I Will Never Understand the Fascination with Fantasy.

[Joe Wordsworth]

In no way do I intend to degrade or belittle fans of the whole Fantasy/Sci-Fi mix of reading and entertainment out there, but... whew... I, for the life of me, cannot get my attention or appreciation around it.

That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth... just that an insanely large number of people I interact with (the internet seems to be a breeding ground; a friend of mine runs fantasyfinale.com; most people I know are "gamers"; etc.) seem to put such a heavy emphasis on the majesty and wonders of things like Tolkein and Asmov that I am left queasy.

I just don't get it.

I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*

Can't do it.

Can anyone explain it to me?

 

[Just-Legal]

Fantasy, for me, has always been the absolute escape from reality... And the beauty of the storytelling. I was brought up on Anne McCaffrey by my mother, I adore the Tower and the Hive series (I like the Dragons series but not as much), and I watched WAYYY to much scifi as a child.

I don't know, I guess it is hard to explain...

 

[sweetnpetite]

In no way do I intend to degrade or belittle fans of the whole Fantasy/Sci-Fi mix of reading and entertainment out there, but... whew... I, for the life of me, cannot get my attention or appreciation around it.

That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth... just that an insanely large number of people I interact with (the internet seems to be a breeding ground; a friend of mine runs fantasyfinale.com; most people I know are "gamers"; etc.) seem to put such a heavy emphasis on the majesty and wonders of things like Tolkein and Asmov that I am left queasy.

I just don't get it.

I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*

Can't do it.

Can anyone explain it to me?

Start with some young adult books, or something like Robert Asprin. Not everything fantasy is Tolkien or even like Tolkein. Read stuff like Peter Pan (the novel), Oz books, Alice in Wonderland (and Through the Looking Glass), Indian in the cupboard, Narnia books, Dragon Lance,**********edited to add: A wrinkle in Time, and the BLack Cauldron************* and Peirs Anthony. You will find a wide variety of styles and stories. I am a fantasy fan and these are some of the books I like. They are fun and adventurous and imaginative and take you places to do things that would be impossible any other way.

Of Tolkien, the only thing I've finshed is "The Hobbit" and far prefer it anyway, it is a lighter, quicker and more fun adventure tale. David Eddings is really awsome, but you have to be willing to read at least 6 books. It's totally worth it of course and I don't prefer books that can't be read stand alone.

Harry Potter of course rocks as well. There is no pretention therin.

No, no one can explain it to you. You'll either like it or you won't. But don't give up to quickly and think that all fantasy is like Tolkien or all Sci-Fi is like Asimov. (I myself am not a SF fan, but have been known to enjoy an occasional volume)

If you enjoyed fairy tales as a child, you might like Fantasy literature now. If you never did, then I doubt it will hold much appeal for you. Hope this helps.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*

Don't read british or medieval fantasy. That's not all their is.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0140386335/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-8057895-6127109#reader-link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t.../104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books&n=16190

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t.../104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books&n=16205

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t.../104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books&n=16205

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=sr_1_19/104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_7/104-8057895-6127109?v=glance&s=books

 

[TheWriter]

First thing I would say is stop thinking of them being pretentious. Pretentious means putting of a pretense, or trying to be somthing beyond yourself, and trust me, people like Tolkien or Asimov knew exactly what they were doing, even if you don't like their writing style. But thinking like that only makes you convince yourself that the author has made things difficult for you.

But what I should think is more important: if you don't like or can't get into fantasy or SF, maybe it's not for you. Just because lots of people you know read doesn't mean you have to as well.

 

[sweetnpetite]

In no way do I intend to degrade or belittle fans of the whole Fantasy/Sci-Fi mix of reading and entertainment out there, but... whew... I, for the life of me, cannot get my attention or appreciation around it.
That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth... just that an insanely large number of people I interact with (the internet seems to be a breeding ground; a friend of mine runs fantasyfinale.com; most people I know are "gamers"; etc.) seem to put such a heavy emphasis on the majesty and wonders of things like Tolkein and Asmov that I am left queasy.
I just don't get it.
I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*
Can't do it.
Can anyone explain it to me?

You probably won't get too many responses because the tone of your post is condecsending and to use your own word, pompous. You ask us to explain something, but you've already told us that it's useless. Most fans will probably see the thread title and skip it all together.

You've been very insulting to the people you've perported to ask this question to. You use words like insane, breeding ground, queasy, pretentious, ect all of which have a negative connotation. It come accross like you are baiting us.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

In no way do I intend to degrade or belittle fans of the whole Fantasy/Sci-Fi mix of reading and entertainment out there, but... whew... I, for the life of me, cannot get my attention or appreciation around it.

