I'm baffled

[Anomic]

I suspect that stroke-y content and taboo-ish categories are very good at drawing readers but that a lot of those readers will be shy about commenting. People may feel less embarrassed about saying "hey I loved the poetry" than "hey I love incest stories and this did it for me!" But I'd be interested to hear whether stroke/taboo authors have that experience.

I'm a new writer with only two parts of my first story submitted so far in the incest/taboo category, so I can't speak to how "average" my comment/vote/view ratios are. But I have found that I have received more votes and comments than I expected so far. The reviews have been more favorable than anticipated, as well. My first chapter went live on the site a week ago today.

At the moment, Part One of All I Need has 35,698 views, 792 votes, and 31 comments. So roughly... 1 vote for every 46-ish views? Something like that. And a little less than 1 comment per thousand views.

 

[StrangeTamer]

Wow, the other categories must move a lot faster than Syfy and Fantasy. My story's been up since Wednesday morning and so far it has 1948 views and 20 votes and no comments. lol that should make you feel better. I'm okay with it, I did what I wanted to do I wrote a story, got it published on lit and people are reading it.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Wow, the other categories must move a lot faster than Syfy and Fantasy. My story's been up since Wednesday morning and so far it has 1948 views and 20 votes and no comments. lol that should make you feel better. I'm okay with it, I did what I wanted to do I wrote a story, got it published on lit and people are reading it.

I think if you do Incest or Loving Whatevers you automatically get a miliion view per second. Sci-fi does move much more slowly, but if you want the ultimate in glacial views you can't do better than non-erotic. I've had a story there for over a year and chapter 1 has yet to reach 10,000 views. Everyone who reads it loves it, if I go by the scores; it's just no one comes here to read non-erotic stories. Maybe I need to ask to move it to Romance. At least then a few women will find it.

Now that I think about it, the vast interest in Incest and LW makes me wonder just what the hell's gone wrong with peoples' views on family. I'm pretty sure there's a sociology Ph. D. waiting in there for someone willing to do the research.

 

[NotWise]

I can't see your problem.

Many of my stories have 400 to 500 views per single vote and 20,000 views without a single comment.

Edited to add: My worst comment figure is 72,000 and no comments at all, or 72,000 to 90,000 with a single comment.

It seems that you and I are here for different reasons. If I got the response that you described then I probably wouldn't have posted my second story. I'm here for the reader feedback and the opportunity to learn how to write something that the public might enjoy. I'd like to be a more successful writer.

I value views more than anything else, but voting is an indication as well. In this case and in one earlier case, votes showed that some of the readers didn't like my story and were motivated to vote "meh" or less. I'd like some clue about what aspect of the story they didn't like, but for the most part I'm getting a blank stare from the readers. That means that my efforts are wasted.

 

[oggbashan]

It seems that you and I are here for different reasons. If I got the response that you described then I probably wouldn't have posted my second story. I'm here for the reader feedback and the opportunity to learn how to write something that the public might enjoy. I'd like to be a more successful writer.

I value views more than anything else, but voting is an indication as well. In this case and in one earlier case, votes showed that some of the readers didn't like my story and were motivated to vote "meh" or less. I'd like some clue about what aspect of the story they didn't like, but for the most part I'm getting a blank stare from the readers. That means that my efforts are wasted.

My first stories were posted long before public comments existed. There were views and votes and feedback by email. That sort of feedback was more difficult for readers to send than the current public comment system.

Some of those older stories have now received comments. Some haven't.

Before coming to Literotica I used to post - sometimes I still do - on Yahoo Adult Groups. On Yahoo there was no indication of views and very little response at all. Sometimes the group moderator might say 'thank you', but that was rare. For the vast majority of my stories posted on Yahoo there has been no response at all.

On Literotica I knew I was getting 'views'. We have discussed on the Authors' Hangout before what views mean, and what proportion of them are caused by bots, but 10,000 views means a lot. 100,000 views means a lot more.

Votes? Votes on Literotica, particularly high votes, are an indication of the popularity of the story not its quality. But a quality story that is also popular will get more and higher votes.

