I hate men! -rant

[Le Jacquelope]

Actually someone did start an I hate women thread. It wasn't taken very seriously and died out pretty quickly.

People who put up nonsense threads like that are squashed faster than you can say "warp speed".
Does anyone remember Andrew Dice Clay? No? I wonder why..............

And i did take a lot of flack.

Mainly from men, whose opinion can of course be discounted because they "don't understand your pain".

Edited to add: except Debbie, whom one can naturally expect to show some integrity.

Lemme summarize this: How would you like it if some black people sat around saying you're evil because you're whitey? And if you hate men, why haven't you tried women?

 

[MWG]

Still showing off your inferiority complex, LT?

 

[warrior queen]

ok, enough already!
i love men, and by god i need one NOW!!!

(horribly horny and this thread keeps popping up, dammit!)

 

[GeorgeWBush]

On behalf of myself, I would apologize, but I don't think that's what you want.

Do I treat women different from men?

Yes.

I try to censor my speech around women.

I try to be polite and kind to women I don't know, even the drunk assholey ones, when men who are being drunken assholes I tend to tell to go fuck themselves.

I try to open doors for women.

Do I treat women as second class citizens?

No.

I don't think women are stupid. I actually think a lot of them are smarter than a lot of men. I think that women are special, because they are different from me. I try to honour their differences (Vive la difference!), and respect their needs. Do I tell them that they can't do a job because they're a girl? No. I know too many self-sufficent women to even think that way. I will help if asked for, and at times, even if it it not asked for, in the same way I would help a guy. If they're going to hurt themselves to prove they're tough, I try to avoid that.

I merely treat them differently. Maybe I am sexist. That's a part of me I can live with. It's the same part of me that defends women from idiots, that keeps drunken morons from molesting people and going to jail, and the part of me that beat the utter shit out of a rapist.

I am actually rather fond of that part of me.

What he said. I love women to much to hurt.

 

[Squeezenplease]

You people need to mellow out a bit...enough said

 

[Wolf_77]

OK. Lets see here. I enetered this thread to see how some guy(s) fucked over a woman. I expected to hear something about social stuctures, social norms for women vs men, etc. I was right of course (just cuz eveyday there is a men vs women scandal). I stopped reading this after midway into the second page.

No one can generalize either sex, much too diverse. There r far too many different types of people in each sex. There r the retards, butt-plugs, intellects, artisians, honest, scum, rapist,lovers, politician (scum, filth, dirty, bastards) etc.

Personally, I try noy to judge anyone, be it ale, female, etc. I try to treat everyone equally.

YES, when my wife asks me to do something, I ask WHY. If you ask, its because I like to know why. Gives me a better reason to get off the computer, or working on my car, or whatever I'm doing, to justify having to leave it to do what she asks for.

No, i dont feel the part of a hero. I try to be me and do what I can. BUT, when your SO asks for something as often as every 15 mins., it either ets annoying (because the SO does realize that maybe what I'm doing is important to me) or inflates an ego.

I may only be 25, but like most everyone else, i have seen this "i hate men," "i hate women" bullshit far too often. The only time u see it is when there has been injustice. OK, fine, but play it when there has been justice. It would constantly be on TV .

All i'm trying to say (without another off on a tangent thing) is this : sorry to hear you were fucked over by some loser and that you see a lot of sexist bullshit. Stand up for what you see and others will follow. Perhaps the next time, the conclusion will be different.

kumba - ya!! ,,where's the marshmellows??

Anyone got another log for the bonfire???

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Still showing off your inferiority complex, LT?

Still showing off your hatred of men, MWG?

Haven't you had enough of tangling with me and being forced to make up shit I've never said and then cowering in silence when I call you on it and you can't come up with any posts by me to back it up?

Gutless coward.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Originally posted by Wolf_77

YES, when my wife asks me to do something, I ask WHY. If you ask, its because I like to know why. Gives me a better reason to get off the computer, or working on my car, or whatever I'm doing, to justify having to leave it to do what she asks for.

I understand that sometimes we want to know Why we are doing something, but I will give you a more clear example of what I mean. This is only one example, I do realize this, but I have seen it many times. A woman that I know asked a man not to lean on her car. Without moving, he asked "why" Later that same day, she asked a woman not to lean on her car. She moved quickly and *then* asked the woman why it bothered her. Yes, they both asked, but to me the first response was disrespectful. I have noticed that men do not move to quickly when a request is made by a women. A woman's authority (in this case, her authority over her personal belonging) seems always to be in question. The attitude that comes accross is 'I will do what you have asked *only* if you can provide a good reason.' I do not see men questioning other men in this way. If a guy told another guy not to lean on his car, the guy would move.

