Is there a difference between Socialism, Marxism and Fascism?

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I wish when he wanted to say something he'd refrain from lifting it's tail and letting it do the talking.

Little bird, stay quiet, at least you are warm...

The Shetland Pony, like all other horses, has an SA called ACORN, and now he controls the IRSS too.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Hayek shows how the German experiment in socialism lead to Hitler as the nation looked to a strong man to end the squabbling I alluded to earlier.

 

[naughtycakes]

A_J replies:

You can have a Morgan.
You can have an Arabian.
You can have a Palomino.
You can have a Quarter-horse.
You can have a Thoroughbred.
You can have a bow-legged ill-tempered Shetland Pony who kicks at you and eats the doghouse...

You still have a horse.

What all these things have in common is a subset of the citizens believing they are smarter than liberty, objective law, and the marketplace in ordering some, or all, aspects of everyone else's life in order to make life better for everyone.

They never do, but they sure leave a lot of horse shit wherever their cart passes...

So the question was whether Obama is a socialist, a fascist and a Marxist, all at the same time...

Exactly the answer I expected from you. Beautiful.

 

[off2bed]

You people are so busy identifying trees that you get lost in the Forest...

That was my point too. They're all different forms of thievery, so debating the fine differences between them is for the academics.

 

[off2bed]

So the question was whether Obama is a socialist, a fascist and a Marxist, all at the same time...

Exactly the answer I expected from you. Beautiful.

I knew that was your whole reason for asking.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

So the question was whether Obama is a socialist, a fascist and a Marxist, all at the same time...

Exactly the answer I expected from you. Beautiful.

Even though it doesn't matter one wit what the answer is...

He's a Marxist heavily influenced by Saul Daivd Alinsky...

As I just posted to Mechablade...

Let me go get it.

You don't seriously believe any president doesn't care about his legacy?


how is he a Marxist?

His Dad was a Marxist.
His mother studied Marxism and was a member of the little red Unitarian church that preached dialectic materialism.
They chose as his mentor, Frank Davis Marshall, a communist.
In his own book, he describes how his feelings of isolation led to his seeking out and being accepted by the ivy-league Marxists professors.

Tell me what leads you to believe he's anything but a Marxist at the core?

Many of the things he said on the campaign trail about pain, reordering the economy, higher energy prices, and fairness also spoke to his natural inclinations.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

That was my point too. They're all different forms of thievery, so debating the fine differences between them is for the academics.

Or for people trying to protect their presidential pick.

 

[unregistered]

 

[tactful]

Obamaism, where is Obamaism ?

 

[off2bed]

Buyer's remorse. "The car isn't a lemon - it's a sour tasting citrus with a yellow skin."

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Victor Davis Hanson
NRO

In his Republic, Plato outlined an elaborate, ranked utopia, a good city (“Kallipolis”) run by a sort of benign natural selection. The philosopher-kings sat atop hierarchies in which occupations were assigned for the citizenry. To justify arbitrary selections, the rulers would make up “noble lies” about divine edicts, making clear that the occupations chosen for lesser folk were god-given.

Once the inferiors understood that there were divine sanctions behind their lot in life, they would feel happier. And society at large would benefit by each worker’s having the proper aptitude for his occupation. The larger point Plato was making was simply that sometimes an all-knowing elite must hedge on the truth to convince the ignorant public what is good for it.
...
during the Obama administration’s first six months, we have seen ample evidence of noble lies.

The first category is the historically inaccurate statement designed to bolster the spirits of the Islamic world. This type of lie offers proof of Obama’s noble intentions and conduces to the greater good. Obama, of course, seems to know little history. And to the degree he is interested in the past, history becomes largely a melodramatic, rather than tragic, story, in which we are to distinguish victims and oppressors based on modern moral standards, and allot sympathy and blame accordingly.

That said, I still cannot quite believe Obama thinks that chattel slavery in America was ended without violence. Or that Islam was responsible for unprecedented breakthroughs in advanced math, sophisticated medicine, and printing, let alone that it served as a catalyst for the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.

Instead, Obama seems to believe that fudging on facts is not fudging, but simply offers a competing narrative that gains validity by its good intentions. Most Americans, Obama further believes, are either too dense or too uneducated to discern his misinformation. But they will at some future date appreciate the global good will that results from his feel-good mytho-history.
...
A second type of noble lie is more personal. Obama as a Platonic philosopher-king advocates all sorts of exalted aims that he himself will probably never fulfill. That he is hypocritical matters little, given the fact that his bromides are unquestionably for the public good. Obama apparently speaks no foreign language, yet he deplores the lack of foreign-language fluency on the part of less sophisticated Americans. He is unable to quit smoking entirely, but emphasizes the role of preventive medicine and healthy lifestyles in his radical health-care reform initiatives.

He wisely calls for racial transcendence and an end to racial identities — even as he excuses Judge Sotomayor’s clearly racialist belief that race and gender inherently make one a better or worse judge. Obama, the healer, jumpstarted his own political career through religiously listening to and subsidizing the racist hate-speech offered by the charlatan Reverend Wright.
...
Obama deplores Wall Street greed and CEOs who take junkets to the Super Bowl and Las Vegas, even as he serves $100-a-pound beef, flies in his favorite pizza maker from St. Louis, and goes on a lavish “date” with Michelle to New York. Philosopher-kings accept certain protocols for themselves, others for the less sophisticated — knowing that if most people tighten their belts in time of recession such parsimony is good for the country, but it is irrelevant to the occasional indulgences by an all-knowing elite.
...
The third sort of noble lie is the deliberately incomplete truth. Obama sincerely believes that “stimuli” and vast new budget-breaking programs are critical for the welfare of hoi polloi, but he also knows that the mob is suspicious of record-breaking deficits. So he signs the record-breaking deficits into law, while promising to be a deficit hawk — by cutting one half of one percent of the federal budget. In his Platonic mind, the mindless public is both pacified and shepherded in the right direction.

