Is it cheating?

[DonnaBeck]

This is a very touchy subject for me. I have written several long replies and deleted them, not hoping to attract either sympathy or unwanted attention.

I will just say that every human being deserves some sweetness in their life. If you can't get it from your RL partner, it is a damn shame. But I have not given up...not yet.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think the point is, biological factors can be seen as one of many factors that influence psychological traits. It wouldn't be a black or white issue, except perhaps in the case of a sociopath, or a pedophile, or schizophrenic, who's brain is "broken" due to a biological defect. If we take a couple of steps back from sociopath to a plain old everyday asshole, is the asshole behavior caused - in part - by biological factors? I've had to work with a few assholes in my life, (bipoler?) and they seem to do better when they get their medication straightened out. Medication would indicate a biological factor is being addressed.

Oh yeah, I accept that biology (genetic and otherwise) is an important influence on psychology. In the end, the mind is a program running on a machine made of meat, and if you change the meat sufficiently you'd expect to change the behaviour of the program.

I have no problem with the idea that evolution has been a major influence on the development of the physical brain and hence on human psychology. Where I have problems with evo-psych as currently practiced is that, by and large, it seems very interested in coming up with rationalisations for why a particular psychological trait might exist and doesn't put nearly enough effort into determining whether the rationalisation is correct, or even checking whether the premises are correct - does that trait really exist, or is it just observer bias/non-hereditary social effects/etc?

 

[walkerlong]

What constitutes cheating is entirely up to your partner.

 

[sr71plt]

What constitutes cheating is entirely up to your partner.

Or your mother.

 

[Aynmair]

Or your mother.

? I'm being dense...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

IRL cheating is what people who matter aim at to punish cheaters.

Many years ago I drove my daughter to school, and my old lady heard about my 'cheating' from plenty of her friends. I hadda straighten it all out, and she lacked the balls to smack the friends for the bull shit. There was no cheating, there was Dad taking his kid to school, but I paid the freight for cheating, cuz a few cows construed it cheating.

 

[sr71plt]

? I'm being dense...

Chances are your mother is going to hear about your cheating before your spouse does and chances are your mother is going to be quicker to comment on it than your spouse is and chances are you're going to care more what your mother thinks about it than you care what your spouse thinks about it.

 

[walkerlong]

Chances are your mother is going to hear about your cheating before your spouse does and chances are your mother is going to be quicker to comment on it than your spouse is and chances are you're going to care more what your mother thinks about it than you care what your spouse thinks about it.

But your mother won't divorce you and take your house.

 

[sr71plt]

But your mother won't divorce you and take your house.

Mine might. If she still were alive. Being cut off by your mother usually is a whole lot higher hurt than being cut off by a spouse.

 

[Aynmair]

Chances are your mother is going to hear about your cheating before your spouse does and chances are your mother is going to be quicker to comment on it than your spouse is and chances are you're going to care more what your mother thinks about it than you care what your spouse thinks about it.

I think the "space-time continuum" affects parental influence and involvement. Between the age of 20 and 40ish, I lived no closer than 500 miles from my parents and talked to them at best once a week (even when we lived a few miles away for a while), so my mother had little chance to know or comment on partner issues. That's why I didn't get your initial reference. Your point is well taken, however.

 

[Hypoxia]

Many years ago I drove my daughter to school, and my old lady heard about my 'cheating' from plenty of her friends. I hadda straighten it all out, and she lacked the balls to smack the friends for the bull shit. There was no cheating, there was Dad taking his kid to school, but I paid the freight for cheating, cuz a few cows construed it cheating.

But did you do her?

 

[mynameisfluttershy]

Doing something/anything that your partner isn't cool with, that's cheating.

 

[DonnaBeck]

Doing something/anything that your partner isn't cool with, that's cheating.

Wow. Party in Utopia? I missed the evite.

 

[jonthechaosman]

I don't see cheating as anything other than actually fucking someone else, or oral sex with someone else.
But, my husband thinks anything you have to hide from each other is cheating. I don't really see that? I think everyone flirts and most people know when to stop, and I know damn good and well he has flirted back with the women at work who are all over him every time I go in there.
Do I see that as cheating? No. Would he if it were me that was flirting? Oh hell yes.