That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth... just that an insanely large number of people I interact with (the internet seems to be a breeding ground; a friend of mine runs fantasyfinale.com; most people I know are "gamers"; etc.) seem to put such a heavy emphasis on the majesty and wonders of things like Tolkein and Asmov that I am left queasy.

I just don't get it.

I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*

Can't do it.

Can anyone explain it to me?

Figures.

Okay, to get fantasy you must first be endowed with something I like to call an imagination. Without one of these magical devices, you will forever be on the outside looking in.

[end sarcasm]

Okay, here's the explanation bit. First off, fuck the movies. Most of the fantasy and sci-fi out there is nothing more than action movie plus. For the good stuff you need Blade Runner or the LOTR trilogy. However, being imagination impaired, you will need a heavy infusion first. May I suggest two courses that should be pursued simultaneously. First indulge in the slightly fantastical masters such as Gaiman and Bradbury who delight in having real human characters in unique environments. At the same time read the completely out there books to cure this "british-ish" stereotype you seem to have. A good two is Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett. Their out there mixed with the raw humanism and brilliance of the others should cure what ails you. After that: experiment. Don't go to the fucking Camelot or LOTR ripoffs, but rather explore some of the wilder side. There is so much variability to fantasy because it has no rules. There is steampunk, high fantasy, dark fantasy, magic realism, magitech, magical historical fiction, weird fantasy, and much more.

But overall I say the first imperative is to get some imagination. If you can't let yourself slip into a world that doesn't exist you are a little too grounded. Especially if you want to be a writer.

-The demon who just plunked down$200 at the local independant sci-fi/fantasy bookstore. (Signed copy of Bradbury , I'm so happy I'm forced to brag like an asshole)

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

I'm not an expert on fantasy. But those are the first books I Iook for when I go to the bookstore. There is a mystical and magical thing about fantasy. The escape from the modern world. The heroes and villans. I have read most fantasy series and have had to put name on the waiting list for many books that I was surprised were so popular.
Fantasy is growing in popularity. Not the way romance and erotica are. BUt it's growing fast.
For men, I think the fantasy genre is better than the romantic genre. Hard to bring myself to buy a book with a muscular man who has long hair grabbing a lady in a ripped dress. But I'll more than happily buy a book with a man standing protecting with a sword over a woman.
I am a romantic so perhaps that's why I like the fantasy genre as much as I do. But I respect the authors much more. My one fantasy story, Chooser of the Souls, required alot of mythological reseach. It's very well rated and a story I'm proud of. No sex, but a basic good fantasy story. I'll continue to read fantasy. It's been one of my favorite genres. Even before the net.

 

[sweetnpetite]

-The demon who just plunked down$200 at the local independant sci-fi/fantasy bookstore. (Signed copy of Bradbury , I'm so happy I'm forced to brag like an asshole)

Congrats demon on your procurement.

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

You deserve to brag LC. Gratz on the signed copy. That's excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Yes. I love the indy bookstore so much. Regular signings from a lot of really good authors and fairly good prices on all the stuff. The signed Bradbury I think only cost me $35 of the $200 purchase and it's a first edition. I saw him at comic-con too and one of my friends was able to get his picture taken with him.

The sad thing is he's probably not going to last very much longer. All of fiction will lose something great when he passes on and the thousands of sci-fi and fantasy authors who owe their inspiration to him will weep in unison.

 

[Clare Quilty]

Over the course of the last 25 years or so, I've read LOTR, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion four times. There was a time when I was an ardent fan of Tolkien's work. Now, largely do to certain subtexts in these works that I find off-putting, I'm far less of an admirer of the writer and the work. One sci-fi series that hasn't lost its luster, however, is Frank Herbert's "Dune." "Dune" still stands up as great literature even aside from the more fantastical aspects of the story. I'm also still somewhat of a fan of Larry Niven and John Varley, but that's about it.

 

[shereads]

In no way do I intend to degrade or belittle fans of the whole Fantasy/Sci-Fi mix of reading and entertainment out there, but... whew... I, for the life of me, cannot get my attention or appreciation around it.

That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth... just that an insanely large number of people I interact with (the internet seems to be a breeding ground; a friend of mine runs fantasyfinale.com; most people I know are "gamers"; etc.) seem to put such a heavy emphasis on the majesty and wonders of things like Tolkein and Asmov that I am left queasy.

I just don't get it.

I watched the movies, I forced myself to fight through the British-ish dialogues in books and the pompous and pretentious mannerisms of the characters... *sigh*

Can't do it.

Can anyone explain it to me?

I started reading Lord of the Rings to make a boyfriend happy, and finished it because I liked it.

