Is feminism an INSULT to real women?

[Que]

Bigot.



No but one who cowers when challenged to back up her bullshit is being a submissive non-participant like a cowering bitch in a corner.

Not the trait of a dominant personality....which would have quickly cited some privileges and definitions effectively shoving them up my ass and schoolin' me in front of everyone.

But no....she just tucked tail and ran.



Your cowardice and or incompetence isn't a lack of reading skills on my part.



No, it's not....it's a behavioral privilege.

There are no white/yellow/black/brown privileges.

That's why none of the ding bats who claim there is, can actually name one.

It's just an inequity boogeyman that's totally undefinable and as absolutely unspecific as possible at all times, but is FOR SURE everywhere.

Privilege is the absence of imaginary oppression.

Sometimes they want to argue the privilege side of the argument sometimes they want to argue the oppression side of the argument but the two are inextricably intertwined.

Kim wanted to argue the oppression side of the argument but when I point out that I have no privilege which would have to exist if she is oppressed because I would have the absence of that oppression. She wants to argue that she didn't argue privilege merely her oppression as if my privilege wouldn't be necessarily the other side of that coin.

When I point out actual privileges that she is a woman enjoys she is mortally offended by the obvious implication of that statement. That it is possible not certain of course but possible that some or all of the things she's achieved in life have been because of those very advantages. She is so offended that she completely disengages.

When the exact same set of assumptions that I have some sort of privileges none of which anyone can point to and I take offense that's me being thin-skinned and hit dogs holler and it must be true or I wouldn't be offended.

Her being offended is righteous indignation because of course every woman or Black Or Hispanic or gay who accomplishes anything in life did so over here Kia Lillian obstacles but the very same people suggesting that I've gotten anything in life ever at any time when no such support system actually exist, I'm being butthurt to reject that out of hand.

I'm sure there are women capable of reason and logic, but this would be a nice place to insert the clip from as good as it get or Jack Nicholson says that the way he writes a woman is to simply write a man and then remove all reason logic and accountability.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm looking for the quote where I said that hegemonic masculinity = harrassment of women. Still not finding it.
I was also engaging with exactly what you said, not ascribing anything to you at all.

Uh hua.....take your meds it might help.

You still haven't defined "true" feminism.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And there we have it - the core reason why I won't engage with your dumb-arse insistence that I 'define' feminism.

No...the reason you won't is because you can't.....clearly.

Because you're a socialisation denier, and unable to recognise base social inequalities

I'm not a socialization denier.....

I recognize not everyone starts from the same place.

I just don't use that as an excuse not to be a productive member of society.

There are too many people who came from the same or worse that do just fine and in some cases far better than most to say "it's skin color!!" like a fucking moronic SJW leftist.

Then how come my old man, a Korean war refugee, in 1950's/60s'' TEXAS was able to rise up?

According to the intersectional dipshits he's an oppressed minority!!! He should be living in abject poverty a VICTIM of whiteness, the terrible disease that is the source of all our societies woes!!!

Oprah...how is that even possible!!!! She's surrounded by WHITE people!!!! Even white MALES!!!OMG!!!! The horror!!

Tha fuck outta here with that shit....that's excuse making.

Like a morbidly obese person blaming McD's because they can't control themselves.

and assume that everyone exits the uterus with exactly the same life chances as everyone else (except, I guess, the life chances that are created by biology).

I don't.

Why are you making this shit up?

That is why I'm not defining feminism - because there is utterly no point engaging in the conversation with someone who believes that.

Happy now?

The beliefs you've made up for me don't explain why the standard definition of feminism isn't valid but your TOP SECRET definition of "true" feminism isn't worth sharing.

No....you're not doing it because you can't.

There is no definition of "true" feminism, you're full of shit.

 

[KimGordon67]

Privilege is the absence of imaginary oppression.

Sometimes they want to argue the privilege side of the argument sometimes they want to argue the oppression side of the argument but the two are inextricably intertwined.

Kim wanted to argue the oppression side of the argument but when I point out that I have no privilege which would have to exist if she is oppressed because I would have the absence of that oppression. She wants to argue that she didn't argue privilege merely her oppression as if my privilege wouldn't be necessarily the other side of that coin.

