something created the universe, then it has to be something beyond our grasp. That makes sense to me.

So I do not say I believe in "God", but I do think god is what binds humanity. I believe that is the source of life and love, and yes, sorrow and death.

The only reason I go back to the Catholic church at times, is the people. No matter what, it's being among a huge room full of people, not necessarily all faithful, who make me at least "want" to believe, and who make me know that I cannot know. I think it is love that causes me to feel joy about it, vs. despair or unbelief.

Perdita

 

[dirtylover]

What did the Creator make? And is he still around? Who is he?

(Sorry if too personal )

 

[cloudy]

What did the Creator make? And is he still around? Who is he?

(Sorry if too personal )

Is that question for me or someone else? And, no, not too personal if it was for me.

 

[dirtylover]

So I do not say I believe in "God", but I do think god is what binds humanity. I believe that is the source of life and love, and yes, sorrow and death.

Perdita

Tx P - I think there are a lot of us thinking along very similar lines, which makes me happy...

As an aside - would God exist without humanity?

 

[Guest]

As an aside - would God exist without humanity?

Yeah, but she'd be pretty bored.

 

[dirtylover]

Is that question for me or someone else? And, no, not too personal if it was for me.

Hiya Cloudy - yeah, it was directed at you...

Yeah, but she'd be pretty bored.

THere's something very profound about that - (sorry, I've been smpking again)

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I believe that empathy, compassion, conscience, and the need to connect with others through art and literature, are evidence that some sort of higher conscoiusness connects all of life. Each of us is a fragment of something wiser, more forgiving, more patient and loving than we are capable of being on our own. It draws us together; it grieves when we fail each other. We know it exists because we feel pain when we see strangers in pain, and there's no scientific reason why we should care.

You said what I wanted to say, but much better.

 

[cloudy]

What did the Creator make? And is he still around? Who is he?

(Sorry if too personal )

Okay, let me see if I can sort of explain it.

First, although most people consider the creator a "he"or a "she", it is neither. It just is (according to what I believe).

The Creator made everything, and yes, is still around. In every tree, rock, bush, and yes, even in us.

The first people were made, according to legend, and lived underground, and when they first came to the above world, the animals could speak with us. But the people didn't appreciate the gifts and thus, the ability to communicate with our animal brothers was taken away.

Yes, I said "brothers." We are allowed to hunt and fish, but should only take what we need, no more. In that way, others that come after will have what they need as well.

Gosh, this could get really long.

I think I answered the major questions, didn't I?

 

[Boota]

I'm more of an apathetic agnostic. I don't know and I don't really care.

I feel that if there is a god it is far beyond what any of us could comprehend. Any concept of god is man-made and therefore flawed at its inception. Like Perdita said, I see the nature of god as unnameable. Religion, or even belief, is an attempt to name the unnameable. Belief makes you set things in stone that maybe aren't static.

I don't feel the need to dictate to myself that there is or is not a god. Belief doesn't make it so. My nieces all believe in the tooth fairy, but I'm pretty sure that it's just their parents leaving the money under the pillow. To me there is only one truth about god, and that is to say, "I don't know". Anything else is a lie.

I don't believe in miracles. If something happens, no matter how improbable, it is infinitely possible, and as such it is not a miracle. I certainly don't see childbirth as a miracle. It is the result of a chemical reaction that happens every day. Maybe it would qualify as a miracle if everyone actually took care of their children properly and controlled their breeding until they could provide for them adequately. The welfare lines would be a bit shorter if there weren't so many miracles walking around hungry and neglected.

 

[shereads]

I read an essay some time ago basically titled "how not to think about god". That's all I want to address here, vs. what I think god is, or if god is.

I think one should not think about god as any kind of person or character, certainly not with a gender or any psychological makeup. To me god really is unnameable. That doesn't leave much, but it's how I like to think of god--beyond the comprehensible, beyond my imagination. If you want to think something created the universe, then it has to be something beyond our grasp. That makes sense to me.

So I do not say I believe in "God", but I do think god is what binds humanity. I believe that is the source of life and love, and yes, sorrow and death.

The only reason I go back to the Catholic church at times, is the people. No matter what, it's being among a huge room full of people, not necessarily all faithful, who make me at least "want" to believe, and who make me know that I cannot know. I think it is love that causes me to feel joy about it, vs. despair or unbelief.

Perdita

I agree with perdita and renzajones on this, with one exception: I think sacrificing a goat or chicken might make me a lot of money someday.

I just can't bring myself to do it, because I love animals too much.

