I'm back with my questions.

[intrigued]

Hello.

I was encouraged in the past to ask any questions I might have regarding D/S, as I am very new to this, and am in the researching/evaluating stages of discovery. I have followed all the links those of you sent me in my earlier posts here, and have even talked with a couple people privately....I am so bug~eyed from researching that I decided it was simply time to cut to the chase. I am in a bit of a hurry at the moment, but for starters, I would like to know how one comes in contact (online) with a DOM? And by that I mean, initially I would like to talk with one simply in an information gathering kind of way...beyond that, yes, I question how one finds a DOM? I would like to say up front that I have a sense of what a true DOM is, so if you are wishing to just play with me, please don't bother. Thank you. For those of you with online experience in this regard, I would love to hear from you. I would also appreciate any guidance whatsoever in this regard.
Also, while I am here, I was browsing a few minutes ago, and noted that a Sub was referred to as a "Slave". I have never seen the two interchanged in this way, is this correct?

Thank you again....and I'll be back a bit later.

 

[Persephone36]

Hey there intrigued!

Just wanted to wave, say hello, bonjour, etc.

Nice to see you here as opposed to only on the GB (as you can see, I've made my way over...)


P.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Hello intrigued, welcome back to the board. I must say that I don't have experience in locating a Dom myself, as hubby is my Dom. However, I've read lots of posts on here about bondage.com and other sites to place an ad on looking for a Dom.

I'm sure that someone with more real time experience with this process and how it works can explain much better than I.


dixi

 

[Daedalus77]

I have been skin to skin for about 4 years however I never wanted just an online experence. Are you looking for a an online dom or a r/t dom?

 

[intrigued]

Hey there intrigued!

Just wanted to wave, say hello, bonjour, etc.

Nice to see you here as opposed to only on the GB (as you can see, I've made my way over...)


P.

Hi dear, thank you. I've been peeking in for awhile now, but I tend to go slowly.
While I have you, I just want you to know that you should receive a reward for writing the longest PM in history. I have been at that puppy for days! I am having to take it in blocks, as thats all my mind can handle at a time... I promise, my reply is forthcoming....

Hi, dixie, and thank you kindly. I am not certain I am ready to place an ad, I imagine all kinds of things could go wrong with that...I am just wondering how one goes about it in general: do they seek you out, does it happen by chance, as in other online friendships, etc, or do you just not bother at all? I guess the bottom line is several things, mostly what others experiences have been in meeting one, and how it came to be. I'm getting the feeling it's just a "it happens by chance" kind of scenario?
Either way, I would like to talk with one, as I do have questions.

Hmm....maybe this way would be easier, maybe I could just post some of my thoughts here, and others can reply here.

Why are props designed for control needed, when true mental control need not require props?


Please explain why trust requires proof? Doesn't that negate what trust is all about? An example: I have noticed comments such as "my sub must show all PM's to me". Umm...hmm...doesn't that simply show that you do not trust the Sub?


Is it necessary that the Sub mold themselves to the DOM, in spite of their true nature? In other words, is the Sub meant to please the Dom, regardless of the Subs own needs and desires?


What does training consist of?

OK, thats enough for now, I think. I appreciate any input, and thank you.

 

[intrigued]

I have been skin to skin for about 4 years however I never wanted just an online experence. Are you looking for a an online dom or a r/t dom?

Hello,
Well, ofcourse I would prefer a skin to skin experience, but that is not happening, as I am not even dating. I am in a very small town, and there is nothing even remotely of interest to me here.
However, I think in a community such as this, it would be a shame to not seek out as much information and experience as possible. I do not feel it is possible to experience any relationship in its ultimate manner, until it becomes skin to skin.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[SexyChele]

Hello Intrigued! Nice to see you once again!

Although I have limited experience, I've had both a R/L Dom and I've done the online thing. Skin to skin is much more satisfying and more of the "real deal" than online. To me, online is more like playing at something than actually doing it. I know some folks can really get into it, but it's just not for me.

As far as meeting a Dominant, you could search out places like bondage.com or alt.com. Just a cautious statement: there are many there who are not "true" Doms - they are simply guys who want a little kinky sex. If you are looking for some one to share info with, or something more, it is important that you know how a Dom is supposed to react to certain questions/situations. For example: if you meet a Dom online, first time, and he wants you to begin to address him as "Sir" and to be instantly submissive to him - RUN! He's a clueless "wannabe".