I've only liked one other fantasy/sci-fi series, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. "The ship hung in the sky the way a brick will not."

That's my entire fantasy & sci-fi library.

PS. This isn't meant to offend fans of Dune, but why was Sting dressed in a metal diaper?

 

[Clare Quilty]

Re: Re: I Will Never Understand the Fascination with Fantasy.

PS. This isn't meant to offend fans of Dune, but why was Sting dressed in a metal diaper?

God I hate that "Dune" movie! Every time I think about it I hear Patrick Stewart singing and I want to rip my ears off. The miniseries was much better, IMHO. Although, the actor who played Mu'ad Dib was horribly miscast.

 

[Carl East]

RULES FOR LIKING SCI/FANTASY

RULE 1: Have an imagination.

Here ends the lesson. lol

Carl

 

[shereads]

RULES FOR LIKING SCI/FANTASY

RULE 1: Have an imagination.

Here ends the lesson. lol

Carl

But why Sting? And why the metal diaper?

 

[Pure]

Hi Joe,

Those are good questions, and the sci fi/fantasy genre is not a favorite of mine.

The problems are two at least: Writing quality, and depth of character/plot.

As the movies make even more obvious, most of the characters are cardboard.

HOWEVER, as friend of mine once made some recommendations, knowing my tastes, and I read an enjoyed several stories of Theodore Sturgeon. Very Intriguing. Also the movie (from the Dick book) 'Blade Runner' has some depth, imo.

Probably you need a guide through the mountains of banality, mediocre writing, etc. What you need is a person who reads and appreciates 'literature', some of the acknowledged classics and top novelists of the day. (The person locked into fantasy sci-fi has less chance of having any perspective on the matter.)

 

[Weird Harold]

That isn't to say I'm not well read or don't know a good book when I see one, it isn't to say that I have no taste or depth...

So just what DO you like to read other than non-fiction? Steven King? Tom Clancy? Barbara Cartland? Jane Auel? Raymond Chandler?

When you get right down to it, everything except the driest and most boring of non-fiction is fantasy or science fiction.

All of the authors I listed above are best known for "genres" other than "Fantasy" or "Science Fiction" but the difference is purely semantic -- the horror genre that made Stephen King famous is a close relative of Fantasy, the "techno-thrillers that Tom Clancy writes are pure science fiction, Barbara Cartland writes romance novels which are the quintessential essence of "everywoman's" fantasies," Jane Auel fantasizes about what life in prehistoric times must have been like, and Raymond Chandler wrote stories about "everyman's" fantasies of being smarter and tougher than the bad guys.

If Tolkien and Asimov are the only Fantasy and Science Fiction you've sampled, then I can understand why you'r enot impressed. Tolkien was wordy and anal retentive about details and Asimov's best known works are obsessive about the politcal and socialogical aspects of the future he invisioned.

If you like any of the authors I listed above (or the genres they're best known for) there are fantasy and science fiction novels or series that you would be exstatic about.

I've been reading fantasy and science fiction since I discovered the Wizard of Oz and the Adventures Of Tom Swift in the late 1950's. There are a LOT of fantasy and Science fiction authors I hate, just as there are some mystery, romance, and "mere fiction" authors that I love despite disliking their preferred genres in general.

It's all about the story -- whatever genre it happens to be classified as -- and there are, IMHO, more good stories to be found when the restrictions of the real world are bent or ignored -- i.e. in the Fantasy and Science Fiction genres.

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

LOTR is an excellent series. I've recently completed the DragonLance series. Not the offspins, but the original storyline. Many fantasy readers I've spoken with give it high marks. I have to agree. DragonLance is an excellent series of adventure, love and devotion. Terry Goodkin also has out the latest addition to the Sword of Truth series. Another excellent fantasy tale of heroism and love. I recommend both series to those who enjoy fantasy.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: I Will Never Understand the Fascination with Fantasy.

So just what DO you like to read other than non-fiction? Steven King? Tom Clancy? Barbara Cartland? Jane Auel? Raymond Chandler?

.

Good points, whatever style of writing you like, there is a fantasy subcatergory to fit your interests, weather it's humour, western, prehistoric, Victorian, gothic, chicklit, drama or something else. So to know what kind of fantasy would be more appealing, it would help to know what authors and titles you currently enjoy, as well as those you dislike

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: I Will Never Understand the Fascination with Fantasy.

humour, western, prehistoric, Victorian, gothic, chicklit, drama or something else.

I forgot to add a western author to my list, but I did have Stephen King there and his Black Tower series is essentially a fantasy Western so I guess I sort of had that covered.