I agree with your husband that anything you need to hide from your partner is cheating. I disagree with the double standard stated though. My wife has zero problem flirting in front of me or behind my back. I tend to flirt as well. Luckily we communicate well and if anything one of us does bothers the other we talk it out. She has stated, more than a few times, that if I stopped checking out hot women and flirting that she would take me to the doctor because something was definitely wrong with me.

I would view sexting or online sexual interactions as a form of cheating. Not as big a betrayal as physical sex, but not something present in a healthy loving relationship either.

I don't own her. I am her partner, not her boss. She is in control of her body and her sexuality. I however, am in charge of my reaction to her actions and when you are in a relationship your partner should be important enough to you for you to respect their boundaries. I will respect hers, she had better respect mine. Communication is the key. Double standards are toxic.

Broken trust is hard to repair though, and that would bother me most with a cheating incident - Not the physical part.

I agree completely.

My wife would cut off my balls if I slept with another woman no matter what the circumstances. My feelings on it are different.

I could easily forgive a one night stand or drunken mistake.
"Oh, you went out with the girls, got smashed and fucked a guy from the bar? That was stupid. I'll forgive you and hope you show a little more sense and give our marriage the respect it deserves from now on."

I could not forgive an ongoing affair, the lying, hiding texts and calls, secret rendezvous. A break in trust like that would be impossible for me to forgive.
"Oh, you spent the last six months texting and calling this guy who makes you feel desirable again, went out for lunch dates, kissed him, held his hand. You slept with him for the first time last night and NOW you feel guilty and want forgiveness? You don't deserve forgiveness. Get the fuck out."

Jealousy is an ugly emotion as is possessiveness. Any man that sees his woman as a possession is no man. Their jealousy masks poor self esteem they know their losers therefore are threatened by any attention a decent man may give "his" woman and of course its always the woman's fault and she is made to feel that way.

I am very possessive of my wife. She is the woman I love, the woman who loves me, the mother of our children, my partner, my confidant, my best friend, my lover and my whole world. I view anyone who attempts to split us up or destroy our relationship as an enemy worthy of destruction. I do not see my possessiveness as an attempt to control her though. I am as much her possession as she is mine. The only control either of us has over the other is the realization of the consequences of betrayal. We both have been, and will be tempted to explore options with others. We are human and that happens. Our love for each other and knowing the consequences of exploring those options has kept us faithful and dedicated to each other. It's less a threat and more of a balance scale. Our relationship is more valuable than what either of us may get from a fling.

 

[Aynmair]

I agree with your husband that anything you need to hide from your partner is cheating. I disagree with the double standard stated though. My wife has zero problem flirting in front of me or behind my back. I tend to flirt as well. Luckily we communicate well and if anything one of us does bothers the other we talk it out. She has stated, more than a few times, that if I stopped checking out hot women and flirting that she would take me to the doctor because something was definitely wrong with me.

I would view sexting or online sexual interactions as a form of cheating. Not as big a betrayal as physical sex, but not something present in a healthy loving relationship either.

I don't own her. I am her partner, not her boss. She is in control of her body and her sexuality. I however, am in charge of my reaction to her actions and when you are in a relationship your partner should be important enough to you for you to respect their boundaries. I will respect hers, she had better respect mine. Communication is the key. Double standards are toxic.


I agree completely.

My wife would cut off my balls if I slept with another woman no matter what the circumstances. My feelings on it are different.

I could easily forgive a one night stand or drunken mistake.
"Oh, you went out with the girls, got smashed and fucked a guy from the bar? That was stupid. I'll forgive you and hope you show a little more sense and give our marriage the respect it deserves from now on."

I could not forgive an ongoing affair, the lying, hiding texts and calls, secret rendezvous. A break in trust like that would be impossible for me to forgive.
"Oh, you spent the last six months texting and calling this guy who makes you feel desirable again, went out for lunch dates, kissed him, held his hand. You slept with him for the first time last night and NOW you feel guilty and want forgiveness? You don't deserve forgiveness. Get the fuck out."



