Is it cheating?

[patientlee]

I heard you can get pregnant that way too.

Yeah. That's how we got our 5 year old.

 

[sleepy_moose]

I think you're trying to convince yourself, but very few women can separate the two in the long run. It's not a cultural or a sexist thing - it's good old Darwin. You guys simply weren't built that way.

I guess I should take my shoes off, get back in the kitchen and make my man a sammich.

 

[smallgirl]

I guess I should take my shoes off, get back in the kitchen and make my man a sammich.

that's a good one.

 

[StrangeLife]

Lol..it's ok. I know the real me, and I can separate the two completely. No need to convince myself of anything. I hate to tell you...I wasn't built that way, but I changed into that way.
Sex is sex..pure and simple.

I have never met a woman who could, but I have met several who thought they could. So I will reserve the right to be skeptic.

In fact, my present marriage was "a non-comitted sex-only relationship"... until she saw me in the club with another girl on my lap.

 

[patientlee]

I have never met a woman who could, but I have met several who thought they could. So I will reserve the right to be skeptic.

In fact, my present marriage was "a non-comitted sex-only relationship"... until she saw me in the club with another girl on my lap.

Well, what the hell were you doing with another girl on your lap??

 

[sheablue]

Built that way? Are women like Transformers now, capable only of certain shapes and forms of pleasurable expression? "I am a fembot. I am programmed only for cuddles and sex with my eyes closed. Engaging transfer of sex in exchange for love. Buffering...buffering..."

Personally, I've know several women who were Optimus Primarilyinitforthefucking.

Thank you! You've said it better than I could in my enraged state.


I will admit that women are able to experience a much fuller spectrum of emotions than men are. We are able to become aroused through visual stimulus as well as emotional stimulus. You guys just can't. You simply weren't built that way.

 

[smallgirl]

I have never met a woman who could, but I have met several who thought they could. So I will reserve the right to be skeptic.

In fact, my present marriage was "a non-comitted sex-only relationship"... until she saw me in the club with another girl on my lap.

obviously you've never met me.

 

[Aynmair]

Certainly a lot of our behavior is, as they say, hard-wired, but we have the opportunity to overlay that with deliberate thinking. How successful we are at going against evolution must be different for different individuals.

To me, sex is a way of expressing love, and I can't fully separate the two. I don't conflate them 100%, either. But that was the point of the 3 options - there are different degrees of "sex" involved, and in none of the options is actual sex - let's broaden it to intimate exchange or mixing of bodily fluids to be more inclusive - on the table.

To those who say that communication is most important, I agree with you. Problems arise when expectations differ and are not met. I've been in a longterm relationship - when I started, I had no idea I would participate in something like Lit, so there was nothing to discuss. It never came up. Plus relationships don't necessarily evolve that way - they would if the world was a 100% rational place. But we are talking about humans here, right? If I were to turn the tables - I don't think I would be affected by either 3 options. The 3rd option is the closest, but I feel fiction is fiction, not RL. And that no other person should control my brain quite to that extent.... Just my opinion.

 

[StrangeLife]

Well, what the hell were you doing with another girl on your lap??

We were a chair short. I did the courteous thing, as any gentleman would.

 

[patientlee]

We were a chair short. I did the courteous thing, as any gentleman would.

Ha ha. My students try to tell me the same thing. Unfortunately for them, I have enough chairs to go around.

 

[Swilly]

We were a chair short. I did the courteous thing, as any gentleman would.

That doesn't explain why your fly was open.

 

[lovecraft68]

Anything is cheating in the eyes of an abuser. Simply looking at another man can get you a busted lip. Smallgirl's situation is an interesting example. Some would call her partner an abuser, other's wouldn't. Abusers want total control over their partners. They enforce that control through mental, or physical abuse. Maybe he's not enforcing control, maybe he's just a whiner. Who knows? I know I won't put up with that kind of crap.

So, to answer the OP's question, it depends...

Good luck SG.

You said it better than I could. My wife works with women like SG every day. Well the ones that unfortunately didn't get out before it got really ugly.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion as is possessiveness. Any man that sees his woman as a possession is no man. Their jealousy masks poor self esteem they know their losers therefore are threatened by any attention a decent man may give "his" woman and of course its always the woman's fault and she is made to feel that way.

Made to feel guilty and live in fear and stay away from everyone else. Isolation is the number one bullet in the gun of the jealous/possessive type.

To small girl, run while you can.

 

[lovecraft68]

Trust me. He's a whiner. No sugar coating it....ill just call it what it is.

Is he really just that? Or are you already in the pattern of defending him to everybody? Making excuses for his anti social behavior and the way he doesn't want you t go anywhere.

When you hear yourself tell someone, "No, he's not a bad guy, really." get the hell out and file the retraining order on your way out the door.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thinking that you are being cheated on, implies a type of ownership, ownership of a partner's sexual parts, ownership of a partner's thoughts, or ownership of a partner's deeds. Seems like a form of slavery to me. And I seem to remember that slavery was outlawed in most of the world over a century and a half ago.

For me, cheating isn't about ownership, it's about consent. If I get emotionally involved with somebody on the understanding that they'll respect my preferences, and they they *don't* respect those preferences, then they're going outside the scope of my consent for the relationship.

 

[SikFuk]

Is he really just that? Or are you already in the pattern of defending him to everybody? Making excuses for his anti social behavior and the way he doesn't want you t go anywhere.

When you hear yourself tell someone, "No, he's not a bad guy, really." get the hell out and file the retraining order on your way out the door.

