I try

[Primalex]

What it's about is the right to sexually self identify without being called fucked up.

I can't see anyone having this right.

GLBT can self identify and people can no longer discriminate, nor can they even openly criticize in many places.

Uhm, you are from the UK, right?

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I can't see anyone having this right.

Of course you can't. Others can, shocker.

Uhm, you are from the UK, right?

Nope.

 

[MeekMe]

Actually, I didn't take anyone's comments as saying "mental illness is icky". What I understood was that having BDSM tendencies to any degree is not tantamount to a mental disorder. Not wanting to be lumped into a group where you don't feel you belong is a pretty basic reaction.

That's fair.

And you are correct, you can keep your kink personal and not let anyone in on it, that's your choice. But if someone wants to come out with their BDSM lifestyle, isn't it their right to do so without derision, fright, hysteria etc etc etc whatever negativity they are encountering? It's easy to say.. just keep it secret, you don't have to tell anyone and you won't have any problems. But that doesn't sit well with everyone, so your own personal choice works for you, but may not be a solution for everyone.

The people that want it to be known have to be the ones to step forward. I'm not telling anyone they have to keep quiet. If you want to tell everyone than you have to be prepared for the work that goes with it. The LGBTQ community is just now being treated better because of years of working towards being accepted. You get to take comfort in that if you aren't prepared to step forward, you don't have to.

As to the "community", I don't think it was an elitist reaction so much as a .. "Hey, you idiots in Hollywood got it wrong." I don't recall anyone coming here and being rebuffed because they said they got into BDSM because of 50SoG. They did, however, get additional information on how real relationships work as opposed to fantasy. I don't call that elitist.

I'm not only referring to here on Lit. There's plenty of people that didn't want their secret club to get such a spotlight. Since it did get such a spotlight it was the perfect opportunity to go forth and spread the gospels of BDSM to anyone willing to listen. Hollywood will never get it right and is only an accessory in moving forward.

As for myself, I do choose to keep my leanings to myself (I get to make that choice for kink but I can't hide my mental illness like that). I don't, however, sit by and let others talk it down without offering counterpoints. I can still talk about these things without revealing what I do and when I do talk about them I hope that it plants a little seed of thought into that person. Some walk away saying, "you're right." Others walk away shaking their head.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

That's fair.



The people that want it to be known have to be the ones to step forward. I'm not telling anyone they have to keep quiet. If you want to tell everyone than you have to be prepared for the work that goes with it. The LGBTQ community is just now being treated better because of years of working towards being accepted. You get to take comfort in that if you aren't prepared to step forward, you don't have to.



I'm not only referring to here on Lit. There's plenty of people that didn't want their secret club to get such a spotlight. Since it did get such a spotlight it was the perfect opportunity to go forth and spread the gospels of BDSM to anyone willing to listen. Hollywood will never get it right and is only an accessory in moving forward.

As for myself, I do choose to keep my leanings to myself (I get to make that choice for kink but I can't hide my mental illness like that). I don't, however, sit by and let others talk it down without offering counterpoints. I can still talk about these things without revealing what I do and when I do talk about them I hope that it plants a little seed of thought into that person. Some walk away saying, "you're right." Others walk away shaking their head.

Hey, I think we are going to agree to mostly agree. Mark the calendar

 

[Primalex]

Of course you can't. Others can, shocker.

There are people who state that they have been abducted by aliens, too.

Do you have anything to contribute that resembles an argument, like can you tell me any country or state where your statement is true, which means where I'm not allowed to call homosexuals "fucked up"?

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

There are people who state that they have been abducted by aliens, too.

Do you have anything to contribute that resembles an argument, like can you tell me any country or state where your statement is true, which means where I'm not allowed to call homosexuals "fucked up"?

Oh yeah! We can have a discussion about the treatment of and respect for others!

 

[Primalex]

Oh yeah! We can have a discussion about the treatment of and respect for others!

"No" would have been shorter.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

"No" would have been shorter.

And it wouldn't have conveyed my point nearly as well.