Obama knows that our country needs to be protected from radical Islam by renditions, tribunals, wiretaps, intercepts, Predator assassinations, and persistence in Iraq and Afghanistan. But he also knows the public feels bad when some (like an earlier Obama himself) demagogue the issue, alleging a war against constitutional rights.

So he offers the noble lie of denouncing these Bush protocols that his antiwar base abhors — even as he maintains or expands them. He is certain that the average Joe cannot quite figure out what is going on, and would never suspect that a charismatic, postracial Guardian would ever deceive the people.

Obama plants soft questions at news conferences, lies about earlier promises of posting pending legislation on government websites for public perusal, feigns populist unease with his radical government expansion, fires public auditors who uncover liberal transgressions, and in general adopts a hardball politics that the Left claimed was innate to George W. Bush. These again are lies that are noble, in that they facilitate progressive politics that help the people — and they are presumably indiscernible by a fawning media and an unaware electorate.

So why does President Obama so often get history wrong, so often call for utopian schemes he would hardly adopt for himself, and so often distort by misinformation and incomplete disclosure?

Partly the culprit is administrative inexperience, partly historical ignorance. But mostly the disconnect comes because Barack Obama believes he is a philosopher-king, whose exalted ends more than justify his mendacious means.

Nothing more that Machiavelli's "Tyranny of the Elites" with a Marxist flavor and Alinsky tactics.

 

[off2bed]

Obama has sided with Castro and Chavez about the deposed Honduran president who Orf says isn't a Communist, by the way.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE55R24E20090629?sp=true

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Exactly.

He has a third-world attitude towards the US which leads to a huge chip on his shoulder which he acts upon...

It explains he various snubs of the Western European leaders.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Or for people trying to protect their presidential pick.

Buyer's remorse. "The car isn't a lemon - it's a sour tasting citrus with a yellow skin."

And here you see the nascent stages of the Great Republican Comeback of 2012 Stategery...

"It wasn't YOUR fault, voter...that nasty Obama TRICKED you into voting for him! Tricksy negro, he is! We HATES him! Come back and vote Republican! Gollum! Gollum!"

 

[unregistered]

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Throb's going to go down with the ship.



The messboy who would be El Capitan!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Throb, how dare you use words like NEGRO while running around labeling everyone else as racist homophobes.




We all here think you're trying to cover-up something really fugly in your own personal belief system.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

He's a Georgia boy steeped in the rich history of Democrats like J.B. Stoner.

rlmao

The home of Segregation. I get the feeling at times that Throb would love to go back to that old-time Democratic South...

He hates gays so much that he goes crazy every time you mention them.

 

[unregistered]

 

[The_Trouvere]

Coup Rocks Honduras

Originally Posted by off2bed View Post
I'm too busy today following the coup d'etat in Honduras today, where they kicked out a Communist president.

You mean where the military kicked out the democratically elected president because he was holding a referendum?

Unfortunately, that is exactly what he means.

----------------

* AMERICAS NEWS
* JUNE 29, 2009, 9:43 A.M. ET

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras -- Honduran soldiers rousted President Manuel Zelaya from his bed and exiled him at gunpoint Sunday to Costa Rica, halting his controversial push to redraw the constitution but spurring fresh concerns about democratic rule across Latin America...

The U.S. has a controversial history of backing coups in Latin America.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124628267418867961.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[The_Trouvere]

Is there a difference between Socialism, Marxism and Fascism?

If you believe there's no diff, please explain yourself. If you believe there's a diff, lemme know what you think it is. Feel free to use concrete examples to illustrate your case.

Marxism is not a political system, but a political philosophy that has been interpreted in nearly as many ways as Christianity.

By "Socialism" I assume you mean a dictatorship, in which most productive wealth is owned by the government. By "Fascism" I assume you include Italian Fascism with German Nazism. I will answer your question with those assumptions in mind.

When Socialists or Communists come to power those who were rich before lose their wealth. When Fascists came to power in Italy, and when Nazis came to power in Germany, those those who were rich before remained rich, unless they were enemies of the new regime, or Jews. That is why rich people in Italy and Germany usually supported the Fascists and Nazis.

Rich people will not support someone like Benito Mussolini or Adolf Hitler unless they are afraid of losing their wealth. Then most of them will. It is no accident that the first Ayn Rand novel to be made into a movie was made into a movie in Fascist Italy.

 

[naughtycakes]

I knew that was your whole reason for asking.

Duh... you and everybody else who can read.

You want a gold star for your forehead?

Even though it doesn't matter one wit what the answer is...

He's a Marxist heavily influenced by Saul Daivd Alinsky...

As I just posted to Mechablade...

Let me go get it.

Reading Marx does not make one a Marxist, last time I checked.

Let's pick some fly shit out of pepper about what exactly Obama is. The fact is, he's seizing property and capital with the force of government on a scale never before seen in American history, and now we're going to quibble about what kind and degree of totalitarian he is.

Wait, so now he's a totalitarian, too?

So Obama is a social, Marxist, fascist totalitarian?

Wow, I wonder if we can get that to fit on a t-shirt or bumper sticker for 2012.

http://img6.glowfoto.com/images/2009/05/25-0801158553T.jpg