I have a solution...

[Guest]

I have been giving a lot of thought today to 1 bombs. Especially after seeing my latest story recieve four 5 votes then a 1, then several more 5s and another 1. it seems everytime the story gets above a 4.5 rating the uni-bombers strike.

I have an idea to stop this.

When voting, if someone casts a 1 vote that its inconsistant with other votes, they are taken to a page that explains their vote will not count unless they leave a public comment as to why they cast that vote. If the voter is a member no option to leave an anonymous feedback will be offered. They will have to identify themselves to cast the vote.

Oppinions?

 

[cloudy]

I have been giving a lot of thought today to 1 bombs. Especially after seeing my latest story recieve four 5 votes then a 1, then several more 5s and another 1. it seems everytime the story gets above a 4.5 rating the uni-bombers strike.

I have an idea to stop this.

When voting, if someone casts a 1 vote that its inconsistant with other votes, they are taken to a page that explains their vote will not count unless they leave a public comment as to why they cast that vote. If the voter is a member no option to leave an anonymous feedback will be offered. They will have to identify themselves to cast the vote.

Oppinions?

I think that's a great idea, but somehow doubt it would ever be put into use. Personally, I don't think folks should be able to vote anonymously at all, and we should be able to see who's voting.

There are those out there that boast of voting 1's on stories simply because they don't like the category.

*sigh*

 

[BlackShanglan]

It would be nice if people at least had to have a userid to vote. I don't see the purpose of having anonymous logins voting. However, I can also see the purpose in not having the actual identity of the voter revealed to the story writer. I learned the hard way that leaving a less-than-glowing (but not aggressive or bitchy - just advice on improvement) public comment was a fast track to being 1-bombed. Ah well. Live and learn

Shanglan

 

[CharleyH]

I have been giving a lot of thought today to 1 bombs. Especially after seeing my latest story recieve four 5 votes then a 1, then several more 5s and another 1. it seems everytime the story gets above a 4.5 rating the uni-bombers strike.

I have an idea to stop this.

When voting, if someone casts a 1 vote that its inconsistant with other votes, they are taken to a page that explains their vote will not count unless they leave a public comment as to why they cast that vote. If the voter is a member no option to leave an anonymous feedback will be offered. They will have to identify themselves to cast the vote.

Oppinions?

Unfortunately, it would be just as easy to create an alt identity, so really it's futile. We'd still get one votes. I had noticed on a particular story that I had 11 5's and suddenly 2 votes nocked me down so far that I could not understand how 2 votes could make so many good votes be discounted.

On another site I go to, which is not erotic, you must be a member to vote, you must vote on 5 stories, in order to vote, you must leave a review, and the review must adhere to certain rules. Only after 5 reviews can you, yourself have your story reviewed. Anyhow, it seems to keep the voting fair, but then again, real names and not alias' are used and the goal is to help eachother as authors.

This is a a particular kind of site, and some people, not all because there are many more 'fair' individuals out there than not, but some people vote down a story because it doesn't get them off. This is a pity, since not all erotic material is intended to be porn, and certainly not everything in the 'erotic' genre is in there to get people off.

All aside, this site has a small 'city' of members, which keeps growing. I can't imagine Laurel monitoring the voting system more than she does at the moment. One just has to accept there are vindictive people. You don't have to like it, no one does, but it is a fact in a voting system.

 

[pop_54]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... it aint the visitors who '1' vote... it's the members... most visiting readers don't even bother to vote because they don't understand the implications... and they certainly don't waste half their life trolling round the story boards pointlessly attacking voting figures.

Misunderstanding... Jealousy... unreasonable anger... and downright twisted minds are the reason for '1' votes... No story accepted for Lit is that bad it needs to be voted '1' on merit or lack of it... Well not recent ones anyway, since the rules were tightened up on spelling, grammar, and layout.