I write in unpopular genres. I write Femdom because that was one of the few story categories that got a response on Yahoo. I think that was because it was fairly rare and those that like Femdom liked almost any story that had that theme. I also write Fetish - same reason - but Fetish is a difficult genre for votes. If the reader likes that particular Fetish - the story will get a 5. If the reader's kink is different? No vote at all. There are hundreds of different fetishes. A story about one will not appeal to mainstream readers nor to the readers who like other fetishes. Fetish will always be unpopular on Literotica and a fetish story no matter how well written will rarely get an H.

I don't write for popularity. I do have a small group of people who like some of the stories I write. If I wanted recognition of popularity I would have given up years ago, or changed what I write. I write mainly to amuse myself and to try to be a better writer. But what is 'better'? We could argue for decades about the definition of 'better'.

Despite all I have written above, I value the H's I have. Sometimes I lose them when anonymous goes on a bombing raid, but anonymous can't take away the Ws or the Es. My story with an E has never had an H.

But popular doesn't mean bad. Popularity and high ratings can be a result of writing in a sought after category (such as incest) and writing a good story that works for many people. Even simple stroke stories that attract Hs get that rating because the authors are good at what they write. Simple stories that work to arouse people aren't simple to write well. They need skill in story telling, and knowledge of the right triggers to evoke a response in readers.

Literotica is large and diverse enough to accept all types of story, to attract a wide audience of readers for even the most obscure form of story, and gives authors the freedom to experiment. If that experiment is their first ever story any response to their writing can make Literotica addictive to the author.

Views, votes, ratings, feedback and comments should all be treated with caution. What they mean, if they mean anything, is how popular a particular story is by comparison with other similar stories. They are meaningless if you try to compare Incest with Mind Control, or Reviews/Essays with Erotic Horror.

I'm going to continue writing, mainly for the themed Contests. If I get comments? Thank you for most of them and f**k off for a few. If I get votes? Same response. If I get read? That's why I write.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

...I'd like some clue about what aspect of the story they didn't like, but for the most part I'm getting a blank stare from the readers. That means that my efforts are wasted.

Mostly, what ogg just said. I'll add my (more limited) experience.

I write characters and to some extent genres, that tend to get women off. (That's at root my goal.) I write highbrow - good grammar, developed characters, plots that are more than boy-fucks-girl. Lots of people aren't here for that and my ratio of votes to views reflects it. But occasionally I get a comment that amounts to "finding this story was like finding a pool of water after weeks in the desert." The few people who want what I do, really want it. I doubt it's even 3% of the readership, and I'm sure some of them are ashamed by their fascination with dominance and horrified by their response to noncon, two themes that often weave around each other in my stuff. But just as they are rare, what they want is rare and hard to find and they're very kind when they find it. I get few comments but they tend to be nice.

But it can take *months* before they wander into my stories (they tend to look at highly rated stories first, so I'm particularly affected by the "one bomb new stories" effect.)

You could be in the same circumstance. In engineering terms, you might be a narrowband transmitter, low wattage, in a sea of noise. Not many people are ever going to see your signal, and if you're writing in the darker categories there's probably people who are afraid to associate themselves by clicking on stars. (It's funny how people think reading stories here is anonymous but they worry about losing that anonymity by clicking stars or commenting. Newsflash: they are all equally anonymous.)

In that case, you need to play the long game. It takes years to collect the kind of feedback you want. And keep in mind that people jerking themselves raw aren't likely to give long, detailed criticism. (Ask phone sex workers how many clients hang up the instant they get off.) Don't end on a sex scene if you want male commentators.

Also keep in mind that the readers here are reading free porn anonymously. While I think my readers are stars in a sea of mud, the reality is that a lot of the people here are not people you'd really want comments from. Silence can be golden.

Ultimately I've found a few girls I like because of my stories, and one in particular. Mission accomplished, even if I never write again. So my Lit experience has been positive. What you want is clearly much more difficult and unlikely. Your best move is to keep writing - the more you have out there, the more comments you ultimately get. And then learn to be very, very patient.