 

[MeekMe]

I'll totally agree that we agree on some things. I do want to address this specifically though:

And you are correct, you can keep your kink personal and not let anyone in on it, that's your choice. But if someone wants to come out with their BDSM lifestyle, isn't it their right to do so without derision, fright, hysteria etc etc etc whatever negativity they are encountering?

I fully expect that anything made public knowledge is subject to public opinion. In my own totally heteronormative non-kink relationships, I have been subject to derision and negativity. Not to any real consequence, but once the information was made available I got to listen to a lot of shitty things said about me and my relationship.

People can and do say whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they won't get backlash from the majority if they don't agree. So yeah, someone outing themselves as being into BDSM opens themselves up to the opinion of others. People can certainly voice their disdain for it. I'm not condoning or saying it is right to do so, either.

 

[Bramblethorn]

GLBT can self identify and people can no longer discriminate, nor can they even openly criticize in many places.

I wish. People now have the right to same-sex marriage in most of the English-speaking world (not my bit) but there are still MANY other forms of discrimination.

For example - as of 2015, it was still legal in most US states to fire somebody for being gay, bi, or transgender. Arkansas and Tennessee have state laws that specifically ban local authorities from passing anti-discrimination ordnances. https://www.fastcompany.com/3057357...merica-you-can-still-get-fired-for-being-lgbt

Various forms of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which would address such discrimination, have been raised in Congress since 1974. It still hasn't passed; even if it did, the current drafts make big exceptions for religious-motivated discrimination.

Transgender people are vulnerable to being evicted for their gender identity, and often get turned away from shelters.

And that's just the stuff that happens legally. Australia has pretty good workplace protection laws (aside from religious exemptions) but I still know plenty of people who don't feel safe being out as LGBT, because laws only help when you can prove discrimination. Any half-intelligent boss can think of legit-sounding excuses to bully or fire an employee, with no risk of ever losing a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm not trying to pick an argument here, but please believe me, anti-LGBT discrimination is still hugely common.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Thank you for those links and info, Brambletborn. I honestly had no idea..

 

[rawsilk]

Bramblethorn, I commented on this thread simply to comfort and offer kindness to someone who appeared very upset, and with whom I had never had prior communication. I attempted to use my words to be supportive and comforting, to put a virtual arm around her shoulder, in as brief and succinct manner as possible.

My comments were solely for Bandicoot and her comfort. I had no expectation of an attack from a third party who insisted on instigating a debate, regarding a minor misunderstanding, of which they had created in their own mind.

The original comment to Bandicoot, regarding mental illness, was intended to imply we may all have some degree of mental illness, as referenced in a questionable medical reference book. My meaning being it behooves each of us not to be judgemental of others. Hence my throw away lines of casting stones and mental illness.

I am sure I could have phrased my comment with far more verbosity, better sentence structure, increased punctuation, and in a pompous manner than I had actually so done. However that is not my style when my comment was meant to be a brief, kind observation to a distressed lady.

This thread appears now to have been hijacked from comforting Bandicoot, to a debate on grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, publication and updates of questionable medical reference books, inane television shows and everything this thread should never have become.

Bandicoot and her distress should have been paramount to all our comments.

My words were brief and perhaps not phrased or punctuated to perfection, as required by a pedant for that, to you, I apologize.

Believing any further communication to each other, on this thread would be insulting to and of little value to Bandicoot, my suggestion to you is it should now desist. If you wish to continue your personal attack on me, feel free to do so within a PM.

 

[MeekMe]

Thanks Bramblethorn. You added all the stuff I just didn't have the resources to say. I know of these things I just can't organize myself to get it all out there. I really appreciate the resources you've posted.

Rawsilk, I believe Bandicoot007 is a man.

 

[SpunThings]

Bramblethorn, I commented on this thread simply to comfort and offer kindness to someone who appeared very upset, and with whom I had never had prior communication. I attempted to use my words to be supportive and comforting, to put a virtual arm around her shoulder, in as brief and succinct manner as possible.