I fully agree with Dran... No one should be allowed to cast a '1' vote without leaving a valid reason and return address... likewise no one should be allowed to cast a '5' vote without leaving a glowing report and valid reason... Unsigned and undeserved '5' votes from friends and family are as misleading and unfair as '1' votes from trolls.

The major problem with '1' votes is that it takes half a dozen '4' or '5' votes on the trot to recover from a single '1' vote.

This voting system has caused so much hard feeling and anguish, something should be done to sort it out, and bloody soon.

 

[nushu2]

The only problem with limiting votes to members is that many categories (particularly sci-fi and fantasy) struggle to get 10 votes at all. Less than one percent of the readers actually vote and that drops off to nothing after the first couple days.

The fact is that readers vote on what they enjoy, for whatever reason, but it has little to do with artistic merit. After a number of stories, the readers you want will recognize your name. They might even look up your older stories. If we reduce our writing to a popularity contest, we all suffer.

The uni-bomber(s) is a nuisance and a creep, nothing more. It seems that the more we complain, the more he/she/it uses their own form of terrorism.

Laurel and Manu have provided a free and open forum to express our creativity and there will be problems just as there are in any democracy where everyone is allowed a vote. They must be getting tired of our complaints.

 

[thenry]

I fully agree with Dran... No one should be allowed to cast a '1' vote without leaving a valid reason and return address... likewise no one should be allowed to cast a '5' vote without leaving a glowing report and valid reason... Unsigned and undeserved '5' votes from friends and family are as misleading and unfair as '1' votes from trolls.

Hear, hear. Some people "leave a five or leave nothing at all" and the practice is just as obscuring and far more prevalent than unibombing.

 

[BlackShanglan]

No story accepted for Lit is that bad it needs to be voted '1' on merit or lack of it... Well not recent ones anyway, since the rules were tightened up on spelling, grammar, and layout.

I'm not sure that I agree with this. I mean, if there is no reason for a "1" vote, then why do we have it? It's like pizza places that don't sell "small," just medium, large, and extra large. Well, the smallest is small compared to the others, isn't it? I think that a "1" might and should represent "bottom of the heap in relation to the other stories." In that sense, there should always be 1's. Even if we're all writing brilliantly, it's still fair to say that some of it is the most brilliant, and some of it the least.

Mine, of course, is from the latter category It's OK, I can take it. I'm a horse; it's amazing that I can even type, let alone write.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure that I agree with this. I mean, if there is no reason for a "1" vote, then why do we have it? It's like pizza places that don't sell "small," just medium, large, and extra large. Well, the smallest is small compared to the others, isn't it? I think that a "1" might and should represent "bottom of the heap in relation to the other stories." In that sense, there should always be 1's. Even if we're all writing brilliantly, it's still fair to say that some of it is the most brilliant, and some of it the least.

Mine, of course, is from the latter category It's OK, I can take it. I'm a horse; it's amazing that I can even type, let alone write.

Shanglan

Well I just got hit for the third time in one day. And again on another story that didn't even have 10 votes from 5 months ago.

Something NEEDS to change. I'm all for, "no annonymous voting". At least you could trust the results. This is being done for malice and it CAN be stopped.

 

[Goldie Munro]

You know I used to care about the voting thing - ok it is nice to get that red H but one of my stories which has one of the lowest scores I have has given me the most glowing public comments and the most positive feedback! The voting scores are arbitary - depending so much on the readership and category - maybe it could be improved but who knows!!

Goldie xx

 

[R. Richard]

I would definitely like to see a system where the author (and Laurel and Manu) can see who voted and what numerical vote each voter assigned.

If I write a story and most of the voters think it is 4 or 5 material and I get several 1 votes, I can politely contact the 1 individuals and find out why. If it is because they just don't like my story, don't like me, or don't respond, I should be able to submit the evidence and have the one vote removed. If I turned in a piece of crap with mispelled word, misused words, horrible grammer and terrible (or no) plot, I take my lumps.

