Low-Vote Bombing/bullying on Contest entries

[chloehunt]

Has anyone else experienced these low-vote bombing attacks when their story is doing well in the special contests? My story "A Clamp Camp Orgasm" had a score of 4.73 this morning and over a hundred votes, now about three votes later it's at 4.59. It sat for a week at 4.76. I put so much hard work (a month's worth) into my story and my early readers loved it. It's also depressing that it has over 21.5K reads and only 104 votes and some of those are vote bombs. I wish everyone could actually see the tally of the different star votes to see just how many cheaters/bullies are doing the vote bombing across the entries. Amazon and Google have star-rating breakdowns for everyone to see. Why can't authors have this simple reassuring transparency since we work out butts off and provide free entertainment? These attacks make my hard work feel like a waste of time.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Those number seem to imply somebody voted zero?

I wouldn't mind seeing the breakdown you're asking for, but as far as we can tell, there's exactly one person, Manu, working on the site. It's custom software (as far as we know) so they can't just buy off-the-shelf addons for features like that. I'd like to see Manu finish the Series feature before starting on any new projects. And fix Favorites and Lists.

 

[RoperTrace]

That is mathematically impossible if you had 3 x 1 score with 100 or 101 at 4.73. Even with three (0)'s, you'd be at 4. 63. Don't despair, it happens to everyone. As your story ages, it may well go higher. It works both ways, only not during the time of a contest.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

That is mathematically impossible if you had 3 x 1 score with 100 or 101 at 4.73. Even with three (0)'s, you'd be at 4. 63. Don't despair, it happens to everyone. As your story ages, it may well go higher. It works both ways, only not during the time of a contest.

I've read on this forum about "sweeps", where Literotica goes back through past ratings and removes suspicious ones. I wonder if that's what happened.

-Rocco

 

[chloehunt]

That is mathematically impossible if you had 3 x 1 score with 100 or 101 at 4.73. Even with three (0)'s, you'd be at 4. 63. Don't despair, it happens to everyone. As your story ages, it may well go higher. It works both ways, only not during the time of a contest.

Yep, it doesn't make any sense. It's like a bunch of readers cast a vote then came back later at the same time and changed their votes to 1 star. It's like, what's the point of the votes if they're this inconsistent and don't reflect anything concrete?

Btw, thanks for the encouraging words and the reply <3

 

[StillStunned]

This is why I've given up on entering contests.

People say, "The bombers are readers who want their favourite author's story to do well." I'm not buying it. Nothing I've seen here on Lit makes me believe that readers care that much about the stories or the people who write them. No, I reckon it's writers, people who should understand how much time, effort and emotion goes into writing a story.

The site runs a series of sweeps just before the winners are announced, and that corrects a lot of the bombing. But the whole practice has put me off contests.

 

[bobbiecox2]

Never entered any contest on here, but I have seen some of my story numbers take a drive due to the content/category. I have a few post in the interracial category and there are people won love that type as well as those haters.

It's pretty clear by the category, why read something you disagree with.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

It's pretty clear by the category, why read something you disagree with?

One might think so, yet I’ve had comments explicitly saying that the story in question was well-written but the commentator didn’t like that subject, so 3.

 

[bobbiecox2]

One might think so, yet I’ve had comments explicitly saying that the story in question was well-written but the commentator didn’t like that subject, so 3.

Crazy, guess some need to voice their thoughts. Maybe they ought trying writing and posting a work, you know put yourself out there like we do!

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've read on this forum about "sweeps", where Literotica goes back through past ratings and removes suspicious ones. I wonder if that's what happened.

-Rocco

Probably. A sweep removes suspect votes, so Vote counts can drop, and Scores suddenly move around.

There's a Contest running at the moment, so there will be sweeps. Everyone gets the benefit of a sweep, they run through the whole story data base - certainly as far back as ten years.

@chloehunt my rule of thumb is one Vote per hundred Views, one Comment per thousand. Literotica is a feedback lite site. If you do better than that, especially comments-wise, your story is either far better than usual, or far worse. If you're in the middle of the bell-curve, it's often silence. Some categories are exceptions to that rule of thumb.

If you specifically want feedback, start a thread in the Feedback Forum. You won't get a deluge, but you might get someone passing by.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is why I've given up on entering contests.

