Is being Jewish a race or religion?

[p_p_man]

I know that the citizens of Israel are called Israelis and that they includes a large number of Jews and non-Jews alike.

But when I've read about Jews in the past sometimes the word is used as if describing a race of people and sometimes as if describing a religious group.

Which one is it? Or can it be used both ways?

My problem in logic is that if Jews are a race of people doesn't that make those living in Israel foreigners to that country?

And if the word Jew is used to describe a member of a religious group then isn't the phrase "Jewish homeland" inappropriate?

 

[Todd]

well its like this . . .

Nah, I will let an atheist tell the story, that way I won't be accused of being to dogmatic and fundamental and fanatical.

 

[Never]

Judaism is a religion which originated with the Jews
- an ethnic group.

 

[bluntforcemama]

It's a culture. You're born into it if your mother is Jewish, whether she practices or not. So in my family, my dad is the last Jewish-born child unless his sister has a child.

 

[Never]

It's an ethnic group with its own culture - but that doesn't make it a culture.

 

[bluntforcemama]

But there are people who can be introduced into it without being born into it.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

But there are people who can be introduced into it without being born into it.

Right. What would you call converts to Judaism like the late Sammy Davis, Jr.? If you're a practicing Jew doesn't that make you Jewish?

Conversely if you were born into a Jewish family and you converted to another religion it would seem odd for you to still be referred to as a Jew.

I understand that for the vast majority of Jews, their religion and their ethnicity is tied together, but I don't think it's necessarily so.

What are you doing starting threads that don't bash America, ppman? Are you feeling ok?

 

[p_p_man]

"I OBJECT!!"

What are you doing starting threads that don't bash America, ppman? Are you feeling ok?

Objection sustained


"Thank you"

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

My problem in logic is that if Jews are a race of people doesn't that make those living in Israel foreigners to that country?

And if the word Jew is used to describe a member of a religious group then isn't the phrase "Jewish homeland" inappropriate?

just teasin' ya, peeps.

Now that I think about it, Jews are definitely both an ethnic group and a religion. I don't think the Nazis had any problem with the Jewish religion per se, but rather with the Jews as race of supposed subhuman people. It is kinda confusing, isn't it?

Don't know about it being a "race", though. I tend to think of race as being a somewhat broader category than "ethnicity". Don't really know, though.

 

[Mensa]

Theocracy

Jews are members of the Semitic race, the same as Arabs. Being Jewish is both a religion and a distinct cultural group. The genesis of which is their covenant with God whereby their pledge to worship Him and Him alone caused their distinctiveness. God's chosen people.

The term Jewish, however, does not include all those covered by said covenant. The nation or people were originally Israel. A schism occurred when the ten tribes excluding the houses of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi formed their own separate nation. It was called Israel and the remaining three formed the Kingdom of Judah. This is the beginning of the name Jew.

The Kingdom of Israel began to perform rituals that were anathema to God and in punishment, He caused them to be conquered. Whatever became of them remains a mystery to this day. That is why they are referred to as "The Ten Lost Tribes".

It is the descendants of the Kingdom of Judah that are called Jews today. Ironically, when they regained their mid-eastern homeland, they chose to name it Israel even though their anscestors broke away from the original Israel.

 

[p_p_man]

Thanks...

...uh how do I join Mensa?...

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Was that your answer Todd?

 

[Guest]

It's a culture. You're born into it if your mother is Jewish, whether she practices or not. So in my family, my dad is the last Jewish-born child unless his sister has a child.

Why is it a culture only of your mother is born into it? Being in your blood, seeing as how your father is Jewish, then why aren't you or any other siblings, etc.?


My opinion is it's a religion. Just like other religions, if your family line was any certain one, then it is in your blood too, but you may not be practicing in that particular religion.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I am probably wrong,

but many cultures follow the maternal line.

All the articles about the "Eve" in SciAm and other places. They trace the history of man through the female mitochondia or some such two-dolla' word.

Just a guess.

PS

I know a jew who thinks he is a Shaolin Monk. Is that a dichotomy?