Most Dominants that I have met recently would not stick out from the crowd as such in public. It's important to keep in mind that they are just ordinary guys with a few kinks to them!

In all situations that I have been involved in, my Dominant started out as a friendship, then evolved into a more serious relationship. The D/s part didn't come out until later. But then, I don't "just play". I'm more desirous of a relationship.

There are also "munch" groups in most large city areas of the US that meet on a regular basis where you can meet people who are involved in the lifestyle. They do welcome "newbies", and most will state they are open to those who are just curious.

If you choose to meet some one online, I would really stick to the sites that are specifically for alternate lifestyles. For example, I would NOT go to the D/s section of the chatroom here at Lit. While there are nice people there, they have a tendency of "playing" at BDSM. You want a place that will answer your questions.

As to the use of the word "slave", I've had one Dom use it at the height of play, but at no other time. I equate it with the Gorean thing, and do not care to be called a "slave", personally. Other subs don't care, or even desire it. In most books that I've read on BDSM, submissives are referred to as just that: submissives. But then, dominants are usually not referred to as "Master" or "Sir", either. I think it's more of a personal preference, but I could be wrong.

 

[SexyChele]

Hmm....maybe this way would be easier, maybe I could just post some of my thoughts here, and others can reply here.

Well, if everyone will excuse back to back posts, I'll give my input..

Why are props designed for control needed, when true mental control need not require props?

Not sure what you mean exactly, but there is a difference between physical control and mental control. In some instances, sensation is heightened when a sub is confined, bound, or sensory deprived. Other times, it is merely obeying one's Dom that brings on a sensation that is desired. Also, there are times when a sub is bound - which would seem physical - but what really is going on is mental. Such as being bound and blindfolded. A sub cannot move, but s/he cannot see, either. Without the sense of sight, your mind kicks into overdrive, wondering what is going to happen next.

There are forms of play that require absolutely no props whatsoever - it is all mental.


Please explain why trust requires proof? Doesn't that negate what trust is all about? An example: I have noticed comments such as "my sub must show all PM's to me". Umm...hmm...doesn't that simply show that you do not trust the Sub?

Trust is something a Dominant must earn from his sub. That is a key point here. To allow another person to tie you up puts you in an extremely vulnerable position. You better be trusting the guy/gal who is doing it!

As far as a Dominant trusting his sub, well, if he didn't she probably wouldn't be his sub for long!

A Dominant shows his ability to be trustworthy by accepting his sub's limits and sticking with issues negotiated. There are also other things, one of which might be contacting her when he says he will, among other things.

Many subs, to demonstrate to their Dominants their trust in him, will do things or follow instructions that show this. One of those might be to show him all emails and private messages. Not all Doms might require this. Some might ask for it. It could also be seen as a form of protection - if some one is contacting the sub inappropriately, there is nothing like a Dominant responding!

And remember - subs are doing this willingly. If a Dominant asks to see a sub's email messages, and she doesn't want him to, there are choices. They might compromise, yes. Or it just might be an issue that will cause the two to go their separate ways.

Also to remember is that, in order to make this type of relationship sucessful (skin to skin, anyway) is complete and total honesty. By sharing her email messages, a sub is showing her Dominant that she is hiding nothing from him. And by the way, there are some Dominants that require their subs to view email and "filter" what the Dom sees, so it could go both ways. Again, this is an agreement reached with the full consent of both parties - the sub isn't forced into anything.


Is it necessary that the Sub mold themselves to the DOM, in spite of their true nature? In other words, is the Sub meant to please the Dom, regardless of the Subs own needs and desires?

Well, if a sub has a true submissive nature, then "molding" herself to the pleasures of her Dom is a natural course of action. Submissives get their "kick" from giving pleasure. At least I do. For me, it is more important that my partner is satisfied. I get more satisfaction knowing that I've pleased him, that something I've done brought him satisfaction. I honestly do not need to orgasm every time I have sex. However, if my partner does not (and this holds true for any 'nilla relationships), I feel as though I've let him down. And if I orgasm and he doesn't? Yup, my world ends!