People say, "The bombers are readers who want their favourite author's story to do well." I'm not buying it. Nothing I've seen here on Lit makes me believe that readers care that much about the stories or the people who write them. No, I reckon it's writers, people who should understand how much time, effort and emotion goes into writing a story.

I've never bought into the "jealous writer" theory - we're more obsessed with our own stuff, not someone else's (although, for sure there are the rare exceptions, where a clown will go on the attack).

I'm far more inclined to think it's fucktard trolls, just because they can. When I first joined Lit, ten years ago, for sure there were rabid fans voting stories up, voting stories down (that's why the sweeps were introduced in the first place), but I don't think those fan bases are around so much, not any more.

 

[chloehunt]

One might think so, yet I’ve had comments explicitly saying that the story in question was well-written but the commentator didn’t like that subject, so 3.

Yep, I've had similar comments that make me roll my eyes so hard my head hurts afterward.

 

[RejectReality]

I've never bought into the "jealous writer" theory - we're more obsessed with our own stuff, not someone else's (although, for sure there are the rare exceptions, where a clown will go on the attack).

I'm far more inclined to think it's fucktard trolls, just because they can. When I first joined Lit, ten years ago, for sure there were rabid fans voting stories up, voting stories down (that's why the sweeps were introduced in the first place), but I don't think those fan bases are around so much, not any more.

I have no doubt that some authors are trolling the contests. I don't believe it's anything more than a couple of odd assholes, though.

There's distinct patterns to the trolling in contests/toplists. It starts at the top. Once a story has a score that's low enough that it's no longer a threat, the bombs stop coming. ( accounting for the places where score is visible to update so the trolls can confirm the score is no longer a threat. Until that happens, the bombs will keep coming ) That's a pattern that's consistent with someone who has a vested interest in the scores of the contest/toplist, not random trolling. Authors would have to be reasonably knowledgeable and willing to invest a decent amount of time to make more than a token difference. Even more if they wanted to try and make their low votes stick through the sweeps. Unless they're very new or out of the loop, trolling without making an attempt to evade the Hoover would be a complete waste of time, further limiting their potential influence through the sheer weight of time and effort.

In order to generate the kind of swings we see in contests and the toplists, the only culprit that fits the observations is the legions of fans.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Unless they're very new or out of the loop, trolling without making an attempt to evade the Hoover would be a complete waste of time, further limiting their potential influence through the sheer weight of time and effort.

In order to generate the kind of swings we see in contests and the toplists, the only culprit that fits the observations is the legions of fans.

I don't pay much attention to the top lists, but yes, I've seen repeated evidence of the "threshold effect" you describe. As you say, that can only be devoted fans. I wonder if they even know sweeps exist? If they're not writers, there's no reason they would. Sweeps are an arcane mystery, hidden in plain sight, but if readers aren't writers and don't see the detail in their own story stats - they wouldn't see the effect of a sweep.

If they did, why would they waste their time?

 

[RejectReality]

I don't pay much attention to the top lists, but yes, I've seen repeated evidence of the "threshold effect" you describe. As you say, that can only be devoted fans. I wonder if they even know sweeps exist? If they're not writers, there's no reason they would. Sweeps are an arcane mystery, hidden in plain sight, but if readers aren't writers and don't see the detail in their own story stats - they wouldn't see the effect of a sweep.

If they did, why would they waste their time?

They don't. I firmly believe that most of them are just cheekily dropping an extra five on their favorite or a 1 on the other contestants. That's why the scores so jump so dramatically and universally in every contest. Those votes aren't making any attempt to avoid the Hoover that they don't know exists, so they inevitably vanish.

Most of them aren't even genuinely malicious. It's just like peeking at shoes while playing Heads-Up Seven-Up or something. They also don't know that their cheerleading and little bombs end up hurting the author more than they help, because their original five probably ends up going away with all of the shenanigans, so you lose that as well. It's a net loss for the author. Which is why I advocate for regularly saying that you don't want that sort of help. Once you tell them to stop, most of them stop. If you tell them not to start in the first place, they don't.

 

[FreyaGersemi]

I reckon it's writers, people who should understand how much time, effort and emotion goes into writing a story.

It has to be. Every time I post something about one of my stories on the Author's Forum, it's immediately followed by a bunch of votes and a drop in rating. Sad. I've never rated below a 5. I have not rated a story, but I wouldn't want to actively hurt someone with a low rating vote. But, whatever. Good stories will find their audience and that's what matters.

