In defense of Homeland Security & Patriots Act

[Cherry]

Quoting Laurel here, as this was a strongly felt belief expressed:

All the lip service to Freedom and America that I hear today, while we've been holding dozens of people who happen to be Arab without any kind of case against them - students, families, people totally without any "terrorist" background, with no evidence of wrongdoing - without releasing their names, for nearly a year. But that's okay, because they have brown skin and don't come from here so the Constitution doesn't apply.


If a horrific crime killing 3,000 people was committed by 20 blonde-haired, blue-eyed, light-skinned women with a southern accent ... would you think that the police should interogate dark-haired, brown-eyed, dark-skinned men with a northern accent? Orrrrrrrrr, perhaps investigate the commonalities of the suspects who committed the crime?

The point being, of course, the atrocity of September 11, 2001 is being investigated based on the recognized profile of both their middle-eastern nationality, as well as their religious zeal and expressed hatred for the United States. It would be ridiculous to do otherwise.

Of the suspects detained, there was a valid reason for detainment (immigration violations) in each and every case. I doubt we are privy to the reasons to suspect the ones held longer, as that would jeapordize the judicial process.

Secondly, the constitutional rights, you suggest are being trampled on, are guaranteed to Americans ... foreigners who come into our country illegally, or stay illegally, with the specific intention of destroying our nation and killing innocent Americans, are NOT entitled to our constitutional rights.

Our country is still very much in danger from terrorist attacks. Proof that the current system is necessary and working follows in two of today's articles.

 

[Cherry]

6 in custody in terror probe in Baltimore
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020912-19185744.htm


     U.S. security agencies remained on heightened alert through the anniversary of September 11 as terrorist suspects were arrested in Baltimore and a freighter emitting radiation was stopped in New Jersey.

     "We're still in a heightened-threat environment," a U.S. intelligence official said.
     No terrorist strike took place on the anniversary of the worst attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor, however.
     But U.S. forces in Afghanistan were the targets of two attacks and, in the United States, there were several scares and false alarms:
     •In Ohio, a state office building was evacuated after a man told an employee he was there to install a bomb.
     •An airliner was diverted to an Arkansas airport after passengers reported suspicious activity by four Middle Eastern men aboard.
     •Law-enforcement officials in Washington were on the lookout for a stolen rental truck.
     In Baltimore, police and FBI agents were investigating six men, five of whom were foreign nationals being held on charges of immigration violations. The men are suspected of being part of a terrorist cell, according to a law-enforcement official. They were among eight men who were arrested Tuesday morning at a Baltimore apartment; two were later released.
     An FBI spokesman said agents are continuing to investigate terrorist links stemming from the arrests.
     Three of the men were from Somalia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Two others were Canadian citizens who were originally from Afghanistan and Pakistan, a spokesman for the Immigration and Naturalization Service said.
     The five foreign nationals were being held in INS custody at the Wicomico County Detention Center awaiting deportation proceedings, a spokesman said. Bond was set at $5,000 for each man, according to the Associated Press.
     A sixth man, a Moroccan native living legally in the United States, was arrested on a warrant for threatening to commit arson.
     Baltimore police discovered the men in an apartment in the 3600 block of Labyrinth Road. Police had an arrest warrant for Abderrahim Houti, according to police.
     Mr. Houti, 36, was taken into custody, but police entering his apartment became suspicious when they found "numerous other men" inside, they said.
     Regina Averella, a spokeswoman for Baltimore City police, said officers seized identification, some photographs, notebooks and literature, some written in Arabic.
     "They also seized two computers, and we are obviously continuing the investigation," she said. "We're looking at the computers to see which Web sites were being explored by these individuals, and the literature that we have that was written in Arabic is being translated."
     Some photographs also were found in the apartment, but Miss Averella would not specify what the photos showed.
     Among the items seized in the Baltimore raid were dozens of passports, fake identification cards, photographs of Times Square in New York City and Union Station in Washington, and notebooks containing Arabic writing and pamphlets on Islamic holy war, according to ABC News. The network reported that the computers contained links to a Web site called beapilot.com, which was linked to 1,700 flight schools.
     A Northwest Airlines flight from Memphis, Tenn., to Las Vegas landed in Fort Smith, Ark., after passengers reported that four Middle Eastern men aboard were acting strangely.
     Passengers on the flight told investigators that the men had locked themselves in the plane's restrooms and were shaving their bodies, a practice advocated by terrorist ringleader Mohamed Atta to fellow September 11 hijackers.
     Three of the men will be charged with interfering with a flight crew, officials said. The fourth was released.
     In Columbus, Ohio, a 41-story state office tower that houses the Ohio Supreme Court was evacuated for about two hours yesterday after dogs detected a scent of explosives and a man told a state worker, "I'm here to install a bomb," the State Highway Patrol said.
     No explosives were found, and Oscar Sesmas, 35, of Columbus was taken into custody and charged with inducing panic.
     Meanwhile, Washington-area law-enforcement agencies were told to be on the lookout yesterday for a 22-foot-long Ryder rental truck that was stolen Monday from a business in Washington.
     Police sources said the white truck had North Carolina tags and bore the name of the local business on its sides. The theft raised fears of a truck bomb, but law- enforcement officials said they had no specific information to tie the truck theft to terrorists, other than the proximity of the theft to the September 11 anniversary.
     Capitol Hill police also were on the lookout for a man identified only as Youssef who was chased by police earlier this week. Police also were on the lookout for suicide bombers, according to police officials.
     Regarding the ship, Coast Guard spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Brendan McPherson said a Liberian-registered container ship was barred from docking in Newark, N.J., while its contents were investigated.
     "There were concerns after boarding about the cargo, so the Coast Guard captain made the determination that the ship should go back out to anchorage offshore until they could verify the cargo," Cmdr. McPherson said.
     The 708-foot Palermo Senator was turned away from the port after traces of radioactivity were detected, CNN reported.
     In Afghanistan, unidentified attackers fired several rockets at a U.S. base near the southeastern city of Khost, a military spokesman said. "There was a rocket attack. Two 107-millimeter rockets were fired, but neither one hit with close enough proximity to do any damage," Lt. Col. Roger King said.
     A gunman opened fired on a guard tower at the U.S. base in Bagram in north-central Afghanistan, and U.S. soldiers returned fire. No one was injured in either incident.
     Overseas, nine U.S. embassies were shut because of fears of attacks, and U.S. military bases and forces abroad were placed on the highest level of security alert for a terrorist attack.
     U.S. officials said the unprecedented security alert announced Tuesday — level orange — was prompted by intelligence from a captured al Qaeda leader.
     The intelligence was provided by Omar al-Farouq, an al Qaeda leader who was arrested in Indonesia several months ago and who is in U.S. custody, not foreign government control as reported yesterday.
     Al-Farouq is being debriefed by CIA officials at an undisclosed location.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Cherry, please click my link in my sig.