Damned empathy!

 

[dirtylover]

It is the result of a chemical reaction that happens every day.

Of all the chemical reactions that could have occured in all the universes, is is not a little miraculous that we arrived at humanity?

If I was placing a bet at the inception of all that is, as to what happens when a load of nothing is exploded, I'd think there'd be pretty long odds for arriving at self-questioning beings.

I appreciate the logic in being agnostic, but it is not very helpful stance to take when asking 'is there a God?' It's kinda of like looking at the problem, and thinking it's not worth bothering with...

Cloudy - top prize so far

 

[Guest]

Sher, you crack me up. That's a good thing. P.

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy - top prize so far

Oh, goody! What do I win?

 

[shereads]

I certainly don't see childbirth as a miracle. It is the result of a chemical reaction that happens every day. Maybe it would qualify as a miracle if everyone actually took care of their children properly and controlled their breeding until they could provide for them adequately. The welfare lines would be a bit shorter if there weren't so many miracles walking around hungry and neglected.

Well, there is that.

 

[Linbido]

Re: Re: Is there a God, and if so, who is it?

Aiming for 1st price here. Let me know if I shoot over the target.


The sweet li'l beagle SnoopDog said:
I'll take this seriously....

So will I. So I'll answer all the "Religion is illogical" arguments one by one, ok? Here's what I believe. Some by-the-letter Christians might think I'm a heathen, that's their right, I don't mind.

No there is not. (Even though some people believe it's Alanis Morisette)

Yes there is. (and It's not Alanis, although she would make quite a cute god) This does not contradict the rest of your questions. Why? Because just because there is a god, doesn't mean that everything in the world have to be candy dandy.

How can people believe in God?

How can people believe in love? Or kindness and compassion? I mean, where are the scientific evidence?

People relate on some old writings that were given from generations to generations of people who had no idea about the world, i.e. science and stuff.
And anyone who has played this game on parties (don't know the english expression) where you have to whisper something into the ear of your neighbour and he does the same and then the message changes, knows what this means.

You confuse God with the bible. The bible is an old book full of lecturing legends and mythical metaphors, mixed with historical realities long since forgotten, to the extent that noone today can tell which parts are which. It was compiled to communicate with an audience some 2000 years ago. It is of course not compatible with the way humans think and act today.

Then no one has ever truly witnessed a wonder or a miracle.
Yet all the things that ancient people considered misterious or whatever can be pretty satisfyingly explained by modern science.
So why should anyone believe in God when there is practically no proof he exists and anything can be explained by something else than a higher power.

Ok then. Genetics. Evolution. Quantum physics. Sexuality. Stellar motion. Weather. Science does a very good job at describing what they are, and how they work. But these are just more and more precise observation. I read alot, popular science as well as more academoic works, and Ihave yet to scome across any explanation as to why things are like they are.

Civilisation. Music and literature, Baryshnikov and Bart Simpson.
I look at all those things, so utterly complex and perfect in their own right, and I say to myself: this can not just be random swirls of a big fucking explosion. You may be content to be a ripple on the perimeter of the big bang, I believe that we are more then that. This is design, all the way. This is art. So there must be an artist.

also how could God allow the world we're living in?
The devil made this? Highly doubtful.

Nopes. But god created and does not meddle. It is our task to make the world the place we want to live in. God has given us this fantastic little ball to live on, to not take our responsibility, and hold God responsible when we fuck up, not that's just petty and ungrateful.

I personally wasn't born a non-believer but I lost my faith because I oh so often talked to God but never got any kind of 'answer', 'sign' or acknoledgement of a higher power.
And I'm too much doubtful about 'spiritual' things.

I wasn't born with faith. That came around not very long ago. More by my own reasoning than anything else. I don't believe in the concept of 'spiritual' or 'supernatural' or in miracles, sainthood and the lot. Let's say there are such a thing as...oh, I don't know...ghosts? If there is, they are not unnatural or goes beyond the order of things. We just need better science to understand how they work. A thousand years ago, a thunderstorm on a friday, was the punishment for not feeding the house gnome or whatever. Think of what we'll know in a thousand more.

But don't you get me wrong. I have no problem with people that are religious (I'm not talking about extremists here)...in a way I envy them because they might get strength out of their believes. But I just can't believe in anything that uncertain and doubtful.

And still, you come off as such a sweet romantic some times. Oh well.

Phew, I guess that was serious enough...no everybody get back to some porn !

I prefer to combine. "Oh my goooood!"

Snoopy

Lin


(apologies for typo-flood)