Inner Monologue / Thoughts on Lit???

[JanusGoneAwry]

In my stories, I use the convention of italics to denote the inner monologue or thoughts of a character but I'm wondering if that's the typical convention here and if so are their codes that you use in your plain text submission so Lit picks up on it?

Also if AH is not the place for this post I'll take that advice and move it to where it belongs.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm lazy and don't use special formatting -- italics, boldface, etc. To indicate interior monologue I use quotation marks, or nothing, depending upon what I think makes sense in the story. Or I relate what somebody is thinking in the third person.

Examples:

"I wonder what she's thinking," he thought.

I wonder what she's thinking, he thought.

He wondered what she was thinking.

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

I'm lazy and don't use special formatting -- italics, boldface, etc. To indicate interior monologue I use quotation marks, or nothing, depending upon what I think makes sense in the story. Or I relate what somebody is thinking in the third person.

Examples:

"I wonder what she's thinking," he thought.

I wonder what she's thinking, he thought.

He wondered what she was thinking.

Nice! Thank you, that makes it easy. I was taught to differentiate thought from dialog and the convention, depending on POV, was italics and a tag.

Thank's for the feedback Mr./Dr. Doom

 

[NotWise]

I use italics in the story only for emphasis.

If your story is in first person, then do you draw a line between an inner monologue and normal first person narration?

If the story is in third person, then I may quote an inner monologue, but normally it's part of the narrative.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I use italics for inner monologue, because sometimes I like to write stuff like this:

"If you don't want to see me any more, just say the word." Please don't. "But I want you to know, this meant a lot to me."

For that, I need something that clearly demarcates speech vs. thought without slowing down the rhythm, and italics are the best option I've found.

 

[yukonnights]

Since I've read here that the use of special fonts/coding is hit & miss on the submissions, I've hesitated to use italics. That said, I see italics in some stories and I would really prefer to do that in my own. Meanwhile, I usually use single apostrophes for inner thought. 'But the fact I use a lot of inner dialogue makes me wish for something better', he thought.

I have been told by others that it is possible. As I recall; one would indicate the I<italics>I <- like that, and then put a note in to flag the use of italics in the story for the submissions editor. My understanding is they have to be formatted by the editor...which, no doubt adds to the work load. So there's that to consider too.

I'm glad you asked the question Janus, although I know it's come up before.

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

If your story is in first person, then do you draw a line between an inner monologue and normal first person narration?

If the story is in third person, then I may quote an inner monologue, but normally it's part of the narrative.

I think in FP the difference between how you treat narration and inner monologue is fairly subjective and the guidance I was given was "Be consistent." One of the top ten "Writer's Offenses" is confusing the reader. Not to be confused with the element of surprise.

I was also taught to treat inner monologue the same way as dialog. New thoughts get their own paragraphs and either get tagged or not depending on how obvious the thinker is and can but does not need to include action. The difference was that dialogue was in quotes and thoughts in italics.

I appreciate hearing how you do it and learning different techniques in particular since formatting, like bold and italics, don't get expressed in the plain text files we deliver for publication here.

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

Since I've read here that the use of special fonts/coding is hit & miss on the submissions.

My understanding is they have to be formatted by the editor...which, no doubt adds to the work load. So there's that to consider too.

I'm glad you asked the question Janus, although I know it's come up before.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. When I have characters talking and thinking and acting and there is description and narration etc.. going on in a scene while I'm trying to ramp up the pace it's very nice to have a consistent way of separating all of that out for the reader. My goal is that the reader can read and understand what the fuck is going on with minimal use of tags. When things are getting hot and heavy superfluous housekeeping tends to slow things down IMO.

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

I use italics for inner monologue, because sometimes I like to write stuff like this:

For that, I need something that clearly demarcates speech vs. thought without slowing down the rhythm, and italics are the best option I've found.

That's a great example. So how do you communicate that to the editor(s) when you submit for publication?

 

[yukonnights]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. When I have characters talking and thinking and acting and there is description and narration etc.. going on in a scene while I'm trying to ramp up the pace it's very nice to have a consistent way of separating all of that out for the reader. My goal is that the reader can read and understand what the fuck is going on with minimal use of tags. When things are getting hot and heavy superfluous housekeeping tends to slow things down IMO.

I agree. If you happen to get a clear explanation on the italics...be sure to put it here. I'd love to move over to using them...I wouldn't mind putting in the extra I<work>I at all.

