Insightful, useful feedback

[Lauren Hynde]

With a nod to daughter and shamelessly stealing the idea off a thread from long ago that never really took off, here is a challenge:

Take time to read the collection of work a poet has - preferably, not someone whose work you're too familiar with. Give a close read for at least four poems.

Post the selections here, with links. Tell us what you think are the poet's collective strengths and what areas you feel could be improved or give you trouble. You needn't be technical, but do be thoughtful in your responses. If you like how the words fit, roll off your tongue when spoken out loud, the pace, whatever it is - be specific. This can be done without formal jargon. What you don't want to do is give cursory remarks like "This is so great" or "This sucks." The goal is to examine the poetry not the poet. All comments must be grounded in the words, the text.

The purpose of this exercise is twofold: give the poet useful information and to discover that in analyzing another's work critically can help the examining poet see similiarities, strengths and weakness in one's own work.

Let's get busy.

 

[WickedEve]

I actually remember the original thread. I think it didn't go anywhere because of the time and effort one has to put into it. It's a great exercise, though.

I've started reading Trent_Dutch's poems. No particular reason that I chose this poet. It was kind of like closing my eyes and sticking my hand in to draw a name. I've read three so far and I'm pleased to say that these poems seem smart and fresh--the way I like men. I'll be back later after I've read more.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I shall tackle duckiesmut and return shortly.

 

[WickedEve]

Here are the poems I'm reading:
Cherry Blossom
Chinese Dress
Dvorak
Drawing....
I Don't like Enclosed Spaces

I just finished with Drawing.
I drew her,
Like I would a bath.
I let the taps of my mind open,
And she came out.
I really like this. It's so simple. He draws her like a bath.

My pen skipped across the page,
to trace out her curves in words and lines.
From the midnight blue sheen,
Of her newly dyed hair,
To the intoxicating green
Of the flames at her wrists.
I personally love color in a poem. Midnight blue sheen. Sheen enhances this description very nicely. And intoxicating green!

Simplicity, color, a dramatic adjective like intoxicating are a few things that appeal to me in poetry.

There are a few more strophes, and I do like parts of them. I think the last one just didn't do it for me. It seemed a bit weak compared to the rest. Why? I will have to give that more thought.
But how can she mean anything to me,
If I’ve learned not to feel anything at all.
I told them I couldn’t cry when,
I told her I wouldn’t cry when,
When she asked me to stay, and I pushed myself away,
And her aswell.

Okay, that was a quickie opinion on that poem. The first three I have listed are probably the ones I like best, though I haven't read all of his poetry yet. I hope it's okay to do this exercise in parts. I'm not sure when I'll be able to finish today. I hope some others will check out the poems I'm reading and give your opinions.

Edited to add that I will try to tell you what I think this poet's collective strengths are once I've read more. I'm slow. I have to think about one poem at a time and then I'll reach some sort of conclusion. God help me, I'm horrible with this sort of thing.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I shall tackle duckiesmut and return shortly.

I decided to start with the most recent poem and work my way back:

shoulders
too late
smooth sheets
passing moment​

The single, most defining common characteristic of this set of poems - and looking now at the titles all lined up like that, it is even more evident, is the slow, almost languid pace. I never thought a poet's southernality could be so unmistakably recognisable. It's not a matter of theme - themes are varied and universal, although they are mostly centred on what's familiar, domestic - it's something deeper and difficult to explain.

The first impressions I got from reading these four poems were somewhat contradictory. Duckiesmut's strengths and weaknesses are, I thought, the same! - if that is at all possible. I noticed a lot of - I don't want to use the word cliché, but, familiar-sounding expressions, and well-known images:

Elusive memories
meld in their emotional
sway, entice with tender
remembrance of each

soothing song (...)​

What could be a weakness, though, is often turned into strength, and I was impressed by the way she uses these images in fresh and sophisticated constructs:

kisses that warmed me chill my
shoulder, taunt memories of magnolia
blossoms at dusk,
fireflies trapped in jelly jars,
dancing giddy in the dark.

thick scents of honeysuckle
haunt me, smell of June flowers
past their time meeting new
traces of chicory, cigarettes, sweat
from your skin.​

These are the things that make her poetry unique, different from any other poet here at Lit. It's a dangerous dance at the edge of cliché, but almost always pulled off with grace and freshness, without ever compromising the poem's own pace - the slow beat of a content heart.