So far, you have not defended either act.

Plus these acts target ALL Americans.

 

[Cherry]

Local News
09/12/2002
Possible Terrorist Plot Against South Florida

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/S4873/


MIAMI -- An advisory has been sent out to police departments across the state. It's a warning about three men who may be putting together a dangerous plan involving Miami.

A woman at a Georgia restaurant says she overheard three men talking about coming to Miami and she didn't like what she heard. So tonight police are on the lookout for those men.

One day after America remembers September 11th, an alert is issued to police departments across the state about three men.

A woman overheard them talking Thursday morning at a Shoney's restaurant in Calhoun, Georgia. The woman claims the men said, "They (Americans) mourned on 9/11 and they are going to mourn again on 9/13." The men also discussed "running 5 hours behind schedule." One of the men reportedly said, "We do not have enough to bring it down." The men then left the restaurant, and headed south on I-75.

Miami-Dade County officials say they are not taking any chances.

Steve Shiver, Miami-Dade County Manager says, "At this point in time we have no reason... ...to be aware of our surroundings."

We have comprised some information about these men and police are asking for your help.



The description of the first car:



A Nissan Maxima: cream color with gold trim and a Carmax tag on the front of the vehicle.

Now the second car:



A new Honda, black with Illinois plates.

Now for the suspects' descriptions;



First: A man of possible Middle Eastern descent, 5'10'', 200 pounds, 20-30 years old, black hair, brown eyes, set wide apart, thick beard that extends past his collar. 

Second man: again, possible Mideastern descent, 5'7'', 130 pounds, black hair that comes down to his collar.

The third and final man, also of possible Mideastern descent, 5'7'' 130 pounds, shiny black hair.

Now we want to stress tonight, as we speak, the nation is still at an orange alert. (the second highest) This may be nothing, but they just want to talk to these men to make sure.

If you have any information you are urged to call Miami-dade CrimeStoppers at (305) 471-TIPS or in Broward call (954) 493-TIPS.

Stay tuned to WSVN Channel 7 for the latest on this developing story.

 

[Spinaroonie]

While you're at it.. could you please defend the cyber-terrorism act? The one that can make anybody classified as a terrorist for placing a link on the internet.

Somethingawful.com (Sponsored by literotica) Under this act is a terrorist organization. Why? Every day they post an awful link of the day and thousands people visit this link and take it offline. This is a terrorist act under the law. Richard Kyanka may have a funny name, but he was born in America and has never (to my knowledge) killed anyone or commited a crime, and he's a funny guy. But, he's a terrorist, so I guess he deserves to die for taking www.mattburdeine.com down.