Yes, I know that not all men act like this. And there are disrespectful women too. But a patern does exist whereas men tend to take other men much more seriously than women- and I find that offensive. Not all men are sexist- BUT, sexist attitudes are celebrated and supported in this society. Pointing out even the most blatent of these attitudes will useually be insulted, belittlled, and accused of being frivoulous, humourless and uptight. This is just another form of condescending behavior meant to intimidate and silence.



I may only be 25, but like most everyone else, i have seen this "i hate men," "i hate women" bullshit far too often. The only time u see it is when there has been injustice. OK, fine, but play it when there has been justice. It would constantly be on TV .

Injuctice and Justice is not an either or proposition. Both exist at all times. There is always injustice, for those with eyes to see it. We can't fix it by pretending that it doesn't exist because there is justice elsewhere.

All i'm trying to say (without another off on a tangent thing) is this : sorry to hear you were fucked over by some loser and that you see a lot of sexist bullshit. Stand up for what you see and others will follow. Perhaps the next time, the conclusion will be different.

The assumption is continuously being made that this is about me being fucked over and that I have taken the actions of one man and held all men guilty for them. I did not state or imply that, and it seems like just another way to discredit and minimize my viewpoint.

I do however, appreciate and agree with your comment to 'stand up for what you see and others will follow.' What I see is a sexist society that contains men and women some of whom are sexist and some of whom are not. However I will not pretend to believe that it is an equal ballance.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Still showing off your hatred of men, MWG?

Heaven forbid! What could possibly be worse than that! Great way to shut her up, don't forget to acuse her of being an ugly feminist dyke.


reposted from another thread:
When I posted this on the GB, a certain male member posted and "I hate women" thread, which went widely ignored. I think there is a certain stigma -beyond sexism- that goes with 'man-hating' By that I mean, women who are feminists and/or lesbians are often labled as 'man-haters' as if this is the worst thing in the world. It's obvioulsy not good to hate half of the worlds population (or slightly less), but I think its something more than that. ONe woman posted that she much prefered the company of men and listed some of the negative stereotypes of women's friendships- and no one seemed to feel that that was sexist at all. It seems that it is acceptable for women to distain female friendships, but not acceptable to have that distain for men. I felt at the time that I just needed to fly in the face of that stigma, and declare that I hate men, something that women the world over seem to fear being accused of. I guess in a similer way that women have tried to reclaim words like 'bitch' 'slut' and even 'cunt.'

 

[sweetnpetite]

sexism in advertising

"The exploitation of women in the media has become so commonplace, particularly in advertising, that most people fail to get outraged or even notice it anymore. But many women do care about these images and understand their true power. "

"More viewers watch the Super Bowl each year than any other television event, and the shocker is that nearly half of that audience is female! Companies like Pepsi and Anheuser-Bush were willing to pay $2.2 million for 30 seconds of airtime during this year's game because they believe that advertising has the power to influence people. If commercials are so effective at selling products, they also must be capable of selling stereotypes."

"In January, the NOW Foundation released its first-ever Feminist Super Bowl AdWatch. Our Watch Out, Listen Up! campaign, which has issued reports on the TV networks' primetime shows over the last three years, recruited volunteers to grade the ads and choose the best and worst based on their portrayal of women, people of color and other groups that are often used as easy punchlines."

"The report generated mail both pro and con, with the strongest comments coming from men determined to discourage the NOW Foundation from any further criticism of the advertising industry. They employed two simple methods that have been used against feminists for decades:

1.Name-calling. Foes of feminism labeled NOW women as "a bunch of humorless, shrieking harpies," "fat, ugly lesbian types," and "bitter old women who couldn't find a husband," in an attempt to humiliate and intimidate us.

2.Accusations of overreacting. Some writers—attempting to belittle and discredit NOW's concerns—provided this advice: "Maybe you should stop fighting everything and go along with the flow, ride it out, life is too short," and "Try directing your energy to more worthwhile causes like third-world hunger, or your city's homeless population."

Feminists often face insults and patronizing comments when we question the status quo. By analyzing the Super Bowl commercials, however, the NOW Foundation remained true to perhaps the most important principle of feminism—that many, many factors work together to limit women's status in society."