Now, if a Dom is only in it for his own needs and desires, he will soon find himself sub-less. (Well, unless he is into Gor, but that's a little different) Most Doms have their subs pleasure foremost in their minds. They want to bring just as much pleasure to their subs as their subs want to bring to them. Think of it this way: if a Dom can drive a sub crazy with pleasure, how quickly is she going to think of leaving him?

As to her needs and desires, every Dominant I've every met has always asked right off what my needs and desires are. If a sub can't answer that, most Doms won't deal with them. They want to know, so they can provide for her.

Now, the sub can't just lie back and wait for things to happen to her. She usually has to be intune with his needs and desires. This is why there is usually an extensive "interview" before any play. You want to be certain you will both satisfy each other. Quite unlike the 'nilla world, ain't it?


What does training consist of?

Depends on level of a submissive's prior involvement with BDSM, or what kinks you are thinking of engaging in. Normally, if a submissive is entering into their first BDSM relationship, they have to learn the ropes. (NO pun intended!!) Sometimes it consists of certain behaviors, as in addressing a Dom. Sometimes it involves an introduction to something, such as flogging. Normallym "training" involves a very novice sub and getting used to the lifestyle.

 

[Shadowsdream]

SexyChele

Excellent post!

Superb, thoughtful and realistic.

 

[sweeth0nesty]

How to find a Dom

Well, I found my on Bondage.com. There are other sites out there like Alt.com. swappernet.net and sexyads.com are just a few. Most are very helpful if they are a true Dom. Many just like to chat or cyber. That wasnt for me, it took me almost 2 yrs to find a true Dom that would love, respect, and cherish me for who and what i am.
sweet

 

[artful]

Well Done Chele

 

[intrigued]

Hello Intrigued! Nice to see you once again!

Although I have limited experience, I've had both a R/L Dom and I've done the online thing. Skin to skin is much more satisfying and more of the "real deal" than online. To me, online is more like playing at something than actually doing it. I know some folks can really get into it, but it's just not for me.

As far as meeting a Dominant, you could search out places like bondage.com or alt.com. Just a cautious statement: there are many there who are not "true" Doms - they are simply guys who want a little kinky sex. If you are looking for some one to share info with, or something more, it is important that you know how a Dom is supposed to react to certain questions/situations. For example: if you meet a Dom online, first time, and he wants you to begin to address him as "Sir" and to be instantly submissive to him - RUN! He's a clueless "wannabe".

Most Dominants that I have met recently would not stick out from the crowd as such in public. It's important to keep in mind that they are just ordinary guys with a few kinks to them!

In all situations that I have been involved in, my Dominant started out as a friendship, then evolved into a more serious relationship. The D/s part didn't come out until later. But then, I don't "just play". I'm more desirous of a relationship.

There are also "munch" groups in most large city areas of the US that meet on a regular basis where you can meet people who are involved in the lifestyle. They do welcome "newbies", and most will state they are open to those who are just curious.

If you choose to meet some one online, I would really stick to the sites that are specifically for alternate lifestyles. For example, I would NOT go to the D/s section of the chatroom here at Lit. While there are nice people there, they have a tendency of "playing" at BDSM. You want a place that will answer your questions.

As to the use of the word "slave", I've had one Dom use it at the height of play, but at no other time. I equate it with the Gorean thing, and do not care to be called a "slave", personally. Other subs don't care, or even desire it. In most books that I've read on BDSM, submissives are referred to as just that: submissives. But then, dominants are usually not referred to as "Master" or "Sir", either. I think it's more of a personal preference, but I could be wrong.

SC, again, you are so very helpful and informative, thank you.

I think I'm familiar with the wannabe types, and will have little patience with them, so that doesn't concern me, but the dynamics of the relationship between the Dom and Sub does fascinate me, yet it concerns me. Its seems there are aspects that do appeal, and aspects that are not me at all.
I am not sure what I'll do, I wanted to talk with someone here because I feel comfortable here. Going to other sites does worry me a bit, especially in terms of being unknown and talking one on one with someone.

I am dying to get to your second reply, so again, thank you very much.

 

[intrigued]

Well, for some reason when I quote you, your text isn't appearing, so this may be difficult.

First, this is the best information I have read yet, anywhere. Wow!
you wrote:
Not sure what you mean exactly, but there is a difference
between physical control and mental control. In some instances, sensation is heightened when a sub is confined, bound, or sensory deprived. Other times, it is merely obeying one's Dom that brings on a sensation that is desired. Also, there are times when a sub is bound - which would seem physical - but what really is going on is mental. Such as being bound and blindfolded. A sub cannot move, but s/he cannot see, either. Without the sense of sight, your mind kicks into overdrive, wondering what is going to happen next.