I do get useful feedback and am grateful for same, even if the attitude is negative. However, an anonymous message that says, "Learn to write." is a waste of my time and the writer's time.

One final rant is the message that says something like "If anyone writes about Incest/Taboo/Horror/Partner Swapping, they should be executed." Hello! This is Literotica. Literotica is about sex, including topics that may not please everyone. If you don't like certain types of stories, don't read them.

JMHO.

 

[Goldie Munro]

I can see that if there was no anonymous voting then there may be less under 3 votings going on but there are so few votings going on compared with actual viewings (and I'm qualifying this here - viewing does not mean reading!) that if voting wasn't anonymous voting would be ever rarer. Having to justify a vote would make even less people vote!

As authors dont we have to accept that we are going to get bombed by others whether it is from jealousy, malice or just plain I dont like you story! If I dont like a story then I dont vote at all rather than give it below 3 but then thats just me I guess.


Goldie xx

 

[BlackShanglan]

If I write a story and most of the voters think it is 4 or 5 material and I get several 1 votes, I can politely contact the 1 individuals and find out why. If it is because they just don't like my story, don't like me, or don't respond, I should be able to submit the evidence and have the one vote removed. If I turned in a piece of crap with mispelled word, misused words, horrible grammer and terrible (or no) plot, I take my lumps.

I can't agree with this. In the end, there is no "proof" that can be offered. Having sent stories around for review to people I know and respect, I have seen myself that there really can be that big of a difference in opinion. Different people can perceive the same story as great or totally useless. In fact, in my own life I can think of works of literature that I have thought excellent at one point and awful at another, or vice versa. Because quality is to some extent a matter of taste, opinion will always have a range.

I think that "proving" a work did not deserve a one vote would be quite difficult. More, it would be an enormous amount of extra work for the Literotica staff, who as far as I can tell must have their hands full with the huge numbers of submissions anyway.

Besides, in the end, I imagine that the 1's must balance out. That is, if it's a common problem, it's a problem that everyone is dealing with as a whole. If that's the case, then our ranking relative to each other isn't really suffering - we're all being troll-bombed. God knows I have been - you can really see it when a high-voted story suddenly gets hit with two or three 1's in a row. But given that it's an equal hazard to pretty much everyone, perhaps it's not skewing rankings all that much?

Shanglan

 

[The_old_man]

I seldom even check vote count. As for spelling/gramme errors, The first story I submitted was not edited for those errors. I submitted it raw before I lost my nerve. It is not in the most popular category, has a very simple plot, and is not "literary."

It rose to mid 4s and has stayed there!

If this happened to me, and other stories that are much better written get bombed, I do not care much for the vote reliability.

The most enjoyable vote on the story was from a reader who sent feed-back and explained the vote.

 

[snooper]

I don't allow voting on my stories, and I never vote myself. I do send private comments to authors sometimes, and leave public comments occasionally.

My eschewing of the voting system is because I don't understand it. If it is intended to be grading, as would be done at school, then surely any story you start to read should be assumed to be average, ie 3, and then get plus points for things which are good, like very credible characters, an interesting plot, etc; and minus points for faults, like failing to spell check, execrable grammar, changing a character's name in the middle, no plot, etc. In that case most stories would get somewhere between 2 and 4.

In practice, as can be seen in this and the many other threads on this topic, anything less than a 4 is regarded as either an insult or sabotage, and 4 is regarded as criticism.

 

[oggbashan]

I think like snooper - the voting system is skewed.

It seems that the reality is that any vote lower than 4 is apparently unfair and unjust. The bias is that all stories should be in the range from 4.00 to 5.00 and only the stinkers score lower than 4.00. (I have a few lower than 3.00 but they were 'experimental', or that is my excuse. Bad? Never!)

A 1 vote would have little effect if a score of 3.00 was satisfactory or average.

Og

 

[GingerV]

Maybe a two tier system? Anonymous votes are worth 1/2 as much. Hang on, that's not literally what I meant...how about I put it the other way around. Non-anonymous votes count twice?

