If America were a patriarchal society, this woman would have been killed for this.

[LJ_Reloaded]

The fact that she didn't get shot in the face for saying that, says we're not a patriarchy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

No amount of stupid people saying stupid things changes the fact that we are and most likely will always be a patriarchal society. Can you explain how you go from fathers are vital to we're not a patriarchal society? It seems like those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

No amount of stupid people saying stupid things changes the fact that we are and most likely will always be a patriarchal society. Can you explain how you go from fathers are vital to we're not a patriarchal society? It seems like those two things are mutually exclusive.

That's not patriachy, dude, that's nature. Even if society is run by women, an absence of fathers is going to be disastrous for kids.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's not patriachy, dude, that's nature. Even if society is run by women, an absence of fathers is going to be disastrous for kids.

Bullshit and last I checked the studies don't support it either. They support two parents in a loving relationship (and I suspect if single parents by and large had more time on their hands things would be different there but I admit I don't know that one.)

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Bullshit and last I checked the studies don't support it either.

Really, what studies are those?

They support two parents in a loving relationship (and I suspect if single parents by and large had more time on their hands things would be different there but I admit I don't know that one.)

So you're saying a two-parent household is better for kids. How is any of this proof of a patriarchy?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Really, what studies are those?


So you're saying a two-parent household is better for kids. How is any of this proof of a patriarchy?

Since I know you're joking about what studies I'm just going to move on from that.

That isn't proof of a patriarchy, the fact that you think 1 man + 1 woman is the vital indgrediant however highly suggests that it is. The fact that you're preaching about how men need to step up and unfuck this suggests that only we can because we're inherently in better positions. But hey it's your thread.

Why don't you claim this isn't a Christian country because we don't stone atheists, muslims or Jews? It would be about equally true.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Since I know you're joking about what studies I'm just going to move on from that.

You don't get to move on from shit when I decide to lock my jaws on your ass.

Show me the money.

That isn't proof of a patriarchy, the fact that you think 1 man + 1 woman is the vital indgrediant however highly suggests that it is. The fact that you're preaching about how men need to step up and unfuck this suggests that only we can because we're inherently in better positions. But hey it's your thread.

No, it's because mothers and fathers contribute things that the other cannot, to parenting. If women were absent in 40% of households or some such crazy number, we'd have a different but equally ugly kind disastrous set of problems plaguing our youth.

Why don't you claim this isn't a Christian country because we don't stone atheists, muslims or Jews? It would be about equally true.

It isn't a Christian country. By Constitutional law it isn't. Hell, lots of employers set aside time for Hannukah, etc.

You want to know what oppression is? It's called having Homeland Security throw you in a hole for years because they think you're a Muslim terrorist but you're actually not, like those kids who came in from Canada right after 9/11. It's called Guantanamo. Drone strikes. Getting pulled over for driving while black. Getting stopped and frisked just for being black or hispanic. Getting forced to show the government of Arizona your fucking papers on pain of being deported. Getting shot for pulling out your wallet while black. Having an entire city (Rosewood) burnt to the ground over a false rape charge. Getting LYNCHED over a false rape charge. Having skinheads coming after you with baseball bats for being black or gay in the wrong neighborhood.

None of that shit happens to women. We are not a patriarchy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You don't get to move on from shit when I decide to lock my jaws on your ass.

Show me the money.

You weren't joking? I've got to stop treating you with respect and start assuming you're not faking any of your ignorance nor joking around.

Here's one. This one is an opposing opinion, cus I'm cool like that. and here's a http://www.apa.org/news/press/response/gay-parents.aspx

The key indgrediants seem to be two parents in a stable relationship. Not two opposite sex people. And like I said I suspect that the curse of the single parent is that the single parent works two jobs and her kids raise themselves. I don't stress much about celebrity parents who can take years off at time, plus have nannies and tutors. (Nor do I doubt that rich parents who don't spend time with their kids produce fucked up kids)

No, it's because mothers and fathers contribute things that the other cannot, to parenting. If women were absent in 40% of households or some such crazy number, we'd have a different but equally ugly kind disastrous set of problems plaguing our youth.

Aside from breast milk there really isn't much that one can contribute that the other can't. I mean sure if we're using traditional gender roles the woman teaches you to cook and clean and the man teaches you to provide. But you're constantly drilling home how that time has come to an end.

It isn't a Christian country. By Constitutional law it isn't. Hell, lots of employers set aside time for Hannukah, etc.

It's a Christian Country, the Constitution may technically forbid it but lets again look at the raw numbers. When 70% of your country identifies as Christian you're a Christian nation regardless of what you call yourself. When calling the PResident, or presidential candidate a muslim can effectively be used as a slur (because it marks him as distinctly Unamerican) you live in a Christian Nation regardless of what you call yourself. When you live in a country where Pro-Lifers and Creationists aren't simply laughed out of the room when their entire arguments come a book of fairy tails, you live in a Christian Nation.

When your pledge and money have swear to God, and 70% of your citizens believe in the same religion (and a good chunk of the leftovers belong to it's sister cults) you live in a Christian Nation. But since you're on a role here I want to know how this isn't a white nation next despite similar stats on everything.

You want to know what oppression is? It's called having Homeland Security throw you in a hole for years because they think you're a Muslim terrorist but you're actually not, like those kids who came in from Canada right after 9/11. It's called Guantanamo. Drone strikes. Getting pulled over for driving while black. Getting stopped and frisked just for being black or hispanic. Getting forced to show the government of Arizona your fucking papers on pain of being deported. Getting shot for pulling out your wallet while black. Having an entire city (Rosewood) burnt to the ground over a false rape charge. Getting LYNCHED over a false rape charge. Having skinheads coming after you with baseball bats for being black or gay in the wrong neighborhood.
None of that shit happens to women. We are not a patriarchy.