Or you can post to LW and write an actual loving wife who happily and dutifully stays romantically attached to her husband, has great sex and stays with him through the hard times. You'll get feedback.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

Votes Views & Comments

I'll share what my numbers are, to give you an idea of what others get in terms of Views, Votes, Comments, Votes per View, Comments per View, and Comments per Vote. Take it as you will. These are accurate as of a few days ago. Twice a year I track my views/votes/comments & scores in a spreadsheet.

It's worth noting that I get a very large number of views & votes, for having stories since 2001, for having a large fanbase, and for having some very highly rated stories.

A few of my stories may skew the results. I have 4 million vote stories and another dozen or so over 500K. I have 3 stories with 10K votes or more. And I have one story with 600+ comments (5 of them mine). So I've provided the median scores as well.

That said, with 156 stories and chapters currently posted:

1) Average/Median Views: 233271 / 169811
2) Average/Median Votes: 2190 / 1843
3) Average/Median Comments: 44 / 20

Now for the interesting numbers:

Average Views per Vote: 108.9
Average Views per Comment: 16,160
Average Votes per Comment: 147.9

As Ogg mentioned earlier, the early years didn't have comments, so I have some very highly viewed stories with very few comments (less than 5). One has half a million views with 7 comments. That will screw up an average!

As for why some stories get more comments than others? IMHO,

There are 2 driving forces behind comments. The audience (category) and the content.

Certain categories have more divisive readers. They like one thing and are intolerant of others. While most notably apparent in Loving Wives (cuck vs. raac vs. btb) it exists in others. Want comments? Write a lesbian story that has a male character having sex with one of the women. Boom! Write incest that counters the kink, for instance, mother son, where either abuses the trust of the other and/or involves outsiders. Instant comments. Or post your story in the wrong category, you'll get plenty of comments.

I don't think the Category itself has a lot to do with comments, other than LW attracts far more than all the others because of the intolerance there.

Of my 100 comments stories, 4 are in Incest, 2 in romance, 3 in group, 1 in horror, 1 in EC, and 9 in LW. I have stories in 4 more categories with more than 50 comments.

As for content, IMHO there are four avenues to lots of comments.

1) Write something controversial, something with an unexpected harsh twist, trick or upset your readers and you'll get feedback

2) Write something new, above the common dreck that passes for most new stories. If your story is good enough to evoke strong feelings and emotions in your audience you'll get feedback.

3) Write something long & good. Many chapters. Once the readers invest themselves in your story, you'll get a lot of feedback and suggestions. Kill off a character, or have one betray another, and watch your readers go nuts.

4) Leave them hanging. Don't finish a story or series, or leave an unsatisfying ending and you'll hear about it.

Other than that, I have no more of a clue than anyone else. I have stories that I expected a lot of feedback on and got little. Why one story gets 600+ comments and a higher rated, more viewed story gets 60 is a complete mystery. How three of my stories can average one comment per every 5 votes is bizarre. My only audio gets one comment per 2.8 votes. All very strange to me. But that's Literotica.

 

[lovecraft68]

I mentioned a year ago-and I'm still seeing it-numbers are down here. Looking through the incest hub the stories are getting less votes, comments and a lower score than previously.

For my own experience my incest contest entries still get the big numbers the category is know for, 1500+ votes and a very good score, maybe because people are more apt to vote in a contest.

But my non contest entries are hitting the 700 or so mark, not bad at all, but the prior year I was averaging well over a thousand on most of them.

I'm not saying you still can't find one with big numbers, but they're not the norm anymore.

I mentioned incest because its whats most familiar to me, especially the last couple of years because except for last years Halloween entry I no longer put anything but that on here, all my other writing is going straight to pay.

But I've looked in mature and romance and first time and seen the same thing. Romance especially which if you gave an HEA was always a soft voted category is seeing lower numbers.

The disturbing thing there is with less votes and lower scores it means the trolls are still doing their thing and there is less 'good readers' voting.