With that in mind, however, I must also say that in my opinion, the very best of these four poems is the latest (which is always a good sign ), which manages to stay away from those overused expression, and instead paints us a much more concrete - if dreamlike - and crisp image:

Daddy, can I get on your shoulders?

That quiet giant smiling,
swooping his little package
in a whirling circle
and depositing her on
his back, stubby legs
wiggling against his chest
as she waits with
popcorn and the patience
of an exuberant child
for a parade that
will never come.​

 

[duckiesmut]

I decided to start with the most recent poem and work my way back:

shoulders
too late
smooth sheets
passing moment​

The single, most defining common characteristic of this set of poems - and looking now at the titles all lined up like that, it is even more evident, is the slow, almost languid pace. I never thought a poet's southernality could be so unmistakably recognisable. It's not a matter of theme - themes are varied and universal, although they are mostly centred on what's familiar, domestic - it's something deeper and difficult to explain.

The first impressions I got from reading these four poems were somewhat contradictory. Duckiesmut's strengths and weaknesses are, I thought, the same! - if that is at all possible. I noticed a lot of - I don't want to use the word cliché, but, familiar-sounding expressions, and well-known images:

Elusive memories
meld in their emotional
sway, entice with tender
remembrance of each

soothing song (...)​

What could be a weakness, though, is often turned into strength, and I was impressed by the way she uses these images in fresh and sophisticated constructs:

kisses that warmed me chill my
shoulder, taunt memories of magnolia
blossoms at dusk,
fireflies trapped in jelly jars,
dancing giddy in the dark.

thick scents of honeysuckle
haunt me, smell of June flowers
past their time meeting new
traces of chicory, cigarettes, sweat
from your skin.​

These are the things that make her poetry unique, different from any other poet here at Lit. It's a dangerous dance at the edge of cliché, but almost always pulled off with grace and freshness, without ever compromising the poem's own pace - the slow beat of a content heart.

With that in mind, however, I must also say that in my opinion, the very best of these four poems is the latest (which is always a good sign ), which manages to stay away from those overused expression, and instead paints us a much more concrete - if dreamlike - and crisp image:

Daddy, can I get on your shoulders?

That quiet giant smiling,
swooping his little package
in a whirling circle
and depositing her on
his back, stubby legs
wiggling against his chest
as she waits with
popcorn and the patience
of an exuberant child
for a parade that
will never come.​

Sincere thanks, Lauren.

I just can't seem to shake the southern mentality...oh how it plagues me.

It's easy for me to slide into those well-worn phrases. I should smack myself. I'm working on that (not the smacking, the avoiding of the cliches) and I'm glad you enjoyed Shoulders. And it's funny that you called it both concrete and dreamlike, because that's what it felt like writing it.

Thank you again. I really appreciate your taking the time and thought to give me your feedback.

 

[RhymeFairy]

Great Idea Lauren ~~!!

I think I shall like this Lauren. A great idea. I know I still have so much to learn and I am trying. I will get back to you on who I pick. I might give it a spin, and see who turns up. * Smiles *

As I have said before, I am one who goes on how a poem * Feels * I realize there are more important stages in writing, but for me if it feels good then it will be a poem someone remembers, and make an impact, for whatever reason ...

Again, Great idea and I am looking forward to this. Like Eve hoping I have the time. I tend to be a lil flighty, I want to do one thing, get sidetracked into a whole differ project, BUT I do finish, before I start anew .. well most of the time I do. *


RF~

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Drawing....

I drew her,
Like I would a bath.
I let the taps of my mind open,
And she came out.

I remember first reading that poem and really enjoying that particular metaphor. In fact, I believe I have some notes scribbled somewhere that may eventually become a poem inspired by it.

I'm looking forward to read the rest of your impressions, Eve.

 

[CharleyH]

With a nod to daughter and shamelessly stealing the idea off a thread from long ago that never really took off, here is a challenge:

Take time to read the collection of work a poet has - preferably, not someone whose work you're too familiar with. Give a close read for at least four poems.

Post the selections here, with links. Tell us what you think are the poet's collective strengths and what areas you feel could be improved or give you trouble. You needn't be technical, but do be thoughtful in your responses. If you like how the words fit, roll off your tongue when spoken out loud, the pace, whatever it is - be specific. This can be done without formal jargon. What you don't want to do is give cursory remarks like "This is so great" or "This sucks." The goal is to examine the poetry not the poet. All comments must be grounded in the words, the text.