 

[p_p_man]

Yes I tend to think that way too...

My opinion is it's a religion. Just like other religions

Otherwise practically every nation in the world would have, within its borders, a race of people who do not necessarily think of themselves as citizens of that country. And then a question of doubt would arise over their true nationality and allegiance.

Yep I'd say it was a religion...

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Like illegal Mexican immigrants in the SW United States?

 

[crystalhunting]

I think Myst and Pyper can best answer this question.


but my 2 cents worth is this....Jews are of the tribe of Judah one tribe on the Hebrews...when the so called lost tribes were conquered and scattered,they became what was left of Isreal.

I believe it is an ethnic group as well as a culture with a religion...it certainly falls into all those categories.


Myst,Pyper....please correct me if I am wrong.


CH

 

[Demian]

Sitting at the foot Of God

Are Ismael and Isaac BrotherZ?

 

[dza]

jews are NOT an ethnic group. Jews come in all races, creeds and sizes. it is a cultural group, true. It is certainly not a race, as in white, black, asian, jew.... Nope. Maternal, yes, just like Catholicism is paternal (or so my catholic/jewish girlfriend tells me). Hebrew is the language. First and foremost its a religion. As a historical trueism, jews really haven't been welcomed in most nations and (to a certain extent on our own accord) have keep to ourselves in a effort to maintain our hertiage (5800 lunar years and counting)....

I understand there is a lot of confusion out there regarding jews, though this probably stems from about 2000 years of being Europe's favorite whipping posts.

Case in point my grandmother's exit visa from Austria circa 1926 -

eyes - brown
hair - brown
height - 5'1"
nose - Jewish
etc.....


ah Europe, land of toleration

 

[beckbabe]

dza!! So excellent to see you!

You said it too, some Jews are even black, and I don't mean conversions.

 

[dza]

hey, hey, beck

keep on keeping on

 

[miles]

dza

If we really want to make them meshugge, let's tell them about Ashkenaze or Sepahardic, a Kohen, Levite, etc.

 

[Pyper]

Woo hoo, an actual part-Jewish person weighs in on the issue! (Me, that is. )

I would agree with crystalhunting that "Jewish" can be a culture, an ethnicity, or a religion. I would not say it is a "race", as I do not believe that races actually exist...they are only a social construction.

Using myself as an example for the above statement, I will try to explain it like this:

I am part of the Jewish culture, because I eat foods, tell stories, and share traditions typical of the Hebrew people, by virtue of my father's family. These traditions may or may not be religious in nature.

My ethnicity is part Jewish, because some of my ancestors originate from Ashkenazic Jews, who in turn originated from Semitic tribes in the Middle East. Ethnicity is, of course, a broad term which can encompass culture, religion, food, and a variety of other things besides biology. But for simplistic purposes, I am using ethnicity here as a biological term.

I am not "Jewish" by religion, because my mother decided to raise me in her religion, as Roman Catholic. Anyone can become Jewish by religion, but they will not necessarily be Jewish by original culture or ethnicity.

There, how's that for an explanation?

 

[TaffyJ]

Catholics paternal? Nope!

Catholics are a religious grouping, not race or ethnic. My father is Baptist, but I am definitely Catholic. Anyone who has completed their basic sacraments and still goes to the Catholic church is Catholic. You are not a Catholic yet if you just attend church with Catholics but have not completed the sacraments. For children born into a Catholic family, they are considered a part of the church family even though they have not completed their sacraments because it is assumed they will when they are older. That is not always the case. My sister in law, though raised Catholic, is not Catholic because she does not follow Catholic belief or custom. She chose to go a different way. I only assume much is the same for Jewish people.

 

[Evolone]

I think that the basic problem hear is semantic... we need to define terms and then evaluate them individually... which can't really be done because of the following....

A Jew is ....

A. a person who follows the tennets of Judaeism.
B. a member of a distinct cultural group.
C. a member of a particular phenotypical grouping.


The problem is that the correct answer is D. all of the above... because the meaning of the word jew changes with the context in which it is placed...



may your Gods bless and guide you all