Now I know someone will quickly come in saying lits traffic is higher than ever because heaven forbid anyone say lit could be losing anything. But even if that is the case, it doesn't mean they're voting like they used to.

If your Silkstockinglover or a handful of others, you'll always see decent numbers, but in general its down across the board.

I'm going to put this out there as a theory, but one that has a few readers I chat with all the time behind it as it was them that brought it up.

The trolling is worse than ever hear and even some readers are getting tired of seeing the hate and aren't reading as much. Authors get the bad comments, but we've all seen a reader leave a positive remark then get beset upon by trolls who call them sick or racial slurs or whatever else.

Its happening more and more and people are sick of it.

I've said it before and someone just said it on a comment thread, its time for anonymous to go. This site is turning into the erotic story version of reddit and I think its affecting readership.

 

[joelafayette]

.....

 

[sr71plt]

Authors are notified on their submission page now when there's a comment on their stories. They just need to click onto their page before it disappears after thirty days.

Also, I am seeing progressively more voters on my stories here, for whatever reason, as time goes by.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

It seems to vary a LOT by category and story type. Looking through mine, I have one that has 60k views but only 8 non-me comments (so about 7300 views/comment) and another with 13 comments off just 4k views (330 views/comment), with the rest falling somewhere in between those.

The first of those two is one where I did a bad job at blurb-writing. The blurb makes it sound like stroke, which it isn't, and I suspect a lot of people were pulled in by the blurb and lost interest when they realised it wasn't what they were looking for. It gets more views than any of my other stories and it's also the lowest-rated.

The second is romance/fantasy, posted in SF/F. I squeezed a fair bit into that one (poetry, riddles, religion, two romances, djinn) so there's a lot for people to comment on aside from the sex.

I suspect that stroke-y content and taboo-ish categories are very good at drawing readers but that a lot of those readers will be shy about commenting. People may feel less embarrassed about saying "hey I loved the poetry" than "hey I love incest stories and this did it for me!" But I'd be interested to hear whether stroke/taboo authors have that experience.

Completely agree. I also think that stories that focus on non-sex elements get more comments as there is more substance to hate or love rather than just, "Damn, that's hot! I came pi out to thirty-four digits!"

 

[legerdemer]

Your bafflement borders on not being the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

I'll ignore the nasty crack about my not writing for elementary school students and just repeat that readers aren't required here to give you a lot of comments on your stories, and you can certainly be baffled for twenty years here if you like, but it's your problem and isn't likely to change. It's getting more than a little tiresome that you and other authors can't recognize reality and your lack of entitlement in this regard.

The question was asked elsewhere on the forum today why more substantive discussions aren't coming up often here anymore. My response to that holds--it's largely because those who could talk deeper substance get "he just can't accept reality and get the system here" complaints like that of your thread two and three times a week. You pull the forum down by droning away on not just being able to "get it."

You aren't entitled to either a vote or a comment on your stories and that's reality on Literotica. Your complaint about that is tiresome.

Because someone has to be the voice of reason here. We can't all be back-biting one-liner cunts like you.

I don't think you are expressing the voice of reason at all, Pilot. You are expressing your opinion.

We all know we can't/shouldn't expect comments or votes, but that doesn't mean that we all wish we had more.

 

[legerdemer]

I get your frustration NotWise, I really do, but I have to agree with Pilot here, even if I don't condone his tone. This is the internet and we are, what a little anthill in a universe of people putting themselves out, all wanting their bit of attention? We are nothing of value to people out there, but we are to ourselves and that's so much more important. Of course it is hard to put your soul out there in your stories as we as writers all do and not get any feedback. Hey at least you do get views. I have stories that don't break 3000, and none that has more than 9. How is that for feeling invisible? But this is the point were you just need to grow thick skin. No one owes you anything and if you decide to put yourself out don't expect it. Also ask yourself from who would you really value feedback. I get little but the feedback I do get is from people I can respect (gathered from what little interaction I have with them). And you know what. It makes my day. It helps me be a better writer and it certainly helps me get through the slog when I think I might as well stop and vanish completely.