The purpose of this exercise is twofold: give the poet useful information and to discover that in analyzing another's work critically can help the examining poet see similiarities, strengths and weakness in one's own work.

Let's get busy.

LOVE THIS IDEA
Who wants me to read a body of their work? First come first serviced by me, and I say that rarely. It will take me a week though, so ...

 

[The Temptress]

Ahhh....dear duckie...it has been a very long time since I have posted on the bb...and NEVER under this section...I only go where the real perverts post! <weg> I do have to say that duckie's poetry makes me smile...laugh...and sometimes even cry....and ALWAYS it makes me think. I love being able to preview it before she even posts! huggssss duckie!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

LOVE THIS IDEA
Who wants me to read a body of their work? First come first serviced by me, and I say that rarely. It will take me a week though, so ...

Oh, I'm tempted to ask that you do me, but I think the honour should go to someone else.

 

[CharleyH]

Oh, I'm tempted to ask that you do me, but I think the honour should go to someone else.

If no one asks by the time I wake? Then you are it LOVE THIS - very fun.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Today, I will try to check Catbabe's poetry.

 

[champagne1982]

LOVE THIS IDEA
Who wants me to read a body of their work? First come first serviced by me, and I say that rarely. It will take me a week though, so ...

I don't know how familiar you are with my poems, but you are more than welcome to take a crack at mine, just use the suede flogger though, that damned bullwhip leaves marks!

In return I shall try to peek at yours and give you a bit of worthwhile (where in hell is my brain?) feedback.

 

[BooMerengue]

I think I'll go look at Synny's.

Great idea Lauren. Thanks.

 

[CharleyH]

I don't know how familiar you are with my poems, but you are more than welcome to take a crack at mine, just use the suede flogger though, that damned bullwhip leaves marks!

In return I shall try to peek at yours and give you a bit of worthwhile (where in hell is my brain?) feedback.

It will be my pleasure, and I might even be gentle with the flogger. But be warned that I enjoy taking my time in which case, I will post (are we posting these ) my full perspective on Sunday at the latest.

 

[champagne1982]

This is a start to the fulfillment of my promise to try to give CharleyH some meaningful input on her poems. I'm not sure if I'll succeed, her work is full of symbols and double meanings, I am a better reader just through trying to second guess her, at times.

The first poem I chose:

Ad Infinitum
by CharleyH ©

I.

Early morning fog rolled
off the Atlantic, ethereal over the shore. It is my thought that the fog is already insubstantial. If you wish to add an otherworldliness feeling to the mist, maybe choose a word without so many other definitions? Or maybe not, the word play is important here too.

The spill of salt, Throughout history, spilling salt has had so many evil connotations, simply because salt was a valuable commodity.
like a relic of time Tying this image with the one prior, I imagine natron encrusted corpses or the particles in an hourglass.
filled every breath I took. The thought of salt filling the air helps me to imagine the scent and tastes of the ocean though you may want to tell us that it flavours the air so that you foreshadow the last part of the poem.

On lobster boats bells dangled inside
moist white air, Your word choice here reinforces how thick the fog is, negating the need to tell us how salt filled it is in the previous strophe.
and moorings clanged to waken the sea
with whispers of silhouettes
that stirred like morning
as I gazed over the ocean to you,
and a life not yet led. You use language so well that you can tread dangerously close to the clichés encompassed here. Lucky woman! I love this imagery of morning fog/awakening and the way you’ve arranged the phrasing, my reading was forced to slow down, nullifying the glibness I would have approached these lines with, had you not given me onomatopoeia and internal rhyme.

Whether an echo past, Since nothing really echoes in heavy mist, are you letting the reader know that the fog is lifting, your spirit is lightening and your day is brighter with the onset of love?
a déjà vu, perhaps
a longing or a knowing
of tomorrow
I had faith

that you and I would love.

II.

Faintly blinking through the canvass of air,
like the song of seagulls, it culls
across the translucent fog I thought so! The day is warming.
scavenging,
like me,
to determine whether it was memory,
future
or delusion.

Tides have changed I can’t get past how worn this is, unless you are irrevocably attached to this line, I’d lose it.
faith replaced by doubt.