There are forms of play that require absolutely no props whatsoever - it is all mental.


So then what you are saying is that the props are merely for sexual play?
What I meant specifically is punishment, bondage, and symbolism, such as wearing a collar......
For the life of me, I just cannot understand the concept of punishment in an intimate relationship, be it either physically or emotionally. It just escapes me. We're talking adults, so I just do not get it.
I think a big concern for me is superiority. To think that anyone will feel they are superior to me, and will also need to punish me for things I cannot begin to imagine, is more than repulsive to me.

I can understand that bondage and blindfolding will heighten sexual pleasure, sure. But for it to be more than that, I cannot understand. So, I am asking for assistance with these concepts....

I think a true mental connection based on trust and very intimate feelings requires nothing more than what it is...it does not need
any of the above.


You wrote:
Trust is something a Dominant must earn from his sub. That is a key point here. To allow another person to tie you up puts you in an extremely vulnerable position. You better be trusting the guy/gal who is doing it!

As far as a Dominant trusting his sub, well, if he didn't she probably wouldn't be his sub for long!

A Dominant shows his ability to be trustworthy by accepting his sub's limits and sticking with issues negotiated. There are also other things, one of which might be contacting her when he says he will, among other things.

*But why shouldn't he also have to prove his trustworthiness by showing his PM's and emails to her? He could very well be doing the very same thing he suspects her of....

Many subs, to demonstrate to their Dominants their trust in him, will do things or follow instructions that show this. One of those might be to show him all emails and private messages. Not all Doms might require this. Some might ask for it. It could also be seen as a form of protection - if some one is contacting the sub inappropriately, there is nothing like a Dominant responding!

*I'm sorry, but I am a grown woman and if i cannot protect myself from unwanted emails, well, something is wrong....
Further, how does showing a Dom your emails prove that you trust him? Trust him to do what???

And remember - subs are doing this willingly. If a Dominant asks to see a sub's email messages, and she doesn't want him to, there are choices. They might compromise, yes. Or it just might be an issue that will cause the two to go their separate ways.

*I mean no disrespect, but if they parted ways, I can certainly see why...that is rather silly. (unless ofcourse, it is agreed upon.)

Also to remember is that, in order to make this type of relationship sucessful (skin to skin, anyway) is complete and total honesty. By sharing her email messages, a sub is showing her Dominant that she is hiding nothing from him. And by the way, there are some Dominants that require their subs to view email and "filter" what the Dom sees, so it could go both ways. Again, this is an agreement reached with the full consent of both parties - the sub isn't forced into anything.

*No, she isn't losing anything, she is merely operating under fear that if she does not do so, she loses him.
It seems to me that this is a tangent of what has to be a bigger picture, because where do you draw the line? Emails are not the only way to be deceitful......

I am certainly hoping that the issues are different in skin to skin relationships.

You wrote:
Well, if a sub has a true submissive nature, then "molding" herself to the pleasures of her Dom is a natural course of action. Submissives get their "kick" from giving pleasure. At least I do. For me, it is more important that my partner is satisfied. I get more satisfaction knowing that I've pleased him, that something I've done brought him satisfaction. I honestly do not need to orgasm every time I have sex. However, if my partner does not (and this holds true for any 'nilla relationships), I feel as though I've let him down. And if I orgasm and he doesn't? Yup, my world ends!

*Understood, but what i meant specifically is say a Sub prefers certain sexual acts or positions, such as being on top, because it is sexually satisfying to her. The Dom also prefers being on top ONLY. So, then the sub must deny herself what pleases her, to please him??
I have talked with a couple of Dom's and in talking, reading my words of what I desire and how i am, they have both remarked that basically the way I see things isn't the way it would happen. I am somewhat aggressive sexually, and i like being on top, I like the thought of having a man against a wall (just one of several examples) and having my way with him, and that does not seem to be acceptable. That is ME...and I'll not deny who and how I am. I am a temptress, and I suppose that comes from being a childhood rape victim, and feeling a need to have a bit of control, and a temptress is somewhat in control, in that she delivers pleasure slowly, in her own way...