GOD BLESS AMERICA! HOME OF THE FREE!

 

[Guest]

It is great to see the Washington Times finally endorsing big government.

I will be looking forward to their next articles supporting Hillary Clinton, welfare, tax increases, and minimum wage.

This change of direction is unexpected but refreshing.

Support big government! Support the Washington Times!

 

[Guru]

 

[Cherry]

These are just examples of the reality of ongoing threats to our nation that make the news.

I know for certain that more never make it into the headlines.

I understand fully why some of you argue that these measures are unconstitutional ... however, when our President says on 60 Minutes that "the line is drawn at the Constitution", I believe that both the spirit and the legalities of our Constitutional Rights are being upheld ... and of course, that is argueable through the Judicial Process.

I, for one, am grateful that our safety is being strongly protected.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Support big government! Support the Washington Times!

The Washington Times removes stains and has cured my erectile dysfunction. Thank you, Washington times, you have informed of the days events and saved my marriage! Thank you, Washington Times, You let teh Eagle Soar!

 

[Weevil]

These are just examples of the reality of ongoing threats to our nation that make the news.

I know for certain that more never make it into the headlines.

I understand fully why some of you argue that these measures are unconstitutional ... however, when our President says on 60 Minutes that "the line is drawn at the Constitution", I believe that both the spirit and the legalities of our Constitutional Rights are being upheld ... and of course, that is argueable through the Judicial Process.

I, for one, am grateful that our safety is being strongly protected.

I've never heard someone who so perfectly typifies what Ben Franklin was talking about.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I understand fully why some of you argue that these measures are unconstitutional ... however, when our President says on 60 Minutes that "the line is drawn at the Constitution", I believe that both the spirit and the legalities of our Constitutional Rights are being upheld ... and of course, that is argueable through the Judicial Process.

The spirit? THE SPIRIT? Since you couldn't seem to find my link, let me post the info, let's see if this fits the spirit of "freedom and justice"

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

 

[patient1]

Within the last week I heard John Ashcroft himself admit that some of the detainees were witnesses.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I've never heard someone who so perfectly typifies what Ben Franklin was talking about.

Extreme Nationalism, Racism as a policy, she's beyond that- Fascist.

 

[Cherry]

Remember Flight 800, which exploded in the air over Long Island, NY in 1996?

We were so naive then ... nobody dared to believe that it could have been an act of terror in our own country.

Can you start to believe that these precautions are necessary yet?

Missiles smuggled into U.S.

     The U.S. government has alerted airlines and law enforcement agencies that new intelligence indicates that Islamic terrorists have smuggled shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles into the United States.

     Classified intelligence reports circulated among top Bush administration policymakers during the past two weeks identified the missiles as Russian-made SA-7 surface-to-air missiles or U.S.-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles obtained covertly in Afghanistan, said intelligence officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
     Authorities are looking for three types of "manpads," or man-portable, air-defense systems, including SA-7s and Stingers, the officials said.
     The SA-7s have a range of more than 3 miles and can hit aircraft flying at 13,500 feet. Stinger missiles can hit aircraft flying at 10,000 feet and 5 miles away.
     The FBI sent out an intelligence alert two weeks ago warning about the missiles. The officials said the warning is based on intelligence and not a specific threat that the missiles are in the United States.
     "We don't have information that al Qaeda is planning to use these against commercial aircraft in the United States," an FBI official said. "However, we are passing the information along for people to remain alert to the potential use."
     The official said an FBI intelligence alert was sent to law-enforcement authorities about two weeks ago and that airlines were notified.
     As a result of the "recent apparent targeting of U.S.-led military forces in Saudi Arabia, law-enforcement agencies in the United States should remain alert to potential use of manpads against U.S. aircraft," the FBI said.
     Other intelligence officials spoke of concerns that the missiles had been smuggled into the United States.
     Senior Pentagon officials also were briefed recently on the threat posed by shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles smuggled into the United States.
     Officials said the intelligence reports followed the discovery earlier this month of an empty SA-7 launcher near a desert base used by U.S. air forces in Saudi Arabia. The launcher was found by Saudi security police near Prince Sultan Air Base, near Riyadh, the Saudi capital.
     The Saudis could not determine whether the launcher had fired a missile, and they destroyed it before U.S. military or intelligence officials could examine it.
     One official said that intelligence report was given credence by Abu Zubaydah, the al Qaeda organization's operations chief, who was captured in Pakistan in March and who has been providing information about the terrorist group.
     A U.S. official also said the portable missiles, which can be carried in small crates, "are fairly light and not difficult to obtain on the gray market."
     "It's conceivable that terrorists could get them," the official said. "It is one of a number of possible threats that we need to be mindful and concerned about."
     Officials said another worry was an interview in an Arabic-language newspaper with a senior al Qaeda terrorist. Abd-al-Azim al-Muhajir, a senior commander, told a reporter for London's Al-Sharq al Awsat in Pakistan last week that the terrorist group is planning a major attack against the United States.
     Al-Muhajir said U.S. military operations in Afghanistan have "changed the nature of the action in the field, media appearances and training centers." However, he insisted, al Qaeda is not "finished."
     Asked about new attacks against the United States, al-Muhajir said: "We pray to God, the glorified and exalted, to help us in the coming stage, that is the 'guerrilla warfare,' and in dealing with the aircraft. Thanks be to God that we have taken big strides in this."
     Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at the Pentagon that U.S. military forces are on alert for attacks by portable missiles.
     "We take very seriously the fact that our opponents do have surface-to-air missiles, shoulder-fired surface-to-air-missiles," Gen. Pace said. "And we take precautions on the ground and in the air any time we have our aircraft arriving or departing."
     He said there were no reports of U.S. aircraft taking surface-to-air missile fire in Saudi Arabia after the discovery of the SA-7 launcher.
     "That does not mean it was not fired; it simply means we do not know if that particular weapon was fired at that location or simply dropped off there," he said.