 

[Melody_Lightdraft2]

Has anyone else experienced these low-vote bombing attacks when their story is doing well in the special contests? My story "A Clamp Camp Orgasm" had a score of 4.73 this morning and over a hundred votes, now about three votes later it's at 4.59. It sat for a week at 4.76. I put so much hard work (a month's worth) into my story and my early readers loved it. It's also depressing that it has over 21.5K reads and only 104 votes and some of those are vote bombs. I wish everyone could actually see the tally of the different star votes to see just how many cheaters/bullies are doing the vote bombing across the entries. Amazon and Google have star-rating breakdowns for everyone to see. Why can't authors have this simple reassuring transparency since we work out butts off and provide free entertainment? These attacks make my hard work feel like a waste of time.

You can't please every reader, and as a self-published author myself, you soon develop a thick skin.
It's a reflection of our species, some just get a kick out of bullying. "Noli pati a scelestis opprimi."

 

[designatedvictim]

Has anyone else experienced these low-vote bombing attacks when their story is doing well in the special contests? My story "A Clamp Camp Orgasm" had a score of 4.73 this morning and over a hundred votes, now about three votes later it's at 4.59. It sat for a week at 4.76. I put so much hard work (a month's worth) into my story and my early readers loved it. It's also depressing that it has over 21.5K reads and only 104 votes and some of those are vote bombs. I wish everyone could actually see the tally of the different star votes to see just how many cheaters/bullies are doing the vote bombing across the entries. Amazon and Google have star-rating breakdowns for everyone to see. Why can't authors have this simple reassuring transparency since we work out butts off and provide free entertainment? These attacks make my hard work feel like a waste of time.

I'm brand new at this and for validation watch the votes on my stuff.

I noticed early last week my first submission had two fewer votes. I didn't think it was possible to 'unvote,' but there it was. The 'sweeps' mentioned might suggest a possible reason.

I also had to wonder about the person who dinged one of my later parts. Getting 5, 5, 1, 5... makes me wonder who and why they voted that way.

The point about vote breakdowns is something I agree with. As the authors, we can see how many votes were cast (to me, having a high rating with a *lot* of votes cast is much more impressive than a high score with only a handful of votes), but unless you're neurotically recording votes as they come in, it's impossible to determine the distribution. I wish the vote count was available across the board - a full breakdown would be better.

Getting a 1-2 percent vote-to-read ratio is probably about all you could expect.

Percentages for comments is even worse.

As Melody said, you can't please every reader.

 

[FreyaGersemi]

I also had to wonder about the person who dinged one of my later parts. Getting 5, 5, 1, 5... makes me wonder who and why they voted that way.

Of course, a 1 vote could just be someone being mean on purpose. But other than that, I've had people hate stories to the point that they tell me that will they are unfollowing me and will not read any more of my work. One particular instance happened on a story with dozens of votes and a 4.7 rating. They just didn't like the storyline and the main character. Also, my understanding is that certain categories "need" to contain certain elements and need to avoid certain elements. So, if you submit a story in "BlahBlah" category, it better not have "this," "this," or "this" in it or readers will be very upset and will down-vote a story. Even if it's a good story.

Bottom line, there are a multitude of reasons a person will vote the way they vote and it's near impossible to figure each and every person out.

I'm brand new at this and for validation watch the votes on my stuff.

Good luck and try to have fun!

 

[designatedvictim]

Of course, a 1 vote could just be someone being mean on purpose. But other than that, I've had people hate stories to the point that they tell me that will they are unfollowing me and will not read any more of my work. One particular instance happened on a story with dozens of votes and a 4.7 rating. They just didn't like the storyline and the main character. Also, my understanding is that certain categories "need" to contain certain elements and need to avoid certain elements. So, if you submit a story in "BlahBlah" category, it better not have "this," "this," or "this" in it or readers will be very upset and will down-vote a story. Even if it's a good story.

Bottom line, there are a multitude of reasons a person will vote the way they vote and it's near impossible to figure each and every person out.

Good luck and try to have fun!

Thanks.

Yeah, in my short time as a writer, here (I've visited on occasion in the past as a reader, but publishing a story is a brand new departure for me), I've come to the conclusion that I didn't look into the subtleties of posting before I took the plunge.