Now, if a Dom is only in it for his own needs and desires, he will soon find himself sub-less. (Well, unless he is into Gor, but that's a little different) Most Doms have their subs pleasure foremost in their minds. They want to bring just as much pleasure to their subs as their subs want to bring to them. Think of it this way: if a Dom can drive a sub crazy with pleasure, how quickly is she going to think of leaving him?

*Yes, I can follow his line of thinking, but I am referring to intense intimate love relationships that are based on more than sexual interactions, and would hate to think a person would stay/leave simply for sex....

As to her needs and desires, every Dominant I've every met has always asked right off what my needs and desires are. If a sub can't answer that, most Doms won't deal with them. They want to know, so they can provide for her.

Now, the sub can't just lie back and wait for things to happen to her. She usually has to be intune with his needs and desires. This is why there is usually an extensive "interview" before any play. You want to be certain you will both satisfy each other. Quite unlike the 'nilla world, ain't it?


*Yes well, it seems in the vanilla world...its hit and miss, trial and error. I think that if I decide to stay in my vanilla world, I might devise a little application/interview of my own.

Thank you SC, I appreciate your insight and knowledge. You have given me alot more to think about.
I welcome any further comments....

 

[artful]

SC, again, you are so very helpful and informative, thank you.

I think I'm familiar with the wannabe types, and will have little patience with them, so that doesn't concern me, but the dynamics of the relationship between the Dom and Sub does fascinate me, yet it concerns me. Its seems there are aspects that do appeal, and aspects that are not me at all.
I am not sure what I'll do, I wanted to talk with someone here because I feel comfortable here. Going to other sites does worry me a bit, especially in terms of being unknown and talking one on one with someone.

I am dying to get to your second reply, so again, thank you very much.

I would only add,...continue doing what you are doing. Researching and learning from interacting with others who have common interests in developing or furthering their lifestyle*ONLINE*.

Why ONLINE? Because it's SAFER. Less exposure of
personal information that MIGHT be more easily used against you in a skin to skin encounter.

ONLINE is like going to school, it's just the BEST place to start. In the past,...I have driven over a *MILLION* plus miles without a CHARGEABLE accident, as a professional Long Haul over-the-road truck driver,(by no means a record).

I have always found it quite incomprehensible how EXPERIENCED drivers say, "No fucking way to REALLY learn how to drive a truck by going to school."
"The BEST way is just like my Daddy taught me. When I was 10 years old and,yada-yada-yada. Just jump in the drivers seat and take off. Hell I never had a road atlas back then and, yada-yada-yada."

The fact remains,...there many ways to learn, going to school is the BEST way to START. Being an adult, you will KNOW when you are READY for a skin to skin encounter.

The most important part for EACH of us to learn,...is WHO we are,...and WHAT do we want. That should be learned in "school".

When you have truly been HONEST with yourself,... you KNOW who you are,...and WHAT you want, (as far as is POSSIBLE with researching and learning in school). Then,...jump in the drivers seat and take off on a REAL run.

KNOW your truck though,...perform safety checks,...check your water and oil,...check the conditions of your tires. Not just ONE,...ALL eighteen of them.

Check your brakes,...check your air pressure,...check your lights and windshield wipers. Adjust your seat and mirrors,...then put it in gear.

As you release your brakes and start that forward motion, is there a STRANGE or UNIDENTIFIABLE sound emanating from your Dom? (Err I meant TRUCK) HEY,
the analogy FITS.

Yes,...you went to school,...yes you are confident that you KNOW what you are doing,...but in REAL LIFE,...shit happens. I can't tell you how many times I have seen professional drivers get in jams
just BECAUSE they were in a hurry.

Take your time,...learn about YOURSELF first,... and THEN your TRUCK,...(Err,uhmm, I meant to say Dom).

(JMHO) But it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[artful]

Just food for thought

I don't know that you are a sub, a Dom, a Switch, or plain vanilla. Do you?

(no offense intended)

 

[intrigued]

Re: How to find a Dom

Well, I found my on Bondage.com. There are other sites out there like Alt.com. swappernet.net and sexyads.com are just a few. Most are very helpful if they are a true Dom. Many just like to chat or cyber. That wasnt for me, it took me almost 2 yrs to find a true Dom that would love, respect, and cherish me for who and what i am.
sweet

I'm sorry, I meant to thank you earlier for all your information. I am very happy for you, you are describing how I feel it should be...thank you.