When I point out actual privileges that she is a woman enjoys she is mortally offended by the obvious implication of that statement. That it is possible not certain of course but possible that some or all of the things she's achieved in life have been because of those very advantages. She is so offended that she completely disengages.

When the exact same set of assumptions that I have some sort of privileges none of which anyone can point to and I take offense that's me being thin-skinned and hit dogs holler and it must be true or I wouldn't be offended.

Her being offended is righteous indignation because of course every woman or Black Or Hispanic or gay who accomplishes anything in life did so over here Kia Lillian obstacles but the very same people suggesting that I've gotten anything in life ever at any time when no such support system actually exist, I'm being butthurt to reject that out of hand.

I'm sure there are women capable of reason and logic, but this would be a nice place to insert the clip from as good as it get or Jack Nicholson says that the way he writes a woman is to simply write a man and then remove all reason logic and accountability.

If you think so ... that's not really what happened at all, but if you need to believe all that incoherent crap, go for it.

I'd also note that I engaged with numerous of your points, head-on and specifically, and you chose to ignore all of those statements.
As usual. Which, again, is precisely why I'm not engaging - because neither you nor Bot (nor a whole of people on the GB) can actually maintain a linear argument in which points are actually engaged with, and evidence is provided.

Also, I don't recall even once said that I'd had issues with achieving anything related to my career because of gender oppression - I don't happen to believe that to be the case for myself. I'm also fully aware that that's because of a series of variables which happened to work in my favour, and that it isn't the case for many women.
I also don't recall ever once said you personally achieved anything because of privilege. I have absolutely no idea whether you have or not.

 

[KimGordon67]

No...the reason you won't is because you can't.....clearly.



I'm not a socialization denier.....

I recognize not everyone starts from the same place.

I just don't use that as an excuse not to be a productive member of society.

There are too many people who came from the same or worse that do just fine and in some cases far better than most to say "it's skin color!!" like a fucking moronic SJW leftist.



I don't.

Why are you making this shit up?



The beliefs you've made up for me don't explain why the standard definition of feminism isn't valid but your TOP SECRET definition of "true" feminism isn't worth sharing.

No....you're not doing it because you can't.

There is no definition of "true" feminism, you're full of shit.

See post #367, the first two lines, where you fairly clearly stated that black Americans were solely responsible for their low status.

Why don't you just look feminism up in a dictionary - you're pretty fond of doing that as the definitive answer to anything, and obviously dictionary definitions are the only ones you give any credence to. Why the fuck do you want me to define it - what appreciable difference could it make to you? You have nil desire to actually learn anything related to feminism, and will just engage in ridiculous semantic debates and cherry picked 'evidence' to 'prove' that women aren't more likely to experience a range of disadvantages. You've demonstrated again and again that this is the case ... why on earth would I waste my time starting that chain of 'logic' off again? Seriously ... why?

 

[Hal9000_]

I still can't figure out how women bleed for days and not die.



Witchcraft!

 

[KimGordon67]

I still can't figure out how women bleed for days and not die.



Witchcraft!

It's not our blood.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Why don't you just look it up in a dictionary - you're pretty fond of doing that as the definitive answer to anything.

I did, you rejected it.

That's why I asked you to define your definition of "TRUE" feminism.....at which point you promptly decided that was TOP SECRET information.


Man between Kirks' denial of all academic references in favor of buzzfeed, Oblimo calling Britannica bullshit and your rejection of Oxford English Dictionary I'm starting to notice a pattern among the far left.

Oh and then the social constructionism.....biology denial.


"PAY NO ATTENTION TO HORMONE THERAPY AND PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICATION BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!"

It's all a social construct!!!

 

[BotanyBoy]

See post #367, the first two lines, where you fairly clearly stated that black Americans were solely responsible for their low status.

Yea....so?

That doesn't mean I don't recognize not everyone gets the same start in life.

I just don't see that as an excuse not to do something about it.

 

[Hal9000_]

It's not our blood.

Always the givers. Jeez.

Milk isn't good enough?

 

[KimGordon67]

I did, you rejected it.

That's why I asked you to define your definition of "TRUE" feminism.....at which point you promptly decided that was TOP SECRET information.