"But feminists also know that she/he who controls the media controls the flow of information and the power of perception."

"On Super Bowl day, and pretty much every day of the year, the mainstream media promote women as eye candy, valued for little more than their desirability and eagerness to please. Until the media and the advertising industry develop a newfound respect for women, the struggle to be taken seriously and viewed as equals will continue. Feminists can lead them toward that respect."

to view the entire article:
http://www.now.org/nnt/spring-2003/superbowl.html

In short, sexism does still exist, and it is pretty mainstream- not the exception. If this were not true, adversisers would not spend big bucks promoting and trading off these attitudes. In general, they like to spend advertising dollars in ways that are effective, and belittleing, and exploiting women has proven to be so. Unfortunatly, it creates a cycle, by encouraging and enforcing these attituede media strenthens and contributes to sexism, yet as long as those attitudes are seen as funny, ok, or in some way desirable, they will be used.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: I hate men! -rant

That's why you married one? To make his life hell?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist; it was the sexist pig in me.

I do my best.

(says my inner bitch)

 

[Le Jacquelope]

You know, this is why I appreciate people like Camille Paglia. She's bisexual and a feminist, but she gets her message across with crystal clarity without running around spewing hatred of men.

Do you think you will ever make the kind of difference that she has?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

reposted from another thread:
When I posted this on the GB, a certain male member posted and "I hate women" thread, which went widely ignored.

It was ignored because it's laughable and stupid. It's like replying to Hanns Schmidt, Lancecastor, MWG, d8rape or Shrimps'n'Peas.

I felt at the time that I just needed to fly in the face of that stigma, and declare that I hate men, something that women the world over seem to fear being accused of.

Sensible people in general fear being accused of bigotry. Being sensible people, women thus fear being accused of hating men, just like most of us men would rather go hand to hand with a grizzly bear than let anyone slap a "misogynist" label on us. Because sensible people in general fear being accused of bigotry. (Just thought I'd repeat that.)

I guess in a similer way that women have tried to reclaim words like 'bitch' 'slut' and even 'cunt.'

Which is just as stupid as gangster rap artists trying to reclaim "n*".

What part of the sentence "any kind of bigotry is wrong" is so poorly worded that it's not getting through here?

 

[schminkie]

lay off sweetnpetite 4 cryin' out loud

give sweetnpetite a break boys and girls.

i'm sure we can all chat and be reasonable once her period is over.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Re: lay off sweetnpetite 4 cryin' out loud

give sweetnpetite a break boys and girls.

i'm sure we can all chat and be reasonable once her period is over.

That's not funny.

 

[schminkie]

!!!

is too

 

[WaxNWane]

As if by recognizing hundreds (maybe millions) of years of oppression,

The thread itself isn't interesting to me, but it's worth pointing out that the earliest homo sapiens sapiens skull is about 130,00 years old. At the outside, you'll see conjecture in the 300,000 year range.

Unless you mean to take up the Australopithecus women's suffrage act, I think your hyperbole is misplaced.

 

[sweetnpetite]

"It is woman's destiny to rule men. Not to serve them, flatter them, or hang on them for guidance. Nor to insult them, demean them, or stereotype them as opressors. ...It is not male hatred of women but male fear of women that is the great universal." (Vamps & Tramps, p. 79-80)

"Rape is an act of desperation, a confession of envy and exclusion. All men- even, I have written, Jesus himself- began as flecks of tissue inside a woman's womb. Every boy must stagger out of the shadow of a mother goddess, whom he never fully escapes....Women have it. Men want it. What is it? The secret of life..."(Vamps & Tramps p. 32)

Camilla has some interesting views, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't. Will I ever make the kind of difference that she has? Maybe, maybe not. Did Malcome X make as much difference as Martin Luther King? There are many different views in the world, many different ways to make a diference. Big or small we all make our impact on the world.

You think that I am overly and unfairly harsh towards men, I think she is overly and unfairly harsh towards 'mainstream feminists,' and women in general. (So far of what I have read of her.)

The "I hate men" statement certainly got a lot of attention and has created responses ranging from thoughtful to ideotic on both sides of the argument. If I truly feel that way, would you have me argue my points and pretend that I do not have that bias? To wait to be accused of hating men and then deny it?

What exactly*should* I have said?

You know, this is why I appreciate people like Camille Paglia. She's bisexual and a feminist, but she gets her message across with crystal clarity without running around spewing hatred of men.

