... Is there a doctor in the house?

[Blind_Justice]

Or at least someone with a better knowledge of knee injuries than me? Paramedics are welcome as well

I'd like to do a bit of fact-checking.

Setup:

The protagonist of my story challenges someone to a duel. Quarterstaves are the weapons of choice and the fight is full-contact, no-holds-barred. It ends with the protagonist receiving a crippling hit to his knee, the butt end of a staff onto his patella with superhuman strength. The opponent specifically aimed for a crippling blow, shattering the kneecap.

How "bloody" will be the result? I've had tendon issues before, mainly at the ankle and I know how fucking painful that is - no reminder necessary. How much tissue damage can a shattered patella cause? Will there be lacerations akin to an open bone fracture? I'm looking for the worst case scenario here.

Thanks in advance!

 

[UsuallyPresent]

A human-strength person with minimal skill and a metal shod quarterstaff can punch a jagged hole through an inch of hardwood - source: personal 'accomplishment'/fuckup. As I understand it, that's enough force to turn the patella into a compound fracture if hit, bone ripping through skin and causing bleeding (this part is speculation on my part, but hardwood is mighty tough stuff)

Depending on just how 'super' the superhuman strength is, skill level, and actual precision of the shot, a full strength strike with the butt of the staff could
- disjoint (knock aside) the patella, possibly causing a hyperextension and perhaps torn ligaments/tendons.
- 'just' cause a messy compound fracture
- drive bone fragments into the cartilage
- continue through the patella and disjoint the knee, almost certainly causing cartilage/tendon/etc damage
- rip through, possibly leading to the target bleeding out astonishingly quickly as the veins and arteries in the rear of the knee joint get ruptured
- turn the patella into a shrapnel grenade, then continue on to do the same to the ends of the femur and tibia

 

[Blind_Justice]

We're talking a Strength 22 Blackguard fucking up an unarmored sorcerer, if you want the technicalities. Ruleset is Pathfinder/D&D3.5

Thanks for the information, that's excellent stuff for me to work with. Not so much for the poor bastard on the receiving end. There will be a Cure spell in his future, but after involuntarily eating a piece of Dispel Magic, that won't work that well.

 

[MichaelGH]

If there is one can they also tell me who’s got the pain when they do the mambo?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIiZuAVZH4w

 

[UsuallyPresent]

We're talking a Strength 22 Blackguard fucking up an unarmored sorcerer, if you want the technicalities. Ruleset is Pathfinder/D&D3.5

Ouchie.

Hrm. Blackguards aren't typically well known for using quarterstaves, but are competent in using them. I'd almost think a blackguard with that much strength might take it by an end and use it like a blunt, hiltless great sword. Which if the strike is end-on to the knee is actually GOOD news for the sorcerer, because it ignores several of the ways to built force in a quarterstaff strike.

If used like a quarterstaff, getting rotational force-building behind the strike, I'd say there's a real risk the kneecap is fragmented and driven into the joint. IF the sorcerer can bend that joint at all it'll be extremely painful, and hyperextension (bending the wrong way) is a constant risk.

If used like a great sword stabbing at the knee, dislocated/cracked patella seems quite reasonable, possibly a compound (bone-thru-skin) fracture if you're feeling particularly graphic.

Just my 2c, YMMV

 

[Voboy]

I, too, think more damage would be done by a whack vs a thrust.

As for a compound fracture... well, the bloodiest (read: "most literarily spectacular") ones are normally caused by a protruding bone-end punching out through the skin of a limb that's bent unnaturally. On the patella, there's not much that can protrude and there's no bending taking place in the right direction to make the patella all blood-inducing, even though the strike itself would lacerate the sorceror's skin.

I can't conceptualize your force ratios; I'm a geek, not a nerd, but I think your D&D numbers are suggesting "a fuckload of force." I think that much energy would hyperextend the knee joint and, if anything, create a compound fracture dorsally, as the tib and fib punch through. But that's tougher to describe.

I think you can get far, graphically, with sound on this one instead of vision. Describing the crunch of the kneecap, done well, could be more cringe-inducing than rivers of blood.

 

[Blind_Justice]

The deed is done already (see the link to M&M 8 below, last couple of paragraphs). It's now time for the sorcerer's allies to fix the mess and since he's out from overwhelming agony and fatigue, I needed the end result description. Fun times. Thanks for all the input.