I am very possessive of my wife. She is the woman I love, the woman who loves me, the mother of our children, my partner, my confidant, my best friend, my lover and my whole world. I view anyone who attempts to split us up or destroy our relationship as an enemy worthy of destruction. I do not see my possessiveness as an attempt to control her though. I am as much her possession as she is mine. The only control either of us has over the other is the realization of the consequences of betrayal. We both have been, and will be tempted to explore options with others. We are human and that happens. Our love for each other and knowing the consequences of exploring those options has kept us faithful and dedicated to each other. It's less a threat and more of a balance scale. Our relationship is more valuable than what either of us may get from a fling.

More power to you! But do you feel any or all of the three options I gave in the poll comprise cheating? I agree that sexting/ sexchats/exchanging PMs on sex-related topics could seriously jeopardize a relationship.

 

[robertreams]

I don't think any of it is cheating. My wife does.

 

[Hypoxia]

I don't recall if I've already said this here (TL/DR) but I'll point to my piece WHAT IS CHEATING? (linked below) and my proposition that cheating is whatever the participants say or think it is.

Life is a game. Love is a Game, like politics, religion, economics, art, sports -- a way to organize and occupy our time when we're not productive. To play our Games, we invent or accept their Rules. In fact, our lives are often shaped by the Game Rules we choose to live by.

You and you partner(s) (if any) are free to devise Love Games and Game Rules however y'all wish. If you don't like your Rules, then invent and/or play a different Game. You may or may not be able to attract other Players. That's your problem, not mine. Have fun!

 

[Dyslexicea]

I would view sexting or online sexual interactions as a form of cheating. Not as big a betrayal as physical sex, but not something present in a healthy loving relationship either.

Would you also consider sexual fantasies if they happen to involve others as a form of cheating?

I don't own her. I am her partner, not her boss. She is in control of her body and her sexuality. I however, am in charge of my reaction to her actions and when you are in a relationship your partner should be important enough to you for you to respect their boundaries. I will respect hers, she had better respect mine. Communication is the key. Double standards are toxic.

I am very possessive of my wife. She is the woman I love, the woman who loves me, the mother of our children, my partner, my confidant, my best friend, my lover and my whole world. I view anyone who attempts to split us up or destroy our relationship as an enemy worthy of destruction. I do not see my possessiveness as an attempt to control her though. I am as much her possession as she is mine. The only control either of us has over the other is the realization of the consequences of betrayal. We both have been, and will be tempted to explore options with others. We are human and that happens. Our love for each other and knowing the consequences of exploring those options has kept us faithful and dedicated to each other. It's less a threat and more of a balance scale. Our relationship is more valuable than what either of us may get from a fling.

Are you so sure you don't feel you have ownership?

Just like any other couple we have reasonable boundaries, I respect those boundaries because I love her, I respect those boundaries because to do otherwise would cause her harm and pain. I know she respects those boundaries for the same reasons, not by a threat of the consequences imposed by either one of us upon the other. We have no need or desire to threaten I'll do this if you do that.

We freely choose to be in our relationship, we freely choose to stay in our relationship and we freely choose to live in a way which helps our relationship thrive. Threats would only take away what we give to each other freely.

 

[jonthechaosman]

More power to you! But do you feel any or all of the three options I gave in the poll comprise cheating? I agree that sexting/ sexchats/exchanging PMs on sex-related topics could seriously jeopardize a relationship.

I voted none of the above on the poll.

Would you also consider sexual fantasies if they happen to involve others as a form of cheating?



Are you so sure you don't feel you have ownership?

1. Fantasies IMO are not in any way cheating, no matter who or what they involve. I will say though, that when I am with her, she is the only thing on my mind.

2. I do feel ownership. I also feel owned. It's a two way street. In my opinion we are a single unit.

Perhaps I sounded harsh in my description about consequences.

Truth is, I know myself pretty well and I know my wife just as well. I am reasonably certain, based on years of life together and discussions on every topic under the sun, that I can accurately predict the response either of us would have based on the actions of the other. Either of us, if so inclined, could easily manipulate the other with this knowledge. We don't because of the love we have.