"Western Fantasy" isn't very common, but it's usually very interesting when you can find it. The Drastic Dragon of Draco Texas and The Goldcamp Vampire[/i] by Elizabeth Ann Scarbourough combine the best of Republic Pictures' Saturday Serials from the 40's and 50's with humor, fantasy, and western cliches.

I also forgot to mention that Isaac Asimov was almost as well known as a mystery genre author as he was a science fiction author or "popular science" essayist.

 

[English Lady]

I love fantasy but sorry folks I cannot stand tolkein. Nope it bores me to tears,I couldn't even finish reading the Hobbit.

For me the best fantasy Authors are Terry Pratchett (Great humour,great style, great social commentary) Piers Anthony (Hilarious but understated, magical imagination, a bit smutty)JV Jones (wonderful plot,great characters and easy to read) David Gemmell (real depth of feeling, great heroes with some substance to 'em) and Tom Holt (Maybe an english-y author but his portable door and in your dreams are incredibly well written)


I would happily recommend these writers to anyone. As they write damn good reads. (though personally I'd not recommend Holts earlier work...it gives me a headache*L*)

I mean if you really are looking for a good fantasy book feel free to ask me and I'll recommend actual books by each Author for you to sample. If not..ahh well anyone else reading here might be interested in what I just said*L*

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Sorry I've taken so long to post, I've been moving and working all day. So, from the top, then?

I was honest in my initial assertion that I do not wish to offend anyone who is a fan. I used words that expressed, in efficiency and explanation, my thoughts on the matter--and I make no illusion about those being very related-to-the-subject (myself). One should not take them poorly, I don't think. For instance, I said that an insanely large number of people I know are fans (roughly all but four people, a qualifier for the expressive term "insanely").

That being said, I'm not sure that "imagination" is the only prerequisite if we are to say that a lack of imagination is the obtsacle to enjoying Fantasy. I would say I have a healthy imagination, no worse or better than the next fellow--as such, I wouldn't say that my imagination is the hinderance. As an example, I like horror movies, and I'd be willing to assert that imagination may be necessary to appreciate those as well.

I read, occasionally. Not as often as many people I know, that's true. I tried Lord of the Rings and failed to take interest--it reminded me of Faulkner in extreme detail-oriented and long prose. I read all of the Harry Potter books, on a girlfriend's request. I tried some Piers Anthony when I was younger. I even took a shot at Star Wars novels because everyone was telling me not to judge Star Wars until I had read some trilogy or something.

My reading is pretty dry, though, I think--with a few colorful spots here and there. I read a lot of philosophy. I read newspapers. I like Stephen King, Grisham, and actually did enjoy some things by Roger Stern and Peter David.

I don't know that we can expand the notion of fantasy to be "an included factor in nearly all literature" and make it nigh-synonymous with "fiction" without expanding it to the point of meaninglessness. By that matter we could say that most all literature has Biblical factors because they happen to share a moment of violence, compassion, travel, or other seemingly circumstantial trait.

I don't intend to "provoke". I believe we can take it for granted, anyone who has seen me post, that while I don't necessarily have the popular viewpoint... when I question, even myself, it is a genuine one.

 

[English Lady]

Well at the end of the day Joe if you don't want to read the genre just don't*L* It's as easy as that. If you don't get it, you don't think you'll ever get it then just don't. Read what you enjoy....reading should be a pleasure not a chore

 

[AngeloMichael]

I was brought up on science fiction and fantasy. I was more into science fiction as a kid but as I grew older I became more interested in fantasy. But I have been the odd man out most of my life with what I like to read and I recognize that some people just have no tolerance for sci-fi/fantasy. I could explain that my love of the genre comes from it being able to transport me to another reality and into worlds where anything is possible, but I know that for some people it is more interesting to read works set in the "real" world. We all have different tastes and there is nothing wrong with that.

All genres have their good writers and lousy ones and fantasy certainly has its share of lousy ones, but there are definitely some very wonderful works out there.

I could never finish LOTR myself. Whereas I thought the world was rich and well plot out, the characters seemed to be more of an afterthought and I need a story that is based on strong characterization as much as good world building. The movies, however, I loved because there was something about seeing Tolkien's world come to life that was just mesmerizing.

It's the opposite for me with the Harry Potter universe. The first books in the series I would consider quite simple, but interesting nonetheless, but the latter books are some of the most enjoyable works I have ever read. The movies I find very dull and have a hard time staying awake through.

There is one fantasy series that I would recommend to anyone whether they were into fantasy or not. That is "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin. This is simply the most gripping work I've ever read. It has fantasy elements in it, but also elements of horror, tragic romance, and political thiller. In fact the political intrigue in this series is probably what I like most about it. It is the most realistic fantasy I have ever read.