 

[intrigued]

I would only add,...continue doing what you are doing. Researching and learning from interacting with others who have common interests in developing or furthering their lifestyle*ONLINE*.

Why ONLINE? Because it's SAFER. Less exposure of
personal information that MIGHT be more easily used against you in a skin to skin encounter.

ONLINE is like going to school, it's just the BEST place to start. In the past,...I have driven over a *MILLION* plus miles without a CHARGEABLE accident, as a professional Long Haul over-the-road truck driver,(by no means a record).

I have always found it quite incomprehensible how EXPERIENCED drivers say, "No fucking way to REALLY learn how to drive a truck by going to school."
"The BEST way is just like my Daddy taught me. When I was 10 years old and,yada-yada-yada. Just jump in the drivers seat and take off. Hell I never had a road atlas back then and, yada-yada-yada."

The fact remains,...there many ways to learn, going to school is the BEST way to START. Being an adult, you will KNOW when you are READY for a skin to skin encounter.

The most important part for EACH of us to learn,...is WHO we are,...and WHAT do we want. That should be learned in "school".

When you have truly been HONEST with yourself,... you KNOW who you are,...and WHAT you want, (as far as is POSSIBLE with researching and learning in school). Then,...jump in the drivers seat and take off on a REAL run.

KNOW your truck though,...perform safety checks,...check your water and oil,...check the conditions of your tires. Not just ONE,...ALL eighteen of them.

Check your brakes,...check your air pressure,...check your lights and windshield wipers. Adjust your seat and mirrors,...then put it in gear.

As you release your brakes and start that forward motion, is there a STRANGE or UNIDENTIFIABLE sound emanating from your Dom? (Err I meant TRUCK) HEY,
the analogy FITS.

Yes,...you went to school,...yes you are confident that you KNOW what you are doing,...but in REAL LIFE,...shit happens. I can't tell you how many times I have seen professional drivers get in jams
just BECAUSE they were in a hurry.

Take your time,...learn about YOURSELF first,... and THEN your TRUCK,...(Err,uhmm, I meant to say Dom).

(JMHO) But it's mine,...and I own it.

Thank you...this is exactly what I am doing, which is why I am continuing to seek knowlwdge and insight. I have been on this journey into my sexuality for quite some time now, and I'm hoping it continues for a life time.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Just food for thought

I don't know that you are a sub, a Dom, a Switch, or plain vanilla. Do you?

(no offense intended)

Hmmm....OK.


Since I have not explored this skin to skin, it is very hard to say with any accuracy what exactly I am.

I think I am closest to a sub, though it may not seem like it all from the above comments. What appeals to me about subs is their ability to surrender intimately, something I long to do, and have never been able to.
I do see tendencies of a switch. I like the aspect of control, but only to a degree...in teasing, seducing, tempting, as that is a manner of expressing my sexuality. And when you get right down to it, that is a desire to please, no?

IMHO, vanilla is not plain.

 

[MissTaken]

There are varying degrees of D/s along the way.

You may or may not fit into a "sub" profile. Who knows?
Only you.

In terms of the things you like to do and the issue of "vanilla," kink is in the mind of the beholder and if you are happy, excited and fullfilled by your sexual relationship, that is what we all seek.

One of the challenges in BDSM is getting beyond labels, names, and tags. Once you know what it is you enjoy and long for, you can just be you, without a tattoo that says, "Sub."

Pleasing another takes on so many forms.
Dominants are about bringing pleasure as well.
We are all about recieving pleasure.

It is a matter of identifying those things that bring you pleasure and finding a partner who enjoys the same sorts of activities.

Call it BDSM.
Call it kink.
Call it 'nilla.

It is what we all do/have done or will do in the future.

 

[Quint]

Intrigued said:

Please explain why trust requires proof? Doesn't that negate what trust is all about? An example: I have noticed comments such as "my sub must show all PM's to me". Umm...hmm...doesn't that simply show that you do not trust the Sub?

Last year I wrote an essay on fideism and how it applies to Spenser's "The Faerie Queene." (Got an A on the paper, too!) This thought reminded me of it; well, the fideism part.