Wait, are we still talking about not being a Christian Nation, when you get locked up because people think your a Muslim? Wanna talk Miss America 2013? I mean she's catching shit for being Muslim, and she's Indian just dumb fucks can't seem to tell the difference.

Basically your argument almost literally comes down the ida that no such thing as a patriachhy has ever existed anywhere in history because we treat women and children as non-combatants which has been fairly universal throughout history. Not because of various BS they have to put up with, but because we try not to hurt the things that can only make a baby once a year and are far less protective of the things that can make a baby a night, every night, for years on end if necessary?

 

[BotanyBoy]

It's a Christian Country, the Constitution may technically forbid it but lets again look at the raw numbers. When 70% of your country identifies as Christian you're a Christian nation regardless of what you call yourself.

When calling the PResident, or presidential candidate a muslim can effectively be used as a slur (because it marks him as distinctly Unamerican) you live in a Christian Nation regardless of what you call yourself.

When you live in a country where Pro-Lifers and Creationists aren't simply laughed out of the room when their entire arguments come a book of fairy tails, you live in a Christian Nation.

When your pledge and money have swear to God, and 70% of your citizens believe in the same religion (and a good chunk of the leftovers belong to it's sister cults) you live in a Christian Nation.

But since you're on a role here I want to know how this isn't a white nation next despite similar stats on everything.

 

[badbabysitter]

That's not patriachy, dude, that's nature. Even if society is run by women, an absence of fathers is going to be disastrous for kids.

so you're opposed to same sex parents... but only if they're women

yeah, that's not an amazing amount of bullshit right there...really


and studies have shown that you're wrong about that too

here's something about dykes being better parents

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1994480,00.html

The teen years are never the easiest for any family to navigate. But could they be even more challenging for children and parents in households headed by gay parents?

That is the question researchers explored in the first study ever to track children raised by lesbian parents, from birth to adolescence. Although previous studies have indicated that children with same-sex parents show no significant differences compared with children in heterosexual homes when it comes to social development and adjustment, many of those investigations involved children who were born to women in heterosexual marriages, who later divorced and came out as lesbians.


For their new study, published on Monday in the journal Pediatrics, researchers Nanette Gartrell, a professor of psychiatry at the University of California at San Francisco (and a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles), and Henry Bos, a behavioral scientist at the University of Amsterdam, focused on what they call planned lesbian families — households in which the mothers identified themselves as lesbian at the time of artificial insemination.

Data on such families are sparse, but they are important for establishing whether a child's environment in a home with same-sex parents would be any more or less nurturing than one with a heterosexual couple.
(See a gay-rights timeline.)

The authors found that children raised by lesbian mothers — whether the mother was partnered or single — scored very similarly to children raised by heterosexual parents on measures of development and social behavior. These findings were expected, the authors said; however, they were surprised to discover that children in lesbian homes scored higher than kids in straight families on some psychological measures of self-esteem and confidence, did better academically and were less likely to have behavioral problems, such as rule-breaking and aggression.

"We simply expected to find no difference in psychological adjustment between adolescents reared in lesbian families and the normative sample of age-matched controls," says Gartrell. "I was surprised to find that on some measures we found higher levels of [psychological] competency and lower levels of behavioral problems. It wasn't something I anticipated."

In addition, children in same-sex-parent families whose mothers ended up separating did as well as children in lesbian families in which the moms stayed together.

The data that Gartrell and Bos analyzed came from the U.S. National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study (NLLFS), begun in 1986. The authors included 154 women in 84 families who underwent artificial insemination to start a family; the parents agreed to answer questions about their children's social skills, academic performance and behavior at five follow-up times over the 17-year study period. Children in the families were interviewed by researchers at age 10 and were then asked at age 17 to complete an online questionnaire, which included queries about the teens' activities, social lives, feelings of anxiety or depression, and behavior.

Not surprisingly, the researchers found that 41% of children reported having endured some teasing, ostracism or discrimination related to their being raised by same-sex parents. But Gartrell and Bos could find no differences on psychological adjustment tests between the children and those in a group of matched controls. At age 10, children reporting discrimination did exhibit more signs of psychological stress than their peers, but by age 17, the feelings had dissipated. "Obviously there are some factors that may include family support and changes in education about appreciation for diversity that may be helping young people to come to a better place despite these experiences," says Gartrell.

It's not clear exactly why children of lesbian mothers tend to do better than those in heterosexual families on certain measures. But after studying gay and lesbian families for 24 years, Gartrell has some theories. "They are very involved in their children's lives," she says of the lesbian parents. "And that is a great recipe for healthy outcomes for children. Being present, having good communication, being there in their schools, finding out what is going on in their schools and various aspects of the children's lives is very, very important."

Although active involvement isn't unique to lesbian households, Gartrell notes that same-sex mothers tend to make that kind of parenting more of a priority. Because their children are more likely to experience discrimination and stigmatization as a result of their family circumstances, these mothers can be more likely to broach complicated topics, such as sexuality and diversity and tolerance, with their children early on. Having such a foundation may help to give these children more confidence and maturity in dealing with social differences and prejudices as they get older.

Because the research is ongoing, Gartrell hopes to test some of these theories with additional studies. She is also hoping to collect more data on gay-father households; gay fatherhood is less common than lesbian motherhood because of the high costs of surrogacy or adoption that gay couples face in order to start a family.