Man between Kirks' denial of all academic references in favor of buzzfeed, Oblimo calling Britannica bullshit and your rejection of Oxford English Dictionary I'm starting to notice a pattern among the far left.

Oh and then the social constructionism.....biology denial.


"PAY NO ATTENTION TO HORMONE THERAPY AND PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICATION BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!"

It's all a social construct!!!

Then you have a definition. You should be happy. My rejection of it is neither here nor there.

(Social constructionism doesn't inevitably = biology denial. I understand that it's difficult for you to comprehend that one could believe that both influence things, because your world is so inherently black and white ... but trust me, it does happen.)

I'll leave you with you dictionary, and nice simple explanations for everything. Have fun with that.

 

[Kirkrapine]

It's not our blood.

It's the lining of the uterus. But I don't understand why it needs to be expelled and renewed.

What's the difference between a woman with PMS and a pit bull with rabies?

Lipstick.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yea....so?

That doesn't mean I don't recognize not everyone gets the same start in life.

I just don't see that as an excuse not to do something about it.

Because clearly everyone is totally able to do everything they could possibly want to in life.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Man between Kirks' denial of all academic references in favor of buzzfeed . . .

I've never looked at Buzzfeed. I'm not even clear on what it is.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You have nil desire to actually learn anything related to feminism,

If by "learn" you mean blindly accepting the divine word as facts NEVER!! EVER EVER EVER TO BE QUESTIONED!!!!

Then yea I have no interest in hearing you preach.

But learn and discuss, always.

and will just engage in ridiculous semantic debates and cherry picked 'evidence' to 'prove' that women aren't more likely to experience a range of disadvantages.
You've demonstrated again and again that this is the case ...

Except I've never done that, I openly admit women face a unique set of challenges.

I just don't think those challenges include the evil white male patriarchy boogieman.

why on earth would I waste my time starting that chain of 'logic' off again? Seriously ... why?

IDK you fabricated damn near all of it.....your fantasy.

 

[Kirkrapine]

i am lucky enough to live in a lovely place with people i love, and a whole lot of others i've met are really REALLY nice people, of all ages... the weirdness is in all the little everyday things that are different to how they're done/spoken/meant/planned/driven/explained/eaten... even down to funerals! and then there's the whole medical world here. and a much greater emphasis on bloody religion! religion (for the majority) in the uk is way less important in an individual's life than it was - say - 50 years ago in the uk. maybe because this is a more rural area, as well as being southern america, it just seems that way here. maybe in a big city it's more, well, has a more modern vibe going on? i was raised countryside, not a townie, then lived in more urban areas, so it's been great coming back to the country again. thank goodness H isn't religious.

Europe is post-Christian. The USA isn't. This country was founded in large part by zealous religious dissidents.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Except I've never done that, I openly admit women face a unique set of challenges.

I just don't think those challenges include the evil white male patriarchy boogieman.

What else could they include?

 

[Hal9000_]

Because clearly everyone is totally able to do everything they could possibly want to in life.

Who isn't? (In the USA, at least?)

 

[KimGordon67]

Privilege is the absence of imaginary oppression.

Sometimes they want to argue the privilege side of the argument sometimes they want to argue the oppression side of the argument but the two are inextricably intertwined.

Kim wanted to argue the oppression side of the argument but when I point out that I have no privilege which would have to exist if she is oppressed because I would have the absence of that oppression. She wants to argue that she didn't argue privilege merely her oppression as if my privilege wouldn't be necessarily the other side of that coin.

When I point out actual privileges that she is a woman enjoys she is mortally offended by the obvious implication of that statement. That it is possible not certain of course but possible that some or all of the things she's achieved in life have been because of those very advantages. She is so offended that she completely disengages.

When the exact same set of assumptions that I have some sort of privileges none of which anyone can point to and I take offense that's me being thin-skinned and hit dogs holler and it must be true or I wouldn't be offended.

Her being offended is righteous indignation because of course every woman or Black Or Hispanic or gay who accomplishes anything in life did so over here Kia Lillian obstacles but the very same people suggesting that I've gotten anything in life ever at any time when no such support system actually exist, I'm being butthurt to reject that out of hand.

I'm sure there are women capable of reason and logic, but this would be a nice place to insert the clip from as good as it get or Jack Nicholson says that the way he writes a woman is to simply write a man and then remove all reason logic and accountability.