Do you think you will ever make the kind of difference that she has?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: I hate men! -rant

The thread itself isn't interesting to me, but it's worth pointing out that the earliest homo sapiens sapiens skull is about 130,00 years old. At the outside, you'll see conjecture in the 300,000 year range.

Unless you mean to take up the Australopithecus women's suffrage act, I think your hyperbole is misplaced.

Overstatement noted. I appologize for the exageration.

 

[Sailbad the Sinner]

You sound like one of those bra burning man haters from the early '70's. When you strike the match to burn it, make sure your still wearing it.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I sound like a man hater?

That's very astute. YOur powers of deduction are overwealming.

You sound like one of those bra burning man haters from the early '70's. When you strike the match to burn it, make sure your still wearing it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

The tension between rape-fantasy/ "I've been a bad bad girl" and the irritation with men is quite endearing and, to be blunt: cute.

 

[warrior queen]

i understand where you're coming from, sweetnpetite - i think!

it's not that you hate men , rather that you hate the ongoing inequalities that still exist between the sexes.

am i right?

sadly though, the attitudes are going to be there for as long as we have differences between the sexes - be they physical, emotional, whatever.... - and so i choose to try and work within the perameters that are there, rather than try and fight against them.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: lay off sweetnpetite 4 cryin' out loud

That's not funny.

Its funny becuase I am not on my period. And I wasn't on my period when I started this thread. Its funny because it is just the type of response I can expect- not from all men, I didn't say that. But I can certainly expect to hear it many times for speaking my mind.

BTW. Heres a quote from Camilla Pagalia:


"I'm someone who is on the record as being pro-pornography--all the way through kiddie porn and snuff films."

That is not the kind of sentiment that *I* appreciate.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

"It is woman's destiny to rule men. Not to serve them, flatter them, or hang on them for guidance. Nor to insult them, demean them, or stereotype them as opressors. ...It is not male hatred of women but male fear of women that is the great universal." (Vamps & Tramps, p. 79-80)

"Rape is an act of desperation, a confession of envy and exclusion. All men- even, I have written, Jesus himself- began as flecks of tissue inside a woman's womb. Every boy must stagger out of the shadow of a mother goddess, whom he never fully escapes....Women have it. Men want it. What is it? The secret of life..."(Vamps & Tramps p. 32)

She also said:

I have intensely disliked the tendency of many feminists to want men to be remade in a kind of shy, sensitive form to become, in essence, new kinds of women, contemporary eunuchs which is less inconvenient to women. I think that this is not in the interests of the human race. We want masculine vigor, and I'm afraid that in order to get men macho again we may have to endure a certain amount of instability in sexual relations. That is, there may have to be a kind of honorable truce between enemy camps. So what would my advice be to the sexes at the end of the century? I would say to men: get it up! And to women I would say: deal with it. (Vamps & Tramps)

An enlightened feminism of the twenty-first century will embrace all sexuality and will turn away from the delusionalism, sanctimony, prudery, and male-bashing of the MacKinnon-Dworkin brigade. Women will never know who they are until they let men be men. (V&T p. 111)

She seems to contradict herself in this and many other areas.
Men would be especially wise to listen to your first quote of her, and remember not to think with their dicks. I think Camille would agree with me.

And yes before you say it I know about her saying all consentual sex (probably including underaged stuff) should be legal. There's no danger of her going very far with that kind of talk.

Camilla has some interesting views, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't. Will I ever make the kind of difference that she has? Maybe, maybe not. Did Malcome X make as much difference as Martin Luther King? There are many different views in the world, many different ways to make a diference. Big or small we all make our impact on the world.

You won't make a difference when you alienate men by saying you hate them.

You think that I am overly and unfairly harsh towards men, I think she is overly and unfairly harsh towards 'mainstream feminists,' and women in general. (So far of what I have read of her.)

Yeah it's strange that despite the quotes you've shown in a rather good attempt to show she's a man-hater, she's hated by mainstream feminists.

The "I hate men" statement certainly got a lot of attention and has created responses ranging from thoughtful to ideotic on both sides of the argument. If I truly feel that way, would you have me argue my points and pretend that I do not have that bias? To wait to be accused of hating men and then deny it?

What exactly*should* I have said?

How about "I hate bigots"? Admitting you hate men is like Rush Limbaugh admitting he's addicted to painkillers - it's a condition you need to realize you need to get rid of.
If you had said you hate bigots and raised hell about misogynists, I'd be behind you 100%.