Fideism is the belief that trust in God's existence is worthless if you prove it, or lacking that, try to. There are two degrees of fideism. The milder version exemplifies the latin phrase, credo ut intelligam, or, "I believe in order to understand." Trust is imperative, here, but they also believe God can be explained with reason. A more extreme version follows the phrase, credo quia absurdum est, or, "I believe because it is absurd." It is impossible to reconcile trust and reason to these people; if one has trust in something, that shows that there is no trust. Sounds much like what you said above.

This, however, is the rationale behind the existence of God and whether or not it can be verified. Trust should always have a basis. Children trust blindly in both religion and relationships; we can't afford to do either. Does showing your actions, online, over the phone, even in real life prove that you are trustworthy? I don't believe so, not so immediately. There has to be time, experience, and so on. Nothing new. I don't think this is any different than beginning a nilla relationship, except that perhaps a sub is in more physical danger if her Dom is untrustworthy. (Note the "perhaps." We deal in danger, but that is not in the least to say that a nilla man couldn't be overtaken by destructive urges.) The "sharing of public information" like PMs thing is a personal preference, and certainly not sufficient to generate complete trust between two partners.

God is possibly too good to be true, yet somehow exists. Doms don't come like that. They can be damned good, but not unbelievably so. That's where the proof comes in. Trust is a continual action, constantly reevaluated and reaffirmed.

 

[intrigued]

Miss Taken....thank you. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. I hate labels and defining, I see myself as a sexual being, period. (Well, it would help to be having sex, but the intent is there.)

I have thought more on this, and I realize now that my biggest struggle is needing to understand the dynamics of why certain aspects exist, what is their pupose/function?

As I said above, I don't care for labeling, and I care less for rigidty. I have been repressed all of my life, and I need freedom. I do not find it appealing to think that I cannot be a sub/switch/domme, whichever or all, and still be myself, free to explore within that.

 

[intrigued]

Intrigued said:

Last year I wrote an essay on fideism and how it applies to Spenser's "The Faerie Queene." (Got an A on the paper, too!) This thought reminded me of it; well, the fideism part.

Fideism is the belief that trust in God's existence is worthless if you prove it, or lacking that, try to. There are two degrees of fideism. The milder version exemplifies the latin phrase, credo ut intelligam, or, "I believe in order to understand." Trust is imperative, here, but they also believe God can be explained with reason. A more extreme version follows the phrase, credo quia absurdum est, or, "I believe because it is absurd." It is impossible to reconcile trust and reason to these people; if one has trust in something, that shows that there is no trust. Sounds much like what you said above.

*I am so lost in this paragraph...how does trusting in something show that you don't trust it???

This, however, is the rationale behind the existence of God and whether or not it can be verified. Trust should always have a basis. Children trust blindly in both religion and relationships; we can't afford to do either. Does showing your actions, online, over the phone, even in real life prove that you are trustworthy? I don't believe so, not so immediately. There has to be time, experience, and so on. Nothing new. I don't think this is any different than beginning a nilla relationship, except that perhaps a sub is in more physical danger if her Dom is untrustworthy. (Note the "perhaps." We deal in danger, but that is not in the least to say that a nilla man couldn't be overtaken by destructive urges.) The "sharing of public information" like PMs thing is a personal preference, and certainly not sufficient to generate complete trust between two partners.

Acheiving trust regarding your physical safety is imperative and a given. I understand the concept of trust, I just don't believe that trust should be constantly questioned, constantly proven, constantly reaffirmed in pointless manners such as the forwarding of mail, and the constant updating on your personal interactions with others. I will never live in that manner. This DOES negate the very basis of trust. I think this simply reeks of insecurity, doubt, jealousy and an unnecessary control. If one is so insecure in these little issues, how on earth will they handle the big ones?
I am all for testing ones truthfulness INITIALLY, but you know, there comes a point...........

God is possibly too good to be true, yet somehow exists. Doms don't come like that. They can be damned good, but not unbelievably so. That's where the proof comes in. Trust is a continual action, constantly reevaluated and reaffirmed.

Again, there comes a point......


Thanks very much.

 

[Persephone36]

I need freedom. I do not find it appealing to think that I cannot be a sub/switch/domme, whichever or all, and still be myself, free to explore within that.

I think freedom to be yourself -- whoever that is -- is what it's all about. And while labels can sometimes help as a guideline or structure -- in the end run it is all about two individuals (or more) coming together with all their particular quirks, sexually, emotionally, psychologically, etc.