I get that it's hard, it's for all of us. So at least you aren't alone.

LOL - I have poems (with non-erotic illustrations) that have gotten more views than some of my stories. Now that's pretty bizarre. The score on all those is pretty high, so it's not that they're complete crap.

 

[legerdemer]

...My only audio gets one comment per 2.8 votes. All very strange to me. But that's Literotica.

Nice voice.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think you are expressing the voice of reason at all, Pilot. You are expressing your opinion.

We all know we can't/shouldn't expect comments or votes, but that doesn't mean that we all wish we had more.

What in the world motivates you to dig this up? You were only expressing your opinion too. I found/find your opinion on this (and od some others here) absolutely abhorent, but I walked away from the issue. Wonder why you can't.

What you quoted is an entirely different matter and that was made clear by TxRad.

I'm disappointed in your need to continue with this. It you can't let it go, you won't be engaging me on the topic any more--which doesn't mean that you and others have changed my mind. It just means you won't let me have my opinion without harping on it.

 

[legerdemer]

...

The trolling is worse than ever hear and even some readers are getting tired of seeing the hate and aren't reading as much. Authors get the bad comments, but we've all seen a reader leave a positive remark then get beset upon by trolls who call them sick or racial slurs or whatever else.

Its happening more and more and people are sick of it. ...

You got me thinking: over the last few years, those of my colleagues who teach (and I) complain more and more about the attitude of those students who complain bitterly about hot being spoon-fed the material in their courses. We now are expected to tell them EXACTLY what will be on exams, otherwise we hear about it come evaluation time. There's also the attitude that studying for two hours a week total is a lot of work, and that alone should be rewarded.

If I extrapolate from that to Lit, I think what I get in comments and votes makes a lot more sense.

 

[legerdemer]

What in the world motivates you to dig this up? You were only expressing your opinion too. I found/find your opinion on this (and od some others here) absolutely abhorent, but I walked away from the issue. Wonder why you can't.

What you quoted is an entirely different matter and that was made clear by TxRad.

I'm disappointed in your need to continue with this. It you can't let it go, you won't be engaging me on the topic any more--which doesn't mean that you and others have changed my mind. It just means you won't let me have my opinion without harping on it.

I started reading the thread from the beginning and responding - that's all.

I'm disappointed of your overall attitude about this particular issue, but would never expect to change it with anything I say.

 

[TxRad]

A writer writes a hot sexy erotic story and posts it.

A reader reads the story and gets off big time. If the best sex scene is at the end, the reader comes out of their daze and see the stars and gives the writer a five. A comment never crosses the readers fogged brain. Now if the hot sex scene is near the front or middle of the story, the reader doesn't see the stars or think about a comment so the writer loses both ways.

Fuck up the readers orgasm or drop something he or she hates in the story and you'll get rants and raves of comments. Welcome to Loving wives. Give the reader something that makes them think enough to forget about their orgasm and you get rave reviews but probably not much in the way of votes because they are still thinking about it hours later.

Writers owe readers nothing and readers owe writers the same.

Some people just need to figure this out. It's not rocket science. If it was, everyone could do it.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I think with Incest the telling thing is the private Feedback.

If you've written something really fetishy and dirty, I do think people are more willing to send you a private message than post in public, although a lot do. If I've written an (apparently) successful, sex-driven piece, I will get a TON of private Feedback."Awesome story!""You're an amazing writer!" When I first started posting in Incest I was like Sally Field. They like me! They really like me! Now I know almost all of that is code for "I had an orgasm!" and I nailed a fetish (which is fine with me, but it's a slightly different thing.) These stories will have a decent amount of public comments, as much as others, but the private is what really distinguishes it.

By contrast I have a pretty heavy sex story in GM and I don't think anyone was shy about responding to the "heat" in Comments. It has the most of anything I've written. Not too many private comments, though.

Also I agree with LC that the Incest Hub took a dive about a year ago and hasn't recovered. It's very different. People are cranky and not voting and commenting as much. It's very noticeable. The OP should definitely take that into consideration.