Since publishing it, I've only received a handful of comments on two of the five segments. The first chunk got two 'thanks for posting'-types of comments and the third got a comment that sounded like the guy was trying hard not to be mean, not sounding like a complaint, with some actual critique of the writing. He was right, he pointed out something that was blindingly obvious (and annoying to a reader) that I kept glossing over (speaker-tagging). We had a few comments in exchange. I've tried to keep it in mind since. I've edited the first parts (submitted, but not updated yet) and adjusted the following ones.

I've come to the conclusion that, no, you can't please everybody and people who maintain high scores are either really good or really lucky. (As you say, with a categorization, reader expectations are being selected, too.)

I also hadn't realized how picking the wrong category can dramatically impact view counts and comments.

I picked N&N because I knew mine was long, not because of content type. Each chapter could qualify as a novella (14K words/32K words/25K words and counting). Views/votes/comments have been... lacking.

And, because the vote counts are low, those 1s ding hard.

 

[MiaBabe23]

I’m not sure I’m convinced that the fact the majority love a piece must mean everyone will
No doubt people get lower ratings for less valid reasons - not liking the theme etc - but sometimes, someone will genuinely not like the story
Why is our love of our own writing more legitimate as a pov than someone disliking it? They’re probably not ranking the effort that went in, but whether it entertained or aroused them

 

[SaraLab]

I also hadn't realized how picking the wrong category can dramatically impact view counts and comments.

Sometimes while something may technically be in the correct category, it still may be different than readers who like the category are looking for. So you have to weather that initial mixed or downward trend until it settles down and the rating can climb back up to where it should be.

 

[designatedvictim]

Sometimes while something may technically be in the correct category, it still may be different than readers who like the category are looking for.

True.

In my case, about the only other category that I could imagine dropping it into would be EC.

There are a few good pieces in the library here outlining the basics of each category and the expectations in each.

It's not Anal, although that will be touched upon in an upcoming section, not E&V, despite two very brief potential flashing scenes, not Group or Lesbian, despite a flashback in the next section to a college-girl-experimentation-threesome, not T&M despite some brief, um, impromptu improvised toy usage, and I don't really consider it Romance - there's not enough plot for that!

I don't think it wanders into any other potential categories.

I dropped it into Novels & Novellas solely due to length. That category has a pretty broad scope.

What I'd already had when I published the first two days' (chapter's) activities weighed in at something close to 46K words, so N&N seemed appropriate at the time.

The story, itself, is pretty vanilla, actually. Friends deciding that a weekend alone together is the perfect opportunity to get busy - a pretty stock scenario, actually.

I was kind of amused by the comment saying it started slow. The characters got naked by about 5K words in (early page 2 of 4) but only got to start the actual sex at about 11.2K words (page 4 of 4 and naked throughout) out of a 14.7K word chapter.

They even start to get a bit talkier on Day 3, driving up word count even more.

Clearly, Lit readers want to get into the action faster.

And I thought I was going too quick.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I noticed early last week my first submission had two fewer votes. I didn't think it was possible to 'unvote,' but there it was. The 'sweeps' mentioned might suggest a possible reason.

Sweeps remove votes, so yes, your vote count can drop. Your score usually jumps up.

I also had to wonder about the person who dinged one of my later parts. Getting 5, 5, 1, 5... makes me wonder who and why they voted that way.

You're dealing with the incomprehensible. Don't sweat it, and wait for the sweeps.

The point about vote breakdowns is something I agree with. As the authors, we can see how many votes were cast (to me, having a high rating with a *lot* of votes cast is much more impressive than a high score with only a handful of votes), but unless you're neurotically recording votes as they come in, it's impossible to determine the distribution. I wish the vote count was available across the board - a full breakdown would be better.

Never going to happen.

Getting a 1-2 percent vote-to-read ratio is probably about all you could expect.

Percentages for comments is even worse.

My rule of thumb over ten years and a million and a half words, is one Vote per hundred Views, one Comment per thousand. A couple of categories comment more but vote low, some categories are wastelands.

If your comment ratio is higher than that, you've either got a very good story or a very bad one. If you in the middle of the bell curve, expect silence.

As Melody said, you can't please every reader.

You'd be a fool to try.