I think you're in the greatest and most exciting time in a way. At least, lol, I'm in the same boat so I look at it that way. You're exploring your sexual boundaries.

God, knows I spent the summer raging through mine at a fast clip, lol -- pushing them this way and that...and I end up on the bdsm board! Wouldn't have guessed that a few years ago! I just think the more exploring you do -- both discovering your hard boundaries (very important) and the ones where you're a bit more scared and but willing to consider is thrilling.

I have to say though -- I think I'm *unbelievably* lucky. I met one great guy this past summer who was more than willing to be a teacher. But I know the pleasure was mutual. I've met another one who's willing to explore more with me. They both happen to be wonderful human beings and worthy of respect and trust. Doesn't mean they're life long relationships, but they've been the right men at the right time in my life.

Sometimes when you're open *and* gutsy...good things come along.

You're both intrigued -- I know things will start to move along for you.

P.

 

[intrigued]

I think freedom to be yourself -- whoever that is -- is what it's all about. And while labels can sometimes help as a guideline or structure -- in the end run it is all about two individuals (or more) coming together with all their particular quirks, sexually, emotionally, psychologically, etc.

I think you're in the greatest and most exciting time in a way. At least, lol, I'm in the same boat so I look at it that way. You're exploring your sexual boundaries.

God, knows I spent the summer raging through mine at a fast clip, lol -- pushing them this way and that...and I end up on the bdsm board! Wouldn't have guessed that a few years ago! I just think the more exploring you do -- both discovering your hard boundaries (very important) and the ones where you're a bit more scared and but willing to consider is thrilling.

I have to say though -- I think I'm *unbelievably* lucky. I met one great guy this past summer who was more than willing to be a teacher. But I know the pleasure was mutual. I've met another one who's willing to explore more with me. They both happen to be wonderful human beings and worthy of respect and trust. Doesn't mean they're life long relationships, but they've been the right men at the right time in my life.

Sometimes when you're open *and* gutsy...good things come along.

You're both intrigued -- I know things will start to move along for you.

P.

I feel such a kinship with you.

I AM in a wonderful place inside, finally. I do feel gutsy, strong, eager, open minded, volatile, worked up, busting at the seams....umm...I'll stop now, I do believe you get the picture.

I do have a little trouble realizing that again, i am most likely going to end up going against my true nature, in that since this is a journey of exploration, most likely more than one man will be involved. I don't want that. I want ONE man to give my all to.
I don't want a different man for whatever stage I am in at the time...I want one man to go through it all, every drop of it, with me.
More than anything, I want the kind of relationships I read about here, like those mentioned in my first posts on this board. I want such an intimate, mental and emotional connection that will allow me to surrender so sweetly....
I'm dreaming, aren't I?

Persephone, you are a very exciting woman, and I applaud you.

 

[Persephone36]

I feel such a kinship with you.

I AM in a wonderful place inside, finally. I do feel gutsy, strong, eager, open minded, volatile, worked up, busting at the seams....umm...I'll stop now, I do believe you get the picture.

I do have a little trouble realizing that again, i am most likely going to end up going against my true nature, in that since this is a journey of exploration, most likely more than one man will be involved. I don't want that. I want ONE man to give my all to.
I don't want a different man for whatever stage I am in at the time...I want one man to go through it all, every drop of it, with me.
More than anything, I want the kind of relationships I read about here, like those mentioned in my first posts on this board. I want such an intimate, mental and emotional connection that will allow me to surrender so sweetly....
I'm dreaming, aren't I?

Peresphone, you are a very exciting woman, and I applaud you.

No, you're not dreaming...and I do very strongly believe that everyone should be true to their nature.

It's just sometimes you have to challenge yourself as to what that nature really, really is.

I'll put it this way -- up until about two years ago (and I'm 37) and I really didn't think, or rather wasn't *sure* I could separate love and sex. Now I know I can. However, I don't ever want to separate sex and affection and respect. So, well, lol -- we can talk about it more one on one...(and I'm saying that also because I have to cut this short and run...) but sometimes you're boundaries can be wider than you realize. And sometimes when you risk -- you find so much more than what you bargained for. There's just a huge difference between compromise and settling -- settling isn't what you want to do. You might have to make some compromises though. But not to sound corny -- never give up on your dreams, they're what are feeding your soul.