ID Card's

[Ask For More]

I don't think it's a problem for ID cards to have fingerprints......I have an Hong Kong ID card and it has my photo and fingerprint, and the usual info but nothing else. It's a system that seems to work pretty well in Hong Kong, the ID cards are ranked as well from one to three stars, with one star being limited working and length of stay privilges and three stars to be full privileges.

But I'm definitely against the super ID card stuff, that's waaay too much info to have on an ID card, and the way the police are in London we'd be in deep shit from the start. Let's just say the police aren't so accomodating towards non caucasians.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Tell me about it !

They'll be stopping you in the street to scan your card or pointing remote scanners at you and reading who you are from their cars, this stuff could so easily get out of hand....if the card has your fingerprints on it, that means the police will have "everybodys" prints on file......man they'd fucking love that !

And how long before they want peoples DNA code on their too eh !.....also if you have to have a photo on there they can scan that photo into their computers and use it along with some niffty face recognition software to plot your movements with CCTV cameras.

Scared....you should be.

 

[Ask For More]

Somehow I don't think Blunkett or whoever it is who wants them will let it go that far.....remember that there is a lot of opposition to ID cards so it's unlikely that a totally comprehensive super card will be introduced.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Not right away....but we know how the Govt love to creep this stuff up on us, and a lot of this stuff could be done without telling the public.

Face recognition is already used in the London borough of Newham's CCTV system and it wouldn't take much to extend it to all CCTV services.

The remote readers are available now and you can have mobile or fixed ones,the fixed ones are easily concealed in walls/floors/ciellings and doorways

And compulsory ID cards would give the police the "right" to stop you on the street and check to see if you a carrying yours.

 

[Ask For More]

Don't worry, if the tabloids have their way it'll neven happen!

 

[OUTSIDER]

Don't worry, if the tabloids have their way it'll neven happen!

Slight problem there mate....most of the media are behind Blair and anybody who's anti ID card is gonna be portrayed as being pro-terrorist.

 

[Ask For More]

Well, I doubt it'll go to the super cards for many years to honest...

 

[OUTSIDER]

Well, I doubt it'll go to the super cards for many years to honest...

We can but hope.

 

[Myrrdin]

According to a newspaper poll, 85% of Brit's are in favour of ID cards. People are more worried about terrorist activity and being over run by illegal aliens, than they are by our own Police force

 

[OUTSIDER]

Like I said I'm not opposed to to ID cards per se but I think if they bring this in it'll be rushed legislation and rushed legislation is always bad legislation.

 

[ChaoticLil]

Just as an aside to the main topic, as anything I felt has been stated for the most part, but here in the US there isn't any federal law mandating you carry ID with you, nor is it required by most states, at least not in PA. Sure, it helps to have one when you turn 18 to purchase your cigs, and if you have a drivers liscence, all the better, but I went until I was damn near 21 without any proof of age/address ID. All I had was a University ID for school, till I decided it was time to get a drivers license sometime after turning 20 (I live in a city with pretty good, though expensive, public transportation).

That may be correct in PA, but my son was stopped while walking down the street in our small town. After the cop stopped him and my stepson, they inventoried all of their tattoos and then ticketed them for not carrying an ID or driver's license. When I complained about it I was told that by Texas law everyone has to carry an picture ID of some sort with them at all times. As to the tattoo inventory......that was "in the interest of cutting down gang activity". Funny thing about that explanation, not only are they not in a gang, their tattoos aren't even remotly gang related.

 

[p_p_man]

Before I read this thread...

I had no real objection to ID cards. But the mention of Smart Cards has put me firmly on the side of no objection but not too much information.

There will be a further problem soon about the UK authorities keeping track of its citizens and that is the proposal that within five years we shall all be issued with individual telephone numbers.

Apparantly the idea is to issue everyone in the UK with a personal telephone number which they will carry from birth to death so to speak. The way it is intended to work is that when people move house and install a telephone they won't have to be issued with a new number each time. they will just have to register their new telephone as now being identified with their personal telephone number.

I've already seen an article on this proposal and how the idea will be sold to the public as being a more convenient way to have a telephone numbers. No more having to notify friends, family or business acquaitances about a change of number, they just continue using the one they already have to contact you.

This on the face of it seems quite a good idea, but coupled with the fact that most people are still using the dial up method of accessing the internet, the new worldwide listening device Echelon AND Smart Card ID technology the whole thing is beginning to assume the mantle of intrusion into the private lives of all of us.

Even if we don't have Smart Cards issued there will still be the individual telephone numbers to inform the authorities where we all are at a given time and to pass on information to them of our telephone conversations or our internet use.

The two together, Personal Telephone Numbers and Smart ID Cards will give them total control.

 

[OUTSIDER]

PPM, just as I was reading your post a news item came on about possible new ID cards, their saying the photo on it will be encoded and a barcode will be on it that will be used for face recognistion and it could carry a number to replace your NHS number, passport number and it could carry info about what benefits your entitled to.

Now tell me we're not heading for a police state.

I get the horrible feeling that the UK people will not wake up to the possible evils that could come from this untill it's way to late.

 

[delite]

I am anti any kind of compulsory ID card, I have a drivers licence, with my photo on it. the police ect do not need to know what toothpaste I use .
compulsory I D cards are an infringe ment on civil liberties.


and I'll never remember to carry it any way.

 

[Natalie Nessus]

.