Isn't that some of what love is really about? Trusting your partner enough that you freely share all of the parts of you, good and bad, your hopes and fears, everything that makes you vulnerable, your weaknesses and trust that it will not be used to harm you but to help you? Your partner sees you at your best, but they also see you at your worst. They have intimate knowledge of you that could be used in a devastatingly destructive way. That is often why divorces get so ugly and harsh.

I like your description of why you respect your partners boundaries. I quite agree with the positive sentiment expressed. I feel the same way, hurting her will never be a conscious choice for me. I have never, nor will I threaten her. I do however know myself well enough to predict my response to a cheating incident. The severity of my response would be dependent on the severity of the betrayal and the severity of my pain. I also know what her response would be, we are both somewhat predictable. It comes from knowing each other inside and out. It comes from having a close relationship that tends to be the envy of almost everyone we know in real life. You may notice, that despite in my harsh descriptions of consequences, the way I started it was...

"Our love for each other" notice that our love was first

I ended it with "Our relationship is more valuable than what either of us may get from a fling."

Our relationship with each other is the most valuable thing either of us have. Nothing is more important to me.

edit: I just noticed the bold font you used to pick out some of my statements. I understand what it looks like, but I am positive my wife would use the same terminology if she were talking to you about me.

 

[49greg]

I think it depends on the two people in the marriage. I also think that the two partners might have different definitions, and that one might be having innocent fun that the other would think is cheating.

JBJ's definition is biblical, but I go for a more liberal definition. It isn't cheating unless you develop real feelings of love with the other person.

And yes, I did cheat. I met my wife on line (been married 18 years) and a few years later I met another woman on line when I was spending a lot of time traveling for my job. I thought I was having innocent fun and flirting and well, more. It was all fun until She dropped the "L" bomb. Woopsi. As I broke it off as gently and swiftly as I could, I realized that I too had developed feelings for her that had gone beyond Lust.

Never again.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Yep, my definition of cheating is "whatever you and your partner agreed on".. If their definitions seem unreasonable, don't date them.

I think this is good, sound advice. Society enjoys defining lots of things that fall under the category of "None of your damn business." Couples should make their own decisions, including moving along.

 

[Hypoxia]

Would you also consider sexual fantasies if they happen to involve others as a form of cheating?

This is an internal sin, the greatest tool of holy cultural controllers, the Brain Police. ("Get'em by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow.") To even THINK about sinning is itself a sin, and thus requires confession, expiation, redemption, submission... control. Matters not that sinful / cheating / unholy thoughts have never been acted upon. Just that they have been THOUGHT is itself damning.

This is certainly a valid Game Rule, for those who wish to play that Game. Those who don't like this Rule should find or start another Game to play. Maybe the All Is Forgiven Game, or the Don't Ask Don't Tell Game, or the No Fault No Foul Game, or whatever. (See WHAT IS CHEATING for a long list.) But the Total Monogamy Game suits those who get high on guilt. What a rush!

 

[MrFoxwood]

I am very possessive of my wife. She is the woman I love, the woman who loves me, the mother of our children, my partner, my confidant, my best friend, my lover and my whole world. I view anyone who attempts to split us up or destroy our relationship as an enemy worthy of destruction. I do not see my possessiveness as an attempt to control her though. I am as much her possession as she is mine. The only control either of us has over the other is the realization of the consequences of betrayal. We both have been, and will be tempted to explore options with others. We are human and that happens. Our love for each other and knowing the consequences of exploring those options has kept us faithful and dedicated to each other. It's less a threat and more of a balance scale. Our relationship is more valuable than what either of us may get from a fling.

Exactly this. And I would add that part of the reason why this is possessive is that if my wife were willing to risk it for the sake of a fling it would suggest that the relationship didn't mean as much to her as it does to me, and that thought hurts. It is the relationship which I'm possessive of, and I would hope she is too.

 

[StrayKat]

None of above.
I dont acknowledge "cheating" at all. What I care about is that my partner stands by me and supports me when life gets rough, where he sticks his dick or where he fantasies of sticking it for me is completely irrelevant.