I don't think it's a black or white issue. Where we draw the line depends on many other factors. In SG's case, (apparently) she would prefer to improve her financial situation before bolting. That's understandable as long as she's not in danger. You compare the hardship of the present relationship with the hardship of being single and paying all the bills yourself. I vote for paying the bills yourself, but it's a difficult step when one is locked into a lifestyle requiring a certain amount of income.

 

[MrFoxwood]

Isn't cheating defined by what one agrees with their partner? Some people think it's cheating to speak to someone of the opposite sex, some people are OK with their partners fucking other people, most of us put it somewhere in between.

If the parameters aren't explicitly agreed upon at some point in the relationship prior to any incidents that one party may consider cheating, then they're at least partially to blame for failing to adequately express their expectations.

However, I think without such a discussion taking place it is fair to assume that most people would prefer their partner not to engage in any intimate physical contact with others and would be pretty damn pissed off about sex with another person.

It'd be nice to think that most people know their partners well enough to be able to make balanced judgements about what they would or wouldn't consider cheating, and then behave accordingly. Acting on the basis that you don't consider it cheating and disregarding what your partner's take on it would be kind of misses the point of having a partner in the first place.

 

[Aynmair]

However, I think without such a discussion taking place it is fair to assume that most people would prefer their partner not to engage in any intimate physical contact with others and would be pretty damn pissed off about sex with another person.
.

But that's the point - there's no physical, or even visual or audio, contact here ( you might want to read my original post). Does that change your response?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So by inference, if you don't want sex, it's not cheating? Correct? That's a different definition from what others in the thread have given. Just checking.

I'm no socialized pack animal. If sex isn't the goal, then your goal is ass-kissing or deceit. When any LIT Lady gives me a wink I assume she's evil.

 

[MrFoxwood]

But that's the point - there's no physical, or even visual or audio, contact here ( you might want to read my original post). Does that change your response?

You're quite right, I completely forgot what it was I wanted to say. That'll teach me to be here at stupid o'clock in the morning.

I'd say that whether or not anything constitutes cheating is still entirely dependant on the ideas about fidelity as held by the couple. Emotional relationships with people outside of the couple could still be regarded as cheating and could be no less hurtful than physical infidelity. I would suspect that the concept of emotional cheating hurts most people less than the idea of their partner physically cheating, but without explicitly stating ones opinion how is ones partner to know.

'It's just talking' sounds a lot more innocent than 'it's just oral' but then why is physical infidelity without an emotional commitment such a crime?

I exchange emails with other writers and, as far as is possible when discussing erotic writing, they're non-sexual. My wife is fine with this, anything more and I strongly suspect she'd have a problem with it. Hell, I'd have a problem with it. But that's just us.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Years ago, in the early 70s, I played with horses and made plans to drive up the state for a load of hay. One of the paddock brats invited herself to ride with me. She was 15, I was 22. At lunch we stopped by Jiffy Burger, and she got very hostile when I failed to pay for her order. I was stunned till she told me she thought we were on a date.

 

[fma20fma]

hi

I think cheating in this context is to have oral/vaginal/anal any other sperm contact relationship without the express permission or knowledge of the other partner, with someone in private and with holding that information.

 

[StrangeLife]

Emotional relationships with people outside of the couple could still be regarded as cheating and could be no less hurtful than physical infidelity. I would suspect that the concept of emotional cheating hurts most people less than the idea of their partner physically cheating, but without explicitly stating ones opinion how is ones partner to know...

True - an emotional affair is more tricky because you can't use the "was bodily fluids exchanged, yes or no?" test. Sometimes the people who have one don't even realize it themselves. And when confronted it's easy to brush your partners concerns aside as unsuible jalousy.

"But he/she is just a friend."

"Relax, I've never met him/her."

In this case I use the transparency criterion mentioned earlier. Would you have a problem showing your partner all your e-mails and chat logs? If yes, you're probably on thin ice.


And yes - unless your relationship is dead anyway your partner will get suspicious sooner or later. Splitting your emotional focus is difficult and if you give in one end, the other end is bound to miss out.

 

[MrFoxwood]

In this case I use the transparency criterion mentioned earlier. Would you have a problem showing your partner all your e-mails and chat logs? If yes, you're probably on thin ice.


And yes - unless your relationship is dead anyway your partner will get suspicious sooner or later. Splitting your emotional focus is difficult and if you give in one end, the other end is bound to miss out.

Exactly, if you're hiding something then on some level you're aware that your partner might not like what you're doing. Of course it is entirely possible that if your partner finds out that you're hiding something that in itself condemns your actions as guilty, even if had you been upfront about it they wouldn't have cared.

There's an exchange between two characters in the pilot episode of a sitcom from a few decades ago in which they're discussing ending their casual relationship. The woman laughs and says 'it's not like we were being faithful to each other', to which the guy replies that he was. They go and she says she wants to end what they have because she found someone else and he says that actually he has someone else too. And then she accuses him of cheating. His defence is that she was too and she argues that since she wasn't being faithful she can't have cheated, but seeing as he was being faithful he had cheated. I think it was meant to highlight the insanity of female logic but it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Aynmair]

Thanks MrF and SL for posts 69, 72 & 73 - good discussion.

 

[Dyslexicea]

I think you're trying to convince yourself, but very few women can separate the two in the long run. It's not a cultural or a sexist thing - it's good old Darwin. You guys simply weren't built that way.

All I can say to this is this, Another ugly example of the abuse of Evolutionary Psychology and I'll also add this, Psychology Constructs the Female by Naomi Weisstein. Although Naomi's essay was written in 1968, you, along with a number of other male authors here at Lit, have proven it's just as relevant in 2014 as it was in 1968, forty six years later.

Maybe I'll make my wife a sandwich or maybe she'll make one for me! At least some things have changed in forty six years.