My comments were solely for Bandicoot and her comfort. I had no expectation of an attack from a third party who insisted on instigating a debate, regarding a minor misunderstanding, of which they had created in their own mind.

The original comment to Bandicoot, regarding mental illness, was intended to imply we may all have some degree of mental illness, as referenced in a questionable medical reference book. My meaning being it behooves each of us not to be judgemental of others. Hence my throw away lines of casting stones and mental illness.

I am sure I could have phrased my comment with far more verbosity, better sentence structure, increased punctuation, and in a pompous manner than I had actually so done. However that is not my style when my comment was meant to be a brief, kind observation to a distressed lady.

This thread appears now to have been hijacked from comforting Bandicoot, to a debate on grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, publication and updates of questionable medical reference books, inane television shows and everything this thread should never have become.

Bandicoot and her distress should have been paramount to all our comments.

My words were brief and perhaps not phrased or punctuated to perfection, as required by a pedant for that, to you, I apologize.

Believing any further communication to each other, on this thread would be insulting to and of little value to Bandicoot, my suggestion to you is it should now desist. If you wish to continue your personal attack on me, feel free to do so within a PM.

This is not how internet forums work. You can use the private message feature if you want to say something not available for public comment.

 

[Blue]

I think people should be able to say absolutely whatever they want, ipso facto they necessarily also have no right to censor somebody else for saying something they disagree with. E.g if you're open about your abnormal sexuality then you can't cry over somebody telling you that you're messed up but you've got every right to deride them right back.
The whole point of "free speech" is to protect people in an intellectual minority anyway (e.g racists and bigots and, unfortunately, sometimes people who just disagree with a prevailing narrative regardless of either one's truth value). People who align with the mainstream thought need not worry about it.

Although I think there is a certain irony in somebody orientated toward BDSM calling gay people messed up.

 

[Primalex]

I honestly had no idea..

That's a recurring theme.

 

[Nezhul]

When Primalex can't troll Collar_N_Cuffs with his hypocritical opinions anymore, he just begins to try and troll with random offensive blurts =)
Just saying. Someone has sensed the smell of feed.

On topic though - people will always discriminate. They will always try and stomp out opinions and tendencies which they don't support, even if those things don't affect them at all. It's enough for other opinions to be there somewhere to make they want to suppress them.
It's how humans work. In truth, it's how natural selection is working in respect to such a new biological thing as consciousness.
I'm not saying you should just hang your hands and let others say you are sick for doing this or that. But I'm saying it will always, forever be there. When we, as a society, deal with gay and BDSM topics - there will be something else to try and suppress.

 

[Primalex]

When Primalex can't troll Collar_N_Cuffs with his hypocritical opinions anymore, he just begins to try and troll with random offensive blurts =)
Just saying.

I think you don't know what "hypocritical" means. Just saying.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

That's a recurring theme.

I'm not an internet troll dick who ridiculously tries to make the world believe that I'm always right, know everything, and am smarter than the entire universe (imagine our joy at finding such a person here though! ) so I don't mind saying when I don't know a thing. And it's not a recurring theme, but it happens, and when it does I'm ok with it.

I'll tell you what is a recurring theme, though. You being a twat.

 

[Netzach]

What it's about is the right to sexually self identify without being called fucked up. GLBT can self identify and people can no longer discriminate, nor can they even openly criticize in many places. Yet BDSM is socially not accepted (generally), and it still is a mystery, because it's widely misunderstood, misconstrued and maligned. People in this community want to bitch about that. People should bitch about it, and be free to do so without being criticized. Especially here.

What planet is this? It's better, but honestly, unless you are in a state of no plausible deniability, you need to let those precise "GLBT" people be the owners of how "fine" we all are.

It's bullshit that people can be witch hunted out of a job for being sexual beings, but honestly it's the one risk that levels straight ppl and queer ppl I guess. Watch your drunk facebook postings if you have a mother to protect, duh.

That is hardly the equivalent of literally THOUSANDS of years of sanctioned oppression.