I suspect that stroke-y content and taboo-ish categories are very good at drawing readers but that a lot of those readers will be shy about commenting. People may feel less embarrassed about saying "hey I loved the poetry" than "hey I love incest stories and this did it for me!" But I'd be interested to hear whether stroke/taboo authors have that experience.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I like to think people start reading one of my stories and get so turned on before they finish it they masturbate and never finish the story, let alone voting or writing PC.

 

[Anomic]

I think with Incest the telling thing is the private Feedback.

If you've written something really fetishy and dirty, I do think people are more willing to send you a private message than post in public, although a lot do. If I've written an (apparently) successful, sex-driven piece, I will get a TON of private Feedback."Awesome story!""You're an amazing writer!" When I first started posting in Incest I was like Sally Field. They like me! They really like me! Now I know almost all of that is code for "I had an orgasm!" and I nailed a fetish (which is fine with me, but it's a slightly different thing.) These stories will have a decent amount of public comments, as much as others, but the private is what really distinguishes it.

By contrast I have a pretty heavy sex story in GM and I don't think anyone was shy about responding to the "heat" in Comments. It has the most of anything I've written. Not too many private comments, though.

Also I agree with LC that the Incest Hub took a dive about a year ago and hasn't recovered. It's very different. People are cranky and not voting and commenting as much. It's very noticeable. The OP should definitely take that into consideration.

This is interesting to me because I have no idea how much private feedback people get versus comments. I've gotten a total of 3 pieces of private feedback across the three chapters of the incest story that I have posted so far, and 64 comments over the last week and a half. (This is all three chapters combined, not per story.)

I was really surprised at that ratio, expecting that I'd get more private feedback than comments. Is this typical of your experience as well?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Depends on the story. I have a few that are more plot heavy and "writerly" and those do not get the massive private feedback--I mean I get some, but not nearly as much for the stories that obviously push the right buttons. Its like night and day. I know without a doubt when I've written something that gets people off, frankly. I hear about it.

Doesn't mean the other stories are less liked or less worthy; those actually get a higher score.

Idk it could be that I write D/d. I suspect its more of a "hidden" secret than bro/sis for example.

I have a friend who writes some very well received sibcest and he gets SOME private feedback but like you a lot of more public comments.

This is interesting to me because I have no idea how much private feedback people get versus comments. I've gotten a total of 3 pieces of private feedback across the three chapters of the incest story that I have posted so far, and 64 comments over the last week and a half. (This is all three chapters combined, not per story.)

I was really surprised at that ratio, expecting that I'd get more private feedback than comments. Is this typical of your experience as well?

 

[Anomic]

Depends on the story. I have a few that are more plot heavy and "writerly" and those do not get the massive private feedback--I mean I get some, but not nearly as much for the stories that obviously push the right buttons. Its like night and day. I know without a doubt when I've written something that gets people off, frankly. I hear about it.

Doesn't mean the other stories are less liked or less worthy; those actually get a higher score.

Idk it could be that I write D/d. I suspect its more of a "hidden" secret than bro/sis for example.

I have a friend who writes some very well received sibcest and he gets SOME private feedback but like you a lot of more public comments.

It's kind of interesting how people seem to make distinctions about those kinds of things and seem to assign different levels of stigma to them, isn't it? You would think that it wouldn't matter much to a person leaving an anonymous comment, but I guess it does. Thanks for the info.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I just write smut, and the dirtier it is, the better. Who needs plot and character establishment?

 

[oggbashan]

I just write smut, and the dirtier it is, the better. Who needs plot and character establishment?

A large number of Literotica readers apparently don't. But some do.

A good erotic story is one that works for the reader. What might work for one will repel another.

I don't see that as a value judgement that one style of story is better than another. They just work for different audiences.

It can be just as difficult to write 'dirty smut' well as it is to write 'literate erotica' and both can be excellent, good, bad or uninspiring of their type. But saying that one is 'better' than another could be as pointless as comparing bananas and potatoes - both are useful and nutritious and the same person might like potatoes now and bananas later.