I recall someone saying it didn't work out on one of theirs and the "coding" ended up in the published story text, etc.

 

[KeithD]

I've always liked the italics use, but rarely have done it myself. I don't know what the most recent Chicago Manual of Style (very recently released) says on the point, but the previous manual, used in U.S. publishing, endorses straight font or double quotes for inner thoughts, and does not allow for italics. (Again, I do think that italics is the clearest.) For posting to Lit., I'd say any of these that made what you were conveying clear and was consistent would be fine.

 

[yukonnights]

I've always liked the italics use, but rarely have done it myself. I don't know what the most recent Chicago Manual of Style (very recently released) says on the point, but the previous manual, used in U.S. publishing, endorses straight font or double quotes for inner thoughts, and does not allow for italics. (Again, I do think that italics is the clearest.)

maybe a dumb question; By double quotes do you mean, ""thought"" without a tag?

 

[KeithD]

maybe a dumb question; By double quotes do you mean, ""thought"" without a tag?

I mean putting the thought itself between double quote marks. But I think it is very important for a slug to somehow make sure it's a thought and wasn't verbalized.

 

[ChloeTzang]

....So how do you communicate that to the editor(s) when you submit for publication?

If it's for my publisher, they get it in a Word doc which we edit together using Google docs and italics are formatted in italics.

On Lit, I use the < i > < / i > HTML tags in the text I submit. No work needed by anyone except me

I'll use italics to emphasize a word and I also use it now to denote a foreign language being spoken, where I write it in English. As in:

"Bite your ass," I said. In chinese. Stupid gweilo with a bad case of yellow fever.
"I'll bite yours," he replied, and my eyes widened with surprise. He even spoke with a Shanghai accent.

 

[yukonnights]

I mean putting the thought itself between double quote marks. But I think it is very important for a slug to somehow make sure it's a thought and wasn't verbalized.

My use of the word thought wsn't very clear. Would this be right? Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately thought, ""That was really stupid"".

 

[SimonDoom]

I think in FP the difference between how you treat narration and inner monologue is fairly subjective and the guidance I was given was "Be consistent." One of the top ten "Writer's Offenses" is confusing the reader. Not to be confused with the element of surprise.

I was also taught to treat inner monologue the same way as dialog. New thoughts get their own paragraphs and either get tagged or not depending on how obvious the thinker is and can but does not need to include action. The difference was that dialogue was in quotes and thoughts in italics.

I appreciate hearing how you do it and learning different techniques in particular since formatting, like bold and italics, don't get expressed in the plain text files we deliver for publication here.

I think you've got it exactly right here. There's no one definitive way to do it. Consistency and clarity are the guiding principles. As long as you've made it clear to the reader, you've done your job right.

Something to keep in mind is that the Literotica App, which can be used to read stories on one's phone, does not allow italics, or any special formatting. So any formatting you incorporate in your story will not appear in stories viewed through the App. I have no idea how many people actually use the App -- I don't -- but it's something to keep in mind. It's one of the reasons why I don't use any special formatting. I want whatever method I use to be visible to all.

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

If it's for my publisher, they get it in a Word doc which we edit together using Google docs and italics are formatted in italics.

On Lit, I use the < i > < / i > HTML tags in the text I submit. No work needed by anyone except me

I'll use italics to emphasize a word and I also use it now to denote a foreign language being spoken, where I write it in English. As in:

"Bite your ass," I said. In chinese. Stupid gweilo with a bad case of yellow fever.
"I'll bite yours," he replied, and my eyes widened with surprise. He even spoke with a Shanghai accent.

Thanks Chloe. As far as inner vs spoken monologue/dialogue do you do anything to differentiate that in your work?

 

[JanusGoneAwry]

Something to keep in mind is that the Literotica App, which can be used to read stories on one's phone, does not allow italics, or any special formatting. So any formatting you incorporate in your story will not appear in stories viewed through the App. I have no idea how many people actually use the App -- I don't -- but it's something to keep in mind. It's one of the reasons why I don't use any special formatting. I want whatever method I use to be visible to all.

Woah! That's super good to know. I think I'll be prefacing all of my stories with the banner statement: "Abandon hope all ye who read this through the Lit App"

 

[yukonnights]

If it's for my publisher, they get it in a Word doc which we edit together using Google docs and italics are formatted in italics.