 

[shadowsource]

You will when they arrest and fine you!

and I'll never remember to carry it any way.

Youalso won't be able to do anything - drive, open a bank account, rent a car - if you don't have it with you.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Believe me, they(government agemcies etc) can get any information they want about you right now because you are law abidding citziens (wild guess there ). It's the people who live outside of the law that need to be identified and the first step is ID cards. Honestly, what is the problem? They know all about you now!

All true but we've always enjoyed the right in this country the right to walk down the road and not feel like we're being watched all the time, thats gonna go.

I had a friend from Germany and she said she couldn't believe how free and easy it is here compared to here homeland.

 

[shadowsource]

But!

Believe me, they(government agemcies etc) can get any information they want about you right now because you are law abidding citziens (wild guess there ). It's the people who live outside of the law that need to be identified and the first step is ID cards. Honestly, what is the problem? They know all about you now!

In the US they cannot use illegally obtained information against us, in most cases. This serves to persuade the cops to stay in close contact with the judiciary system. Judges learn which cops respect the law and which don't. I truly don't believe that the cops in my police precinct know that I exist, except insofar as my automotive adventures have involved them, and insofar as I have called them on various occasions to report crimes on the street, using my proper name, of course. Setting up a system whereby they might soon be able to scan the IDs of everyone in my neighborhood is creepy beyond belief. Anyone who knows anything about bureaucracy knows that bureaucrats will use anything that comes their way, expanding their surveillance to fill all available options.

I must add that I understand why people under these circumstances think it's necessary to give up all of our rights. I simply and respectully disagree. That's why I've styled myself a "left-libertarian:" I have been as horrified by the US government's murder of the wife and son and friend of Randy Weaver, a right-wing Christian racist separatist, as I am by oppression of groups I might be expected to support. I don't trust any government to operate without clear, strong contraints.

Outsider: Germany actually has very strong laws against phone trapping, etc. But one always gets the feeling of being watched....

 

[delite]

Re: You will when they arrest and fine you!

Youalso won't be able to do anything - drive, open a bank account, rent a car - if you don't have it with you.

so not only will I be singly be funding England's new speed camera's(all to be paid for by speeding fines) I'm now going to be buying my local cunstabularys computers.

the camera's and computer's will all have special little paques saying 'kindly donated by' and my name . god damn it.

I'm on first name terms with my local traffic cop.

the problem is that here in the uk we just aren't used to the idea of having to carry ID most of us do in one form or another, but and it s a big but we don't have to.
I would love to know where the media gets it's numbers from 'cause I don't know many people who want ID cards.

 

[OUTSIDER]

I saw documentary about the Ruby Ridge thing a couple of months ago, it was made by a Brit documentary crew so a lot of the rhetoric around the subject was missing and from what I saw Randy Weaver has been painted as much more of a bad guy than he ever really was.

 

[shadowsource]

Randy Weaver -

I saw documentary about the Ruby Ridge thing a couple of months ago, it was made by a Brit documentary crew so a lot of the rhetoric around the subject was missing and from what I saw Randy Weaver has been painted as much more of a bad guy than he ever really was.

He was an idiot, but that's no capital crime... yet. Randy Weaver was a romantic, alienated Christian who set off for the back woods with his family and lived a rough life indeed. When the feds wanted to try to penetrate the Militia Of Montana - a gang of loudmouths not far from Weaver's Idaho home - they were inspired to dupe him into selling a shotgun to an agent illegally. Yes, it was a crime, but they entrapped him.

Then they offered to make a deal - no prison time if the impoverished Weaver would spy on the militia group he barely knew, but respected. He refused. The paper started churning. They went after him. He hid in the woods. Shit happened, they shot his kid's dog, someone killed one of them, etc. etc. The FBI sniper, acting under intolerably intrusive, sickening authority, shot Weaver's wife. Federal penises all aroused, the siege went on and on. All for a trumped-up charge aimed at taking a little woodsman and turning him into a federal stooge.

Personally, I oppose the Militia of Montana, and I think Tim McVeigh is representave of that very dangerous culture. But we do not save our freedoms by violating them. We pay taxes (sorry UncleBill) so that agents will take legal steps to thwart criminals, not so they will take shortcuts and crush whole families. The same applies to WACO: If you examine the records of what happened, it's clear that the Branch Davidians were leaving the "fort" each day, steadily trickling out with their children as negotiations continued. The numbers of the beseiged were dwindling relentlessly. THEN some FBI genius with balls for brains ran over the Davidians' cars with a tank. The talks broke down, the families stopped coming out, and disaster happened. I have no special sympathy with those whacked-out Christians, but they were human beings and they were executed by agents of MY authority as a citizen. It still makes me sick.

 

[shadowsource]

To put it another way -

Picture Todd being gunned down as a public menace after he declined to work for the Mounties on a trumped-up charge.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Yep the FBI agents tried to get Weaver to sell them sawn off shot guns.....which he did then they tried to blackmail him into being a spy, he told them to fuck off in no uncertain terms and they shot him and his family to bits.

Randy Weaver is just a dumb ass redneck hillbilly who got put in the wrong place at the wrong time.

What I'm worried about is that if this can happen in a country that prides it self on having a great legal system then what couyld happen over here in a country with a proven recent record of legal fuckup's.

Like I said before this ID card stuff has been kept quiet, waiting to be sprang on us when they thought they could get away with it.