Actually, on reflection, what I'm getting from your argument is that you honestly think that if a woman or a black person gets a job, or any other achievement, ahead of a white man, it must be because of positive discrimination, and can't possibly be based on their actual merit.

... and before you come back and say 'well, people say that white men only get jobs etc because of privilege' ... that's patently not the case. I've yet to see anyone say that's ALWAYS the explanation. (The notion of 'masculine privilege' is also a lot more complex than that, but I know neither you nor Bot can handle a complex concept, so I'll just leave it at that.)

 

[KimGordon67]

If by "learn" you mean blindly accepting the divine word as facts NEVER!! EVER EVER EVER TO BE QUESTIONED!!!!

Then yea I have no interest in hearing you preach.

But learn and discuss, always.



Except I've never done that, I openly admit women face a unique set of challenges.

I just don't think those challenges include the evil white male patriarchy boogieman.



IDK you fabricated damn near all of it.....your fantasy.

You don't want to 'learn and discuss' at all - if you did, you wouldn't set up the straw feminist in order to dismiss an entire social movement.

 

[KimGordon67]

What else could they include?

Basically he's just mashed together a whole lot of words there so that if you argue against one, he can mobilise another one ... e.g. by citing instances of black men being misogynistic or something ... anything really.

The 'unique set of challenges' will probably be biological, because apparently that's the only meaningful difference between men and women.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'll leave you with you dictionary, and nice simple explanations for everything. Have fun with that.

Gonna have to seeing as the definition of "TRUE" feminism is clearly staying super TOP SECRET!!!!

Because clearly everyone is totally able to do everything they could possibly want to in life.

Where did you come up with this insane shit?

I'm a 6'4" 230lb Scandinavian/mongol....just because I'll never be a horse jokey doesn't make me oppressed or smaller people "privileged".

That being said I'm STILL RESPONSIBLE for feeding and housing myself....regardless of how hard those oppressive small people with their vile PRIVILEGES stomped on my hopes and dreams.

Sounds silly right? Yea...it's just as silly coming from every other group of victims crying about how it's not fair some other person or group has more and how that makes them VICTIMS DAMN IT!!!

Not everyone gets to be a rock star....tough shit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What else could they include?

Parents, wealth, access to education, personal desire to improve ones stature in life, self discipline.

Who isn't? (In the USA, at least?)

That's going to be another TOP SECRET answer. LOL

You don't want to 'learn and discuss' at all - if you did, you wouldn't set up the straw feminist in order to dismiss an entire social movement.

Sure I or I wouldn't be here asking you to explain how the OED definition of feminist is a straw feminist.

Again, if you're going to reject the dictionary/encyclopedia.....you'll have to give me your personal definition of feminist. Otherwise you're just running around with a goalpost and the one who isn't at all interested in discussing shit.

Basically he's just mashed together a whole lot of words there so that if you argue against one, he can mobilise another one ... e.g. by citing instances of black men being misogynistic or something ... anything really.

The 'unique set of challenges' will probably be biological, because apparently that's the only meaningful difference between men and women.

Biological factors do play into it....I know that's a mind bending bit of reality that just irks you to no end.

But it's true.....damn that biology eh??

 

[KimGordon67]

Parents, wealth, access to education, personal desire to improve ones stature in life, self discipline.



That's going to be another TOP SECRET answer. LOL



Sure I or I wouldn't be here asking you to explain how the OED definition of feminist is a straw feminist.

Again, if you're going to reject the dictionary/encyclopedia.....you'll have to give me your personal definition of feminist. Otherwise you're just running around with a goalpost and the one who isn't at all interested in discussing shit.



Biological factors do play into it....I know that's a mind bending bit of reality that just irks you to no end.

But it's true.....damn that biology eh??

I never said "the OED definition of feminist is a straw feminist".

I've never said biology has no influence on things - I know you like to imagine that's what I believe, but it simply isn't the case.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I never said "the OED definition of feminist is a straw feminist".

I've never said biology has no influence on things - I know you like to imagine that's what I believe, but it simply isn't the case.

Oh you don't like ascription?

No shit.......

I'll stop if you stop.

Or I can pretend to be a mind reader like you next.

All up to you.