On Lit, I use the < i > < / i > HTML tags in the text I submit. No work needed by anyone except me

I'll use italics to emphasize a word and I also use it now to denote a foreign language being spoken, where I write it in English. As in:

"Bite your ass," I said. In chinese. Stupid gweilo with a bad case of yellow fever.
"I'll bite yours," he replied, and my eyes widened with surprise. He even spoke with a Shanghai accent.

Thank you. This is the clearest explanation I've seen. The fact that it takes no special handling makes me feel good about using italics. ~

 

[KeithD]

My use of the word thought wsn't very clear. Would this be right? Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately thought, ""That was really stupid"".

Well, no. That's two sets of double quotes. This is a double quote ("), which is distinguishable from a single quote ('), which would be used at the second level within a quote.

The options, by the last CMS I have:

Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately thought, "That was really stupid."

Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately thought, That was really stupid.

A common use not sanctioned by the last CMS I have, but that I think is clear:

Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately that, That was really stupid. (Note that, as a separate issue, that terminal punctuation isn't included in the italics. Just the way it is.)

That's American style. Other publishing centers might do it differently, including putting single quotes into use. The most important point is to be consistent throughout the work.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I used italics sparingly for a while, until three recent stories and a few chapters in my big long thing shat themselves in html conversion, either by the coding not working at all (and showing up in the plain text) or only half working - not turning off when it was meant to, leaving the rest of the page in italics, and then turning itself off. It happened the last time despite putting in a note to the editor saying "there's html here, please make sure it converts properly" - I had to submit an edit to remove it all completely.

Short story long, I've found html coding to be unreliable here on Lit. I no longer use it, and, like some others have noted, signify inner monologue by context. I'd like to keep using italics because of the easy visual thing, but it's not worth the formatting uncertainty.

 

[yukonnights]

I used italics sparingly for a while, until three recent stories and a few chapters in my big long thing shat themselves in html conversion, either by the coding not working at all (and showing up in the plain text) or only half working - not turning off when it was meant to, leaving the rest of the page in italics, and then turning itself off. It happened the last time despite putting in a note to the editor saying "there's html here, please make sure it converts properly" - I had to submit an edit to remove it all completely.

Short story long, I've found html coding to be unreliable here on Lit. I no longer use it, and, like some others have noted, signify inner monologue by context. I'd like to keep using italics because of the easy visual thing, but it's not worth the formatting uncertainty.

I remember this now. My bubble of happiness has once again been burst by doubt.

 

[yukonnights]

KiethD said; A common use not sanctioned by the last CMS I have, but that I think is clear:

Bruce punched his hand through the window and immediately thought, That was really stupid. (Note that, as a separate issue, that terminal punctuation isn't included in the italics. Just the way it is.)

That's American style. Other publishing centers might do it differently, including putting single quotes into use. The most important point is to be consistent throughout the work.
__________________________

This would be my preferred format. Have you encountered any submission problems like EB mentioned?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have been told by others that it is possible. As I recall; one would indicate the I<italics>I <- like that, and then put a note in to flag the use of italics in the story for the submissions editor. My understanding is they have to be formatted by the editor...which, no doubt adds to the work load. So there's that to consider too.

I'm glad you asked the question Janus, although I know it's come up before.

That's a great example. So how do you communicate that to the editor(s) when you submit for publication?

There are two ways you can do it.

One is to compose in Word or RTF, write the italics as usual, and then submit that document with a note mentioning that it has italics. Laurel and/or automated process will then add the required HTML.

The other is to mark up the <i>italic tags</i> yourself and paste the marked-up text into the text box. For a short document you can do this for each italic individually, but for longer works that gets tedious and error-prone. What I do is to compose in Word, using ctrl-I for italics, and then when I'm done I use the search and replace functionality to add a <i></i> around every instance of italic text.

This approach means you can preview the italics and you're not relying on the site to add them.

As EB notes, HTML tagging in Literotica does occasionally get b0rked. I suspect some of this occurs when Literotica puts a page break in the middle of tagged text. If you're writing multiple paragraphs of italics, it may help to tag each paragraph individually; if you're using the search-and-replace trick, you can switch off italics just before each carriage return and then switch it on again at the start of the new line.

If the mobile reader doesn't display italics, then that's a shame, but IMHO that would be better addressed by upgrading the reader so it does. For reader software written in the 21st century not to be able to handle italics is a major deficiency, and writers shouldn't feel obliged to work around that.

 

[KeithD]

I might note that, if you use italics for this Web site, and you've slugged it clearly as a thought, it will come out fine even in platforms that don't have italics.