 

[Netzach]

The whole mental illness yea or nay - honestly I'm inclined to deal with this the way some of my better therapists dealt with the question of sex work, BDSM, sexual complexities as part of my package.

"Is it a problem for you? Then it's a problem."

Like if other people just ceased to matter for five minutes, truly, are those things tied to problems in your life, causing new ones, making you more unhappy than happy, etc.

If not, then they're not your problems. They are other people's problems. You are not contractually obligated to let their problems with your identity fuck you up.

 

[Primalex]

I'm not an internet troll dick who ridiculously tries to make the world believe that I'm always right, know everything, and am smarter than the entire universe

Well, yes, you are, it seems. Who came in here trying to make the people believe she had a clue about sexual discrimination? That wasn't me. You are just upset I called you out.

I'll tell you what is a recurring theme, though. You being a twat.

It's possible to be right and a twat at the same time. Go figure.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

What planet is this? It's better, but honestly, unless you are in a state of no plausible deniability, you need to let those precise "GLBT" people be the owners of how "fine" we all are.

It's bullshit that people can be witch hunted out of a job for being sexual beings, but honestly it's the one risk that levels straight ppl and queer ppl I guess. Watch your drunk facebook postings if you have a mother to protect, duh.

That is hardly the equivalent of literally THOUSANDS of years of sanctioned oppression.

We can all have perspective on an issue, regardless of what side of the line one stands on. Even those on the sidelines have perspective.

The whole mental illness yea or nay - honestly I'm inclined to deal with this the way some of my better therapists dealt with the question of sex work, BDSM, sexual complexities as part of my package.

"Is it a problem for you? Then it's a problem."

Like if other people just ceased to matter for five minutes, truly, are those things tied to problems in your life, causing new ones, making you more unhappy than happy, etc.

If not, then they're not your problems. They are other people's problems. You are not contractually obligated to let their problems with your identity fuck you up.

It's too bad everyone doesn't judge their problems this way. It could save a lot of angst.

Well, yes, you are, it seems. Who came in here trying to make the people believe she had a clue about sexual discrimination? That wasn't me. You are just upset I called you out.



It's possible to be right and a twat at the same time. Go figure.

I didn't come here to make people believe anything about myself or others. And I'm not upset that you think you "called me out". It does, however, annoy me that people are unable to give their opinions without facing ridicule by small minded attention seekers. Personally I don't care, but I can't appreciate the resulting stifled atmosphere any time anyone wants to speak their mind.

And jumping thread to thread here being an internet bully, trying to intimidate posters from speaking their hearts and minds only puts you in the same sad sack of people trying to belittle, humiliate and beat down the exact groups most are here to celebrate and defend.

But thank you for finally owning the fact that you are a twat.

 

[Primalex]

It does, however, annoy me that people are unable to give their opinions without facing ridicule by small minded attention seekers.

It's interesting, after all you tried to ridicule my opinion that you do not have the right to not be called 'fucked up'. It's okay to ridicule the "wrong" opinion and wrong to ridicule the "right" opinion, right?

(Nezhul: Here you see an actual example of hypocritical behavior. Just for reference.)

And jumping thread to thread here being an internet bully, trying to intimidate posters from speaking their hearts and minds only puts you in the same sad sack of people trying to belittle, humiliate and beat down the exact groups most are here to celebrate and defend.

I'm letting my heart and my mind speak, too. I don't force people to write down dumb shit. It's their own free will to do that. I didn't force you to write about discrimination in the world although you had no idea about it, did I?

And last but not least:

We can all have perspective on an issue, regardless of what side of the line one stands on. Even those on the sidelines have perspective.

Yes, you are entitled to have an opinion about everything. But this does not mean you can state it without any kind of negative reaction. If I state that "fighting in a war is awesome, I watched Rambo" then this does not save me from being bitch slapped by an Omaha beach veteran.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

And so might begin the typical, long slow descent into personal attacks that I don't care to indulge in. Enjoy your shallow experiences here.