If there's someone with a personal grudge, they can register any number of times and beat the tar out of you, I admit. But it's a rating system, no rating system is perfect. Subjective scoring is always subject to fault, bias and mistake. Even when done by trained professionals, just ask the gymnasts.

 

[thenry]

I see a lot of "replace the whole voting system" suggestions. I think it would be interesting to have a three pronged system with three voting scores visible. Maybe three high lists as well, or at least the option to sort by the different scores.

The first score would be the aggregate or average of every score. Basically the current scoring system.

The second score is the average by registered members.

The third is the average by those leaving or sending substantial feedback.

Could the same vote be counted for all three scores? Yes. Is the information by the three different groups valuable? I think so. What I'm trying to say is I would like to see the existence and explanation for a bi- or trimodal voting curve and not the simple arithmatic mean.

I often wish amazon.com would do the same thing. What I see reported is the average star rating, yet what I'm interested in are the reviews by intellegent readers who have read a lot of books, the power reviewers or whatever they're called. But I would also like to have the opinion of the actual average, all the people who couldn't make it past the third page as well as those who liked the message and believe that characterization is overrated.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think the best solution to one votes is to ignore them. I have my own personal one troll, soon as a story goes up, he is there with his one and inane feedback attacking some aspect of my work with a psuedo academic flavor.

I have come to believe that the uni bombers lurk here and when they find someone who it bothers, they go into high gear. I write for myself and for those who like my works. I rarely check my pc's and almost never check my vote totals. It seems to me the folks who could care less, like Pops & Charley are the ones who almost never get bothered, while anyone who cares finds themselves inundated.

That seems to go for feedback an PC's as well. The only pleasure someone can take from one bombing is knowing it gets to you. If you don't even notice, they tend to find someone else to harass.

I like annon feedback, some of my kindest and most thoughtful feedbacks are from straight women who find themselves curious after reading my works. If they had to identify themselves, I seriously doubt many of them would ever write to me. That one mail, from the 90 year old in the nursing home, who loved my stories and related her own single experience, back before I was even born and told me my work reminded her of it and brought a tear to her eye. That response is priceless and worth a thousand of the thoughtless "you are a sick bitch" annon hits.

-Colly

 

[GingerV]

Wow, Colly. If I ever got a feedback like that, I think I'd frame it or carry it around in my wallet. What a wonderful thing to have done.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Wow, Colly. If I ever got a feedback like that, I think I'd frame it or carry it around in my wallet. What a wonderful thing to have done.

I saved it. Occasionally, when I am down about my writing I go and re read it. I really wish she had been brave enough to give me a return address. I would love to tell her how much her fedback meant to me. It was on my second story, Irish Eyes and I was getting some crappy feedbacks on it. She totally restoked my desire to write and my entuhsiasm for telling tales.

-Colly

 

[DirtyJJ]

I have never been able to find out the answer to this question: how do you see your individual votes to know if you have been 1-bombed?
JJ

 

[pop_54]

I have never been able to find out the answer to this question: how do you see your individual votes to know if you have been 1-bombed?
JJ

You don't see much JJ and the voting versus readers, versus time, versus votes cast, is too complex to detail here... but what you see is a story or several stories happily riding along around 4.6 for ages, then it / they suddenly drop to 3.5, you been '1' bombed... then hold on to your hat if you care about votes, cos it will take ages and half a dozen '5' votes to get back to 4.5

I stopped worrying about votes a long time ago, and go for months without checking them... I only started checking regularly again when the public comments thing was invented to see if anyone had left a message that needed a courtesy reply. However, I know a lot of more serious authors than me do care, and do get very pissed off by the '1' bomb that arrives with no comment... any story riding along above 4 for a while, isn't '1' vote material, a '1' vote on that quality of story is malicious... either deliberately malicious... or the malicious result of ignorance.