I sometimes feel lost at sea
with the haunting of pirates
searching for treasures that may not exist,
because this world of scientists
of theory and paradox
keep me from listening to whispers The word ‘keep’ is the verb to the subject noun ‘world’ thus should be written, ‘keeps’.
and from seeing reincarnated silhouettes.

How do we know we are meant to be? I think you should avoid the use of ‘we’ in this question, you should ask yourself, ie: How do I know…

III.

The salt still tastes the same when I breathe
and the ocean is still filled with the same water
though time has shifted beyond youth,
past mythology and dream.

You and I do love,
as we did in that strange memory,
that amorphous premonition
on the Atlantic shores
when I was young
and you were foam born on the other shore. If you were to switch “born” to “borne” you’d have a stronger image.

Now, I know that you are real
even if I’ve never touched you
and that I adore you though I’ve never I prefer the rhythm of “although” in this verse.
felt your skin.

I rely on you, my love
as the sailor coming home relies on his lantern,
and it’s your faith
that makes me certain the sun will rise
above the horizon,
as surely as the whispers of these silhouettes
– past, present, future – This tells us too much about the shadows. Without the direction, my mind already had the thought of time movement, and I felt like you were telling me what to think. Let go of the control you love to hold, and let your audience wander along your skillfully laid path, we all get to the same end, eventually.
are the songs of each new life we lead,

ad infinitum.

This poem is rich with metaphor and no one who’s ever scented the ocean couldn’t help but appreciate the flavour your words have on the tongue.

I'll be back.

 

[annaswirls]

you guys rock. Anyone want me to do them? I promise to be gentle.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

you guys rock. Anyone want me to do them? I promise to be gentle.

Excellent. I can't wait to see your choice (or who volunteers) and your opinions.

I didn't have the opportunity to read Catbabe's poetry yesterday, as I planned, but I will now. Back shortly.

 

[CharleyH]

I'll be back.

Are you Arnold Schwarzeneggar? lol

Thanks so much, Carrie. I offered to read your poetry without concern that you might read mine, and your feedback is wonderful and helpful. Thank you, again. I am beside myself! I hope I do as much helpful justice to yours.

 

[*Catbabe*]

I'm sorry Lauren. I didn't see your comment yesterday. Catbabe has no poems here because some early ones sucked and needed to disappear and some later ones have found homes in other places. Some are works in progress, looking for homes in other places.

I can pm you some for posting/commenting though, if you want.

I just remembered that I have three poems online. I have one on Anna's site (if she keeps archives) and two at Artistry of Life (.org) in their summer edition. If you want more just ask. If you want to only do people who archive there stuff on Lit, then I totally understand that too.

Excellent. I can't wait to see your choice (or who volunteers) and your opinions.

I didn't have the opportunity to read Catbabe's poetry yesterday, as I planned, but I will now. Back shortly.

 

[BooMerengue]

you guys rock. Anyone want me to do them? I promise to be gentle.

I would love someone to do me, but it's really not fair. I've been reading these and other posts and I just don't have the wherewithall to do justice to someone elses work. I know y'all say any opinion is valid but I don't know why I like something. I just like it or I don't. And thats not required here.

Its the reason I quit posting poems here, though. All I was getting was rah rah's from my friends. I rarely get true critique. But I don't know how to give it so I guess it's fair.

But I'm learning by reading, so y'all keep on!!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'm sorry Lauren. I didn't see your comment yesterday. Catbabe has no poems here because some early ones sucked and needed to disappear and some later ones have found homes in other places. Some are works in progress, looking for homes in other places.

I can pm you some for posting/commenting though, if you want.

I just remembered that I have three poems online. I have one on Anna's site (if she keeps archives) and two at Artistry of Life (.org) in their summer edition. If you want more just ask. If you want to only do people who archive there stuff on Lit, then I totally understand that too.

Well, that makes my life easier. lol

Would you please send me the 4 or 5 you wrote last? Pretty please?

 

[suitep]

Throwing my hat in the ring

I would be honored if someone could review my humble beginnings. I think that some of my poems posted are not so good (suck) and some are not so bad,..so I am open to a good swatting/squeeze, whichever I deserve.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I would be honored if someone could review my humble beginnings. I think that some of my poems posted are not so good (suck) and some are not so bad,..so I am open to a good swatting/squeeze, whichever I deserve.

Hello, Suitep. Welcome to the Poetry Board.

I'll try to give you a read sometime today.