 

[Yankin]

what the hell else would you do with a shoulder launched ground to air missile? duck hunting?

 

[Sandia]

By the way, Cherry, 42,000 Americans die from cars every year.
Did you know that?

 

[Spinaroonie]

Remember Flight 800, which exploded in the air over Long Island, NY in 1996?

We were so naive then ... nobody dared to believe that it could have been an act of terror in our own country.

Can you start to believe that these precautions are necessary yet?

But the gov't says it was the airtanks they were carrying.

Should we take measures? Yes, we should find out who has terrorist ties and if people should be arrested, however, we should do so by OBEYING THE LAWS THAT WE HAVE.

Cherry. I think you are a terrorist.


Do you know that that's all a Police Officer needs to do to tap your phone, search your house and hold you in jail for the rest of your life. He just needs to decide to do it. It doesn't matter if you are white, black or arab.

 

[Spinaroonie]

By the way, Cherry, 42,000 Americans die from cars every year.
Did you know that?

24,000 People in the world die of starvation every day.

 

[Cherry]

By the way, Cherry, 42,000 Americans die from cars every year.
Did you know that?

Strange ... was that statement suppose to justify terrorist attacks?

 

[Weird Harold]

But the gov't says it was the airtanks they were carrying.

Wrong crash -- you're thinking of the ValueJet crash in Florida. Flight 800 was bl;amed on faulty fuel pump wiring in the centerline fuel tank.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Strange ... was that statement suppose to justify terrorist attacks?

Put things in perspective. Somethign you drastically need to do.

However, the problem with America is that there's more Cherrys than there are Weevil's, Laurel's, Guru's, and others who see through these BS legislations.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Wrong crash -- you're thinking of the ValueJet crash in Florida. Flight 800 was bl;amed on faulty fuel pump wiring in the centerline fuel tank.

You know what, you're right. Either way, the goverment said a thousand times that it wasn't a missle, so stop thinking that, Cherry!

 

[Cherry]

Put things in perspective. Somethign you drastically need to do.

However, the problem with America is that there's more Cherrys than there are Weevil's, Laurel's, Guru's, and others who see through these BS legislations.

And, I sincerely hope that the Weevils, Laurels, Gurus, and others don't have to suffer the consequences before they start to trust their government is acting for legitimate reasons of national safety.

 

[Spinaroonie]

And, I sincerely hope that the Weevils, Laurels, Gurus, and others don't have to suffer the consequences before they start to trust their government is acting for legitimate reasons of national safety.

The government is doing security things... but there is a point in which they go too far. Please, Cherry tell me how "Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation" shows the Spirit of the Fourth amendment.

This nation was founded to get away from that sort of thing. The framers of the constitution had the constant thread of the British sailing their ships over and killing more of them. Hell, they even encountered terrorism when the British burned down the capitol. However, they STILL opted for MORE freedom, NOT less.

 

[patient1]

These are just examples of the reality of ongoing threats to our nation that make the news.

I know for certain that more never make it into the headlines.

I understand fully why some of you argue that these measures are unconstitutional ... however, when our President says on 60 Minutes that "the line is drawn at the Constitution", I believe that both the spirit and the legalities of our Constitutional Rights are being upheld ... and of course, that is argueable through the Judicial Process.

I, for one, am grateful that our safety is being strongly protected.

Maybe they are ongoing threats, maybe they are "more scares & false alarms," to quote one of your articles.

This thread has been a revelation to me.